Resource SM OU Viability Ranking Thread

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Leo

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MPL Champion
We didn't get an update yesterday so I guess I'll post some of my noms and see if any of them makes it through lol. Most of these are lower rank mons because the higher ranks seem fine to me btw.

B- -> B
This is one I think needs to happen as B- really undersells Hawlucha's potential. In the last month, njnp Rain has cemented itself as the best Rain team atm, getting a lot of usage during olt and then during dugtrio's suspect. Hawlucha plays a big role there because of the pressure it puts onto teams, which need to keep their walls healthy to wall this beast (easier said than done considering how threatening the Rain sweepers core is). It's still weak as fuck but Koko support pretty much guarantees it a free SD, which turns it into a huge threat to weakened teams in the late-game. This makes preparing for Rain harder now because you need to bring both an answer to the Rain sweepers and a Hawlucha check or else your Tangrowth is getting set up on by it. I don't know how its influence in the meta can be compared to Terrakion or Hippowdon or even Mega Gallade. Or even lol Alakazam, which brings me to my next point...

B- -> C or C+
Sash Counter Alakazam hype died ages ago, I'm assuming this mon's still here because the VR council forgot about it because there's no way such an inconsistent revenge killer is ranked so high. There's not much to say about this, nobody really uses it and when it does get used it doesn't really do much.

C+ -> B-
This one's kinda unexpected but I think this mon is better now than it used to be and deserves a higher rank. It provides nice role compression for Stall as a Rock resist, useful to switch into Tyranitar, Wild Charge Koko counter, which I know has been kinda falling off due to Specs hype but is still one of Koko's best sets and a threat to Stalls lacking this or Tangrowth, a Landorus-T switchin after the z-move is consumed, and a Heatran check.

B- -> B
I think this mon can go up another rank. It hasn't exactly gotten better as of late but I think it was originally misplaced because it's such a menace I don't think comparable to other mons residing in B-. I've already made a post about it in the past but basically it's a weaker Volcarona with better coverage options to deal with defensive mons combinations that would normally annoy Volc like Pex+Heatran or Pex+Tyranitar and even harder to revenge kill because of its incredible bulk. Psychic typing is also nice because it can set up on choiced Leles that are all over the place rn and start breaking through teams. Teams that rely on Zygarde or Lando to check it get fucked by early game Searing Shot burns, which makes switching into it very tricky. I understand if it doesn't end up rising tho, I'm just trying to voice my opinon on it and B- isn't exactly a bad ranking for it

On some of the other noms, Terrakion should definitely drop, Magearna can stay in S for now imo, Gary NTL and others pretty much said all I wanted to say about it in their posts. Also no S rank ninja imo, it's not on Landorus-T level and I doubt it will ever be. Hera and Peli should stay where they are, Hera is bad but I dont see any reason to drop it just yet when its still being used in tours and Peli just isnt A
 
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I have these nominations I want to share.
Breeloom to UR. The meta is leaning to offense, and breeloom is deadweight against offense. As a breaker, it gets stopped cold by mega venusaur, not ideal for a breaker. I guess it's good against stall, but why not use a better stall breaker like mega mawile that are both not deadweight against offense.
Togekiss to c-.
Togekisses main niche was to stallbreak, which it was bad at doing thanks to zapdos. Now that stall received a major nerf, togekisses viability has dropped, and so should its rank.
Mega gyarados to c-. From what I understand, this things niche is to break stall. Like togekiss, it's never going to consistently put work against any other team. BPGXMG did this nomination before, but it deserves a second mention.
 

Deleted User 400951

Banned deucer.
I have these nominations I want to share.
Breeloom to UR. The meta is leaning to offense, and breeloom is deadweight against offense. As a breaker, it gets stopped cold by mega venusaur, not ideal for a breaker. I guess it's good against stall, but why not use a better stall breaker like mega mawile that are both not deadweight against offense.
Togekiss to c-.
Togekisses main niche was to stallbreak, which it was bad at doing thanks to zapdos. Now that stall received a major nerf, togekisses viability has dropped, and so should its rank.
Mega gyarados to c-. From what I understand, this things niche is to break stall. Like togekiss, it's never going to consistently put work against any other team. BPGXMG did this nomination before, but it deserves a second mention.
Hey, so I did make that nom, but I have since entirely turned around on it and nommed it to B-. It has had a lot of success on various ho teams as not only does it entirely wreck stall - which is still relevant in this meta - but also as a sweeper that can get many boosts with its good bulk and clean up most teams. It's been getting better with the drop of scarf keldeo and gyara-mega should definitely rise rn.
Not opposed to the other noms - I fully support loom to Ur - but gyara-mega should definitely not drop.
 
