The Everything NFL Thread - 2017-18 season

Status
Not open for further replies.
The hot white people takes about Cam Newton are coming in. The crop looks ripe this year.

Cam is fucking amazing and he's in a garbage offense who can't playcall it's way out of a paper bag. You are right that he can't replicate that one season because it required him to be a ridiculous Adonis God of football to achieve that level of production with the tools he had.

The overrated NFC south QB was just league MVP and he's gonna crash to reality this season.
What being white has to do with one's opinions on a QB? He had one awesome season, the same way Joe Flacco had an awesome postseason and Eli Manning had two awesome Super Bowls. Nothing more.If you can't be consistent, you can't be counted on.
 

Mr.E

unban me from Discord
is a Two-Time Past SPL Champion
I hate Cam Newton because he made numerous moral misgivings in his young life that I should probably forgive him for, he blatantly cheated the system in college even though the system sucks so I shouldn't care about them getting it stuck to them, and he's a big fucking baby. He's at least a slightly above average QB.
 
Cam is fucking amazing
Lowest comp % in the league among qualified QBs last season (the 2nd lowest in the last 20 seasons) He can't win from the pocket and there's a 6 year sample size to support this.
The overrated NFC south QB was just league MVP and he's gonna crash to reality this season.
Matt Ryan also had an aberration season that will never be replicated, but hes still a top 10 QB.

Use your eyes instead of basing every opinion on Cian Fahey's (bad) QB analysis
By the way, I've heard Ealy been sucking, are these reports true? Lol and everyone was talking about how the Panthers got fleeced in that trade (I miss you Gettleman).
Ya i'd be surprised if he makes much of an impact this season, he'll probably play alot of snaps tho considering how weak the Patriots pass rushing depth is.
 
Last edited:
Matt Ryan has literally been a top 10 QB every year he's been in the league except 2009 and 2015. He might not have another MVP quality season in him (I'm not sure why anyone would think this in particular, but whatever) but his reality IS a top QB and the best chance to rival ARod once Brady and Brees retire.

Also enough with the Newton and Kaepernick bait please
 
Matt Ryan has literally been a top 10 QB every year he's been in the league except 2009 and 2015. He might not have another MVP quality season in him (I'm not sure why anyone would think this in particular, but whatever) but his reality IS a top QB and the best chance to rival ARod once Brady and Brees retire.
Going into last season Matt Ryan was incredibly mediocre for a 3 year span. Hes not in the Brady/Rodgers/Brees tier.

My Top 10 would probably be

Tier 1
1a.Brady
1b.Rodgers (if you like aesthetically appealing throws you go Rodgers, if you like everything else you go Brady)
3.Brees

Tier 2
4.Wilson
5.Luck
6.Ryan
7.Roethlisberger
8.Rivers
9.Carr
10.Stafford
 
here's proof that patriot fans don't know football

Probably my favorite Wilson play.

Such a perfect NFC championship clinching deep ball thrown by the 2nd highest rated passer in NFL history.

Shame that the QB he played in the game after didn't get abused by his team's defense and shredded it in the 4th quarter.
 
Last edited:
Jay Cutler has showed something interesting. Being able to be a proper gunslinger with Adam Gase's offense and all the weapons is nice. I think Dolphins fans won't miss Tanehill.
 
Going into last season Matt Ryan was incredibly mediocre for a 3 year span. Hes not in the Brady/Rodgers/Brees tier.

My Top 10 would probably be

Tier 1
1a.Brady
1b.Rodgers (if you like aesthetically appealing throws you go Rodgers, if you like everything else you go Brady)
3.Brees

Tier 2
4.Wilson
5.Luck
6.Ryan
7.Roethlisberger
8.Rivers
9.Carr
10.Stafford
This list is honestly the most accurate list I've ever seen and props for giving Rivers a shoutout here when most people would shoehorn Cam Newton in here somewhere
 

TheValkyries

proudly reppin' 2 superbowl wins since DEFLATEGATE
Lowest comp % in the league among qualified QBs last season (the 2nd lowest in the last 20 seasons) He can't win from the pocket and there's a 6 year sample size to support this.
Yeah this would be a valid point if in fact Cam was being asked to do normal from the pocket QB things. Instead they base the entire offense off his running ability and do heavy play action into long developing deep plays. He's had top 2 highest percentage of throws going 20+ yards in the air for multiple seasons now and in the last season he threw it 20+ yards more often than he threw passes behind the line of scrimmage (13.83% to 13.38%). Not only that, he was dead last in percentage of throws from beyond the line of scrimmage to 5 yards out (19.05%) which is where QBs throw the lions share of their passes (30.31% was the median). Completion percentage totals are so blatantly inflated by where you're throwing the ball (Sam Bradford set a completion record last season while throwing the ball less than 5 yards 62.13% of the time), and if they weren't we'd have to consider that maybe Alex Smith (56.33% <5 yards) or Kirk Cousins (53.15% <5 yards) and the many other checkdown masters are good actually and not just hamstringing their offenses.

