Undiscovered Movesets / EV spreads

FlareBlitz

Relaxed nature. Loves to eat.
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
I suppose I'll post the lead Giratina-O set I use. Anyone who's been playing on the ubers ladder is probably farmiliar with it by now.

Giratina-O @ Plat. Orb
Adamant
252 ATK, 96 SPE, 160 SDEF
-Dragon Claw
-Shadow Sneak
-Will o Wisp
-Earthquake

I got really tired of Deoxys bombarding me with hazards, so I made this lead to deal with it. Deoxys will get off one hazard before it dies. This combo also deals with lead Mewtwo and Mew efficiently. Earthquake is there for Dialga leads, 2hkoing most of them (although offensive variants will ko you with Draco Meteor), and it helps my team deal with those random Heatran popping up lately. Will o Wisp is there for physical attackers that Giratina-O can't handle by herself (yes it's a girl). Since it lures in scizor like anything, crippling it also helps my Rayquaza and Darkari sweep. It also neuters Groudon (after a burn Dragon Claw is like a 5hko).
Adamant and max attack is used to guarantee that Dclaw and Shadow Sneak always finish more defensive Deoxys variants. The special defense EVs allow this to survive a surprising amount of punishment; for instance, Modest Scarf Orge's ice beam never 2hkos, and some uninvested Draco Meteors (such as from opposing physically-based mixed Giratina or from a devoted defensive Dialga) do not ohko. The speed EVs allow Giratina to outrun pretty much all of its base 90 brethern that are EV'd defensively, and also allows it to outrun defensive Jirachi, Manaphy, and other base 100s.
 
I suppose I'll post the lead Giratina-O set I use. Anyone who's been playing on the ubers ladder is probably farmiliar with it by now.

Giratina-O @ Plat. Orb
Adamant
252 ATK, 96 SPE, 160 SDEF
-Dragon Claw
-Shadow Sneak
-Will o Wisp
-Earthquake

I got really tired of Deoxys bombarding me with hazards, so I made this lead to deal with it. Deoxys will get off one hazard before it dies. This combo also deals with lead Mewtwo and Mew efficiently. Earthquake is there for Dialga leads, 2hkoing most of them (although offensive variants will ko you with Draco Meteor), and it helps my team deal with those random Heatran popping up lately. Will o Wisp is there for physical attackers that Giratina-O can't handle by herself (yes it's a girl). Since it lures in scizor like anything, crippling it also helps my Rayquaza and Darkari sweep. It also neuters Groudon (after a burn Dragon Claw is like a 5hko).
Adamant and max attack is used to guarantee that Dclaw and Shadow Sneak always finish more defensive Deoxys variants. The special defense EVs allow this to survive a surprising amount of punishment; for instance, Modest Scarf Orge's ice beam never 2hkos, and some uninvested Draco Meteors (such as from opposing physically-based mixed Giratina or from a devoted defensive Dialga) do not ohko. The speed EVs allow Giratina to outrun pretty much all of its base 90 brethern that are EV'd defensively, and also allows it to outrun defensive Jirachi, Manaphy, and other base 100s.
Lead mewtwo isn't that common at all, nor is lead mew. This lead doesn't deal with the screen lead mew well either. Most dialga leads will carry offensive spreads. Giratina-O doesn't lure in scizor in at all, Forretress lures in Giratina-O, and Forretress will have a field day setting up more entry hazards. The point of a Groudon lead is set up the sun, and phaze certain threats out, not attacking. Scarf Ogre isn't a lead, most Kyogre leads are thunder wave, and meant to set up rain and attack. Draco meteors almost always have max investment, otherwise pulse is a much better move. Most base 90s run max speed, no speed, or have a boosting move. Jirachi is rare, and basically run max speed or none. Manaphy is the same. Please do some research before posting a set.....
 

FlareBlitz

Relaxed nature. Loves to eat.
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
It's not a question of "doing the research". I posted a set that works for me, and I outlined the ways in which it works. I've played enough Ubers matches that if it was completely unfit for the tier I would have swapped it out by now. But your criticism regarding Foretress is valid. It usually does get free turns against my set. I'll think about swapping out WoW or Earthquake for HP Fire. Thanks.
 