Lets plz drop alowak to B, its main niche of being a stallbreaker desapeared with stall itself ( and the rares stalls atm pack mons that can deal with it mor then confortably), Its Lightining Rod set just doesnt see enough use, and its TR niche shouldnt be able to keep it in B+, specially with Landot being everywhere rn, Darks being at a peak and all that kind of things. I just dont see it in the same level of mons like Kingdra or M zam
 

Gary

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RANKING UPDATE

Rises
B+ ---> A-
B ---> B+

B- ---> B


Drops
B- ---> C

  • Magnezone rose because its Steel trapping ability is arguably more useful with Dugtrio gone. Celesteela, Mega Scizor, and Ferrothorn are extremely common atm and all of them are at least used on a team these days. Zone's Sub Z move set allows it to take advantage of most Steel-types as well as trap the likes of Mega Mawile and 1v1 Magearna more efficiently. Zone just pairs very well with a lot of Pokemon atm, such as Mega Diancie, Mega Pinsir, Mega Lopunny, and Kyurem-B.
  • Excadrill is being seen a lot on most HOs for its ability to set up rocks reliably vs most teams thanks to Mold Breaker as well as potentially spinning away opposing leads hazards
  • Hawlucha is still basically standard on a lot of rain builds because of its ability to set up on most rain checks. Nothing has really changed, but the VR council has felt like B- is too low for a Pokemon of Hawlucha's threat level, especially with how terrifying it can be late game vs a lot of offensive builds as well as even bulkier ones because of its great STAB combo. Its also seen some usage on non rain teams because it can also run other Seeds such as Grassy and Psychic Seed
  • Alakazam has been garbage for a while but we kinda just forgot about it. Good luck fitting it on any team in this metagame and good luck tricking someone into clicking a physical move on it in 2017.

Magearna S to A+: most were against this
Mega Sab A- to B+: all disagreed
Magnezone B+ to A-: most agreed
Excadrill B to B+: most agreed but still kinda controversial
Reuniclus B to B+: all disagreed
Hawlucha B- to B/B+: all agreed on B
Terrakion B- to C+: most disagreed
Alakazam B- to C+/C: most said C
Mega Gyara C+ to B-: Most disagreed
Infernape C+ to C: most disagreed


Discussion Slate:

A ---> A+
A ---> A-
B+ ---> B
B ---> B+
C- ---> Unranked
C- ---> Unranked
C- ---> Unranked

Jelq
 
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Deleted User 400951

Banned deucer.
Yay
I think Kartana can see itself in A+ rn for sure. SubSD is coming out swinging, and now this thing is just versatile af. This thing is the best balance breaker rn and good vs stall too with that sheer damage output meaning that even Skarm isn't taking this too well. Definitely on level with our gods like Tran and Gren rn. SubSD is godly.

I'm all for Marowak-Alola falling, I'll just quote Wheitron's post for this:
Lets plz drop alowak to B, its main niche of being a stallbreaker desapeared with stall itself ( and the rares stalls atm pack mons that can deal with it mor then confortably), Its Lightining Rod set just doesnt see enough use, and its TR niche shouldnt be able to keep it in B+, specially with Landot being everywhere rn, Darks being at a peak and all that kind of things. I just dont see it in the same level of mons like Kingdra or M zam
I'd also like to mention that Magearna is running a very nice Fairy Z set over Gigavolt Havoc so Marowak-Alola no longer hard walls.
I'm not certain about zap to A or zardx to b+ as I speak.
As for the mons that are to be UR, UR them all. AV is dead and conk with it, empoleon and buzzwole have disappeared entirely from tours and stuff. The ranks are beginning to stabilize now, so not much to discuss.
 
