[SM] CAP Metagame Discussion

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cbrevan

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SM CAP Metagame Discussion

With the recent release of Sun/Moon, the CAP metagame is going to be changing drastically due to plethora of new defensive and offensive threats introduced. The [Gen 7] CAP ladder has been implemented on Pokemon Showdown!, so we can still test our predictions about how the metagame will fare. Use this thread to discuss anything relating to the SM CAP metagame, from potential cores you want to try to team builds you think will be effective. If its related to the SM CAP Metagame, chances are this is a good place to post it. Keep in mind that this thread is solely for SM CAP metagame discussion, and should not be used to discuss any other format, may that be CAP Doubles or ORAS CAP.

In the interest of sparking discussion, some possible topics for discussion include:
  • Team and teach archetype discussion. Have you been dying to discuss stall, hyper offense, or balanced teams for the SM CAP meta? What about Sticky Web or Trick Room? Playstyles of all sorts are welcome to be discussed.
  • Teams you've built and tested or plan on testing. This is a good place to showcase your teams without going through an RMT.
  • General discussion about Pokemon you plan on using, such as good sets you've theorymonned or even topics such as "should x mon be running x move over y move?".
The 22 existing CAP Pokemon are what separate the CAP Metagame from any other metagame available, so here is a quick list of the CAP pokemon for reference, listed by order of creation.
Syclant
Ice / Bug
Compound Eyes / Mountaineer
HP 70 / Atk 116 / Def 70 / SpA 114 / SpD 64 / Spe 121 / BST 555

Revenankh Otherwise known as the best CAP mon
Ghost / Fighting
Shed Skin / Air Lock
HP 90 / Atk 105 / Def 90 / SpA 65 / SpD 110 / Spe 65 / BST 525

Pyroak
Fire / Grass
Rock Head / Battle Armor
HP 120 / Atk 70 / Def 105 / SpA 95 / SpD 90 / Spe 60 / BST 540

Fidgit
Poison / Ground
Persistent / Vital Spirit
HP 95 / Atk 76 / Def 109 / SpA 90 / SpD 80 / Spe 105 / BST 555

Stratagem
Rock
Levitate / Technician
HP 90 / Atk 60 / Def 65 / SpA 120 / SpD 70 / Spe 130 / BST 535

Arghonaut
Water / Fighting
Unaware
HP 105 / Atk 110 / Def 95 / SpA 70 / SpD 100 /Spe 75 / BST 555

Kitsunoh
Steel / Ghost
Frisk / Limber
HP 80 / Atk 103 / Def 85 / SpA 55 / SpD 80 / Spe 110 / BST 513

Cyclohm
Electric / Dragon
Shield Dust / Static
HP 108 / Atk 60 / Def 118 / SpA 112 / SpD 70 / Spe 80 / BST 548

Colossoil
Dark / Ground
Rebound / Guts
HP 133 / Atk 122 / Def 72 / SpA 71 / SpD 72 / Spe 95 / BST 565

Krilowatt
Electric / Water
Trace / Magic Guard
HP 151 / Atk 84 / Def 73 / SpA 83 / SpD 74 / Spe 105 / BST 570

Voodoom
Fighting / Dark
Volt Absorb / Lightning Rod
HP 90 / Atk 85 / Def 80 / SpA 105 / SpD 80 / Spe 110 / BST 550

Tomohawk
Flying / Fighting
Intimidate / Prankster / Justified
HP 105 / Atk 60 / Def 90 / SpA 115 / SpD 80 / Spe 85 / BST 535

Necturna
Grass / Ghost
Forewarn / Telepathy
HP 64 / Atk 120 / Def 100 / SpA 85 / SpD 120 / Spe 81 / BST 570

Mollux
Fire / Poison
Dry Skin / Illuminate
HP 95 / Atk 45 / Def 83 / SpA 131 / SpD 105 / Spe 76 / BST 535

Aurumoth
Bug / Psychic
Weak Armor / No Guard / Illusiom
HP 110 / Atk 120 / Def 99 / SpA 117 / SpD 60 / Spe 94 / BST 600

Malaconda
Dark / Grass
Harvest / Infiltrator
HP 115 / Atk 100 / Def 60 / SpA 40 / SpD 130 / Spe 55 / BST 500

Cawmodore
Steel / Flying
Intimidate / Volt Absorb / Big Pecks
HP 50 / Atk 92 / Def 130 / SpA 65 / SpD 75 / Spe 118 / BST 530

Volkraken
Water / Fire
Analytic / Infiltrator / Pressure
HP 100 / Atk 45 / Def 80 / SpA 135 / SpD 100 / Spe 95 / BST 555

Plasmanta
Electric / Poison
Storm Drain / Vital Spirit / Telepathy
HP 60 / Atk 57 / Def 119 / SpA 131 / SpD 98 / Spe 100 / BST 565

Naviathan
Water / Steel
Water Veil / Heatproof / Light Metal
HP 103 / Atk 110 / Def 90 / SpA 95 / SpD 65 / Spe 97 / BST 560

Crucibelle
Rock / Poison
Regenerator / Mold Breaker / Liquid Ooze
HP 106 / Atk 105 / Def 65 / Spa 75 / SpD 85 / Spe 104 / BST 540

Crucibelle-Mega
Rock / Poison
Magic Guard
HP 106 / Atk 135 / Def 75 / Spa 85 / SpD 125 / Spe 114 / BST 640

Kerfluffle
Fairy / Fighting
Natural Cure / Aroma Veil / Friend Guard
HP 84 / Atk 78 / Def 86 / Spa 115 / SpD 88 / Spe 119 / BST 570
 
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From what I've seen in Uncharted Territory, it seems that Malaconda will receive a decent buff with the help of Tapu Bulu and Torkoal. In addition, Revenankh could become outclassed by Marshadow once it officially releases. At least it's bulkier than the shadow cutie, even if it requires boosting.

