1. The moderators of this forum are Celticpride, IronBullet, Snowy, and Sun.
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.
  3. Click here to ensure that you never miss a new SmogonU video upload!

SM OU Robo strikes again! Double Peak with Double Sash (2036 and 1971 points)

Discussion in 'SM OU Teams' started by robopoke, Jun 17, 2017.

  1. robopoke

    robopoke

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2015
    Messages:
    168
    Proof of peak (open)

    [​IMG]


    I have some fresh Azelf Squad for you to try out. There are certain rules you have to follow to successfully use this team. But first let us look at the team real quick:

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]



    [​IMG]
    Azelf @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Explosion
    - Taunt
    - Skill Swap

    This is the lead of choice most of the time. You get up Rocks as early as possible and either Explode or mess with your opponent by Taunting them or getting rid of their abilities. There are some matchups where you should not lead with Azelf. I will explain that in the next section. Basicly you try to get up Rocks as early as possible. Never Taunt a Lando-T turn 1 because they could U-Turn into a faster threat and kill you. Taunting Tran turn 1 is also dangerous because Magma Storm can kill you. This team is not weak to Stealth Rock so it is not a big deal.

    [​IMG]

    Greninja @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Protean
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Spikes
    - Taunt
    - Ice Beam
    - Extrasensory

    This is my secondary lead and depending on the matchup better than Azelf as lead. This Set easily sets up Spikes because Gren naturally forces switches. Taunt is there to prevent any form of Defog. Ice Beam is very important because the tier is full of mons weak to Ice. Extrasensory is needed because Tentacruel can otherwise spin all the Hazards away and it hits Toxapex and MVenu hard. The first three moves are mandatory, you can use what you like in the last Slot honestly.

    [​IMG]

    Tapu Fini @ Leftovers
    Ability: Misty Surge
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Calm Mind
    - Moonblast
    - Scald
    - Taunt

    Calm Mind Fini is a massive threat to many teams. People keep saying that Tapu Fini is bad but it is the Defog Set that is. CM Fini is a huge threat and can beat would be counters like AV Tang and defensive Zapdos. HP Fire over Scald is something I have thought about to lure Ferros and it still hits many Scald targets, but Scald is just so nice to get some burns and for Heatran and Alola-Marowak. Taunt helps stallbreaking and more importantly prevents Defog from Mew, MZor and slower Finis.

    [​IMG]

    Garchomp @ Dragonium Z
    Ability: Rough Skin
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Earthquake
    - Outrage
    - Substitute

    This Set is one of the most reliable breakers in the game. While there are some hard counters (Physdef Unaware Clef, Physdef Whirlwind Skarmory and Tapu Bulu) it easily gets at least one kill thanks to Z-Move and Substitute. Z-Outrage is also a great nuke to just oneshot Defoggers after they take all the hazard dmg. Many people try to pivot around Garchomps Stabs because they are so exploitable because both of them have immunities. That is where Substitute comes to play. If played correctly, you can be at +2 and behind a Substitute while getting at least 2 kills. Substitute also helps stalling out Misty Terrain turns to make Outrage stronger, prevents Leech Seeds, Toxics while also stalling Trick Room and Rain turns.

    Some relevant calcs:
    +2 252 Atk Garchomp Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Celesteela: 301-354 (75.6 - 88.9%)
    +1 252 Atk Garchomp Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 216+ Def Landorus-Therian: 370-436 (96.8 - 114.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

    [​IMG]

    Zygarde @ Leftovers
    Ability: Aura Break
    EVs: 192 HP / 136 Atk / 180 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Dragon Dance
    - Thousand Arrows
    - Substitute
    - Protect

    Oh my Zygarde. Lemme explain the EVs first. 180 Speed is important to outspeed Mega Mane at +1 and Scarfers up to Serperior at +2. 192HP gives Zygarde 101HP Subs and 136+Atk is a jump point. Because of this teams nature to get up Hazards reliably and prevent their removal, you can expect the switch ins to take massive damage which allows you to have less attack than usual.
    Sub/Protect helps maximize Leftovers recovery and either allows you to setup on many defensive answers. Protect also helps scouting Scarf Lati. If they try to Defog you can DD twice and probably win the game. Sub+Protect also can stall out Tapu Bulus Grassy Terrain without taking any damage because you recover all the damage from Substitute in two turns. Also helps stalling out Trick Room and Rain turns, which are always huge problems for teams like this.