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good shit!
I support Kartana to A+. This thing is so versatile right now, being able to run a multiple sets like SD FightiniumZ, SD DarkiniumZ, Scarf, and the best right now, SubSD, being able to surprise would-be checks with a coverage move, making it a terror for balance and stall to face. Kartana is doing so good right now in the metagame, deserving a spot in A+.
 
Kartana Foshu deserves A+, just an amazing mon overall, with breaking power and revenge killing abilities that destroy HO, shit is just too good.

Buzzwole is real garbage, havent seen one in ages and for a good reason. Unrank

Empoleon&Conk : Read above

Zard X is really comming to play more often, good wallbreaker, sweeper and def utility mon in general, raise this

I nommed alowak so yeah....

No opinion on zap
 
I have no idea what Buzzwole offers to the metagame compared to some of the other mons around. Ground resist? Too bad, because Lando often uses Supersonic Skystrike, and both Zygarde and Garchomp can use boosted Devastating Drake against it. Dark and Fighting resist? Clef and most of the Tapus outside of Lele (which still murders Buzzwole anyway) already do that and actually provide utility to the team. As a bug/fighting type, you're better off running Mega Heracross as it's in a similar speed tier, but has much better special bulk and hits much harder right off the bat, along with having access to Swords Dance + Close Combat to break fatter teams much more efficiently than lolHammerArm.

Unrank this Duel Monster.
 
So as a person who usually lurks I think I will finally talk. Kartana is very useful rn with sd fight z/grass z being able to break crap even with the occasional dark z to beat zapdos celest and venusaur so I will agree. Zapdos disagree zapdos is still as good as ever and doesn't really like one thing with lele being able to handle it but that's really about it. Alola-Maro agree. Alolan marowak has been a great mon in tr and vs stall but as stall is dropping atm trying to find a good team one of its niche is not very useful or the fact that as a koko check rocks are annoying for it and koko can u turn out with these factors I
Support the drop. Zard X undecided. I haven't seen this thing or played with it so I don't really know a lot about it to make a opinion. empol conk and buzz. I agree with all but conk.
buzzwole and empol I haven't seen in forever or ever do much. Conk I have seen and it does do something so maybe it can stay in c+
 
B ---> B-

  • Kartana is ass.
B- ---> B

  • Kartana is often seen as a low ladder meme
Yoooooo my boy Kartana went from an ass low ladder meme to one of the best mons in the tier. Paper cuts are no joke.

Yes to Alowak dropping:

Its best defensive utility is checking Magearna and Koko, but right now...

252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Koko Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Marowak-Alola: 94-111 (36 - 42.5%) -- 90.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Magearna Twinkle Tackle (195 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Marowak-Alola: 191-225 (73.1 - 86.2%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

It's not a reliable switch-in to either of them. Not to mention that - unlike the CharY/Dugtrio days - the best megas in the tier all cause problems for it.

And more damningly, its niche as a stall breaker has been severely weakened due to the prevalence of Weavile as stall's new trapper.
 
I have no idea what Buzzwole offers to the metagame compared to some of the other mons around. Ground resist? Too bad, because Lando often uses Supersonic Skystrike, and both Zygarde and Garchomp can use boosted Devastating Drake against it. Dark and Fighting resist? Clef and most of the Tapus outside of Lele (which still murders Buzzwole anyway) already do that and actually provide utility to the team. As a bug/fighting type, you're better off running Mega Heracross as it's in a similar speed tier, but has much better special bulk and hits much harder right off the bat, along with having access to Swords Dance + Close Combat to break fatter teams much more efficiently than lolHammerArm.