Now, what did Voodoom get from this transition? An immunity to Prankster-boosted status, which is not much. A lot of these CAPs will benefit from at least one of Weather or Terrain.

In regards to Z-Crystals, Cawmodore and Kerfluffle will appreciate the Normalium and Darkinium Z in tandem with their respective favorite moves: Belly Drum and Parting Shot. Kerfluffle will be a beast this time around.
 

snake

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In regards to Z-Crystals, Cawmodore and Kerfluffle will appreciate the Normalium and Darkinium Z in tandem with their respective favorite moves: Belly Drum and Parting Shot. Kerfluffle will be a beast this time around.
Normalium-Z doesn't get consumed, so Cawmodore has to rely on Drill Peck over Acrobatics (it still hits like a truck, but a 27.27% decrease in power makes Sitrus Berry more appealing. On the flip side, Cawmodore can use unboosted Drill Peck to hit switch-ins without setting up, and then set up much later in the match.

I'm very skeptical of Darkinum Z on Kerfluffle though, since it needs a Life Orb to achieve many of the KOes it was intended to achieve. Additionally, Kerfluffle gained another hard counter: Toxapex. While Hidden Power Ground can still hit it for a decent amount of damage, and Taunt can shut it down, Kerfluffle is still hit pretty hard with Toxapex's Poison-type moves.

Well GF gave us the biggest "screw you" to Colossoil since Landorus-T in the form of Tapu Bulu. We might see a rise of U-turn on Colossoil sets to adapt to it. Tapu Bulu might seem a little underwhelming given that it doesn't have access to Play Rough (why GF why??) but it does get Zen Headbutt, which lets it get past Tomohawk and Mollux to an extent.

Also, Tapu Lele + Aurumoth. Scarf Volkraken is going to be as good as ever, especially to check +1 Aurumoth, though it too gained Toxapex as a hard counter. Baleful Bunker to punish its U-turn y/n

I'm really interested in Celesteela as a mixed attacker/tank, but I'm out of time for now. Can't wait to get on PS! to talk about it in chat/PMs with everyone!
 
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emma

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Pyroak seems a lot better now walling 3/4 of the Tapus. Voodoom got even worse as it can't touch any faries, loses to Pheromosa and Buzzwhole (two mons that are going to be great imo) and its only buff was immune to Prankster Status which doesn't even help it much :[ Celesteela is a great check to Colo/Lando which the great Steel/Flying Typing, Leech Seed, and free 120 Heavy Slam. Xurkitree also looks really really nice as a Scarfer and check to Tomohawk. I will make Bewear work as its one of the coolest mons ever! Overall looking forward to SM CAP :]
 

LucarioOfLegends

Master Procraster
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Before I begin, I just want to say that SM cap looks really fun and Mollux will become an awesome Mon in rain due to Pelipper's buff.

I honestly think, with all these new additions, Crucible might really struggle this Gen. Ground types are still not much of a threat, but the influx of strong Fighting and Steel types will really prove troublesome. Celesteela specifically will be really hard for it, as it can switch into everything but Low Kick fairly easy, and KO with Heavy Slam or Earthquake. Kartana also can deal with her, as it out speeds Base form normally and can easily beat it with Smart Strike. Pheramosa and Buzzwole are also notable checks, as the former out speeds it and the latter can take a hit, and both can KO with Fighting STAB.
 
Im going to post all the knowledge I've learned from binging sun and moon. Which isn't a lot but have at it :D.

From what I've gathered from play testing and talking with others weather will once again be a dominate force in the CAP Metagame, some might consider it the closest thing we've had to Gen 5 perma weather. With the addition of alola ninetales and slush rush, hail is looking like a decent play style considering how hard it hits some of the newly added Pokemon and the fact that you no long need to run Abomasnow which in my opinion was frat awful in cap.

Sticking with the theme of weather the Lycanroc-Midday will also be quite interesting to say the least. On paper in a sandstorm Lycanroc-Midday destroys a majority of the "popular" CAP pokemon not to mention is out speeds and kills the only other real sand abuser Excadrill quite easily. Also with its access to sword dance give its a nice boost allowing it to deal huge chunks of damage. With its decent move pool including moves like brick break and fire fang Lycanroc-Midday and do some serious damage once boosted. Lycanroc-Midday also has access to one-ish priority moves in the forms of sucker punch and accelerock. I say one-ish because I'm not fully sure how often accelerock goes first yet or how it actually works if its RNG, or if there is a actual fixed percentile, like accelerock has a 63% chance of going first, but all and all I'd list this move under a more gimmicky fourth slot move for Lyncanroc-Midday. I'll include a some damage calcs just for fun. This seem to be Celesteela and Toxapex 2 out of 5 current top walls used in the meta.
  • 252 Atk Life Orb Lycanroc-Midday Fire Fang vs. 232 HP / 100 Def Celesteela: 151-179 (38.4 - 45.5%) -- 12.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
  • +2 252 Atk Life Orb Lycanroc-Midday Fire Fang vs. 232 HP / 100 Def Celesteela: 299-354 (76 - 90%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (The Celesteela spread was passed to be by one of my good friends Tom
  • 252 Atk Life Orb Lycanroc-Midday Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 207-243 (131.8 - 154.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
  • 252 Atk Life Orb Lycanroc-Midday Brick Break vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 575-678 (309.1 - 364.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
The Set I most likely see people running for Lycanroc-Midday is as follows

Lycanroc @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Stone Edge
- Swords Dance
- Brick Break
- Fire Fang/Sucker Punch/ Accelerock

Now focusing on one of CAP's more premier stars, Colossoil. Who didn't really enjoy the move to Gen 7 as much as others. I predict Colossoil losing its place as one of the top CAP mons because of Gamefreak deciding to spam Gen 7 with a crazy amount of fighting/fairy types. Also Guts seems like a move mandatory ability with all newly added pokemon able to spread status effects and the rise in of popularity of the medicore water/flying duo of Pelipper and Mantine will only make live for Colossoil more difficult.

