Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Volcarona Suspect]

[StompyStomps]

I have heard people say we should ban Stellar Tera, so here is my two cents on the matter.
Stellar Tera- Mid af, only busted on Enamorus and Serperior
Enamorus- A Contrary Pokemon with good coverage and stats
imo we should suspect test Enam at least

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

I have heard people say we should ban Stellar Tera, so here is my two cents on the matter.
Stellar Tera- Mid af, only busted on Enamorus and Serperior
Enamorus- A Contrary Pokemon with good coverage and stats
imo we should suspect test Enam at least

i'm not sure even about those two. i haven't had particular trouble with serperior and most of the sets i see aren't even tera stellar, they're fire or ground tera blast. as for enamorus, i haven't seen much of her at all and she hasn't given me any trouble when she's shown up, but i'm not particularly high on ladder so maybe i just haven't run into anyone who knows how to use her right. but we're only four days in, they could be broken or they could be fine, it doesn't really make a whole lot of sense to be talking about suspect tests right now

 

[Avira]

Stellar Tera isn't broken on Serperior. It is pretty mid on it since it lacks the power to beat things like Heatran, which Tera Ground allows it to do. Several different tera options are available to Serperior to allow the user to beat what he/she wants.

Enamorus is by far the best user of Stellar Tera, and although offensive counterplay to it is still mostly the same as before, you have to be wary of Tera Blast chunking your defensive Fairy resists while gaining a boost to its offenses. Being able to Stellar Tera has catapulted Enamorus to being a top tier mon. Maybe there will be an influx of AV Pex since that's one of the better checks to Enamorus. It's still too soon to say.

 

[Vengeance417]

What are some thoughts on running Burning Bulwark on Gouging Fire?

On a sun team with dual spinners + Wishpass Scream Tail (sometimes I'll use Hatterene instead, but I like the consistent healing I get from ST), I've even been enjoying Burning Bulwark on a DD Leftovers set. It's a great move to help scout for whatever moves that can seriously hurt Gouging Fire, to burn a Scarf Lando U-turning to predicting a switch, to burn a Headlong Rush Great Tusk, or just to simply get some free Leftovers health back. Been running BB, DD, Flare Blitz, and Earthquake with Tera Fairy to remove rocks weakness and bait the many opposing Dragon-types we have running around right now. Really fun set, especially with the extra firepower from Sun and Protosynthesis.

 

[Heatranator]

Stellar tera is useful for a lot of wallbreaking pokemon that want to click multiple moves, mainly stabs. Because it gives 2x boosts to stab types once, that means that you don't have to be walled by one type because it resists your tera stab. An example is iron bouler, which even after a swords dance, sometimes needs a bit more power to get past pokemon like great tusk because the stab psychic moves are so bad for it. You can try to give it psychic tera, but you may run into a dark mon or air balloon gholdengo, where you would have preffered rock Plus, having earthquake or cc have a 1.2x boost is not bad.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

You can try to give it psychic tera, but you may run into a dark mon or air balloon gholdengo, where you would have preffered rock

your overall point is good, stellar tera could see some use on breakers, but i'm not really following this sentence in particular. why is it preferable to keep your rock typing in these scenarios? you're still weak to dark and ghost, with an additional weakness to steel that makes you worse into ghold. am i missing something? because i feel like i read this wrong

 

[Heatranator]

your overall point is good, stellar tera could see some use on breakers, but i'm not really following this sentence in particular. why is it preferable to keep your rock typing in these scenarios? you're still weak to dark and ghost, with an additional weakness to steel that makes you worse into ghold. am i missing something? because i feel like i read this wrong

Sorry, I worded that wrongly. It was more of a concept, but I was specifically talking about how with the 2x rock boost with stellar, that can be enough to break through the dark types that are immune to your psychic moves. Since boulder doesn't hit super hard, it's better as a cleaner, every little boost you can get is great. In some scenarios, yes, losing your rock typing is better. But you can get good damage against gholdengo or gambit. It's less so about the defensive typing, and more about the offensive power.