Unrank this Duel Monster.
If you're going to argue to drop/unrank a mon, at least understand what it does. While yes, it isn't a great check to lando or chomp, but a fat spread (which is the only buzzwole anybody should use, offensive is completely useless, can't break even stuff bc of 4mss, can't switch into stuff bc it's not running enough bulk) takes this from devestating drake guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery. The only 'dark check' you mentioned that actually switches in to relevant darks is fini, and that is still knocked off by weavile and loses to ttar. Buzzwole is the safest switch in in the meta to ttar. Yes, mega heracross can break more effectively than swole, but it has little use defensively, you're comparing apples to oranges here. Meta trends are also in buzzwoles favour, kartana is so scary to face rn and besides the extremely uncommon steelium variants, buzzwole hard walls it, and can ohko back, and as buzzwole is like one of 2 safe switchins to ttar alongside chesnaught, which isn't really that great of a Pokémon, and buzzwole is also a dark resist fat enough to eat hyperspace fury (fears zen but like it's at least some sort of defensive counterplay to that mon). To compare tournament usage of swole compared to other c- mons, in smogtour week 1, the most recent major tour where usage stats were recorded, buzzwole had more usage than anything in c- besides chandy (and this was in dug meta) and shuckle. Anyway if I hadn't made it clear enough I disagree w/ unranking swole, not going in detail but I feel it's a bit too early to rise kart again, undecided on zap, agree w/ dropping awak, rising zard X and unranking conk and empo.

Also if anyone cares here's the spread I use on swole, speed for adamant ttar, attack to ohko kart w/ hammer arm after rocks, 252 in defense instead of 252 in hp since you only really want to come in against physical attackers, does make you a bit easier to revenge but you're mostly forced out by special attackers anyway.


Buzzwole @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 44 HP / 100 Atk / 252 Def / 112 Spe
Impish Nature
- Roost
- Hammer Arm
- Ice Punch
- Poison Jab
 
Charizard x b to b+: Strongly argree.
Charizard s new set is basically unwalllable outside of Tapu fini, which is going down in usage. Not a lot of metagame trends help it but b is definitely too low. Rise it.
Conkelldur to UR: Strongly agree.
AV offense has really fell from its former glory. Conkelldurr wasn't even used that much on AV, so yeah I would UR it.
Alowak to B: Agree
Always still is a very strong wall breaker with decent defensive utility, but with koko running choice specs and magearna running fair in z, and the arena trap ban, B seems appropriate.
Buzzwole to UR: Strongly Agree
I made this nomination before, so yeah, outclassed in everything it can do. Plz UR this pile of garbage.
Empoleon to UR: slightly disagree.
Empoleon still offers role compression with rocks, defog, and bulky steel type. I understand that it's outclassed by other Pokémon and is very team specific
So I wouldn't be devastated if this pokemon was UR.
 
I honestly don’t think these three deserve to be ranked rn. Buzzwole I can sorta see worth using if only for being an alternative to MHera that can run items, but the other two are just memes by this point. I don’t even know what Empoleon ever did for anybody, and Conk is just too slow to operate, especially with OTR sorta dying rn
 

Gary

Can be abrasive at times (no joke)
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I honestly don’t think these three deserve to be ranked rn. Buzzwole I can sorta see worth using if only for being an alternative to MHera that can run items, but the other two are just memes by this point. I don’t even know what Empoleon ever did for anybody, and Conk is just too slow to operate, especially with OTR sorta dying rn
OTR Conk.

Conk's main niche was on Veil not Trick Room. Also OTR usually means that you are abusing your own Trick Room, not someone elses. Aka, OTR Reuniclus, OTR Cofagrigus, etc. Its reasoning for being unranked has to do with Veil dying off significantly and Conk was used during Veil's prime.

Mega Hera is a breaker while Buzzwole is basically an physically defensive tank more than anything. Hera doesn't really have anything to do with its viability despite them being the same type. You would use Mega Hera to break while Buzzwole would be used to solely abuse its resistances and bulk. Empoleon was a decent rocker/defogger that could check some useful threats such as Volcarona, Lele, Suicune, Greninja, etc. Shuca + SR was a cool tech that could lure Zygarde and Lando-t. Its being nommed to drop because it was mainly used as like a very niche glue Pokemon but now it's just not really needed anymore. There are plenty of viable Defoggers, Gren checks aren't really super hard to come by these days, and Emp kinda just invites a lot of really dangerous shit such as Koko, Kyurem-B, and Zone is more common.

But yeah seriously I'd advise having a bit of understanding on a Pokemon's niche before commenting on them. In fact, if you just click on the name of the Pokemon, it will link you to its analysis which will tell you EXACTLY what its niche is in the metagame.