I also foresee CAP's other star pupil Tomohawk leading towards a more semi offensive build but thats just my personal opinion based on meta trends.

Voodoom still sucks

Last but not least call me crazy but specs Fidgit (seriously)???

Dueces
 
Since Rock seems to remain an offensive typing, is Mountaineer Syclant still useful? Syclant still outspeeds Lycanroc-Day if it doesn't pack priority, but does that even matter anymore? Both of the are pretty frail, but Syclant is even less bulky due to its Ice typing. We all know how bad Ice is in Pokémon.
 
Who decided it was a good idea to give Naviathan splash. With the reveal that Z-Splash raises attack three stages I expect a strong Physical presence from Naviathan this generation.
Edit: Thankfully it has extremely lackluster physical stab, but still with a 110 base attack that will hit very hard.
 
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Since Rock seems to remain an offensive typing, is Mountaineer Syclant still useful? Syclant still outspeeds Lycanroc-Day if it doesn't pack priority, but does that even matter anymore? Both of the are pretty frail, but Syclant is even less bulky due to its Ice typing. We all know how bad Ice is in Pokémon.
I was talking mainly about Lycanroc-Day in terms of it being in sand thus outspeeding, but faced when against a sylcant one on one, that would come down to more mind games and the likelihood of your opponent having accelerock and it moving first. And while taking about sylcant it could face a reduce in usage because with the rise in fairies this gen we could also see a counter rise in steel usage which wouldn't help sylcants case.
 

Drapionswing

Eating it up, YUMMY!
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I think the talon nerf is definitely gonna have a big effect on the meta.

A nice offensive check to such a wide range of mons(aurumoth, tomohawk, kerfluffle, lopunny and mega medi for example) has left us. I think offensive teams will still be able to deal with these mons but the range of mons will definitely not be in the same degree as talon's hit list.
 
I think the talon nerf is definitely gonna have a big effect on the meta.

A nice offensive check to such a wide range of mons(aurumoth, tomohawk, kerfluffle, lopunny and mega medi for example) has left us. I think offensive teams will still be able to deal with these mons but the range of mons will definitely not be in the same degree as talon's hit list.
Very true indeed Drapion with the Talonflame nerf it wouldn't really threaten any of those mons as much as it used to as you already stated, but it could still be a viable Caw check. That being said I predict a rise in the already decent usage of Volkraken and maybe Volcanion too because of the new mons added Gen 7 and I also think we should consider flash cannon as a viable 3rd/4th move slot on Volk depending on the set because of the all the newly added fairy types.
 

Drapionswing

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Very true indeed Drapion with the Talonflame nerf it wouldn't really threaten any of those mons as much as it used to as you already stated, but it could still be a viable Caw check. That being said I predict a rise in the already decent usage of Volkraken and maybe Volcanion too because of the new mons added Gen 7 and I also think we should consider flash cannon as a viable 3rd/4th move slot on Volk depending on the set because of the all the newly added fairy types.
With the new water mons like tapu fini, toxapex, wishiwashi all potentially being in the meta (wishiwashi and tapu fini are less likely to stay ou imo) I think that Volcanions battle with Volkraken for usage will definitely be eased as it can handle these pokemon a lot easier without losing out on a move slot. Also things are a lot slower in this gen meaning that volkrakens offensive targets isn't as huge as Volcanions bulky hitlist thus strengthening it's viability.

Speaking of Cawm checks Celesteela is a pretty good one, I'm too lazy to get calcs but someone in chat the other day (I think it was Ria) showed that it takes like 50% from drain punch and I'm assuming KO's back with flamethrower.
 

LucarioOfLegends

Master Procraster
is a CAP Contributor
Since the removal of Talonflame, there are a ton of threats that go unchecked in the Meta. And while people may think I've gone crazy, Staraptor may begin to fill the role of suicidal BirdSpam. While Staraptor isn't as fast as T-flame, I instead has sheer Reckless power, which can nuke about everything. It also has a better type than ol' Burny Bird, meaning it can switch into stuff easier. And while it's currently walled by Aegislash, that will soon not be a problem.
 

cbrevan

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Gen 7 Custom Games just went live on Showdown earlier tonight, so you can now properly test your SM CAP teams against other players. As always, come to the CAP Project room on Pokemon Showdown! to find people to test with. I'll be posting in this thread as I give the meta a spin, and I hope to see what everyone else discovers here as well!
 

LucarioOfLegends

Master Procraster
is a CAP Contributor
As of about half an hour ago, Aegislash is officially banned. That means Fairy, Fighting and, most importantly, Psychic types will be under a lot less pressure. While this means that Pheramosa runs free, some new options can now be discovered.
 

cbrevan

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I've had the chance to test some mons and teams over the last couple days, so I'll lay out my general thoughts about some of the stuff I've tried.