Jibaku

Who let marco in here????
is a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Two-Time Past SPL Champion
The special defense EVs allow this to survive a surprising amount of punishment; for instance, Modest Scarf Orge's ice beam never 2hkos, and some uninvested Draco Meteors (such as from opposing physically-based mixed Giratina or from a devoted defensive Dialga) do not ohko.
Giratina-O's base special defense is 100, not 120. I ran calcs and your statement is true for Giratina-A, but not Giratina-O.
 

Ditto

/me huggles
is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
I haven't got round to testing this (college work and Christmas) but it I believe its got some potential, especially with the popularity of Toxic Spikes and Uber's general physical frailness:

Ubers Revenge Killer

Qwilfish @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk/70 Def/188 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Waterfall
- Explosion
- Payback
- Destiny Bond / Poison Jab / Taunt
Explosion and Destiny Bond on the same set... That makes absolutely no sense. You can't use both on, so why put both on. I would say Poison Jab if you really wanted it, but I always thought that Qwilfish could set up either TSpikes or Spikes.
 
Explosion and Destiny Bond on the same set... That makes absolutely no sense. You can't use both on, so why put both on. I would say Poison Jab if you really wanted it, but I always thought that Qwilfish could set up either TSpikes or Spikes.
The reason for Destiny Bond is purely for Dialga, who resists all of hs other moves. (Toxic) Spikes is a option, but its not very reliable, and you might as well attack or Explode if your just gonna let him die. Poison Jab should probably be the first move, as it does something to Kyogre and Palkia without Exploding, which I suppose is actually usefl - maybe Destiny Bond should be the option over Explosion? so it looks like:

- Waterfall
- Explosion / Destiny Bond
- Payback
- Poison Jab / Taunt

As you can deal with Dialga some other way. Actually, why even use Explosion? Between his speed and power, they'll attack, and hence get trapped by Destiny Bond...
 
The reason for Destiny Bond is purely for Dialga, who resists all of hs other moves. (Toxic) Spikes is a option, but its not very reliable, and you might as well attack or Explode if your just gonna let him die. Poison Jab should probably be the first move, as it does something to Kyogre and Palkia without Exploding, which I suppose is actually usefl - maybe Destiny Bond should be the option over Explosion? so it looks like:

- Waterfall
- Explosion / Destiny Bond
- Payback
- Poison Jab / Taunt

As you can deal with Dialga some other way. Actually, why even use Explosion? Between his speed and power, they'll attack, and hence get trapped by Destiny Bond...
Giratina completely walls you as well, with massive bulk and resistance to your main stab moves. Giratina-A can WoW, then pressure stall you to death. Giratina-O has shadow sneak priority, and will use that to it's advantage. Dialga will either commonly either stall you out of destiny bond via the BU set while taking almost nothing thanks to BU's defense boost, or outspeed via the choice scarf or even the specs set without the rain of course. This set is too reliant on rain, and even Rayquaza, a common pokemon that is seen as frail won't take much from non rainy waterfalls, and won't fear you without stealth rock. Impish Groudon can switch in, take a pair of waterfalls, live, and paralyze, thus effectively rendering you useless.
 
Lately, I've been using Skarmory in Ubers, and it's a beast. It endlessly walls Groudon and Garchomp, luls at Wobbuffet, and makes a great switch-in to Dragon-type attacks.

Skarmory@Leftovers
Impish (+Def, -SpAttk)
252 HP, 252 SpDef, 4 Def
Taunt
Spikes
Roost
Whirlwind

Come in with impunity on the likes of Groudon, Garchomp, Jirachi, Bulk Up Dialga, or basically any physical attacker that can't hit it Super Effective, Taunt if necessary (i.e. SD Garchomp), set up Spikes, and then shuffle for damage. Obviously this set has trouble with things like Kyogre, Palkia, Ho-oh, etc, but it does its job remarkably well. I was never a fan of Skarmory in OU, but I have to say it works great in Ubers.