OTR CONK
 
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Kartana A-A+ Agree
I was one of those people who thought of Kartana as a low-ladder meme(unfortunately), so I never used it and faced against a good one for the past months I have been playing OU until last month, and I realized that Kartana might not be a low ladder meme after all. And I have checked the viability thread(aka this thread) and noticed it rising. So I finally decided to try it out, and then I realized how ridiculous this mon is.

Kartana usual set, swords dance+Grassium/Darkium/steelium Z just sweeps teams so easily. I have a certain bias towards Darkium because my team is basically weak against Mega Venusaur and with a Swords Dance boost, it just one hit KOES.

It is incredibly difficult to stop this mon when set up. Back on the day when stall was so good with Dugtrio, Kartana was unable to break through stall for the fear of being trapped by dugtrio. With Dugtrio banned, Kartana has only gotten better, with stall basically nonexistent these days. Being a setup sweeper, the OU doesn't have any unaware users who could reliably check kartana. Unaware Clef is cleanly two hit KOED with smart strike, and that is saying something, as clefable is the best unaware user in the tier. Swords Dance with Beast Boost is simply lethal, Kartana doesn't have enough reliable answers to stop from sweeping, except with something like a taunt user that outspeeds it, the most relevant one being Tapu Koko, which is still one hit Koed by most of kartana's moves after a swords dance boost.

Compared to all of A tier, Kartana is the most consitant and reliable setup sweeper, it simply has too few counters and checks once it is set up. There are only a couple of good special scarfs in the tier, namely Keldeo and Tapu Lele, with Keldeo's Hydro Pump resisting Kartana, but any more from Tapu Lele would one hit KO it, so that is one of the few good answers to stop Kartana from sweeping.

Kartana is just way too lethal and consistent for it to be ranked at a mere A. The tier just has few good counters to it, in conclusion, Kartan should rise to A+.

Edit: My reasoning with Unaware users was simply messed up. I edited it so it now completely makes sense. Sorry for the confusion.
 
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Felixx

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Kartana A-A+ Agree
I was one of those people who thought of Kartana as a low-ladder meme(unfortunately), so I never used it and faced against a good one for the past months I have been playing OU until last month, and I realized that Kartana might not be a low ladder meme after all. And I have checked the viability thread(aka this thread) and noticed it rising. So I finally decided to try it out, and then I realized how ridiculous this mon is.

Kartana usual set, swords dance+Grassium/Darkium/steelium Z just sweeps teams so easily. I have a certain bias towards Darkium because my team is basically weak against Mega Venusaur and with a Swords Dance boost, it just one hit KOES.

It is incredibly difficult to stop this mon when set up. Back on the day when stall was so good with Dugtrio, Unaware clefable was sort of an okay counter because Smart Strike had low base power. Now stall has fallen off, and Quagsire seems like it is the only good unaware user that can be used outside of stall that can stop Kartana. Swords Dance with Beast Boost is simply lethal, Kartana doesn't have enough reliable answers to stop from sweeping, except with something like a taunt user that outspeeds it, the most relevant one being Tapu Koko, which is weak to steel types.

Compared to all of A tier, Kartana is the most consitant and reliable setup sweeper, it simply has too few counters and checks once it is set up. There are only a couple of good special scarfs in the tier, namely Keldeo and Tapu Lele, with Keldeo's Hydro Pump resisting Kartana, but any more from Tapu Lele would one hit KO it, so that is one of the few good answers to stop Kartana from sweeping.

Kartana is just way too lethal and consistent for it to be ranked at a mere A. The tier just has few good counters to it, in conclusion, Kartan should rise to A+
Steel is neutral to Koko, Koko isnt weak to it, but yeah

Kartana: A - A+ : Agree

Kartana is absolutely amazing as a breaker, and its good defensive typing and good defense (dogshit sp def) allows it to survive priority from pinsir to finish it off and use the passive grass types like ferrothorn and tang as set up fodder, even defensive lando can be smacked with an early game leaf blade so that kartana breaks past it later with ease, the large amount of things kartana breaks is amazing, the two usable unaware walls get smacked hard by its dual stab, skarm isnt a reliable check so stall gets destroyed if its darkium and zap has to switch into rocks, shit like bulu have to spam superpower just so this monster dosent get a free switch, its Timid unset is absolute cancer for offensive teams, and scarf is still pretty decent, a scarf kart was used on Gondro HO. Overall, amazing breaker in current metagame.
 