Scarf Crucibelle
I've been running this on a couple teams as a blanket check of sorts to various setup sweepers and all the fast frail mons common in the tier right. The set I've been running is Head Smash / Gunk Shot / U-turn / Trick which is your basic STAB moves U-turn set from last gen. Head Smash and Gunk Shot are needed to give Crucibelle bite to its attack and I think the miss chance is acceptable over Rock Slide or Poison Jab to ensure you can get kills later in the match. Regenorator + U-turn is as good as always and helps offset the recoil damage from Head Smash, plus there's not exactly a lot of Sub users that need a Scarf user to check them. The biggest draw to Scarf Crucibelle is its speed tier which lets you check Mega Charizhard X, Aurumoth, and the Tapus, as well as other stuff like Automize Celesteela, Z Waternium Manaphy, and even other popular scarfers such as Genesect and Tapu Lele. As a bonus Trick lets you neuter Tomohawk and Toxapex to help you snap balance teams in half. Overally really good mon that likes Mega Gross not being on every team.

Buzzhole
Buzzwole is a really cool Colo/Ground check that can snowball games against slower teams if it can get a kill in. Movepool is wide enough to pick and choose what you can beat and Roost/Leech Life lets come in a couple times in match. I've tried it out with some speed control and its pretty much a game ender if the opponent doesn't have a defensive Tomohawk.

Cawmodore
Cawmodore is still pretty good with Tapu Koko and the like punishing Cyclohm relatively hard right now and it can break through Mantine and Toxapex which are popular right now. It has trouble with Celesteela and Tapu Lele + faster Pokemon but that's stuff you can lure and remove reliably through Z moves and Dugtrio and the like. Sub Salac is still a cool set for breaking past offensive teams relying on a Scarfer to check it.

Mollux
Mollux feels like a massive gem right now because its a solid blanket check to most of the Tapus, Phermosa, Toxapex, and Mantine. I like to think of it as CAP's version of Alolan Marowak except better in every way while also providing hazard control through Stealth Rock and Rapid Spin. I wouldn't bother with Scarf Mollux (not like I did before) as there isn't any relevant threats for it to target and the dire need to have a Cawmodore killer is lessened as you can get away with Tapu Lele plus a fast Pokemon on offense now.

Tapu Koko
This is a really great mon that falls right into the voltturn playstyle everyone is obsessed about in this meta. It's powerful and fast enough to reliably spam Volt Switch until it can start ending lives with Thunderbolt later in the match. The fact that it can run Roost just makes it a great check to fat waters such as Toxapex and Mantine which seem to wall a lot in the meta currently. Koko pairs very well with Genesect/Greninja/Scarf Crucibelle to just steal momentum out from under the opponent while blowing holes through their team at the same time.

Genesect

Scarf set is good at revenge killing stuff and wearing down teams as always and is a good partner for a lot of offensive cores. I'd like to give Choice Band ago as that set sounds a bit disgusting spamming +1 Banded U-turns everywhere and then cleaning with +1 Extreme Speed later.

Greninja
I haven't tried it out much but I've seen it blow through a couple teams already. Aegis being banned is really nice for it as it has a lot of leeway when it comes to its moveset now. For the most part regular Protean Greninja is better than Ash Greninja just because of the raw damage output it can put out, but there might be a place for Ash Greninja in beating Tapu Koko 1v1.

Kerfluffle
Our favorite pillow monster is still a good mon to use but has a lot of trouble handling the common Scarfers and Tapu Koko at the moment. The only set I've tried is Z Darknium Parting Shot which is really good at sustain win cons throughout the course of the match. Z Parting Shot lets you set up a second sweep with Cawmodore and Aurumoth or just refill one of your hard hitters in Mega Metagross and Tapu Koko. I'd imagine the Taunt set faces a lot of competition with Tapu Koko now which can stallbreak a lot more cleanly with Natures Madness. As a side note Toxapex is really annoying for it so a Kerfluffle + Dugtrio core is nice to work around that.

Dugtrio
Speaking of Dugtrio, it's a very good mon in the meta right now. There's a couple more targets for it in CAP such as Cyclohm, Mollux, and Mega Crucibelle that make it a good choice for a number of offensive cores. I'm sure Dugtrio will just get more obscene as time goes on and people work out what to trap and use with it more.

Toxapex
This thing is fat and annoying and blanket checks a whole lot of mons currently. Not much to say about it other than make sure you run a solid breaker for it such as the Tapus or Landorus.

Celesteela

I haven't had a chance to use it much but its a pretty versatile mon all things considered and can potentially snowball games with Automize and Beast Boost. There's some very good hard stops to it in CAP in Cyclohm and Pyroak so I need to test it more before I can say how great of a mon it is.

Aurumoth
The riskiest mon in the meta is still a complete monster and Illusion is sill a broken ability. The only thing risky about it is that its speed tier leaves it revenge killed by Tapu Lele and Genesect. I've only used a vanilla QD set as the synergy it has with Tapu Lele is kind of insane in that it's pretty much GG if it can get a QD up under Psychic Terrain and the opponent has no way to outspeed it. This is another mon I only expect to see more and more of as people optimize cores and teams and the like.

Tomohawk
Godhawk is still a great blanket check to half the physical attackers in the meta while bringing a lot of utility to the table. Haze is still good in preventing blowouts from the likes of Landorus and Manaphy and is a nice safety button to click before your team gets overwhelmed. It's still the best Colossoil check in the meta and also checks Tapu Bulu and Buzzwole well. I find myself wanting to run Earth Power on it most of the time due to all the Tapu Kokos, Toxapex, and Steel-types in the meta, but I could see Aura Sphere as an option to prevent Celesteela from had walling it.

