VGC TR Ogre/Dark Spam (VGC)

This team started as a TR Double-Primal team and evolved to include dark spam after I replaced PDon with Yveltal. Having Yvel-Ogre as the restricted mons and Slowking as the TR setter makes this team seem somewhat gimmicky, and perhaps it is, but please take that with a grain of salt. So far it has served me about as well as, if not better than, my dual primal team. This one has been much more fun to play with though and I would like to see if I can improve on it, or if it is in fact too gimmicky and has a low ceiling.




kyriegre (Kyogre-Primal) @ Blue Orb
Ability: Primordial Sea
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 60 Def / 196 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Scald
- Protect
- Ice Beam
- Water Spout

This is the mon I originally built around. It has decent defensive bulk and can take common hits from Kang, Ray, and PDon, but maintains huge SpA power. Because of the TR setup I went with water spout, and scald over origin pulse a guaranteed STAB move in rain, and to avoid wide-guard users. Due to lack of investment in SpD, it struggles in mirror matches if the opponent has thunder, and those opposing Ogres pose a significant threat to my team.


Slowking @ Lum Berry
Ability: Oblivious
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 20 SpA / 236 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Scald
- Protect
- Flamethrower

This slot was originally Bronzong, but I wanted to try Slowking because I hate wasting an item slot on mental herb. Oblivious + lum berry helps me worry less about most potentially annoying support mons (especially smeargle), and Slowking over Slowbro for the SpD to help against electric users. Slowking doesn't have to worry about thundurus's taunt (or even thunderbolt too much if I get TR up), and Maw and Salamence provide intimidate support for physical threats, making Slowking surprisingly persistent in many games and not simply a TR setter who just sits around afterwords (which Bronzong did since I no longer had PDon to skill swap). Scald makes my opponent worry about bringing in or leading with Pdons if I have Ogre in the back, and scald also helps with Kang and the genies, and burns are always nice. I went with flamethrower to help with ferrothorn and mawile, though ferrothorn still threatens in trick room.

Ygrett (Yveltal) @ Black Glasses
Ability: Dark Aura
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 4 Atk / 244 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Snarl
- Dark Pulse
- Protect

This slot was originally Pdon, but I wanted to focus more on setting up Ogre and not have to worry about drought coming up from my end. Yveltal fills a much-needed spot on my team in dealing good neutral damage to threats like primals, grass types, and dragons. I went with sucker punch and hasty over foul play and timid for effectiveness in and out of TR, and Maw's intimidate helps compensate for the lack of defense. Having two strong sucker-punchers in Yvel and Maw helps close many late-game scenarios.



Weavile @ Focus Sash
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Fake Out
- Icicle Crash
- Feint

This team needed consistent fake-out support so I went with Weavile for its speed. It was a lucky coincidence it also happens to have dark typing. I almost always lead with Weavile plus either Slowking or Yveltal. He becomes a sitting duck with TR up, at which point I either sack him or switch to Ogre or Maw, and while I thought someone like Smeargle might serve better for a TR setup supporter, the team needed more physical offense.


Salamence-Mega @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Hyper Voice
- Protect
- Tailwind

I rarely bring Mence, especially since my team depends on my other mega so much. I added it mainly for help against Ferrothorn and opposing Mawiles, and for neutral hyper voice damage on most mons. Really though, it doesn't do that great against those two^ especially when they are often paired with POgre, and Yveltal already fills the spot of neutral special attacker. I partly justified adding Mence to add an alternate source of speed control.


Mawile-Mega @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Play Rough
- Iron Head
- Protect

Maw serves a lot of functions for this team and has to carry a lot of weight. Maw is my main answer for Xerneas, and also helps against Kang and dragons. Sucker-punch with (or without) Yveltal makes her dangerous even without TR, especially in the late-game. I often choose to bring her over one of my restricted mons because she provides a much needed physical attacker on this team and works well whether I decide to go for a dark-spam or TR-Ogre setup.
 
hi damaGrande, i enjoy the yveltal + kyogre archetype and i'm glad to see a great representation of it here.

granted, there are a few things that i see could be altered to make the team more solid overall and better against most common archetypes. here they are.

OVERALL_CHANGES

while slowking is fun and all, i find cresselia to overall be a better trick room setter and i feel it fits here better than slowking would.


Cresselia @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 244 HP / 108 Def / 156 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Trick Room
- Ice Beam
- Helping Hand
- Skill Swap

this set comes straight from the online analysis so there isn't much for me to explain here. you can obviously use a mental herb with the alternate ev spread if you choose to do so. it gives you some assurance against thundurus and smeargle when setting up trick room which is nice.

a primal kyogre check on this team is needed, and there are a couple of choices you can go with.