28 Defense EV's with an Impish nature allow it to never be 2HKO'd by a +2 Jolly Garchomp. With the given EV's, this Skarmory is not 2hko'd by a +1 Latias Dragon Pulse. You're screwed against those with Thunder though. However, those without it are just Spikes fodder.
 
Lately, I've been using defensive Mewtwo, since Light Screen Mewtwo, even with a Light Screen up can't deal with certain threats such as Latios (if they switch in on a Recover), certain Kyogre, and the like. So I thought "What if Mewtwo could boost its SpDef even more than a Light Screen?" Then I thought "Amnesia? Nah, that's way too gimmicky, but I suppose I'll give it a try." I tried it. It worked. I managed to stall out a Bulk-Up Dialga, Choice Specs Kyogre, some kind of Palkia, and a Garchomp. This set is food for Darkrai and Ho-oh, but anything else has no hope of breaking through, barring a crit.

Mewtwo@Leftovers
Timid (+Spe, -Attk)
204 HP 252 Def, 32 Spe, 20 SpDef
Taunt
Will-o-wisp
Amnesia
Recover

Taunt to block set-uppers, status, and recovery, Will-o-wisp to do damage, Amnesia to boost SpDef to ridiculous levels, and Recover to keep in tip-top shape. Try it before criticizing. It looks idiotic, but looks can be deceiving.
 
Lately, I've been using defensive Mewtwo, since Light Screen Mewtwo, even with a Light Screen up can't deal with certain threats such as Latios (if they switch in on a Recover), certain Kyogre, and the like. So I thought "What if Mewtwo could boost its SpDef even more than a Light Screen?" Then I thought "Amnesia? Nah, that's way too gimmicky, but I suppose I'll give it a try." I tried it. It worked. I managed to stall out a Bulk-Up Dialga, Choice Specs Kyogre, some kind of Palkia, and a Garchomp. This set is food for Darkrai and Ho-oh, but anything else has no hope of breaking through, barring a crit.

Mewtwo@Leftovers
Timid (+Spe, -Attk)
204 HP 252 Def, 32 Spe, 20 SpDef
Taunt
Will-o-wisp
Amnesia
Recover

Taunt to block set-uppers, status, and recovery, Will-o-wisp to do damage, Amnesia to boost SpDef to ridiculous levels, and Recover to keep in tip-top shape. Try it before criticizing. It looks idiotic, but looks can be deceiving.
I can see being a pretty good set actually, but it's utter taunt fodder, like all defensive mewtwo. Which is why I never use them. Lati@s can actually be a problem for this Mewtwo, as they can switch in, abuse calm mind, and blast with a +2 draco meteor.
 
Well, after an Amnesia, it won't hurt so much, and most Calm Mind sets don't carry Draco Meteor. After all, why spend a turn to get +1 and then Draco Meteor it to a -1? In any case, they would only get 1 Calm Mind, as you can Taunt them after the first one. Plus, if you survive to first Draco Meteor, the second one does much less damage, and Pressure is always there to help out. Ubers Taunters are restricted to Deoxys-e who is almost always a lead, and Taunt Calm Mind Mewtwo, who is Scizor bait. Mew carries Taunt too, but you outspeed and Taunt it first.
 

shrang

General Kenobi
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Mew carries Taunt too, but you outspeed and Taunt it first.
Mew isn't as straight forward, as Taunting Mews are usually on lead Mews, who also carries Explosion. You'd have to either Will-O-Wisp it to weaken Explosion and risk getting Taunted, or Taunt and risk getting blown up on.
 
Mew isn't as straight forward, as Taunting Mews are usually on lead Mews, who also carries Explosion. You'd have to either Will-O-Wisp it to weaken Explosion and risk getting Taunted, or Taunt and risk getting blown up on.
Most BP Mew carry Taunt but lack Explosion while the lead Mews are easy enough to spot since you generally see them as leads. If a Mew comes in on Amnesia Mewtwo and it wasn't their lead, its probably a BP Mew trying to Taunt you and set up. If it was their lead then you switch to something that doesn't mind Taunt and is either expendable to can survive Explosion. Besides, even if you burn Mew you cripple Mewtwo in the process thanks to Synchronize.
 
