Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Volcarona Suspect]

[Kenpwnchi]

Man I really gotta disagree with serp being as high on the viability rankings as it is, this thing is so garbage. I couldnt even tell you why since in theory it should be great but in practice grass is a joke type, stellar tera doesnt do enough for it, its too slow, and usually at most it gets one para + chip in exchange for being a massive drain in team support and tera support.

It's all good, famski. I'm with you on this. But let the "Haha" Reactors tell it (who use the Reaction button in a failed attempt to be condescending), Serperior is good. Go figure.

 

[Tio Chico]

It's certainly not the time to define the best set and evs for but this guy has a potential niche in the anti-metagame.
Neutralizing Gas allows you to use Defog in emergency cases even if you hear a Gholdengo on the opponent's team. You can induce status in Gholdengo, Garganacl, and Hatterene. Weather and Terrain inducers fail if Weezing-Galar is already on the field. Just like Booster Energy users.
Ignores Contrary users. Her type is very unique and Tera can save some situations. Remove Toxic Spikes.
Your utility arsenal has Clear Smog, Defog, Taunt, Destiny Bond, WoW, Haze, Pain Split, Toxic, Toxic Spikes. Offensively Overheat, Strange Stream, Sludge Wave/Bomb and Shadow Ball/Dark Pulse don't let him be so passive even with a measly 85 SpA.
Don't sleep on this guy.

is incredibly adaptable, this guy never ceases to surprise.

 

[jdcomix]

May I ask why we're pretending Serperior isn't one of the five or ten best Pokemon in OU right now? Low ladder trash here but just about every high ladder game I've watched has had a Serperior put in work

 

[Pokenar]

May I ask why we're pretending Serperior isn't one of the five or ten best Pokemon in OU right now? Low ladder trash here but just about every high ladder game I've watched has had a Serperior put in work

everyone but like 2 people are discussing it as being one of the best, the f you mean we're pretending its not.

 

[jdcomix]

everyone but like 2 people are discussing it as being one of the best, the f you mean we're pretending its not.

Didn't mean to derail the discussion, was just confused why anyone was saying that to begin with lol

So this isn't a one liner, how is sand faring in this meta? Ttar got its best bud back (Excadrill) but it seems like I still never see sand teams

 

[NotDaProGamer]

Didn't mean to derail the discussion, was just confused why anyone was saying that to begin with lol

So this isn't a one liner, how is sand faring in this meta? Ttar got its best bud back (Excadrill) but it seems like I still never see sand teams

because rain got and archaludon while sun has raging bolt, , gouging fire and moon was unbanned, as well as (in theory, it ain't used in practice). It's still better than snow now at least

 

[Pokenar]

because rain got and while sun has raging bolt, , gouging fire and moon was unbanned, as well as (in theory, it ain't used in practice). It's still better than hail now at least

Snow has Kyurem at least
But yeah, I've mostly seen sun teams with the occasional rain team, sand teams and snow teams barely exist at all.

 

[turd2]

Darkrai will get banned once the meta settles.

There are more pressing things to ban, first...

Quote me when it happens.

 

[NotDaProGamer]

If you want to play sand jdcomix I think Dhrabb made an RMT about it here if you want a pre-made team.
Limited Time Field Affect Team Viability Rankings (personal)
Sun=Rain
Grassy Terrain
Sand
Veil (DEDICATED SNOW IS A DIFFERENT THING)
Dual Screens
Everything lower than this is unviable
Psychic Terrain
Snow
Electric Terrain
Trick Room
Memes below this point
Magic Room
Misty Terrain (lol)
Wonder Room

 

[YubelVT]

gamers, anyone remember waterpon? Any expectations for it still being cracked out the ass or has all the new stuff made it fine and balanced. Genuine question

 

[Magcargo]

gamers, anyone remember waterpon? Any expectations for it still being cracked out the ass or has all the new stuff made it fine and balanced. Genuine question

People will complain about it being too much soon enough but for now, it's fairly manageable. New threats like Hydrapple, Raging Thunder, and Archaludon are solid checks, and other MUs like Serp and Kyurem aren't the best either.

 

[658Greninja]

gamers, anyone remember waterpon? Any expectations for it still being cracked out the ass or has all the new stuff made it fine and balanced. Genuine question

Its still a solid meta mon, but there is an abundance of dragons in the tier. Plus several new threats like Moon, Deo-S, Darkrai, and buffed Weavile make it harder to splash onto teams. The dragons means Wogre has to run Play Rough, so no Spikes, Knock Off, Encore, etc.