Ferrothorn @ Expert Belt
Ability: Iron Barbs
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Atk / 60 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Power Whip
- Gyro Ball
- Leech Seed
- Protect

OR


Amoonguss @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
Level: 50
EVs: 188 HP / 164 Def / 156 SpD
Sassy Nature
- After You
- Grass Knot / Clear Smog
- Rage Powder
- Spore

both of these pokemon help versus primal kyogre and xerneas which is nice. ferrothorn is more offensive and it adds a steel-typing to the team. ferrothorn is more splashable and pairs quite nicely with primal kyogre, making your match up versus gravity and rayogre more favorable for you. amoonguss on the other hand, is more suited to take on kangaskhan, and checks trick room quite nicely with after you. amoonguss is also one to be coming in and out throughout the entire match, since it has regenerator and the fact that it checks quite a few things. both are fine options and they both work in place of mega salamence.

ferrothorn's set and spread is quite standard and it doesn't need too much more explaining. you can try 68 spdef with leftovers to better check both primal kyogre and xerneas in the same match if you feel the need to do so.

amoonguss's spread is just one that capitalizes on its defensive capabilities. 188 hp hits a regenerator number, to the point where you'll get as much hp as possible from it. the defense evs allow it to take adamant mega kangaskhan's double edge and the rest is thrown into spdef to better to on primal kyogre and xerneas. if you believe that adamant kangaskhan isn't an issue, run a spread of 188 hp / 92 def / 228 spdef, with the same nature. the moves are fairly standard; after you checks trick room quite well; using trick room to make the opponent move right after the user which allows for fast primal kyogre and mawile which is a threatening sight. grass knot hits primal kyogre for respectable damage, and clear smog allows it to get rid of xerneas' geomancy boosts. rage powder and spore are quite standard for amoonguss; rage powder allows for redirection support which greatly helps yveltal and spore can incapacitate an opposing pokemon which is always useful.

SET_CHANGES



Kyogre-Primal @ Blue Orb
Ability: Primordial Sea
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 180 Def / 76 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Scald
- Protect
- Ice Beam
- Water Spout

this is a more refined quiet kyogre spread which allows it to live raichu's zap plate boosted volt tackle as well as live choice banded rayquaza's dragon ascent most of the time. this benefits you as electric-types give you some trouble and having some back up against them is nice.


Yveltal @ Black Glasses / Weakness Policy
Ability: Dark Aura
Level: 50
EVs: 244 HP / 28 Def / 4 SpA / 36 SpD / 196 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Snarl
- Dark Pulse
- Protect

this is a better yveltal spread that lives attacks such as zap plate raichu's volt tackle, thundurus's thunderbolt, primal kyogre's water spout, and many more things that are beneficial to the team. weakness policy can be used over black glasses, and it makes yveltal very formidable to play against once it's got the boosts. this new spread runs timid, which means you could try foul play > one of your offensive moves, but sucker punch is still quite powerful even with the nidering nature. it's all up to you, though, that's just a suggestion from my part.

that's about it! kudos to you on your teambuilding skills, and i hope this newly revised team is more successful.

Overview:

to

to
OR

Spread changes on
and


Kyogre-Primal @ Blue Orb
Ability: Primordial Sea
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 180 Def / 76 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Scald
- Protect
- Ice Beam
- Water Spout

Cresselia @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 244 HP / 108 Def / 156 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Trick Room
- Ice Beam
- Helping Hand
- Skill Swap

Yveltal @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Dark Aura
Level: 50
EVs: 244 HP / 28 Def / 4 SpA / 36 SpD / 196 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Snarl
- Dark Pulse
- Protect

Weavile @ Focus Sash
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Fake Out
- Icicle Crash
- Feint

Ferrothorn @ Expert Belt
Ability: Iron Barbs
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Atk / 60 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Power Whip
- Gyro Ball
- Leech Seed
- Protect

Amoonguss @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
Level: 50
EVs: 188 HP / 164 Def / 156 SpD
Sassy Nature
- After You
- Grass Knot / Clear Smog
- Rage Powder
- Spore

Mawile-Mega @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Play Rough
- Iron Head
- Protect

(note: you can choose to run brave mawile if you want to follow the more trick room style of the team)
 
Awesome, very succinct suggestions. I think I'll go for Ferro over Amoon, and I guess you explained all the other changes I should make specifically. Thanks for the EV advice too, I was unsure on how to do them most efficiently. Thanks!
 