Pinsir
Pinsir is a nice win condition that can get past Toxapex and Mantine but struggles with Tapu Koko being popular. Close Combat can let it beat Celesteela 1v1 and the lack of Cyclohm everywhere makes it a good coverage move right now. Mega Evo buff is really good for it but like Cawmodore it has trouble with Tapu Lele + fast Pokemon.

Phermosa

Phermosa is a bit crazy in that it can snowball games against offense like no other, but there's a handful of solid checks to it and its frailty really holds it back. There's a ton of cores to abuse the small amount of checks it has and fits in well with Voltturn and Tapu Koko. It also has crazy syngery with Tapu Lele to just completely roll offense once it gets going.

Alolan Ninetails
This is a actually pretty cool as it's speed buff lets it check stuff like Landorus and Keldeo which it sure couldn't do before. I haven't made a hail team based around it yet but I can say Aurora Veil is a very good move that lets you setup almost anything and gives frail mons such as Hoopa-U and Landorus the breathing room they need to get kills against offense easier.

Landorus
Landorus is still a monster that's biggest problem is that it has to pick and choose which mons it allows to check it. Gravity lets you blow past Celsteela + Toxapex cores easily and Stone Edge is equally rough on Mantine. Rock Polish is a cool set for punishing offensive teams relying on Landorus's low speed to check it and turns Tapu Koko, Greninja, and every relevant Scarfer into another body in the bag.

Mega Metagross
Mega Metagross is really nice right now as its fourth move is largely interchangeable to let it beat Celesteela and other defensive checks. Like Cawmodore it appreciates the lack of Cyclohm but has trouble handling Tapu Lele + fast mons and Scarfers such as Genesect. On the flip side Pursuit is a nice option to help put Tapu Lele into a checkmate position.
Colossoil
The basket ball star still feels relevant even with the addition of Tapu Bulu and Buzzhole which handle it well. The only set I've tested is Life Orb and its very good for dealing massive amounts of damage to everything not Tomohawk, but AV should still be nice to let it check Tapu Koko/Tapu Lele once. I don't think we'll see Colossoil on every other team again but the core mon of hard hitting mon with spammable moves is still there.

Porygon Z
Porygon Z almost feels like a joke everytime I use it but I've had a fair number of games where Z Conversion just wins games on the spot. It's a nice customizable wincon you can support with the Tapus or Kerfluffle or even Alolan Ninetails to set up, and +1 anything under a terrain is going to tear teams in half. Main counterplay seems to be keeping Haze Tomohawk for after its boost or a scarfer such as Genesect to revenge kill it as it really only gets a single chance to sweep.

Manaphy
Manaphy is the last mon I'll talk about and it's another Pokemon that got buffed largely by Z moves. Z Rain Dance lets it clean up teams due to the speed boost, especially after a Tail Glow, and Z Waternium Surf + Rain + Tail Glow is enough to break through Chansey, Clefable, and Quagsire. Last move can be HP Electric to get past Toxapex and Manaphy or Psychic to get past Toxapex and Mollux. I won't be surprised if Manaphy goes back to being the go to stallbreaker in the meta, especially as it's not dead weight against offense anymore.


That's all I've gotten over the last couple days of playing the meta and I encourage everyone else to give their thoughts on things. I may drop a team or some cores later down the line as I test more and more.
 
I'm really Liking Aloan Marowak at the moment. With the right EV spread it can check common powerhouses like Plasmanta, and even Aurumoth (to an extent). it has great bulk and an amazing supporting movepool. It can quickly chip down mons with Will-O-Wisp and SR combined, making it a royal pain in the ass for offensive teams. It also is no slacker in the offensive department, although it's no Landorus, it still hits hard and shadow bone can really annoy physical attackers. But it still gets beaten by a load of water types and ground types, which are relatively common, and it has no good recovery outside lefties. However, Alarowak can fit on loads of teams and really appreciates being part of a FWG core, especially with Pokemon like Slowking/bro, Venusaur, Manaphy and others.
 
In the current CAP Metagame for Gen 7, I really like how most people have teams that require the need of UBs (like Celesteela). At the moment, its hard to describe some pokemon that are used most of the time as the metagame is messed up due to some tiers being non-existent, so we don't know what pokemon might be in what until we get notified. Some Alolan pokemon I got interested with when laddering include both Celesteela and Tapu Koko.

Celesteela has a genuine movepool that makes it really fun to play with, besides using it as a Physical User. I was running I set I found on Smogon earlier, with the set of Modest Nature, Autotomize / Air Slash / Flamethrower / Flash Cannon, EVs being 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 SpD, running Lefties. I tested it out in ladder with a Gen 7 team I made with the normal cores (Tomo + Colo). I have seen that due to Beast Boost + Speed Stat Boost (from Autotomize), Cele is proven to be a really viable mon in terms of having the highest Special Attack stat (107 SpA compared to 101 Atk) and that it can sometimes check for some threats including Stratagem, Syclant, Cawmodore, and so on. There might be times that Cele may be frail when facing some mons in which it can't counter with the boost, Cyclohm for an instance.

Here are some examples of the amount of damage that Celesteela does towards a variety of threats with a Speed and Sp. Attack Boost:

With the Speed Boost from Autotomize:

252+ SpA Celesteela Flamethrower vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Syclant: 544-640 (192.9 - 226.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Celesteela Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Stratagem: 336-396 (104.6 - 123.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Celesteela Flamethrower vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Cawmodore: 238-282 (98.3 - 116.5%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO


After Beast Boost:

+1 252+ SpA Celesteela Flash Cannon vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Crucibelle: 432-510 (122 - 144%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ SpA Celesteela Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Metagross: 308-364 (102.3 - 120.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Shoutouts to snake_rattler for inspiring me to use it on my teams!