    [​IMG]

    Magearna @ Leftovers
    Ability: Soul-Heart
    EVs: 248 HP / 96 SpA / 16 SpD / 148 Spe
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Shift Gear
    - Calm Mind
    - Thunderbolt
    - Ice Beam

    Double Dance Magearna, bulky variant. This Set can setup on common answers such as Mega Venusaur, Amoonguss, Mew and in general is a very good wincondition. You outspeed Mega Mane after 1 Shift Gear and can Calm Mind on it. This Set may look bad on paper, but you will see in the Replaysection how extremly dangerous this Set can be.

    How to use the team (open)

    1)This starts with the lead matchup:
    Basicly always lead Azelf unless there is one of these mons on your opponents team:
    Smeargle, Mega Sableye, Mega Tyranitar, Koko, Tornadus-T, Mimikyu, Excadrill

    a)Against Smeargle always lead Gren because they do not expect Taunt.
    b)For Mega Sableye lead Tapu Fini and do as much damage to the stall team as possible and sack it to bring Azelf safely against something that is not Mega Sableye. Then get up your Rocks. If your opponent goes to Msab on the Rocks, Skill Swap on the Knock Off and then get up Rocks. If Mega Sableye kills you with the second Knock Off, go to Gren and get as many Spikes as possible.
    c) Mega Tyranitar is dangerous for Azelf. If you Taunt it it might kill you in 1 hit through Sand. If you get up Rocks on it, he might sweep your team. Always lead with Garchomp and Sub turn 1 and see what he wants to do
    d) For Koko and Tornadus-T lead Gren and get up a Spike.
    e) For Exca you also lead Garchmomp and just Eq it turn 1. Or lead Azelf, try get up rocks. If he spams spin just boom. Or lead Gren and Ice Beam twice.

    2) Keeping up your Hazards at all costs
    Similiar to how Stallteams try to prevent Hazards, this teams needs hazards to win. Never go to Zygarde, Garchomp or Magearna if your opponents Defogger can Defog on you. You can make that play if you can win the game from that point or put yourself into a winning condition.
    Usually you lead Azelf get up Rocks. Then usually you go to Gren and use some Spikes while denying any Defogs. Then Fini is the last hindrance for your opponent that can reliably prevent Defog.

    3) Putting yourself into a winning condition:
    You should not always kill what is in front of you. Killing Lele can be a mistake because you can setup on that with Magearna. This also means sacking Tapu Fini to potentially weaken/Burn Tapu Bulu to help Garchomp and Zygarde sweep.


    Replays (open)

    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-591006375 Stall Matchup
    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-590614187 Standardgame

    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-590601397 Zygarde sweep
    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-591675026 Double Defog Matchup+Hax
    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-591247262 Scarf Lati Defog is exploitable
    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-590710346 Sub/Protect Zyg sets up on Scarf Bulu

    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-590612898 Grenlead coz Torn-T
    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-591236961 Grenlead coz Koko
    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-590602902 I lead with Gren coz I saw Koko and Zygarde sweep. Sub/Protect helps against Ferro

    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-590664719 Grenlead coz Smeargle, Magearna win
    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-590665942 Magearna
    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-591513938 Magearna
    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-591017780 Magearna?
    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-591511724 Magearna setting up on Mew+Sweep
    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-591466096 Sub SD Garchomp weakening Lando-T+AV Tang. Nice team win, Magearna sweep

    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-590671667 CM Fini just wins
    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-591245124 CM Fini is just amazing
    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-590708074 CM Fini 6-0


    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-591459923 Sub SD Garchomp is the future
    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-591938043 Sub Garchomp gets 2.5 kills
    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-591535234 Garchomp 6-0s
    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-590680292 Garchomp 6-0
    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-590686779 Sub SD Garchomp VS TR
    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-591504848 Sub SD Garchomp weakening Lando-T for Zygarde sweep.