It is incredibly difficult to stop this mon when set up. Back on the day when stall was so good with Dugtrio, Unaware clefable was sort of an okay counter because Smart Strike had low base power. Now stall has fallen off, and Quagsire seems like it is the only good unaware user that can be used outside of stall that can stop Kartana. Swords Dance with Beast Boost is simply lethal, Kartana doesn't have enough reliable answers to stop from sweeping, except with something like a taunt user that outspeeds it, the most relevant one being Tapu Koko, which is weak to steel types.
252/252+ Bold Clef is comfortably 2HKOed by Smart Strike.

Did you just say Quagsire can stop Kartana? The mon that's 4x weak to Kartana's best STAB?

I'm honestly asking because your wording is kinda confusing.

Compared to all of A tier, Kartana is the most consitant and reliable setup sweeper, it simply has too few counters and checks once it is set up. There are only a couple of good special scarfs in the tier, namely Keldeo and Tapu Lele, with Keldeo's Hydro Pump resisting Kartana, but any more from Tapu Lele would one hit KO it, so that is one of the few good answers to stop Kartana from sweeping.
Kartana is great and all, but its SD set is revenged by just about anything faster than it. Non-physical Koko, Scarf Lele, Scarf Keldeo (if Kartana's taken some chip), either Greninja, Scarf Lati, the list goes on. Compare that to Volcarona, who's able to boost its speed to outpace potential revenge killers.

I think you're overselling its sweeping capabilities overall. Before Z-Move + SD can sweep a team, all of those threats need to be eliminated, and quite a few of them are super common mons.
 
Man, Kartana's certainly evolved recently to say the very least. A breaker that has the combination of an absurd Attack stat, a solid Speed tier allowing it to creep everything up to and including Keldeo, and Swords Dance plus the ability to set up on a lot of threats in the tier really gives it a niche in the tier compared to the likes of the rest of A+. Heck, nothing in the tier in general can quite do what Kartana does.

This thing's firepower after getting a Swords Dance boost off, especially with any of its dedicated Z-move nukes, more than justifies a rise to A+ in my opinion. Its good Speed and hilariously powerful ability that lets it effectively snowball out of control as soon as it eats something alive are just icing on the cake at this point.
 
252/252+ Bold Clef is comfortably 2HKOed by Smart Strike.

Did you just say Quagsire can stop Kartana? The mon that's 4x weak to Kartana's best STAB?

I'm honestly asking because your wording is kinda confusing.



Kartana is great and all, but its SD set is revenged by just about anything faster than it. Non-physical Koko, Scarf Lele, Scarf Keldeo (if Kartana's taken some chip), either Greninja, Scarf Lati, the list goes on. Compare that to Volcarona, who's able to boost its speed to outpace potential revenge killers.

I think you're overselling its sweeping capabilities overall. Before Z-Move + SD can sweep a team, all of those threats need to be eliminated, and quite a few of them are super common mons.
For the most part you're correct; Swords Dance Kartana isn't breaking teams with faster offensive Pokemon and Choice Scarf users on its own reliably at all. However, this isn't really the purpose of SD Kartana in the first place. Swords Dance Kartana is primarily used as a breaker of bulkier and certain balance teams thanks to its huge Attack stat and access to coverage moves to break through would-be checks and counters. If it needs to annoy offense, the Choice Scarf set is an option. I think what you're ignoring here is that every Pokemon has certain checks and counters, but that doesn't necessarily mean it shouldn't rise.

Now moving on from your post and more about Kartana overall (others have already touched on a lot of what I wanted to say so I'll keep this brief). The thing is just super versatile atm and its ability to splash onto a number of offensive and balanced teams easily is the reason why it should rise. It runs multiple viable sets, which essentially allows it to choose its matchups and how it adds to its teams. Choice Scarf sets can still be quite difficult for more offensive teams to switch into, and they also offer solid role compression between revenge killing and removing hazards to support teammates. Furthermore, Kartana's STAB combination gives it a very good matchup versus common types of teams such as Rain and Aurora Veil, although the latter is dying off. Swords Dance sets on the other hand are excellent at messing with more defensive builds. They can beat both of the common unaware users (though you lose to Clef if you choose to forgo Smart Strike), and generally can put in a lot of work versus stall. Furthermore, the rise of Darkinium Z and SubSD sets makes Kartana far more unpredictable and difficult to prepare for without the use of multiple dedicated answers, and classic Steelium Z sets are as good as ever. Kartana should go to A+.
 
