ORAS Doubles OU Semi-Sun Doubles OU team

[lupisan]

Hello! It's my first time posting here in the forums, but I really wanted to see what people thought about my team because there's a tourney soon in my city (my country doesn't have official tournaments, but I still take it seriously xD) ok so here goes:

Crobat @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Quick Guard
- Taunt
- Tailwind
- Super Fang

Crobat's easily the most important pokemon of my team, offering all the support it needs. I always lead with it because it's quick guard prevents almost any Fake Out in the metagame, and the other pokemon can attack freely; it's also very useful against priority users, like Pranksters, Talonflames, Bisharps, etc. It is great to shut down Trick Room because of Inner Focus and Taunt. The sad part is that it's my only plan against trick room, and it fails against Follow Me, Ragepowder and Mental Herb. It has great synergy with Excadrill, Charizard and Heliolisk because of Super Fang. It's surprisingly bulky too.

Heracross @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 HP / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Protect
- Facade
- Megahorn
- Close Combat

The powerhouse of the team, this beetle hits HARD. I usually use it under Tailwind because of it's speed, and it works wonders. Even after an Intimidate, it can be useful, specially with help from Vaporeon or Crobat. Close Combat hits Kanghaskan and other common pokemon such as Heatran and Snorlax. Megahorn is a must have STAB move, and Facade hits everything else. The bad thing is that it's basically useless against ghosts like Gengar and Aegislash, and without Tailwind, Metagross and Gardevoir destroy it. It's one of my best pokemon, and people always think that it's mega or Moxie, and burn it to no avail.

Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Protect
- Helping Hand
- Scald
- Ice Beam

Vaporeon is a great wall, and it's a great switch in for Excadrill, Heracross and Heliolisk, specially against pokemon like Heatran. Scald is there for the lucky burn, and then wearing down the opponent with protect. Ice Beam is necessary because of dragons and Landorus-T, who greatly threatens my team and hits them hard without SpA investment. Helping Hand is there for when I know there's no Wide Guard on the field, and it does wonders Charizard's Heat Wave, Heliolisk's Hyper Voice and Excadrill's Rock Slide (or Earthquake if it's really necessary, then I just switch to Char or Crobat). I tried it with Wish, but it worked a little better this way.

Charizard @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Solar Power
EVs: 84 HP / 252 SpA / 172 Spe
Timid Nature
- Protect
- Heat Wave
- Solar Beam
- Ancient Power

Char always comes early on, usually with Crobat so it can use Tailwind, faint, and make way for Heliolisk or Vap. Completely walled by Heatran, but I think the risk is worth it with all the other Chars, Talonflames and Volcaronas weak to rock attacks, that's why I chose it over HP Ground. I gave it a little HP investment so it would be bulkier and resist a little more, as most of the times it's gonna be under tailwind anyway. Weak to Wide Guard Aegislash, as is Excadrill. Thruthfully, only vap can deal with it, or crobat previously taunted it.

Heliolisk @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Solar Power
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Hyper Voice
- Grass Knot

With sun support, Heliolisk is incredibly powerful, and even more with Hyper Voice recently added to it's movepool. Without Wide Guard users on the opposing team, it works great with Charizard. I chose Scarf for it to at least have a pokemon not dependant on tailwind, and under Rain it's the only one that can take on M-Swampert. HP Ice is to kill off Landorus fast basically, and it helps against Garchomp and other Ground Types that threaten it. I tried Focus Blast before, but it's far too unreliable.

Excadrill @ Life Orb
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 196 HP / 252 Atk / 60 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Protect
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Iron Head

I chose Excadrill mainly because I needed something to take the psychic and rock type attacks that would otherwise kill Crobat, Heracross and Charizard. Then I noticed that I really needed something against fairies to begin with, and it has the ability to hit Rotom, Gengar and Cresselia with EQ and that's really useful. I can't really explain the EV spread because I usually do 252/252/4 so I just wanted to make it somewhat bulky and at the same time investing a little in speed. Life Orb's there just to hit as hard as possible.