    Importable (open)

    Azelf @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Explosion
    - Taunt
    - Skill Swap

    Greninja @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Protean
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Spikes
    - Taunt
    - Ice Beam
    - Extrasensory

    Tapu Fini @ Leftovers
    Ability: Misty Surge
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Calm Mind
    - Moonblast
    - Scald
    - Taunt

    Garchomp @ Dragonium Z
    Ability: Rough Skin
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Earthquake
    - Outrage
    - Substitute

    Zygarde @ Leftovers
    Ability: Aura Break
    EVs: 192 HP / 136 Atk / 180 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Dragon Dance
    - Thousand Arrows
    - Substitute
    - Protect

    Magearna @ Leftovers
    Ability: Soul-Heart
    EVs: 248 HP / 96 SpA / 16 SpD / 148 Spe
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Shift Gear
    - Calm Mind
    - Thunderbolt
    - Ice Beam
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2017
  2. Ktütverde

    Ktütverde

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2015
    Messages:
    178
    HEAT!
    You have quite a unique way of building offense man and I really love this team!
    I've watched some replays to see how the team worked (I couldn't watch the 17,000 replays you put sorry ) and would like to say my word, since every comment is welcome, isn't it?

    -Double ground-dragon combo is just a great idea since you get rid of landorus very quickly with chomp and sweep with zygarde. Spikes are deadly in a team featuring 4 set up sweepers and double sash, tho gimmick, is cancer and gives you free turns.
    -Magearna's set is the coolest thing I've seen in SM so far and I want to congratulate you for such great ideas! CM fini is a wink to this crocune/vincune hype and shows that it can succesfully run an offensive set!

    -Despite being able to handle and sweep most Ou builds, I feel that Magearna's lack of instant power is a double-edged sword, all the more so as you have 0 switchin to opposing magearnas, which can spam flash cannon on yours with fearing being killed because of their bulk and no stab on yours. Same with tapu lele which can freely spam psyshocks or psychics and find no check to stop him. If a ferrothorn comes in you simply cannot threaten it and it can spend 16 turns spamming leech seed and get your whole team down to 50% due to no leech immunity or fire/fighting stab.
    Tapu koko is a big issue too as long as you are not +1 with zygarde, and, another time, magearna cannot threaten the yellow, fast bird. I'm not sure whether fini is a great idea in a team so weak to koko and ferrothorn so I would like to make one suggestion!


    If you accept the challenge of replacing fini here are some ideas fixing some weaknesses....

    As a way to keep offensive momentum while somewhat fixing said weaknesses, here are some sets that I think can perform well in your team.
    In first place an Anti-defogger whose only safe counters, heatran and tornadus, are easy set up for your three other sweepers! I've always wanted to see contrary offense and this team looks perfect for it! Its speed is a windfall in this relatively slow team!
    In addition it can run the utility moves you want to support the team and is a decent water resist due to its good bulk ; I think it can open holes in stallteams and thus help magearna or zygarde sweep (since serperior wears clefable down)
    CONTRARY EVASION BOOST IS THE FUTURE


    [​IMG]
    Serperior @ Leftovers / Sitrus Berry / Iapapa Berry
    Ability: Contrary
    EVs: 56 HP / 200 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Leaf Storm
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Substitute / Calm Mind / Light screen
    - Leech Seed / Taunt / Reflect


    Here's a set I've used in offensive teams and it works wonders with zygarde (dont't bring celesteela or heatran or ferro, dear, I double switch and you get subbed by a zygarde). This thing is at the same time a late game cleaner, koko, keldeo, zygarde pivot, and brings grassy terrain to help your team switch into scarf chomp and landorus). Some rain+speed control is welcome too.

    [​IMG]
    Tapu Bulu @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Grassy Surge
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Horn Leech
    - Wood Hammer
    - Superpower
    - Stone Edge / Reflect / Light screen


    Finally, well, you have no mega, so why not add one? Offensive venusaur has little switch in in OU
    , so why not use it to lure magernas, heatran, and take advantage of koko using hp ice or tbolt? Venusaur is underrated and can easily open holes while tanking hits with its natural bulk. If you bring latios on it, well it's ez zygarde set up or magerna depending on the move it uses! I think a fast spread can be useful vs opposing landorus, tho a bulky set is as good! Earthquake or knock off are deadly vs heatrans, magearna, latios.
    [​IMG]
    Venusaur-Mega
    @ Venusaurite
    Ability: Thick Fat
    EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Modest / Mild Nature
    IVs: 30 Atk
    - Giga Drain
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Earthquake / Knock off

    I feel like you are very attached to CM fini so don't be offended by my initiatives, I just want to show all the cool possibilities you can run in the only slot of your team that can be changed without transforming the team!