 

[carbonlifeform]

Do NOT use Supercell Slam that shit has a 0% percent accuracy rate

I've actually been shocked by how good this move has felt, at least on Iron Hands. The 33% power increase over Thunder Punch is really notable and nabs some big KOs that Thunder Punch can't. I've managed to only click it into a ground type once so far, and that was a late match 50/50 where I was going to die to toxic damage that turn anyway. There are gonna be matches where that 95% accuracy along with the miss penalty turns a game, but so will nabbing a KO vs not.

Honestly, it's probably the single best argument for running Hands in Terrain (if you want to meme like me), since it frees you up to run Ice Punch without losing to Dirge (70% chance to 2HKO full PhysDef Dirge in terrain without any attack investment), Dengo (OHKOs non-defensive after spikes, east-peasy 2HKO on defensive sets), or other things you'd otherwise run EQ for and to take out threatening Fighting resists like Volcarona (85% minimum to Bulky variants), Unaware Clefable (takes 60% minimum) and more. I'll probably come back to it once the meta settles a bit because it really is an amazing stall/balance breaker in terrain, but mid-ladder is still pretty HO-infested.

Can you please upload the Meteor Beam team in a Pokepaste? I really want to try that out.

Here's the Moth + Hands version and here's the Valiant + Boulder version. Note, the EV spread on Valiant hasn't been optimized in any way, I just swapped the Atk and SpA investment from what I ran when I last tried this craziness. The rest of the team is just some general anti-meta stuff with Hatt to mess with lead Deo-S, CB Dragonite to immediately threaten a thousand different things that can otherwise take over a game, and AV Hamurott to bring spikes support and a good-enough emergency check to Gambit, Dengo, Specs Pult, Wake, Tran and others.

 

[TCTphantom]

Honestly, I am loving the current meta right now. Its very diverse after the Terapagos ban. Just gonna go through a few new mons and my thoughts on them.

: This is the only mon right now I would look into action on. Deoxys Speed's lead sets are... fine. I know a lot of people have mixed feelings of HO, but to be honest Deoxys Speed isn't that much scarier than the Hisuian Samurott, Glimmora, or Meowscarada HO leads we saw this gen.

My concern is the offensive sets are pretty dang good. LO 4 Attacks or Nasty Plot end up feeling like a Dragapult on crack. You outspeed so much and can revenge kill so much of the tier. It isn't impossible to deal with and is more threatening to Hyper Offense than it is to Balance, Bulky Offense, or Stall, but it is something on my radar. I want to see more of where this trends going forward. Right now it feels like a borderline case to me, but part of that feels like people just are not building in account for it. A lot of the Deoxys Speed usaged on ladder is the standard spikes set, which while good is not what pushes it towards the edge.

Darkrai will get banned once the meta settles.

There are more pressing things to ban, first...

Quote me when it happens.

On a more serious note, this thing is fine. Even on balance, Darkrai feels manageable. Hypnosis Nasty Plot is bait and bad. Nasty Plot 3 Attacks hates how fast the meta is and having to choose between Life Orb and Boots is back breaking. Specs and Scarf are pretty nice right now, especially with Booster Valiants and Boulders running around for Scarf to help pick off.

I think people need to look at this thing less as a Nasty Plot bot, and moreso the way they look at Dragapult or Gengar. Darkrai has plenty of disruptive tools beyond just Hypnosis. I have found Sub Disable, Sub Wisp, Taunt Nasty Plot, heck even Thunder Wave sets better than the Hypnosis sets. If anything, I like the effect and tools Darkrai gives us in this meta. It is a nice piece of speed control and disruption, which is a great touch right now.

: Gouging Fire is so much fun. It provides such a good defensive backbone for fat teams while being a great sun abuser in its own right. It is probably the most fun to use out of the new drops and I love the effect it has had on the tier. I've seen more of a trend towards Bulky DD on Sun with Morning Sun now that Terapagos is gone, and it seems very solid. Keep an eye on this one.

On the other hand, Iron Boulder feels very one dimmensional, yet it is still absurdly scary imo. Booster SD is the nuts. Its its only set, but its a very good set. I wouldn't be shocked if this got a lot more ire thrown its way in the future. It is quite strong. Mighty Cleave is goated as well.