Ultimately we don't know if Cam can consistently win from the pocket because he's never been in a situation which allows him to succeed as purely a passer despite the fact that his passing ability is good enough that he can carry a season the way he did in 2015. This is why in the Super Bowl of that season Cam had to drop back and wait for these dumbass long plays to develop and just get hit by great pass rushers rather than the offense calling plays that develop quickly and give him options to throw to which would mitigate the pass rush.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MK
Yeah this would be a valid point if in fact Cam was being asked to do normal from the pocket QB things. Instead they base the entire offense off his running ability and do heavy play action into long developing deep plays. He's had top 2 highest percentage of throws going 20+ yards in the air for multiple seasons now and in the last season he threw it 20+ yards more often than he threw passes behind the line of scrimmage (13.83% to 13.38%). Not only that, he was dead last in percentage of throws from beyond the line of scrimmage to 5 yards out (19.05%) which is where QBs throw the lions share of their passes (30.31% was the median). Completion percentage totals are so blatantly inflated by where you're throwing the ball (Sam Bradford set a completion record last season while throwing the ball less than 5 yards 62.13% of the time), and if they weren't we'd have to consider that maybe Alex Smith (56.33% <5 yards) or Kirk Cousins (53.15% <5 yards) and the many other checkdown masters are good actually and not just hamstringing their offenses.

Ultimately we don't know if Cam can consistently win from the pocket because he's never been in a situation which allows him to succeed as purely a passer despite the fact that his passing ability is good enough that he can carry a season the way he did in 2015. This is why in the Super Bowl of that season Cam had to drop back and wait for these dumbass long plays to develop and just get hit by great pass rushers rather than the offense calling plays that develop quickly and give him options to throw to which would mitigate the pass rush.
Spot on lol. I'm impressed that you know this much about the Panthers' offense.

The reasons as to why Cam's comp % is so low is for those reasons. He rarely throws short passes (in comparison to league average), throws deep quite a lot (and he does have elite deep accuracy, for deep passing standards), all of which would naturally lead to a lower comp %, no matter which QB is asked to do these things. Acurracy =/= comp %. Drops also really don't help, Panthers had one of the worst drop percentages (not drops themselves, because the Panthers pass among the least of all NFL teams, Panthers offense is very run-heavy as you all know). Really, all I have to say about the matter is that Ted Ginn was his #1 in 2015, see his OT drop vs. the Colts during the MNF game.

Honestly, Cam will never be an "elite" QB by typical QB standards. He doesn't have excellent passing skills, his frame is atypical for NFL QBs, he can't make some throws Brady or Rodgers will throw. However, he's really good at what he's specifically asked to do in his offense. That's why we're so high on him and we day he's a great QB. The effect McCaffrey and Samuel can have on this offense is something I'm looking forward to watch. But my biggest hope is that he can stay healthy this year behind a line that looks miles ahead of anything we had last year.
 
I don't know if I'd describe doubling down on Kalil linemen as "miles ahead of last year" lol
Anything is an improvement over Remmers and whatever we dealt with last year, I think there were like 10 different combinations? Injuries were so bad we lost 1st + 2nd C, 1st LT. So RT shifted to LT, RG shifted to RT, and... yeah. The offensive line has been extremely good over the last 3 games, I think the 1st team line has surrendered 0 sacks so far.

edit: as long as Matt Kalil can be almost near average, it'll be fine. The line was ok with Oher at LT and Remmers at RT in 2015, and with RT vastly improved, it's up to Kalil to not be absolutely dreadful, and so far he's done well enough.
 
Last edited:

TheValkyries

proudly reppin' 2 superbowl wins since DEFLATEGATE
The line is miles ahead but also they still have a long way to go to really help out any. Right now I'm hoping for a line that isn't actively hurting things, both literally and figuratively.
 
Cam was the most Blitzed QB in the NFL last year, and his passer rating against the blitz was 40 points lower than it was in 2015.

Since he started playing hes been one of the most blitzed QBs in the NFL. Logically one can assume that this is because defensive coordinators see that he has problems reading a defense/going through progressions (which can explain why he doesn't make checkdowns) and that his mechanics get sloppy (relying completely on his arm strength and not stepping into throws) when facing extra rushers.