Now moving on from your post and more about Kartana overall (others have already touched on a lot of what I wanted to say so I'll keep this brief). The thing is just super versatile atm and its ability to splash onto a number of offensive and balanced teams easily is the reason why it should rise. It runs multiple viable sets, which essentially allows it to choose its matchups and how it adds to its teams. Choice Scarf sets can still be quite difficult for more offensive teams to switch into, and they also offer solid role compression between revenge killing and removing hazards to support teammates. Furthermore, Kartana's STAB combination gives it a very good matchup versus common types of teams such as Rain and Aurora Veil, although the latter is dying off. Swords Dance sets on the other hand are excellent at messing with more defensive builds. They can beat both of the common unaware users (though you lose to Clef if you choose to forgo Smart Strike), and generally can put in a lot of work versus stall. Furthermore, the rise of Darkinium Z and SubSD sets makes Kartana far more unpredictable and difficult to prepare for without the use of multiple dedicated answers, and classic Steelium Z sets are as good as ever. Kartana should go to A+.
I agree with everything you say and you definitly made clear why Kartana is one of the better mons in Rank A rn and I dont think I have anything to add to that.

However i still disagree with a rise of Kartana to A+.

This is due to the fact that imo all the Mons in A+ really define the Meta. Mons like Greninja, Toxapex, Zygarde, Celesteela etc fit on almost any team and there are litteraly no drawbacks using them. I just do not see Kartana beeing on that level (look at usage stats too).

I think it is fine where it is in A next to a very comparable mon in Latios. Both having a Scarf and a Breaker set and both having acces to Defog. Latios though is a much better Scarfer than Kartana being able to revenge kill much more (I guess Scarf Kartana iis more of a sweeper but still) and having Utility in Trick and Memento. Also scarf Kartana seems useless to me against fatter teams as it has like 10000 switch-ins (Lando, Celesteela, Scizor, Toxapex, Tangrowth, Heatran etc) while Lati can cripple walls with Trick. Also Lati has a much better defensive typing and better defensive stats in general, has reliable recovery and is arguably the better Defoger. Its Wallbreaking capabilties are also pretty decent (CM or Specs) but ofc far from being as good as Kartanas. Eventhough this comparison is probably pretty bad i hope you can see where I am going.

Anyways i just dont think Kartana is good enough to be in A+ yet. Like nearly nothing switches into it at +2 but thats the same with Tapu Bulu (which trades the Speed for better coverage) and thats in A too. (Kartana still relies on SD cuz it cant break shit without it which gives the ability to pivot around it. Most faster Mons revenge it and it cant break past Skarm, Celesteela or Heatran without Z-Fighing or fighting coverage in general while it needs Z-Dark for MVenu and Zapdos.
+3 252 Atk Kartana Night Slash vs. 212 HP / 44 Def Heatran: 223-263 (59.3 - 69.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+3 252 Atk Kartana Night Slash vs. 252 HP / 132+ Def Celesteela: 192-226 (48.2 - 56.7%) -- 38.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Kartana Black Hole Eclipse (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 132+ Def Celesteela: 306-361 (76.8 - 90.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery)


Conclusion: Kartana = very good but not A+ good.
 
I want to devote this post to show or make people remember how threatening Scarf Kartana is even to bulkier teams with the correct teammates. Before I start I agree with Kartana going A+ and the Scarfset should be A.

