Uber Speed Tiers

[eric the espeon]

The Ubers Speed Tiers are apparently more up to date than some, but there is still plenty of room for improvement. New and effective sets are never stop being found, and others become less popular and useful due to metagame changes.

Please post Pokemon and sets that you think should be added or removed, preferably with a sentence or so of reasoning explaining why the Pokemon is threatening and common enough and should be added (a decent guide is if it gets an Ubers analysis, it can probably go in) , or is not useful/used and should be removed. I or another C&C mod will edit the list of sets to add/remove with suggestions based on support and experience, and once they have been left for comment for a fair amount of time they will be edited into the on site speed tiers.

Most recent Uber usage stats are here, detailed stats are here.

Posts expressing support for/disagreement with other people's posts are also encouraged.

Format:
Speed Stat / Pokemon / Base Speed / Nature / Boost / Ev Investment

Suggested Additions:


Suggested Removals:

changed

Added:
224 / Ho-Oh, Dialga / 90 / Neutral / +0 / 32
290 / Giratina-O, Dialga / 90 / Boosting / +0 / 192
346 / Infernape / 108 / Boosting / +0 / 252
253 / Heatran / 77 / Boosting / +0 / 160
250 / Kingdra / 85 / Neutral / +0 / 176
206 / Cresselia / 85 / Neutral / +0 / 0
492 / Salamence / 100 / +Speed / +1 / 252
328 / Salamence / 100 / +Speed / +0 / 252
352 / Mewtwo / 130 / Boosting / 96
334 / Mewtwo / 130 / Boosting / 32
250 / Groudon / 90 / Neutral / 136
179 / Shedinja / 40 / Neutral / +0 / 252
114 / Tyranitar / 61 / -Speed; 0 IV / none / 0
121 / Scizor / 65 / -Speed; 0 IV / none / 0
130 / Metagross / 70 / -Speed; 0 IV / none / 0
143 / Heatran / 77 / -Speed; 0 IV / none / 0
157 / Cresselia, Heracross / 85 / -Speed; 0 IV / none / 0
166 / Dialga, Giratina-O, Groudon, Ho-Oh, Kyogre, Lucario / 90 / -Speed; 0 IV / none / 0
175 / Rayquaza, Uxie / 95 / -Speed; 0 IV / none / 0
184 / Jirachi, Mew, Palkia / 100 / -Speed; 0 IV / none / 0

Removed:
303 / Garchomp / 102 / Neutral / +0 / 252
349 / Weavile, Darkrai
418 / Dialga, Groudon, Ho-Oh, Kyogre
379 / Heatran
331 / Tyranitar
330 / Lugia
319 / Latias, Latios, Gengar, Lugia
299 / Manaphy, Mew, Palkia, Jirachi
279 / Dialga, Giratina, Giratina-O, Groudon, Ho-Oh, Kyogre
253 / Heatran
116 / Shedinja / 40 / Neutral / +0 / None
448 / Palkia, Jirachi
379 / Heatran
359 / Mewtwo


Fixed:
394 / Metagross (with Choice Scarf, Metagross reaches a maximum of 393 speed)
334 / Latias Lugia / 176 EVs (this is a false number, unless I made a stupid mistake on shoddy, Latias and Lugia hit this speed with 192 EVs, so it needs to be changed)
196 / Mamoswine / 50 (Mamo has 80 Speed)

 

[Fireburn]

Add:

224 / Ho-Oh, Dialga / 90 / Neutral / +0 / 32
290 / Giratina-O, Dialga / 90 / Boosting / +0 / 192
346 / Infernape / 108 / Boosting / +0 / 252
253 / Heatran / 77 / Boosting / +0 / 160
250 / Kingdra / 85 / Neutral / +0 / 176
206 / Cresselia / 85 / Neutral / +0 / 0 (At macle's request)

EDIT-

Remove:

303 / Garchomp / 102 / Neutral / +0 / 252
454 / Garchomp / 102 / Neutral / +1 / 252

 

[eric the espeon]

All the changes in this thread so far have been made. Big thanks to mingot for setting up sortability in the lists so they don't need huge amounts of messing about when you add Pokemon.

 

[Delta 2777]

Remove:
116 / Shedinja / 40 / Neutral / +0 / None

(Why would you run 0 Spe EVs on a Shedninja?)

Also I notcied that:
196 / Shedinja / 40 / Boosting / +0 / 252

^^It says boosting nature, however Shedinja only reaches 196 Spe with a neutral nature.

 

[firecape]

First off, for boosts, some of them say "none" and some say "+0", I think it should remain uniform throughout.

Remove: (Some of these may be controversial)

253 / Heatran (160 EVs with a boosting nature, you can accomplish more the same with 252 EVs and a neutral nature)

279 / Dialga, Giratina, Giratina-O, Groudon, Ho-Oh, Kyogre (Why would you run max Speed without a +Spe Nature on these mons? Groudon could be an exception, Lucario is an exception)

299 / Manaphy, Mew, Palkia, Jirachi (same as previous)

319 / Latias, Latios, Gengar, Lugia (same as previous)

330 / Lugia (just a random speed number....)