    I will definitely give a try to your build, grats again, and keep building this way robopoke ! :)
    blarghlfarghl and robopoke like this.
  3. paoisd

    paoisd

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2017
    Messages:
    74
    this team actually looks so damn cool. but the only thing i would change is making scald on fini surf because if youre gonna be in misty terrain whats the point of scald also i think that you should put on a scarfer
  4. Yust

    Yust

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2017
    Messages:
    1
    Ey men this team is really amazing, i saw all replays and I have stayed with the doubt about de mu with stall. Can you put more replays or comment about to deal with stall?. A greeting and srry for my english xD.
  5. ayman x

    ayman x

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2017
    Messages:
    38
    Really cool team and a very interesting way of building HO. I like how there's some counterplay to most of the meta even though there might be no dedicated switch in. Shift Gear Magearna does look like a threat on paper like others said, but I've realised that three members don't let it set up with taunt and it shouldn't find a way to set up on your double grounds (unless Shuca). Koko can also be dealt with by planning a trade with one of the grounds.

    I like sub-protect lefties Zygarde a lot as it can be a real nuisance, but have you experimented with Yache Berry? It looks like it has the potential to do really well on a build like this.

    Any reason you're using Scald over Surf or Hydro Pump on Fini?

    Also, just wondering, what's your counterplay to Scizor? SD Scizor, while not common, looks like it can be a real nuisance 'cause nothing immediately threatens it.
    I need to start experimenting with CM Fini as well, looks like a great set :toast:
    robopoke likes this.
  6. robopoke

    robopoke

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2015
    Messages:
    168
    Yup, SD MZor will destroy me. But nobody is using that so it is fine :)
    Scald if nice to Burn Bulu switch-ins, who is a huge threat to my ground Types. And with all the hazards, I do not need the immediate damage from Hydro Pump most of the time.a
    I didnt face much stall actually. But the MU vs stall is good because of Skill Swap Stealth Rock and Spikes with the multiple ways to prevent Defog.

    Basicly all you do is lead with Fini and CM turn 1. If MSab Protects on the CM, you can double to Azelf but some stallplayers click Knock Off because they are crazy. So the safest play is to sack Tapu Fini against something that is not Mega Sableye while preventing Stealth Rock.
    Then you bring in Azelf and get up Rocks. If opponent goes to MSab, skill Swap and then Rocks. After that sack Azelf and get up Spikes on Msab with Levitate and prevent Defog with Taunt. Then it should be easy to win with SD Chomp, SG Magearna or DD Zygarde.
    ayman x likes this.
  7. cleska

    cleska

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2015
    Messages:
    8
    Well, you've got a nice team! Seriously I've not a lot of thing to say. For the rating, I think that 9/10 will be perfect for now. The only point I can't give you is about the Tapu Fini. To explain to you why, I've a question: When Tapu Fini come on the field, she summon the Misty Field, that diseable the capacity to inflict statues like burn or poison. Since you obviously know that, why do you put Scald to Tapu Fini, since there is absolutely NO WAY that you can burn you foe with it? Surf is a way better.
  8. OrangeGuru

    OrangeGuru

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2017
    Messages:
    186
    He's probably attempting to burn levitating foes and flying-types because Misty Terrain only affects grounded pokes (Mega Pinsir hates burn and he can try to burn Bulu on the switch since Misty Terrain would get replaced). To add my own rate, I notice the lack of a Scarfer to rkill threats like opposing Magearna (in case yours hasn't set up yet or got knocked out early). Perhaps Groundium Z -> Choice Scarf on Garchomp. Now this would lose your Z-Crystal, so I would say making Magearna a little more offensive with Electrium Z. Otherwise the teams looks solid and fun - nice use of Azelf in OU!
    robopoke likes this.
  9. NoobY