I used SD Kartana alot and it is a superb wallbreaker and it can bypass any defensive counterplay with the appropriate Z-Move and can potentially get multiple kills with Sub while offering safe SDs against Toxapex Scald with some Bulkinvestment. But Kartanas strong Leafblades are already very hard to switch into for offensive teams. To aid versus defensive teams, mons such as
Magnezone to trap Steeltypes
Band TTar for Zapdos and Mega Venu
Bulu for Grassy Terrain and to weaken other Grassresists. Grassy Terrain+Scarf Kartana:
-1 252 Atk Kartana Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 216+ Def Landorus-Therian in Grassy Terrain: 153-180 (40 - 47.1%)
252 Atk Kartana Leaf Blade vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Mawile in Grassy Terrain: 162-192 (64.5 - 76.4%)
252 Atk Kartana Leaf Blade vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Mawile-Mega in Grassy Terrain: 117-138 (46.6 - 54.9%)


My thoughtprocess against a fat team with Scarf Kartana:
1) trap Mega Scizor with Eject Button on the U-Turn into Magnezone HP Fire (I recommend Electrium Z Magnezone to kill Mega Mawile, too and to have ensurance against Celesteela)
2) weaken Zapdos and keep up Rocks
3) win
The only bad matchups I remember is Magnezone forcing me to never not Sacred Sword and Ditto.

Examples:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-620811063
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-620802162

I made this post because people writing here seem to consider Scarf Kartana only to be good against frail, offensive teams.
 
I agree with everything you say and you definitly made clear why Kartana is one of the better mons in Rank A rn and I dont think I have anything to add to that.

However i still disagree with a rise of Kartana to A+.

This is due to the fact that imo all the Mons in A+ really define the Meta. Mons like Greninja, Toxapex, Zygarde, Celesteela etc fit on almost any team and there are litteraly no drawbacks using them. I just do not see Kartana beeing on that level (look at usage stats too).

I think it is fine where it is in A next to a very comparable mon in Latios. Both having a Scarf and a Breaker set and both having acces to Defog. Latios though is a much better Scarfer than Kartana being able to revenge kill much more (I guess Scarf Kartana iis more of a sweeper but still) and having Utility in Trick and Memento. Also scarf Kartana seems useless to me against fatter teams as it has like 10000 switch-ins (Lando, Celesteela, Scizor, Toxapex, Tangrowth, Heatran etc) while Lati can cripple walls with Trick. Also Lati has a much better defensive typing and better defensive stats in general, has reliable recovery and is arguably the better Defoger. Its Wallbreaking capabilties are also pretty decent (CM or Specs) but ofc far from being as good as Kartanas. Eventhough this comparison is probably pretty bad i hope you can see where I am going.

Anyways i just dont think Kartana is good enough to be in A+ yet. Like nearly nothing switches into it at +2 but thats the same with Tapu Bulu (which trades the Speed for better coverage) and thats in A too. (Kartana still relies on SD cuz it cant break shit without it which gives the ability to pivot around it. Most faster Mons revenge it and it cant break past Skarm, Celesteela or Heatran without Z-Fighing or fighting coverage in general while it needs Z-Dark for MVenu and Zapdos.
+3 252 Atk Kartana Night Slash vs. 212 HP / 44 Def Heatran: 223-263 (59.3 - 69.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+3 252 Atk Kartana Night Slash vs. 252 HP / 132+ Def Celesteela: 192-226 (48.2 - 56.7%) -- 38.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Kartana Black Hole Eclipse (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 132+ Def Celesteela: 306-361 (76.8 - 90.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery)


Conclusion: Kartana = very good but not A+ good.
Latios and kartana aren't really comparable outside of the pourpose of their sets, and even then, scarf kartana and scarf latios function completely differently outside of the same item. Scarf latios is used to revenge kill, while scarf kartana is used as anti offense for teams with solid counter play to set up sweepers.
Kartana is also a way better breaker latios. Kartana, with darkinium z, is impossible to wall with a swords dance boost, so ATM the only reliable counter play to kartana is forcing it out with a faster special attacker.
Choice specs latios, on the other hand, gets pretty much no usage outside of lower ladder memes, as it is stopped cold by magearna and tyranitar, and relies heavily on prediction on the Omnipresent bulky steel types.
Finally, defog kartana is more of a nessecity than a luxury, as kartana is much more at home slicing through fatter teams than blowing away hazards, while defog is one of the main reasons to use latios.
This is not meant to be offensive or rude in any way, (quite the contrary), but I feel your latios vs kartana isn't really the best comparison.
 
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