331 / Tyranitar (enough Speed to outspeed a Speed stat Lugia never runs)

334 / Latias Lugia / 176 EVs (this is a false number, unless I made a stupid mistake on shoddy, Latias and Lugia hit this speed with 192 EVs, so it needs to be changed)

349 / Weavile, Darkrai (why would they ever run a neutral nature? They get outsped by Latias and friends then)

379 / Heatran (neutral nature allows it to get outsped by Darkrai)

394 / Metagross (with Choice Scarf, Metagross reaches a maximum of 393 speed)

418 / Dialga, Groudon, Ho-Oh, Kyogre (why would you run a neutral nature with a Choice Scarf on these mons?) edit

Add:

352 / Mewtwo / 130 / Boosting / 96 It's the specially defensive set, and it allows it to outpace Latias.

334 / Mewtwo / 130 / Boosting / 32 It's the physically desnive set, and it outspeeds Garchomp.

250 / Groudon / 90 / Neutral / 136 It's the Rock Polish set before a boost

 

[Ice-eyes]

There are a whole load of standard sets for base 90s that run different numbers of speed EVs. Could those be put on to the list (the EVs for the common Groudon/Kyogre/Dialga etc sets)?

 

[firecape]

For Groudon, 8 Speed is just an attempt to outspeed 4 Speed base 90s I'm pretty sure, and 136 with a +2 boost (for Rock Polish) is up there, but I edited in what it would have without a Rock Polish yet, thanks. For Kyogre, the versatile Ogre set is currently being rewritten by Theorymon, and the Mono-attackers speed serves to outspeed +Spe max Speed Ttar- which is almost never seen outside of a lead position (besides scarf, which outspeeds reguardless). Giratina-Os common Speeds are listed, and once again, 8 Speed simply serves to outspeed 4 Speed. Giratina really never runs anything but max or none, so thats irrelevant. Finally, all of Dialga and Ho-Ohs commonly used Speed stats are up there.

 

[Garganator]

I can't find anywhere here Salamence, so it would be nice to add it.

Add:

492 / Salamence / 100 / +Speed / +1 / 252
328 / Salamence / 100 / +Speed / +0 / 252

 

[eric the espeon]

Added all the newer suggestions to the OP, adding ones unlikely to have any objections to site (fixes to incorrect speeds, removing clearly unused sets, adding 'mence).

Could someone come up with a set of TR spreads which seem to be largely missing currently?

 

[firecape]

Ok, the sentiment on IRC was base 100 Spe was the limit for TR Pokemon, and I tried to include as many as possible that can be used in Ubers, if you see I forget any, just tell me and I'll put them in.

58 / Snorlax / 30 / -Speed; 0 IV / none (in this category, some of them still say +0 and some say none) / 0

114 / Tyranitar / 61 / -Speed; 0 IV / none / 0

121 / Scizor / 65 / -Speed; 0 IV / none / 0

130 / Metagross / 70 / -Speed; 0 IV / none / 0

143 / Heatran / 77 / -Speed; 0 IV / none / 0

157 / Cresselia, Heracross / 85 / -Speed; 0 IV / none / 0

166 / Dialga, Giratina-O, Groudon, Ho-Oh, Kyogre, Lucario / 90 / -Speed; 0 IV / none / 0

175 / Rayquaza, Uxie / 95 / -Speed; 0 IV / none / 0

184 / Jirachi, Mew, Palkia / 100 / -Speed; 0 IV / none / 0

edit:
Also, since I saw those 2 earlier mistake, I'm going to go through all the Speeds and make sure there aren't any more. (edit: only one found)

475 / Primeape / 95 / +Speed / +1 / 252 (just add the name next to Rayquaza, Primeape isn't used much, but it's still used none the less)

remove:

448 / Palkia, Jirachi (why would you use a neutral nature with a Choice Scarf with these pokes?)

379 / Heatran (running a neutral nature wiith Scarf gets you outsped by Darkrai...)

359 / Mewtwo (you get outsped by Darkrai...)

196 / Mamoswine / 50 (Mamo has 80 Speed)

 

[supermarth64]

There is one reason to use Modest Kyogre: Specs. Some people just use it and abuse it for the sheer power of it, but it is outclassed by Timid. However, Kyogre natures are pretty much split between Timid and Modest, so keep Modest.

 

[Tase]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I found a (minor) error in the speed tiers:

330 / Lugia / 110 / +Speed / None / 172

Shouldn't it be 328?

110 Base speed = 256 on a neutral nature, +43 added points from EVs = 299, +29 from the positive nature = 328

The Smogon damage calc agrees with me as well.

Edit: Sorry if this is in the wrong place, I wasn't sure where else to post this.

 

[firecape]

You are correct, but hopefully, that Speed will be removed, since Lugia never runs it.

 

[eric the espeon]

firecape bugged me into doing this, fireburn checked it over. All changes made.

 

[SoulWind]

Hi, i was seeing this guide and i saw two mistakes:

85 / Forretress / 40 / -Speed; 0 IV / None /0 (It should 76, no 85 speed stat).

235 / Mew / 100 / Neutral / None / 68 (It should 253, no 235 speed stat).