+2 252 Atk Iron Boulder Mighty Cleave vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 153-180 (48.5 - 57.1%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Tera Stellar Iron Boulder Mighty Cleave vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 204-241 (64.7 - 76.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

But what about great tusk? It can still take your hits well.
+2 252 Atk Iron Boulder Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Great Tusk: 294-348 (67.7 - 80.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Tera Stellar Iron Boulder Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Great Tusk: 392-464 (90.3 - 106.9%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
Basically, you get the best of both worlds, you can ko important targets that are most likely the defensive backbones of your opponents team.

 

[Cuddly]

I feel like GameFreak really made Stellar type too weak, only being useful on a handful of Pokemon. Namely Pokemon who "don't use it like other Pokemon". Contrary Pokemon obviously reversing the whole Tera Blast dropping your offenses, and Terapagos who has its own unique version that doesn't decay the boosts it gets.
Besides that, Stellar type ranges from extremely sucky to niche at best. It would have been way better if the boosts were permanent or if you could recharge them in some way, or of the boosts were strong enough to justify being once per game boost. It's also not like Tera Blast is even good with it, hitting everything neutrally and Tera Super Effectively, as it drops your offenses.
It's kind of a shame that's the way it is because it's a great counter to defensive Teras. Kingambit with Tera available? Well now you can just Stellar Tera in order beat any Tera it could possibly use.

 

[tommytt22]

I wrote the article for Comfey on the new and returning pokemon thread. I couldnt actually bring myself to use it until today and boy did i underestimate it.

@ Grassy Seed
Ability: Triage
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 208 HP / 252 Def / 48 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draining Kiss
- Stored Power
- Calm Mind
- Synthesis

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think if you tera fairy, it boosts the power of Draining Kiss to 60 in addition to the 2x STAB modifier. The BP boost typically doesn't apply to priority moves, but Draining Kiss isn't normally a priority move so I think it qualifies. Other teras are probably generally better but it could be worth it sometimes if you're using the mon as basically a cleaner. Might be ass in OU though lol

credit where credit is due, i overlooked tera boosting moves to 60bp. so tera fairy comfey really hits quite a lot harder with draining kiss than youd expect. In grassy terrain you can expect to 1v1 threats like offensive gouging fire, dragapult, great tusk, greninja, valiant etc. most of these dont require sinking your tera

 

[Avira]

I don't think Iron Boulder actually wants to use Zen Headbutt as you'd get walled by Ting-Lu. Thus, I believe the best set is clearly, SD, Mighty Cleave, Earthquake, and Close Combat. Ting-Lu being able to whirlwind you out without you doing significant damage to it would really suck whereas Close Combat does big damage to Ting-Lu with Tera Fighting OHKOing at +2.

 

[Heatranator]

I don't think Iron Boulder actually wants to use Zen Headbutt as you'd get walled by Ting-Lu. Thus, I believe the best set is clearly, SD, Mighty Cleave, Earthquake, and Close Combat. Ting-Lu being able to whirlwind you out without you doing significant damage to it would really suck whereas Close Combat does big damage to Ting-Lu.

Fair, but then you get walled by great tusk. Being walled by one of the best pokemon in the tier is not very good, plus being stab it still hits neutral targets pretty hard.

Also, leading choice band araquanid is so awesome. Like doing 97% to great tusk's and 55% to torkoal's is so amazing. It even forced a torkoal to tera water. I dare someone to run the set in a tournament setting. If you do it, I will have endless respect for you.

 

[Heatranator]

Sorry for double posting, but this clip is too funny not to share. My guy was malding because he simply got outplayed by the funny spider.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2015761595

 

[UltiNooba19]

Fair, but then you get walled by great tusk. Being walled by one of the best pokemon in the tier is not very good, plus being stab it still hits neutral targets pretty hard.

Also, leading choice band araquanid is so awesome. Like doing 97% to great tusk's and 55% to torkoal's is so amazing. It even forced a torkoal to tera water. I dare someone to run the set in a tournament setting. If you do it, I will have endless respect for you.

Choice Band Tera Water Araquanid in the Rain.