So that's my team, I would love to hear what you guys have to say about it because I'm relatively new to the competitive scene and want to become better nwn all help is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance~

 

[Yellow Paint]

Doubles ou is relatively unplayed except in the smogon community, so I'm guessing the tour you're building for uses vgc rules. Maybe you read battle spot doubles, which is identical to vgc? I'd be very surprised if you're actually using dou rules.

Unfortunately, your team is unviable in either meta, to the point where you'd be better off scrapping and getting a sample team from their respective forums.

some reasons:
crobat is pretty bad, especially with your very passive moveset. Talonflame is a better pick overall.

Life orb terrakion has a similar damage output and much better speed tier and typing than heracross. It also has space for taunt or quick guard to help your tr matchup.

vaporeon is outclassed by milotic in vgc and keldeo in dou.

I guess zard is fine. Ancientpower is questionable though, it only hits talonflame.

Heliolisk is too frail and even with solar power doesn't have an amazing damage output. Getting choicelocked into scarf is also not very fun. Trust me on this one, I've tried and failed multiple times to make heliolisk semiviable.

Excadrill is worse than and loses to landorus t.

Overall, I think you should just start again while paying attention to a viability rankings. You're doing okay with the composition and roles of a team, you just need to use mons that aren't unviable or severely outclassed.

 

[lupisan]

The tournament is 6vs6, and they don't use tiers of course owo they just ban certain pokemon and items such as m-rayquaza, latiosite and such. The reason it's not vgc it's that we already had one recently (in which I placed second) with that format, and they come up with new theme tours every time (like the other time when we could only use starter pokemon). That's so you better understand the background nwn it's unofficial stuff.

First of all, thank you for commenting and for your suggestions *-*.The reason I put heracross in the team was that he was a beast in the last tou, even against powerful meta teams, so in practice it works better.

I had thought about talonflame instead of crobat, but it can't prevent a flinch from some faster fake outs, plus, I already have a x4 rock weakness on char owo.

I can try milotic, that seems like a great idea nwn with competitive it would me great against my landorus weakness.

I don't think the other pokes are unviable though, I'm now on the 1600s with this team owo a team that has great synergy together does better than teams just based on stats sometimes.

I'll upload the picture of the top 4 of thelast tou, the 2nd being mine, to see if you guys think that one's more balanced, or that I should put pokes fitting similar roles there in this one or something owo thanks for the help!

PD: the tag is not vgc nwn it's for 6vs6 doubles. Put it here bc tldr

 

[Yellow Paint]

Wow, that's quite a surprise.

Anyhow, what I meant about your team is that even though you have a good grasp on team roles and such, you're being held back by using mons like hera and vaporeon. I think you're better off rebuilding with a viability rankings in mind, so that you can make another team of mons that work equally well together, plus the added benefit of better bst/ability/movepool. My "reasons" were not rates, if you implemented all of them it'd just be a ragtag team with no purpose in mind. I was just trying to illustrate how you could be using far superior mons, depending on your banlist. http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/doubles-ou-viability-rankings.3535930/

 

[lupisan]

Ohh ok nwn I get your point, sorry for not understanding it earlier

 

[KiraKarma]

Crobat has only 85/80/80 bulk, which while it might not be as bad as some other stuff in the metagame, it's definitely not going to survive much. There are other mons that u can use to taunt like thundy, or u can take advantage of tr by using something like amoonguss. The only thing that's really any good about crobat is the speed, but like paint said, tflame really outclasses it in practically every way. If you still wanted a twind support mon, you could go with something like goggles/sitrus togekiss. You also lack a switch into spore, which something like goggles togekiss could solve. You could also try something like LO venusaur to take advantage of sun, while having a nice spore switch in. Heracross is pretty unviable, considering it has low speed and not enough bulk to make up for it. I would agree with paint on getting something like qg/taunt terrakion. You can't depend on twind to be up when heracross is in, and most likely it will get killed before it can do anything important. If you insist on using heracross, the only thing I would say is give it a flame orb because guts doesn't get the drop in attack from burns, but I really think heracross should go. If you want a bulky water support, go with suicune, it gets better bulk and also can set up twind if that's what you want, but two twind users is more than needed usually so snarl would also be a good option. On your char-Y set, I agree with paint that it works but you would probably be better off with overheat because aegislash walls your set. You could go with bisharp and lando-T for your last two because both would be nice switch-ins to rock. Bisharp would discourage an opposing lando from coming in and rock sliding. Lando would help with kangaskhan and give a nice ground STAB.