In the case of Tapu Koko, it has a special move pool, even though it has more Attack than Special Attack, hence its very known as a Special Attacker. In my team, I ran the following set that I found in Smogon:

Tapu Koko @ Life Orb
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Calm Mind
- Thunderbolt
- Dazzling Gleam
- Hidden Power [Fire]

I know that most people often prefer a set with Volt Switch and HP Ice, but when I tested this Smogon set on ladder, its proven to be useful (though rip 393 Spe :( ). When running CM on Tapu Koko, boosted with Electric Terrain, makes Thunderbolt much more powerful, as I have seen it in many scenarios when it faced against Celesteela, Keldeo, and any other pokemon. After the CM boost, it has some chances to check Colossoil if it runs AV and some other pokemon.

Damage Calcs I took before or after the CM boost:
252 SpA Life Orb Tapu Koko Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Keldeo: 335-398 (103.7 - 123.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

After 2 turns of using CM:
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Tapu Koko Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 176 SpD Assault Vest Colossoil: 385-455 (94.5 - 111.7%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

Besides the pokemon I mentioned about, some pokemon I had caught the attention of include Pheromosa and Tapu Lele (in the case of Choice Scarf). I'm still not yet familiar with any other pokemon that I see in normal Gen 7 CAP battles, but when I do, I'll be sure to share some of my opinions of each to you guys!
 
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I'm going to leave off most things that Cbrevan already analyzed, as he looked at most of them pretty closely. Some short (And some not-so-short) thoughts below:

Dhelmise:
This thing is a fairly nice generic answer to a lot of CAPs, but is mostly troubled by a low speed tier. Anchor Shot is handy for common Fairies and for taking advantage of bad plays via trapping, Power Whip can deal massive damage to CAPs such as Arghonaut and Krillowatt, and EQ can nail quite a few other things. Phantom Force works, but the turn of chargeup makes it pretty easy to predict. The damage packed is tempting though. The bulk is quite respectable and provides a lot of durability, although somewhat held back by lack of recovery. Overall I'd say it runs Rapid Spin quite well. Mainly receives competition from Necturna who can play similar roles, and suffers from the common Fire, Dark, and Flying moves in the CAP metagame.

Heatran:
I'm loving this thing right now. Provides an excellent and fairly reliable switchin to Tapu Lele, Celesteela lacking EQ, Mollux and Salazzle lacking HP Ground, Tapu Bulu Choice-Locked into Wood Hammer, and quite a few other notable new pieces of the metagame. It runs a very reliable SR set, whether it be offensive or defensive. However, Heatran does struggle with some lesser used (But used nonetheless, as they are new) Pokemon such as Araquanid, Golisopod (Who fears Burns), Gyarados (Also hates burns), and Kingdra. I currently prefer the Offensive set, but I don't doubt the effectiveness of stallbreaker or Utility in the new metagame.

Togekiss:
Togekiss honestly doesn't feel like it changed much. Tapu Koko and Alolan Raichu sweepteams definitely cut viability to some extent, but Togekiss still stands tall as one of the best stallbreakers simply by nature of stats, ability, and movepool. It remains an excellent answer to most grass types including Dhlemise, Decidueye, Tangrowth, and Alolan Exeguttor. Has some struggles between the aforementioned Electric Types, Salazzle, and Nihilego.

Togedemaru:
Surprisingly good bulk for something that looks incredibly frail on paper. So far, the only viable set I've found is Rocky Helmet with Nuzzle, Zing Zap, Spiky Shield/U-Turn, and Wish. This allows it to provide some utility, stallbreaking, and punish Rapid Spin and U-Turn users. Has quite good synergy with its fellow Toge (Togekiss). However, this 'mon is a tad niche as it has pretty low bulk, doesn't pass particularly large Wishes, and isn't very fast or hard-hitting either. It falls apart to Dugtrio who can trap it with ease, and breaks down to so many obvious important aspects of the meta that I won't even list more than a few. Landorus-T, Garchomp, Colossoil, Pyroak, Cawmodore, Krillowatt, and Fidgit are some examples. These all completely demolish Togedemaru by resisting and/or being immune to most if not all of Togedemaru's moves, and can easily OHKO or set up on it. Please only use this 'mon if you need something to punish U-Turn that can stallbreak and pass wishes. Garchomp beats VoltTurn infinitely better, Togekiss or Jirachi stallbreaks better, and many many many things Wishpass better.

Cyclohm:
Feels pretty similar still. It beats Celesteela, Mega Metagross (Who runs EQ less now) Cawm, Scizor, Mega Pinsir, and Gyarados pretty well still. I would say Clohm is slightly less viable though as of right now, for several reasons. One is that Cyclohm had a main role of being one of the best Talonflame counters; but Talonflame is no longer relevant in Generation 7 CAP. Common powerful Ground and Fairy Types drastically hurt viability sadly, such as Landorus-I, Flame Orb Colossoil, Tapu Koko, Tapu Lele, and Magearna. Fortunately for Cyclohm, none of these like taking an Ice Beam, Hydro Pump, or Fire Blast respectively, besides Tapu Koko. Still quite useful if you need an option for powerful switchin for Water, Electric, Steel, and powerful physical attackers.