Here's a few fun calcs

252+ Atk Choice Band Water Bubble Tera Water Araquanid Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola in Rain: 253-298 (47.3 - 55.8%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO

78% chance to 2HKO Phys Def Alomomola

252+ Atk Choice Band Water Bubble Tera Water Araquanid Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rillaboom in Rain: 331-390 (97 - 114.3%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

81% chance to OHKO Banded Rillaboom

252+ Atk Choice Band Water Bubble Tera Water Araquanid Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Hydrapple in Rain: 140-165 (33.6 - 39.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Guaranteed 3HKO on AV Hydrapple despite its fantastic physical bulk and its 4X resist

DAMN

 

[tommytt22]

I know im a bastard for 2 stored power mons on the same team but for anyone wanting to see comfey in action here it is (1500-1650) hopefully back towards 1700 this weekend ill see how it does there.

EDIT: replays keep stacking up

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2015760943

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2015763212

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2015767462

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2015810058

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2015812399-ij0l9kkummnhkhe0e0cpyxhxnagr6bwpw

 

[Soiramio3000]

Staying:

Staying but will drop eventually:

Dropping:

Mons like Hydrapple, Archaludon, and Darkrai will only be OU because of new toy syndrome.
Please let me know if I missed anything

Why do you think that skarmory is going to drop?
There are people areguing that it is better than corviknight thanks to its ability to set spikes.

 

[YubelVT]

Why do you think that skarmory is going to drop?
There are people areguing that it is better than corviknight thanks to its ability to set spikes.

I think it's because of Gen 8 where, despite Skarm's better physical bulk and access to spikes, it was relatively niche compared to corviknight being an OU staple. I think that skarm will drop but will still be a good pick in OU, just not consistent 3.41% good.

i mean, what's the worst that can happen, right? it's not like it'll overstay its welcome if it does happen to still be broken. when has gen 7 ou ever kept anything in the tier for too long? please do not look at the baton pass threads

I used to think that pex was banworthy so :)

 

[Pando067]

I was gonna make a post rebuking this because I'm an avid SM OU apologist, but then I looked at the VR (Thundurus-T at B- as of january 2023 we're winning boys), looked at Darkrai's stats and movepool, and realized that it really wouldn't have been all that. Like I don't think the tier needs another strong fast special attacker so I'm not exactly sad that Darkrai isn't present, but it really wouldn't break the format. Plus it really would just destroy shed stall which is an objectively good thing.

Nevermind Darkrai doesn't have psycock it can't beat chansey it's so over

Darkrai is never beating the mid allegations, bro literally cant break a single special wall, has major 4mss, and it has insane skill issue. Also, negative bulk so you can't even set up if u aren't using hynosis and praying it lands.

Also wtf is up with psycock

 

[peepeepoopoo722]

I once again wish people would understand that a good idea (in this case, retesting Darkrai in older gens) can be ruined by expressing it like an asshole

That aside, for an actual discussion, is there anything you people felt would be good but now is looking could drop to UU?

Idk I feel like the vibe is right fr.

In my opinion about Darkrai I think it's more about people having a sorta "Uber prejudice". It happens all the time something was top once gets dropped, why I remember back in gen 7 people were calling Mega-Mawile and Greninja broken mons who should be booted back to Ubers and both were solid picks for OU, same thing in Gen 8 with Blaziken were everyone was saying it was gonna tear the tier apart... and then it ended up as a mostly mid pick with better fire mons in Volcarona, Volcanion and Heatran. Like there's nothing wrong in being careful about nominations, take Genesect, it always starts as OU and 2 hours later it gets the ban, but we should not be afraid to look at a mon who got hit with some hard nerfs and bring it to OU, I mean Aegis got the boot two times and Zama-H also took some heavy nerfs and while some people still claim the latter it's broken I think most people agree they are fine.
TL/DR: It's fine whenever or not you thought/think a mon is broken, we can always test it, just be polite to your fellow users.

I disagree the attitude towards unbans has been so condescending and rude that a little gloating is entirely appropriate to correct the prior behavior so those users can be more polite going forward. I hope midrai is a humbling experience.

"But but it will be broken once we ban 16 other offensive mons!"

 

[power]

I was gonna make a post rebuking this because I'm an avid SM OU apologist, but then I looked at the VR (Thundurus-T at B- as of january 2023 we're winning boys), looked at Darkrai's stats and movepool, and realized that it really wouldn't have been all that. Like I don't think the tier needs another strong fast special attacker so I'm not exactly sad that Darkrai isn't present, but it really wouldn't break the format. Plus it really would just destroy shed stall which is an objectively good thing.