Ok, I don't know if starting a discussion thread about Deoxys-D was necessary but I felt like saying that this guy needs more love.

Why Deoxys-D? It's job as spiker is probably outclassed by Forretress who has more resistances (specially dragon resistance) and can rapid spin. Also, as a special defense wall it is outclassed by Blissey and Latias (I'm gonna go ahead and say that Latias is more used than Blissey except in stall teams).

Why again? Because Deoxys-D have a better movepool, it has a reliable recovery move (compared to Forry) and can still hit back hard enough to those sweepers that like to switch in. I've been using almost the same set as the spiker set from the analysis with a little tweak:

Deoxys-D @ Leftovers
IVs: 31/19/30/30/31/30
EVs: 252 HP/80 Def/48 SAtk/128 SDef

Spikes
Recover
HP Fire 70
Ice Beam

So with some SpAtk EVs Deo can 2HKO standard Ubers CB Scizor unless rain is present (Deoxys-D is always faster). Damage calculations:
HP Fire 70 (no weather) vs Ubers CB Scizor : 44.7% - 53.2% (always 2HKO with SR)
HP Fire 70 in sunshine vs Ubers CB Scizor : 66.5% - 78.5% (Has a chance to OHKO with SR and one layer of Spikes)
CB Ubers Scizor's U-Turn vs Deoxys-D: 67.8% - 80.9% (Never a OHKO even with SR)
CB Ubers Scizor's Pursuit vs Deoxys-D: 52% - 61.2% Deo is faster so HP Fire will 2HKO first
CB Ubers Scizor's Bullet Punch vs Deoxys-D: 28.9% - 34.5%

Deoxys-D's Ice beam vs DD Rayquaza: 65.7% - 78% (small chance of OHKO with SR, if Ray lives it will die next turn to LO recoil damage)

I've ran this set for a week now and it has surprised because it's still a good sponge that doesn't have a dragon weakness (my only complain about Latias) and at least will hit Scizor back.

Now, if you don't fear Scizor, there is some other moveset I've seen but haven't tried yet:

T-wave
Spikes
Recover
Ice Beam

T-wave the switch and keep spiking, this usually works because nobody is switching a Ground pokemon against a wall with Ice beam. It will catch some fast sweepers off guard, like Mewtwo or Latios that love to set up on Deo.

Again, I'm not saying Deoxys-D is the best wall or anything, just try it out sometime and see if it fits in one of your teams. Just remember it is still set up fodder for some pokemon (BU Dialga, CM Kyogre, CM Mewtwo for example).
 
Well, the above set somewhat inspired me to create this new Deoxys-e set.

Deoxys-e@Leftovers
Calm (+SpDef, -Attk)
252 HP 128 SpDef 128 Def
Taunt
Toxic
Cosmic Power
Recover

Obviously the EV's need a bit of tweaking, but with some Magnezone support, this thing is deceptively err... stallful. Once the opponent's steel types have been drawn out (by spamming strong Dragon type moves) and manhandled by Magnzone, Deoxys-e can set up on a lot of things. Even with absolutely no speed investment, it still outspeeds Timid 252 Spe Mewtwo, the fastest Taunter that's not a lead. Leading Deoxys-e are suicide leads, so they should be of little problem, and after one Cosmic Power, you can set up on nearly everything. It's speed allows it to Cosmic Power before the opponent attacks, and even a Timid Darkrai's Dark Pulse cannot 2HKO provided you Cosmic Power once before first attack and again before the second attack due to Leftovers. You Cosmic Power on the switch to Darkrai, Taunt it, then Cosmic Power again, Recover when necessary, and spam Cosmic Power until you get to +6. Then, you pretty much can't die until you get critted. This is probably the only way to take it out once it gets to +6, as no faster Taunters exist bar suicide leads, and at +6 you are ridiculously defensive.
 
the thing is with that set is if it gets critted it is pretty much dead. not to mention you also need rapid spin support as if your opponent set up toxic spikes its pretty much useless. Than and anything with trick scarf gets it too.