Asking Cam Newton to win from the pocket is dumb, it doesn't play to his strengths and limits his effectiveness. He'll never be a guy that strings together multiple 8-12 play TD drives with 5-10 yard completions.

Literally even said it himself
 

TheValkyries

proudly reppin' 2 superbowl wins since DEFLATEGATE
Or logically, his low numbers against the blitz and high frequency of opposing blitzes is because he literally doesn't have short crossing routes and checkdowns that exploit heavy blitzes like every other modern offense. Which you would see. If you watched Cam's games. He's behind a poor offensive line which was even worse last season, hence the aberrant dip in passer rating when blitzed last season

You're use of his Lion roaring quote is strange because asking him to play from the pocket doesn't mean he can't also run and make big yards doing so. It just means giving him better options to throw to rather than just putting everyone on go routes. This is why the McCaffery pick by the Panthers is so interesting because they've never really heavily used pass catching running backs before so HOPEFULLY they shift offensive styles, OR they could just decide to never utilize him. Like they do with Cam.

Also it's ridiculous to say Cam is literally just too dumb struggles to read defenses and move through progressions (CODED FOOTBALL TAKE ALERT) when he's the literal most dangerous player in the red zone every single year when all of his routes are forced to be short and are in denser coverage. His ability to run roughshod over people makes him able to manipulate dense coverages better than anyone in the league and yet he isn't asked to do that. How can you think he can't do a thing he pretty blatantly already does??? If he's doing well in the Red Zone why isn't he doing as well elsewhere, is it because every defense in the league just suddenly gets stupid past the 20 yard line? Or could it be that his offensive coordinator is the stupid one? :thinking:
 
  • Like
Reactions: MK
You're blaming everyone except Cam Newton for Cam Newton's problems.

Do they receive all the credit if hes better this year?
I been sayin for weeks how the hell is Cooks going 1000+, but this sure is one way. The second coming of Moss if Gronk keels over halfway through the season again.
Chris hogan is gonna get most of Edelman's targets imo

Also preseason is the dumbest shit.
 

WaterBomb

Two kids no brane
is a Forum Moderatoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Moderator
Also preseason is the dumbest shit.
While I agree preseason is dumb, this was a non-contact injury that could just as easily happened at practice. It's just bad luck, the fact that it happened during a preseason game is irrelevant in this case.

That being said, the Patriots are notorious for breezing past stuff like this without even trying. They won the Super Bowl without Gronkowski, they could just as easily do so without Edelman. I'm not expecting to see their offense slow down at all.
 
I'd like to know how you figure this. Cooks is the WR1 now.
Because hes been their best receiver in camp and was practicing in the slot before Edelman was injured.

Cooks won't be playing the slot, Hogan + Amendola will get most of Edelman's targets, but amendola is made of porcelain so I doubt he'll last very long.

I'd probably put money on hogan having around 75 catches this year if he stays healthy
 

WaterBomb

Two kids no brane
is a Forum Moderatoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Moderator
I'd like to know how you figure this. Cooks is the WR1 now.
Cooks and Edelman have different skillsets. Edelman was their "wr1" by virtue of targets but he still played mostly slot, which most wr1s don't. Hogan will undoubtedly pick up most of Edelman's snaps , we'll see if it equates to the targets as well. My prediction is that Hogan will see the biggest individual increase in targets from last season, but Edelman's targets overall will be distributed amongst several wrs.
 
Forgot to reply yesterday. I think I misinterpreted that to he'll be getting the most targets on the team, replacing Edelman.

He'll definitely get the snaps and will have the largest increase in targets of the returning players.

Even with his lack of slot work, I think Cooks will lead the team. I have a feeling they'll try to have Brady do some deep ball campaign before he retires, especially with his deep throw game always questioned.

That said, I also believe the Madden curse is real and has already started. If Brady is in fact immune, the waves are bouncing off of him on to the others. I'll wager Amendola will get knocked and so will Lewis again. And Gronk of course. Lucky for them, White seems to be their late/post season miracle receiver.
 
I have a feeling they'll try to have Brady do some deep ball campaign before he retires, especially with his deep throw game always questioned.

That said, I also believe the Madden curse is real and has already started. If Brady is in fact immune, the waves are bouncing off of him on to the others. I'll wager Amendola will get knocked and so will Lewis again. And Gronk of course. Lucky for them, White seems to be their late/post season miracle receiver.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 1)

Top