Nevermind Darkrai doesn't have psycock it can't beat chansey it's so over

Yeah I mean I don't think it's a obvious lock that Darkrai is balanced in SM, but I think it's above 50% to be balanced

I once again wish people would understand that a good idea (in this case, retesting Darkrai in older gens) can be ruined by expressing it like an asshole

It would be really stupid for the decision-makers in charge of SM to not retest a likely balanced pokemon because I said something rudely and hurt their feelings. People should be able to separate out their objective opinions about the Pokemon.

Anyway this is getting pretty off topic relative to the thread, so if anyone else actually cares and wants continue this conversation they should feel free to start a Policy Review Thread. I don't really care enough to push on fixing the mistake myself and this discussion doesn't really belong in this thread and should probably stop.

 

[YubelVT]

In my opinion about Darkrai I think it's more about people having a sorta "Uber prejudice". It happens all the time something was top once gets dropped, why I remember back in gen 7 people were calling Mega-Mawile and Greninja broken mons who should be booted back to Ubers and both were solid picks for OU, same thing in Gen 8 with Blaziken were everyone was saying it was gonna tear the tier apart... and then it ended up as a mostly mid pick with better fire mons in Volcarona, Volcanion and Heatran. Like there's nothing wrong in being careful about nominations, take Genesect, it always starts as OU and 2 hours later it gets the ban, but we should not be afraid to look at a mon who got hit with some hard nerfs and bring it to OU, I mean Aegis got the boot two times and Zama-H also took some heavy nerfs and while some people still claim the latter it's broken I think most people agree they are fine.
TL/DR: It's fine whenever or not you thought/think a mon is broken, we can always test it, just be polite to your fellow users.

For SM Greninja specifically, it's definitely borderline banworthy (at least ash gren is). Stupid strong, stupid fast, a pivot move, and priority. Specs Ash Gren can and will tear you a new asshole. That being said I agree with you otherwise.

 

[Wolf-X]

I don't think Iron Boulder actually wants to use Zen Headbutt as you'd get walled by Ting-Lu. Thus, I believe the best set is clearly, SD, Mighty Cleave, Earthquake, and Close Combat. Ting-Lu being able to whirlwind you out without you doing significant damage to it would really suck whereas Close Combat does big damage to Ting-Lu with Tera Fighting OHKOing at +2.

I usually run SD, MCleave, CC and Zen Head. I think it offers the best coverage without relying on Tera Blast sets.

Yeah, Gholdengo fucks you you but most Gholdengos usually have ballon or something so not even EQ is safe bet there.

 

[MrE]

Roaring moon feels like the most busted mon to me right now, it's stole loads of games for me and I'm not sure that we actually got any new checks/counters with the dlc outside of Skarm, but Skarm isn't the biggest fan of all the sun teams running around right now that Moon often finds itself on.

 

[Pokemon Trainer: Shadow]

Yea, Moon feels a little problematic. There's really not much you can do to it once it gets up one DD and Acrobatics 2HKO's damn near everything.

It's ironic this Pokemon used to he considered subpar.

 

[arnimacarni]

I was just in the OU chatroom, I played in a tour and got to the final where I was promptly crushed by the legend Vkhss (it wasn't even close lol) but I got carried by this dumb rain team I quickly built (https://pokepast.es/e4eec429a19032d6).

Posting it here bc there isn't much to say to write up an RMT. Standard PhysDef Peli, AV Bridge with Max HP and SpDef, SubAgility Walter White with Hydro Steam to counter Sun, Standard Gliscor and Bulky Rain Tera Grass Volcarona which is like one of my fav mons to use in every gen. I didn't add a sixth mon yet bc I was running Specs Kingdra for most games but I didn't even use it once, for the last game I brought Smart Strike Banded Overqwil to counter the Kyurem I saw him use in his games but I totally forgot I already had Bridge with a Steel move lol. So any input/tips/shade for a final mon and some fine tuning is really appreciated.

The thing I've enjoyed about Archaludon in Rain is that Electro Shot gives you the boost even if the move fails (like against Ground types or whatever). Allows to drop a strong STAB move afterwards regardless.

 

[MaahirMomtaz12]

Pokémon dropped a teaser regarding the Epilogue for the DLC. Looks like Pecharunt is being released a lot earlier than I thought, on January 11