It just seems like it needs to much going for it in order for it to work
 

shrang

General Kenobi
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Well, the above set somewhat inspired me to create this new Deoxys-e set.

Deoxys-e@Leftovers
Calm (+SpDef, -Attk)
252 HP 128 SpDef 128 Def
Taunt
Toxic
Cosmic Power
Recover

Obviously the EV's need a bit of tweaking, but with some Magnezone support, this thing is deceptively err... stallful. Once the opponent's steel types have been drawn out (by spamming strong Dragon type moves) and manhandled by Magnzone, Deoxys-e can set up on a lot of things. Even with absolutely no speed investment, it still outspeeds Timid 252 Spe Mewtwo, the fastest Taunter that's not a lead. Leading Deoxys-e are suicide leads, so they should be of little problem, and after one Cosmic Power, you can set up on nearly everything. It's speed allows it to Cosmic Power before the opponent attacks, and even a Timid Darkrai's Dark Pulse cannot 2HKO provided you Cosmic Power once before first attack and again before the second attack due to Leftovers. You Cosmic Power on the switch to Darkrai, Taunt it, then Cosmic Power again, Recover when necessary, and spam Cosmic Power until you get to +6. Then, you pretty much can't die until you get critted. This is probably the only way to take it out once it gets to +6, as no faster Taunters exist bar suicide leads, and at +6 you are ridiculously defensive.
I think packing Substitute on that Deoxys-S is better, as you can SubRecover stall out stuff like Spacial Rend while the Toxic damage builds up. It also helps against crits.
 
But the its sub-par defenses are going to have to take a hit on the turns you Recover, and most Uber attackers can 2hko if Deoxys-e doesn't grab a few Cosmic Powers. Giving up Taunt is possible, but then it becomes Taunt fodder itself. Maybe if you Pursuit Mewtwo?

@ultimifier if they are getting up Toxic Spikes and you can't do anything about it, switch Deoxys-e in when they get 1 layer up, so it can't get badly poisoned. Then, they'll likely Rapid Spin, expecting entry hazards, but then you can switch to Magnezone, who will just eat Forretress.
 

Jibaku

Who let marco in here????
is a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Two-Time Past SPL Champion
Taunt is too useful to pass up IMO. The ability to stop other things from stating up (CM/Rest/Talk Kyogre(who also can heal Toxic!)), as well as not having to play mindgames against Blissey (since Blissey breaks its sub with toss and DX-S can't sub forever) are invaluable.
 
Love your use of nested parentheses, Jibaku, (I think it's awesome (really)). I definitely think it's a pretty good set, but almost demands either expert prediction to remove their steels or a Magnezone, who isn't that bad in Ubers (I'm looking at you, Forretress). Also, Bulk Up Palkia is probably one of the best Cro-Ogre counters, and it works great on my current team. I encourage people to try it out.

As for this set, I haven't used it much personally, but I see some potential.

Steelix@leftovers
Careful (+SpDef, -SpAttk)
228 HP 28 Spe 252 SpDef
Gyro Ball/Crunch/Earthquake
Gyro Ball/Crunch/Earthquake
Stealth Rock
Toxic/Roar

Take your pick of the two attacking moves, give it Stealth Rock, and something to use against things it can't do much damage to. 28 Speed Ev's to outspeed Wobbuffet, so you can Stealth Rock or Toxic before it Encores. Maybe Explosion could fit somewhere, but it seems like a waste, give Steelix's Sturdiness (no pun intended). Jibaku's Groudon cannot even manage a 3hko on this set with Earthquake, assuming no entry hazards. Timid Scarf Palkia does 23.3%-27.6% with Spacial Rend, letting Steelix some in again and again. It's total Forretress bait though, which is too bad, as it is statistically superior to Forretress where it counts (same HP, better defenses) but with Fire Fang, you can go for a 2hko, which is practically guaranteed with Stealth Rock. Forretress only survives 2 hits with Stealth Rock if you roll absolute minimum damage one of the times and minimum or next-to minimum the other time. For those who really care about EV tweaking, 16 Attk EV's remedies this problem.
 