Overall:
Toge>Crobat, Terrakion>Heracross OR Thundurus>Crobat, Venusaur>Heracross
Suicune>Vaporeon
Char Y
Bisharp>Helio, Lando-T>Excadrill
Toge and terrakion deals with kang effectively and toge would be able to help out with follow me, but thundurus and venusaur would keep an electric STAB, provide taunt, still take advantage of sun like heliolisk with chlorophyll, have access to a sleeping move, and kang wouldn't be a major problem.

 

[Level 51]

Hi there. I'm not so sure about the overall construction of your team, but I'd assume you'd like to keep it fairly similar to what you already have. Thus my suggestions below:

- Crobat is pretty good, please ignore my close-minded peers. Quick Guard pairs decently with Tailwind, Inner Focus is godly, fast Taunt is good, etc. If you're interested in a bulkier (albeit slower) version of Crobat, you could also try Eviolite Golbat, though I'm sure some people will get on my case about this. I don't remember the spread off the top of my head, but I remember it can take an Adamant Mega Kangaskhan Double-Edge or a Modest Mega Gardevoir Psychic, so that's cool.
- You probably don't want a 'wall' per se on a Tailwind team. Try Tailwind Suicune, that's cool.
- Since you have Tailwind support, I'd argue that a bulkier Charizard spread might be what you're looking for. Try a Modest nature, perhaps EVd just to outrun Smeargle without Tailwind (I'm not entirely sure of your rulesets) with more bulk investment.
- Similarly, you may want to consider a Choice Specs Heliolisk instead of a Choice Scarf one to increase its damage output further. This depends on how confident you are of getting Tailwind up.
- Finally, I'd suggest using Assault Vest or Life Orb Landorus-T over Excadrill. Intimidate helps a lot since your team isn't very bulky apart from Vaporeon.

As I type this I realise this thread is almost 2 weeks old and this tournament is probably already over, but hope whatever you used worked for you lupisan n_n

 

[shaian]

If you're looking for a bulky zard spread for VGC like level 51 suggested:

Charizard @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 76 Def / 24 SpA / 156 Spe
Modest Nature
- Heat Wave
- Solar Beam
- Protect
- Hidden Power [Ground]

Outruns Smeargle, lives a Return from Adamant Kangaskhan, you could probably optimize it to use less EVs to hit the same benchmark (196 HP / 108 Def does the same but with 24 less EVs) in order to get more power, but I prefer being bulkier all-around with 'Zards, and am always willing to forego power in that end.

Charizard @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 248 HP / 64 Def / 88 SpA / 108 Spe
Modest Nature
- Heat Wave
- Solar Beam
- Protect
- Hidden Power [Ground]

Does the same in Doubles OU, which is level 100 as opposed to 50, but instead of the non-existent Smearge, it now outruns Breloom.

Moving on, some issues your team has are the lack of a proper Dragon-type check. A well played Latios, for example, easily beats 4/6 team members, and would likely be partnered with something which can readily handle the remaining 2. There is also a poor matchup versus Landorus-T, Kangaskhan (outside of Heracross, but even that is shaky since Kangaskhan outruns and OHKOs it), and various other staples of Doubles / VGC. The use of Crobat is nifty, but you should probably reconsider how you're going about it.

 

[lupisan]

Thank you guys, what you say is true, I'll try it on smogon to see if it works well and make a few adjustments~ nwn