Yveltal @ Black Glasses / Weakness Policy
Ability: Dark Aura
Level: 50
EVs: 244 HP / 28 Def / 4 SpA / 36 SpD / 196 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Snarl
- Dark Pulse
- Protect

this is a better yveltal spread that lives attacks such as zap plate raichu's volt tackle, thundurus's thunderbolt, primal kyogre's water spout, and many more things that are beneficial to the team. weakness policy can be used over black glasses, and it makes yveltal very formidable to play against once it's got the boosts. this new spread runs timid, which means you could try foul play > one of your offensive moves, but sucker punch is still quite powerful even with the nidering nature. it's all up to you, though, that's just a suggestion from my part.
Hey man, solid rate :)
Just a couple things regarding this yveltal spread:
- will only survive the listed physical attacks if timid/jolly
- I would definitely recommend black glasses over weakness policy for solid damage output, although you can OHKO mega rayquaza with life orb foul play
- you can invest a little more into atk/spe if you go for surviving water spouts from timid kyogre:

Yveltal @ Black Glasses / Life Orb
Ability: Dark Aura
EVs: 132 HP / 52 Atk / 92 Def / 4 SpD / 228 Spe
// 244 HP / 36 SpD / 228 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Foul Play
- Sucker Punch
- Snarl -> for calcs explained below
- Protect (if pairing usually with thundurus)/ Tailwind (if pairing with fake out (raichu/weavile/kangaskhan)

- Outspeeds base 95s
- Survives timid 252 SpA kyogre water spout (the second set applies this calc to modest kyogres, but can't quite reach the benchmarks for raichu/mawile etc)
- Survives timid kyogre's origin pulse when single target
- -1 timid kyogre's origin pulse is a 3HKO, so it can survive this + any other 3HKO move mentioned
- Survives zap plate raichu's volt tackle
- Survives mawile's play rough
- Groudon's rock slide is a 3HKO
- 252+ groudon's eruption does 97%
- Single target -1 adamant groudon's precipice blades (under gravity) is a 3HKO lol
- This OHKOs +2 (swagger/SD) atk groudon with black glasses foul play
- Survives jolly CB rayquaza's dragon ascent 15/16 times
- Our 156 Atk variant of jolly CB landorus-t's rock slide is a 3HKO, 252 Atk variants have a ~30% chance to 2HKO
- Survives thunder from 252 SpA thundurus, life orb thunderbolt OHKOs ~44% of the time
- Jolly LO Talonflame's brave bird / flare blitz is a 3HKO
- Survives adamant CB flare blitz in sun (~95%)
- Fake out+double edge (i.e if you run TW) from 172 Atk kangaskhan variants does about 99%, for 252 Atk variants it does up to 105% (~25% to OHKO)
- Rock Slide+Fire Punch together from jolly groudon also does around 105%
- -1 Xerneas' dazzling gleam is a 3HKO
 
Nice, and I see from your team you're currently running an Yveltal so this advice is much appreciated! I'll go with tailwind since I run Weavile and I do need speed control for when I don't go with Cres.

One question: you said I could invest more in speed/attack if I only invested to survive timid Kyogre water spout, so are the 52 EVs for the first spread leftovers or does 52 reach some benchmark with sucker punch?

edit: I see, your first spread is designed for more speed and attack than GAG's, and second set is the same as his but sacrifices some physical benchmarks for extra speed. Awesome choices! I think I'll go for the higher speed but not for the extra attack since I'll have foul play
 
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Nice, and I see from your team you're currently running an Yveltal so this advice is much appreciated! I'll go with tailwind since I run Weavile and I do need speed control for when I don't go with Cres.

One question: you said I could invest more in speed/attack if I only invested to survive timid Kyogre water spout, so are the 52 EVs for the first spread leftovers or does 52 reach some benchmark with sucker punch?

edit: I see, your first spread is designed for more speed and attack than GAG's, and second set is the same as his but sacrifices some physical benchmarks for extra speed. Awesome choices! I think I'll go for the higher speed but not for the extra attack since I'll have foul play
You got it :) (there are no benchmarks for sucker punch btw)
Run whatever spread you like, its your choice man
Tailwind is a great choice for yveltal esp. when you have fake out support (helps vs kang smeargle leads etc). Also if you're running mawile with tailwind yveltal, use 108 speed EVs (adamant) as this allows it to hit a stat of 84 speed - underspeeding min speed primals by one point (outspeed in TR), and it outspeeds max speed kang in tailwind which is pretty cool :)
I use a spread of 228/60/52/x/60/108 for my current mawile set, and the defensive benchmarks are explained on one of my rmts 'winter sun' if you can find it, the spread is at the bottom :)
The calcs just round out its matchup vs common attacks

Here's the def benchmarks
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/winter-sun-300th-post-rmt.3568913/#post-6790915
 
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Almost forgot, here's another cool yveltal spread:

Yveltal @ Life Orb
Ability: Dark Aura
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 20 Def / 4 SpD / 228 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Foul Play
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch
- Protect / Tailwind