This is the only super strong user of Stellar Tera imo. I have seen a bit of it on Offensive Deo S which seemed alright and it on Serperior which seemed... not great. But Enam loves stellar Tera. Contrary sets with Specs or Scarf go hard. Our tier was already starving for more fairy resists, and now we have a surplus of Dragons to prey on too. This feels like a borderline top 5 mon in the meta right now to me, and its super constraining in builder.

It is not bax jr at least. Kyurem has a lot harder time dealing with Steels and hits notably less hard on the physical side. Its still bulky as sin and easily the best reason to run Veil. Specs is also a headache to build for if you build balance, but I think its not nearly as scary as a lot of us worried it would be.

MU Moth is good. Honestly feels pretty nice in the tier right now. I dont think its broken, but man, tossing this thing on balance feels great. I love having Volc in builder to make prepping for Valiant a tinge easier.

 

[Anchor9]

I was struggling climbing ladder. I replaced Kingambit with Smeargle. Now I no longer struggle climbing ladder.

= OP

 

[Soiramio3000]

you know, suicune and raiku aren't half bad in OU.
raikou has a pretty good movepool.
I like this set.
Raikou @ Expert Belt
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Stellar
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Aura Sphere
- Extrasensory
- Scald

and suicune can some times be tricky to kill.
Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Rest
- Substitute
- Scald

I wish I could say something good about entei.
he is not unusable or anything but he is nothing special.
he has got some competition.

 

[pika pal]

Its still a solid meta mon, but there is an abundance of dragons in the tier. Plus several new threats like Moon, Deo-S, Darkrai, and buffed Weavile make it harder to splash onto teams. The dragons means Wogre has to run Play Rough, so no Spikes, Knock Off, Encore, etc.

I wonder if we're gonna see a potential shift in the preferred Ogerpon form. Cornerstone was always more of a spicy or anti-meta pick, but with an influx of mostly-Rock-neutral Dragons, some of which actually gain a Rock Weakness like Gouging Fire and Kyurem, combined with an uptick in other resistors/equal neutralities to Rock vs Water Cudgel coverage (Serperior, Hydrapple, Meowscarada resurgence, Skarmory) and Sun Teams bringing a weakening-weather for Wellspring's STAB and Cornerstone's Water-Neutrality, Cornerstone has a lot more favorable match-ups now than in DLC1.
Even if not better I think there's more of a case for teams wanting it vs Wellspring than DLC1 ever presented.

Both Ogerpons also benefit from the Meta finally seeing some decent Ice STAB users like Weavile and Meowscarada through Triple Axel distribution, which takes a bit of burden off them to face Dragons themselves, while also appreciating Speed Control via Ice Shard in Weavile's case.

 

[Dhrabb]

If you want to play sand jdcomix I think Dhrabb made an RMT about it here if you want a pre-made team.
Limited Time Field Affect Team Viability Rankings (personal)
Sun=Rain
Grassy Terrain
Sand
Veil (DEDICATED SNOW IS A DIFFERENT THING)
Dual Screens
Everything lower than this is unviable
Psychic Terrain
Snow
Electric Terrain
Trick Room
Magic Room
Misty Terrain (lol)
Wonder Room

Ayy thanks for the shoutout :P

Anyway I think the issue with sand teams is that people treat it like and try to play it similar to sun or rain teams, which in my opinion is the wrong approach. Sun and rain are very much dedicated offensive playstyles with a setter and 4 or 5 mons that can abuse the weather they set. Sand on the other hand has historically never been like this. Sand is a tool in the arsenal of some BO/Balance teams that choose to run Tyranitar for its strengths, coincidentally also supporting Excadrill, a good Pokemon in its own right. Tyranitar and Excadrill are good Pokemon separately, and happen to benefit from each other. Looking at sand teams in past gens, you'll see that most teams don't really have any sand abusers, bar Exca itself. I do think sand is a thing people should consider while building, but only as a tool to use rather than a whole playstyle to buiild around.

 

[NotDaProGamer]

Ayy thanks for the shoutout :P

Anyway I think the issue with sand teams is that people treat it like and try to play it similar to sun or rain teams, which in my opinion is the wrong approach. Sun and rain are very much dedicated offensive playstyles with a setter and 4 or 5 mons that can abuse the weather they set. Sand on the other hand has historically never been like this. Sand is a tool in the arsenal of some BO/Balance teams that choose to run Tyranitar for its strengths, coincidentally also supporting Excadrill, a good Pokemon in its own right. Tyranitar and Excadrill are good Pokemon separately, and happen to benefit from each other. Looking at sand teams in past gens, you'll see that most teams don't really have any sand abusers, bar Exca itself. I do think sand is a thing people should consider while building, but only as a tool to use rather than a whole playstyle to buiild around.