Love your use of nested parentheses, Jibaku, (I think it's awesome (really)). I definitely think it's a pretty good set, but almost demands either expert prediction to remove their steels or a Magnezone, who isn't that bad in Ubers (I'm looking at you, Forretress). Also, Bulk Up Palkia is probably one of the best Cro-Ogre counters, and it works great on my current team. I encourage people to try it out.

As for this set, I haven't used it much personally, but I see some potential.

Steelix@leftovers
Careful (+SpDef, -SpAttk)
228 HP 28 Spe 252 SpDef
Gyro Ball/Crunch/Earthquake
Gyro Ball/Crunch/Earthquake
Stealth Rock
Toxic/Roar

Take your pick of the two attacking moves, give it Stealth Rock, and something to use against things it can't do much damage to. 28 Speed Ev's to outspeed Wobbuffet, so you can Stealth Rock or Toxic before it Encores. Maybe Explosion could fit somewhere, but it seems like a waste, give Steelix's Sturdiness (no pun intended). Jibaku's Groudon cannot even manage a 3hko on this set with Earthquake, assuming no entry hazards. Timid Scarf Palkia does 23.3%-27.6% with Spacial Rend, letting Steelix some in again and again. It's total Forretress bait though, which is too bad, as it is statistically superior to Forretress where it counts (same HP, better defenses) but with Fire Fang, you can go for a 2hko, which is practically guaranteed with Stealth Rock. Forretress only survives 2 hits with Stealth Rock if you roll absolute minimum damage one of the times and minimum or next-to minimum the other time. For those who really care about EV tweaking, 16 Attk EV's remedies this problem.


This set looks effective. However I have a big question. Why will you use over Registeel? Sure, Steelix has quite a bit more defense and a little bit more attack. But Registeel has so much better SpD, and I can argue Registeel IcePunch handles more pokemon, and it can still set up stealth rock or toxic. It can even thunderwave, which Steelix cannot. The only advantage I see is roar, and the ground typing which is debatable since that brings you additional weakness to water and makes you neutral to ice and grass attack instead of resist them. In the end, I think steelix itself maybe effective in uber, but it is quite outclassed by Registeel.
 
@ultimifier if they are getting up Toxic Spikes and you can't do anything about it, switch Deoxys-e in when they get 1 layer up, so it can't get badly poisoned. Then, they'll likely Rapid Spin, expecting entry hazards, but then you can switch to Magnezone, who will just eat Forretress.
Here's my take. Yes, the thing you just outliend above WOULD work, but only once. Once you do that your opponent will catch on and then the next game will come down to a prediction war (coin flip). This what sucks about using non-standard/gimicky sets, your opponent will remember them and take advantage of them in future games
 
Ok, here's for an interesting set.

Palkia@Leftovers
Adamant (+Attk, -SpAttk)
252 HP 4 Spe 252 SpDef
Bulk Up
Outrage
Rest
Sleep Talk

While this set seems extremely odd, it accomplishes many useful things (I bet there's a better EV spread). It takes 4 hits from a full health Specs Kyogre to ko, so even if it does die by that, Water Spout is out of PP. But of course, you will have Rested long before that. With Adamant and Outrage, most Kyogre are 2hko'd, and those bulky ones that aren't are usually Cro-Ogre, which you can laugh at as you Bulk Up and hit them with a boosted Outrage for the KO. In a pinch, this set also takes a Dragon Pulse from a Lati@s and survives, although barely. Then, Outrage makes short work of them. Basically, this set is probably the best Kyogre counter I can think of (Lati@s and Palkia usually fear Thunder Wave, but not this one). I think this would work well on a Stall team, but I don't play stall, so I'm hoping someone can try this set out. It also works great as a sleep/status absorber, which helps take down Darkrai.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top