This spread optimizes your match up versus opposing Mega Rayquaza, allowing Yveltal to survive a Dragon Ascent from it and outspeed base 95s (it reaches 162 speed), including max speed Rayquaza (base form - during turn one) and Kyurem-White (i.e with rock tomb groudon or icy wind support etc for scarf sets)

  • 252 Atk Life Orb Dark Aura Yveltal Foul Play vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Rayquaza: 181-214 (100 - 118.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
  • 252 Atk Life Orb Mega Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 4 HP / 20 Def Yveltal: 173-204 (85.6 - 100.9%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
Sorry about the double post, wanted you to get the notification for this :/
 
You got it :) (there are no benchmarks for sucker punch btw)
Run whatever spread you like, its your choice man
Tailwind is a great choice for yveltal esp. when you have fake out support (helps vs kang smeargle leads etc). Also if you're running mawile with tailwind yveltal, use 108 speed EVs (adamant) as this allows it to hit a stat of 84 speed - underspeeding min speed primals by one point (outspeed in TR), and it outspeeds max speed kang in tailwind which is pretty cool :)
I use a spread of 228/60/52/x/60/108 for my current mawile set, and the defensive benchmarks are explained on one of my rmts 'winter sun' if you can find it, the spread is at the bottom :)
The calcs just round out its matchup vs common attacks

Here's the def benchmarks
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/winter-sun-300th-post-rmt.3568913/#post-6790915

That's the coolest Maw set I've seen so far, I love it. I'm trying it out now, and with a bulkier Maw I also felt the need for Ferro less and have been trying GAG's Amoongus instead, which definitely adds more versatility to my team
 
Almost forgot, here's another cool yveltal spread:

Yveltal @ Life Orb
Ability: Dark Aura
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 20 Def / 4 SpD / 228 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Foul Play
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch
- Protect / Tailwind

This spread optimizes your match up versus opposing Mega Rayquaza, allowing Yveltal to survive a Dragon Ascent from it and outspeed base 95s (it reaches 162 speed), including max speed Rayquaza (base form - during turn one) and Kyurem-White (i.e with rock tomb groudon or icy wind support etc for scarf sets)

  • 252 Atk Life Orb Dark Aura Yveltal Foul Play vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Rayquaza: 181-214 (100 - 118.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
  • 252 Atk Life Orb Mega Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 4 HP / 20 Def Yveltal: 173-204 (85.6 - 100.9%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
Sorry about the double post, wanted you to get the notification for this :/
Yeah I appreciate the extra post because I might not have noticed. This is a cool spread, but I like your bulky one better, mainly because I don't think this team needs extra help for Ray since Yveltal already handles him decently, but especially with Weavile and Maw (not to mention Cres and Ogre both having ice moves as well)
 
That's the coolest Maw set I've seen so far, I love it. I'm trying it out now, and with a bulkier Maw I also felt the need for Ferro less and have been trying GAG's Amoongus instead, which definitely adds more versatility to my team
Glad you like the spread, and yeah amoonguss sounds pretty cool, gives you a better matchup vs opposing yveltal kyogre teams (w/o oblivion wing) if you lead like salamence/kyogre amoonguss.
Yeah I appreciate the extra post because I might not have noticed. This is a cool spread, but I like your bulky one better, mainly because I don't think this team needs extra help for Ray since Yveltal already handles him decently, but especially with Weavile and Maw (not to mention Cres and Ogre both having ice moves as well)
That's totally cool, I would suggest trying out all variations before making a decision though (I started with bulkier spreads and moved onto more offensive variants after testing). I just felt yveltal needed a bit more offensive presence, although it can hit some awesome benchmarks
 
Glad you like the spread, and yeah amoonguss sounds pretty cool, gives you a better matchup vs opposing yveltal kyogre teams (w/o oblivion wing) if you lead like salamence/kyogre amoonguss.

That's totally cool, I would suggest trying out all variations before making a decision though (I started with bulkier spreads and moved onto more offensive variants after testing). I just felt yveltal needed a bit more offensive presence, although it can hit some awesome benchmarks
Yeah I've been trying out a bunch of combinations of all these suggestions, so I think my biggest challenge right now is committing to a specific set (I'll probably either pick the hyper-offensive Yveltal or the slower stronger Maw and not make both extra bulky, but have to see which I prefer). Either way, thank you both! This will probably be my last RMT for VGC 2016 but I look forward to hitting you guys up for VGC 2017 :) GL with all of your teams
 
Yeah I've been trying out a bunch of combinations of all these suggestions, so I think my biggest challenge right now is committing to a specific set (I'll probably either pick the hyper-offensive Yveltal or the slower stronger Maw and not make both extra bulky, but have to see which I prefer). Either way, thank you both! This will probably be my last RMT for VGC 2016 but I look forward to hitting you guys up for VGC 2017 :) GL with all of your teams
Np man! Can't wait for 2017 :D
 

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