First, you're welcome! Thought it was a good team and shared it.
Second... the bolded text is right unless you're in UUbers, where we have a wonderful thing called sand rush last respects houndstone (hehe). But yeah, this is honestly really interesting to me even though some sand teams have mons that passively use the sand whether it is a main part of them or not, like rock/ground/steel types who are immune to it, rocks which gain 1.5x Def or Sp.Def (I forgot which) or sweepers who are annoyed by focus sashers. Also, the world's best cheese/strategy came from it, FEAR Aron. Fear the FEAR mon which has the same name as me!

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

Opening the Ubers gates as soon as the DLC dropped wasn't the play and gen 9 will pay for it long-term. We should've waited a bit to see what's up

i'm actually fine with "opening the ubers gates" in this case. we dropped 4 existing mons, all in line with community input, and 3 returning mons, all of which have some precedent for at least starting ou. none of them have been as obviously, ridiculously, and immediately broken as half the stuff that was dropped last gen; only terapagos, a completely new mon that was dropped before we had all the info on how broken it was, could be considered similarly broken to stuff that got unbanned last gen like lando-i and kyub. i think all of the stuff that dropped did at least deserve a chance, and i say this as someone who tends to lean heavily towards the pro-banning-things camp

 

[Pierpat]

I've just played against a Mud Shot glimmora lead and i'm like... is this what it takes to play against DeoS leads? Does it even work?
I don't even think DeoS is the best lead atm (Hsamurott sweeps) but dear god.
I'm really liking the new dragon overlords of the tear, and think that we might end up in a meta where weather wars isn't the full blown norm but weather will be seen enough to be taken seriously in account in the builder, because both rain and sun have a lot of cool tools.
Sad that sand isn't back, excadrill wasn't enough this time...

 

[SDK03]

On the topic of Deoxys-S and practically every other lead in the tier, yesterday me and a few other people realized that Iron Boulder makes for a really potent anti-lead with Taunt along with Edgequake + Swords Dance.

The weather leads (Torkoal/Pelipper) get hit hard by it, Ninetales-A is prevented from setting Aurora Veil and also gets hit hard, Deoxys-S can’t set any of its hazards or get a Nasty Plot off, the occasional Webs lead like Ribombee or Galvantula also get shut down and killed.

It also has the benefit of preventing Will-O-Wisp and Thunder Wave from mons like Dragapult and Skeledirge while forcing damage onto them.

You can even forgo Swords Dance and just make it an outright lead with Stealth Rock if you wanted to. It doesn’t get that for some reason. Damn.

 

[NotDaProGamer]

On the topic of Deoxys-S and practically every other lead in the tier, yesterday me and a few other people realized that Iron Boulder makes for a really potent anti-lead with Taunt along with Edgequake + Swords Dance.

The weather leads (Torkoal/Pelipper) get hit hard by it, Ninetales-A is prevented from setting Aurora Veil and also gets hit hard, Deoxys-S can’t set any of its hazards or get a Nasty Plot off, the occasional Webs lead like Ribombee or Galvantula also get shut down and killed.

It also has the benefit of preventing Will-O-Wisp and Thunder Wave from mons like Dragapult and Skeledirge while forcing damage onto them.

You can even forgo Swords Dance and just make it an outright lead with Stealth Rock if you wanted to.

Some questions.
Just checking, by edgequake do you mean cleavequake? Mighty Cleave is just better, right?
Sidenote... Which weather lead doesn't get hit hard by it? ()
Are you running booster energy Boulder? Cause otherwise ribombee is a speed tie and welp, you just wasted your taunt.

Unrelated note

Is my new profile pic okay?

 

[Kenpwnchi]

My apologies for detering from the ACTUAL topic being conversed about here. Now that we are a couple of days into DLC2, who do y'all think needs to be banned next? I've noticed that Deo-S has been mentioned a lot. Does seem overwhelming at times. Especially if it's positioned to be a revenge killer during the late game. By that point, the majority of its threats are taken care of, but then that's when it really becomes a problem.

 

[CobsonYaoi]

Here's the Moth + Hands version and here's the Valiant + Boulder version.

Thanks man