Celesteela:
A good defensive option with handy defensive typing. As a purely defensive Pokemon, you would be better off using Skarmory (Who possesses more utility moves). Celesteela runs a powerful mixed set that can beat many important Pokemon in the CAP metagame. If running SpD, it can easily wall Kerfluffle, Tapu Lele, and Sylveon on all fronts, especially with a +1 boost to SpD from Beast Boost ability. Physical defense tends to be more useful on account of checking Cawm (Albeit shakily), Colossoil, Landorus-T, Gliscor, Mega Scizor, Jirachi, Mega Metagross, and many other notable threats. I would advise running Heavy Slam, Flamethrower/Fire Blast, Earthquake/Stone Edge/Energy Ball/Seed Bomb/Protect, and finally Leech Seed/Autonomize/Coverage of choice. I personally fine Heavy Slam, Flamethrower, EQ, and Leech Seed with Leftovers best in CAP. Heavy Slam has huge base power thanks to Celesteela's absurd weight stat, Flamethrower covers Steel types, and EQ covers Fire, Poison, and the steels that Flamethrower can't hit such as Heatran. Leech Seed provides passive recovery. Stone Edge can be used to hit Flying, Bug, and Fire, but misses out on Poison and Electric. Energy Ball or Seed Bomb can be used to break Slowbro or other bulky water types who otherwise trouble Celesteela. Anyways, I'd say more, but this is getting long. Moving along!

Skarmory:
Pretty much does the same stuff that it did last gen. It still is excellent as a phazer, SR setter, Defogger, and Fairy check. I didn't get to look at it too closely yet, but it seems like it will remain fairly viable. It most definitely dislikes the newfound prominence of Electric and Fire types/coverage in the metagame however, most notably Genesect, Celesteela, Mollux, Tapu Koko, Alolan Raichu, and Volkraken.

Rotom-W:
Still stands as pretty much one of the best Pivots in the game. Has some issues with all the Ground types who love to block Volt Switch, but Rotom-W whacks pretty much all of them upside the head with Hydro Pump. Assault Vest Colossoil who previously could take a Hydro Pump and hit hard with Knock Off is less common in lieu of Flame Orb, meaning Rotom can now deal even more to the most notable Ground type in the meta. Rotom-W is not a fan of the Burn nerf, but can still manage.

Pyroak:
Good. Stuff. It can reliably check a lot of current dangerous Pokemon in the metagame, however, I'd advise running Earth Power now. The coverage becomes more necessary for destroying hard-hitting Electric and Fire types harder such as Alolan Marowak, Tapu Koko, and Alolan Raichu. Despite the massive detraction from defenses, I'd reccomend 136 speed EVs in order to outspeed defensive Mollux. Reason being that defensive Mollux is freaking everywhere right now. I've been running Leech Seed, Synthesis, Lava Plume, Earth Power, and defensive EVs with the said speed. It has been working fairly well so far.

Tapu Lele:
Two words: Hard Hitting. This 'mon runs a fairly effective Scarf, Specs, and CM set. Psychic under Psychic Terrain, off of Lele's excellent SpA stat, dents even resists for significant damage. Psychic Terrain is great to avoid Sucker Punch and support Offensive teams, and aids in preventing Cawmmodore from using Bullet Punch against faster Pokemon. If running Specs or Scarf, I advise Psyshock/Psychic, Moonblast, Focus Miss, and Shadow Ball. This gives perfect neutral coverage, and hits most Pokemon quite hard. One could run Energy Ball for Water or Ground types, but Lele can hit most Water or Ground Types supereffective from their secondary type. If it's monotyped, they will be severely hurt by Psychic usually. CM, Aromatherapy, Moonblast, and Psychic is a pretty effective set too. Dislikes having a lack of recovery besides passive Leftovers, but still is great and eating up slow teams. Has significant problems with Steel types though, especially since it is forced to rely on Focus Miss for many of them. Bulky Mega Scizor can take any of the attacks easily and force Lele out. Overall, Lele also struggles with strong Physical attackers in general. I highly recommend using Tapu Lele.

Mega Gyarados:
Not sure about Gyarados. It doesn't have many issues setting up still, and also remains an outstanding wallbreaker in Mega form. I feel that it more often in CAP would rather run Crunch, Earthquake, and Ice Fang for moves though and forfeit the Water STAB. Water STAB has become far less necessary now that say, Talonflame, is gone, and pretty much all relevant Fire Types are hit hard enough by EQ and Crunch. Ice Fang is still a must to break some Dragon and Grass types.

Magearna:
Magearna packs quite a punch, although I haven't gotten to trying sets outside All-Out Attacker. Volt Switch provides excellent pivoting capabilities, as well as hitting Water type switchins for respectable damage. Fleur Cannon hits extremely hard on any Pokemon that doesn't resist that isn't named Chansey, and the side effect of lowered SpA is minimized on account of the Soul Heart ability. Flash Cannon and Aura Sphere provide fairy fairly good side coverage. Ice Beam, Energy Ball, Shadow Ball, and Thunderbolt can hit pretty much any switchin imaginable supereffective sans Scizor, who can set up Swords Dance on Magearna pretty easily. Setup options include Shift Gear (Which is used like Rock Polish here) and Calm Mind. Both I feel would be quite effective wincons.

Syclant:
Has some issues with SpD Celesteela, who is a new piece of the metagame that everyone should expect to see fairly common. Additionally, Syclant can be revenge killed easily by Tapu Koko, Alolan Raichu under Electric Terrain, and a plethora of new and old Choice Scarf users such as Tapu Lele and Volkraken. The occasional Lycanroc-Midday can easily KO Syclant using Accelerock. Despite these new faults, Syclant still proves an effective cleaner in the new Metagame, with Ice Beam, Earth Power, Superpower, and Buz Buzz being outstanding coverage. The Tail Glow set works great as well. However, many of the common Pokemon in Generation 7 are quite bulky, meaning that Syclant is essentially forced to run Life Orb over Focus Sash more than ever in order to maintain meaningful damage output.

I'll add to this more as the meta continues! May the winds ever be in your favor through this new meta, and let me know if you find anything cool! If you guys would like, I may just create micro-analyses for all the most relevant Pokemon and some in order to aid with everyone's teambuilding.
 
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snake

is a Community Leaderis a Top CAP Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
CAP Co-Leader
I just want to type up a quick post on a Pokemon that I've been enjoying lately.

Fidgit @ Leftovers
Ability: Vital Spirit / Persistent
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Earth Power
- Sludge Bomb
- U-turn
- Rapid Spin / Stealth Rock / Tailwind

On fast paced teams, it's difficult to check Tapu Koko, Mega Crucibelle, and Kerfluffle in one teamslot. However, Fidgit can get the job done: with dual STABs, Fidgit gets pretty nice coverage, hitting the aforementioned threats super effectively while also annoying Mollux, Heatran, Pyroak, Toxapex, and Cyclohm. Poison from Sludge Bomb can wear down Pokemon, which is good for offensive teams. U-turn lets Fidgit get out of any match-ups it doesn't like, which usually consists of Steel-types that don't care about Earth Power. Rapid Spin is the icing on the cake, as Fidgit can force switches with its odd typing to get a free turn to spin and has enough bulk to spin against weak attacks. However, Stealth Rock is an option if you have hazard removal on another Pokemon or simply don't need it. Tailwind is an option to use alongside Persistent to help its allies outspeed some of the faster threats in the metagame.

While specially defensive Mollux can spin, recover, and spread status with arguably better stabs, Fidgit's extra speed, resistance to Stealth Rock, and access to U-turn gives it a niche as a oddly effective utility check.
 
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reachzero

the pastor of disaster
is a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Top CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
This is a pretty fun CAP metagame, though it's pretty nasty trying to build a team that isn't desperately weak to a major threat. Scarf Genesect goes a long way toward helping you survive stuff you would otherwise be crazy weak to, but trying to build a team that can take on Manaphy AND Tapu Lele AND Mega Metagross is a pretty tough job. That being said, some of the best stuff I'm using right now are things I haven't seen from others, so both must be flying a little under the radar.

Zygarde
@ Leftovers
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Careful Nature
- Coil
- Substitute
- Toxic
- Thousand Arrows

This guy sets up on so many common Pokemon it isn't even funny. It takes otherwise excellent Pokemon like Mollux and Celesteela and makes then into liabilities. Thousand Arrows is an incredible improvement for Zygarde over anything it had in Gen 6 because it can run a mono-attacking set without being walled by stuff with Levitate or Flying types, while Toxic ensures that you still beat stuff like Tomohawk (Zygarde's Gen 6 nemesis), Tapu Bulu and Unaware Clefable. This probably won't help against hyper offense, where everything is faster and carries Ice moves, but it absolutely crushes stall and balance, which have always dominated the CAP metagame. A lot of people are sleeping on Zygarde-50% since Power Construct got banned, or opting for Zygarde-10%, but this guy is actually still very strong.



Landorus-Therian @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 208 Def / 48 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Knock Off/U-turn
- Fly

Pretty much everyone knows what Landorus-T does at this point, but Gen 7 gave Landorus-T the ability to OHKO Tomohawk while doing a better job against Colossoil's Knock Off at the same time. A lot of teams benefit from taking Tomohawk out of the way, and Landorus-T does it really well. I like Knock Off for its general utility, but U-turn has a lot of advantages, such as letting you go right to Zygarde to set up on Celesteela. ;)
 
Speaking of Dugtrio, it's a very good mon in the meta right now. There's a couple more targets for it in CAP such as Cyclohm, Mollux, and Mega Crucibelle that make it a good choice for a number of offensive cores. I'm sure Dugtrio will just get more obscene as time goes on and people work out what to trap and use with it more.
Since we've had things officially banned now i've been building a lot lately and have been missing around with a lot of weird stuff to say the least. I'm going to come out and say it now if u have used dugtrio try it its down right godly in this meta. While I know most of u might be tempted to use sash of band I'm going to introduce to a set that I've had recent success with and i predict it to be the made dugtrio set used this gen. The set being scarfed dugtrio! just give it a try I promise.

Dugtrio @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Aerial Ace
- Earthquake
- Memento

No need for a very detailed explanation of what the set does because its pretty self explanatory. It just traps, out speeds, and kill things. Very nice I'd like to add in the current meta. That is all have fun with it. Side note btw does anyone know when the sun and moon cap sample team thread will be made have some good teams I'd like to post.
 
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cbrevan

spin, spin, spin
is a CAP Contributoris a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
fratty said:
Side note btw does anyone know when the sun and moon cap sample team thread will be made have some good teams I'd like to post.
If you'd like to share teams you've made this is as good a place as any. I'd even goes as far to say this is a better place for a general team dump than a sample team thread, as a sample team thread is more suited to singular well polished teams as opposed to many less polished teams, if you get what I mean.
 

Conni

katharsis
This might be a common question I'm unaware about, but is there any possibility at all of a current CAP Pokemon getting some sort of Alolan forme? Or is that out of the question?
 
This might be a common question I'm unaware about, but is there any possibility at all of a current CAP Pokemon getting some sort of Alolan forme? Or is that out of the question?
In my opinion, that might be out of the question in this sub-forum, but then it could be looked upon by the PRC, so I suggest asking them that specific question.
 
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