    NoobY

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2017
    Messages:
    2
    Really enjoy using this team, however, I find it extremely difficult to handle kartana, tapu bulu and tapu koko. What's more, the power of Z-outrage is weak under misty terrain. So what are your strategies when u r facing these threats?
    robopoke likes this.
  10. robopoke

    robopoke

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2015
    Messages:
    168
    No member of my team lets Magearna get up a Shift Gear unless it is Shuca Berry.
    Using a Scarfer does not fit this team because the main idea is to keep Hazards up at all costs and Scarfers are very easy to Defog on. That means I either need mons with either Taunt, great sweeping potential like SG Magearna and DD Zygarde to punish Defogs or powerful nukes like Z-Outrage to just oneshot Mew/Zapdos etc. after some hazard damage.
    Offensive Magearna is a good idea. I even thought about Z-Focusblast because Heatran+Ferrothorn is hella annoying. But then I do not have a Z-Garchomp and that thing really really helps weakening Lando-T, Tangs, Finis reliably for my Zygarde. It is a tough situation. Replacing Garchomp is possible but Garchomp also immensly helps with the Trick Room matchup because you can Sub on Uxies and SD for free and continue to Sub until Trick Room turns are at 1 to attack twice.

    If you see a Kartana or Bulu, do not sack Greninja just to get up Spikes. Tapu Koko, just like Mega Mane is a problem but I can trade with a Ground Type because I eat HP Ice. Koko cannot U-Turn around for ever because of the hazards.
    NoobY likes this.
  11. Ottodood37

    Ottodood37

    Joined:
    May 18, 2017
    Messages:
    7
    Awesome team and congrats on getting top ladder! I do agree though that your team might benefit from swapping Tapu Fini with another Pokemon such as this Serperior set:

    Serperior @ Leftovers
    Ability: Contrary
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Leaf Storm
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Dragon Pulse / Leech Seed / Substitute
    - Taunt

    It is a fast Pokemon that can also learn Taunt so it can keep your hazards up. It is also a good switch in to threats such as Ferrathorn, because it cannot Leech Seed it, and Serperior could revenge kill with an HP Fire.

    Otherwise this is a great team with great strategies!
    robopoke likes this.
  12. Imperator Caesar

    Imperator Caesar

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2017
    Messages:
    62
    Really cool team now all my boys are playing your set of magearna indeed it's a really shining set. Let's talk about the team in my opinion offensive Zapdos may be a huge threat here. Stalls are ridiculously effectiveness against your squad indeed your entire team is wall by clefable so play gunk shot in Gren. Also i salute the taunt on Gren yeah with taunt Gren hasards settings is provided but against double defogs's shit it will be easy to remove the hasards. On the other side dugtrio may be annoying here because it can trap all of your mons except Azelf. Lele scarf and dug destroys your team :o once Magearna gets trapped, moonblast is free :o. Let's talk about another problem WHERE IS YOUR ZYGARDE BAND SWITCH IN ?. Also Tapu Koko is a big issue he can pivoting, he can attacks, he can do whatever lol. Ferrothorn can be a problem hopefully your team has many taunt users so it's okay.Let's talk about the solutions !!!Gunk shot > Extrasensory + Play well against Toxapex and M Venusaur Shuca Berry on magearna in order to lure stuff like lando t and duggy
    Bulu taunt > Fini and if you chose this option you can play leftovers on Magearna

    I hope that i help you, sorry for my bad english too. Another thing I'd like to say is that your RMT is really pleasant to read.
  13. ecozone

    ecozone

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2016
    Messages:
    8
    how are you supposed to keep enemy hazards off the field or is the whole idea to be out momentum opponent so they can't set hazards?
  14. robopoke

    robopoke

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2015
    Messages:
    168
    Why do I need a Band Zygarde switch-in on a heavily offensive team like that and as you can see, every member can deal with Zygarde. Magearna can eat one and Ice Beam (very low chance), Fini outspeeds and can CM into Moonblast or just Moonblast twice. Garchomp can Z-Outrage. Zygarde can setup on Choice Band Zygarde with DD+Protect. If they Outrage, you get a free setup with Magearna. Gren can Ice Beam, Azelf is just a suicidelead. So I really do not understand that rate.

    Koko cannot do whatever he wants unless my opponent can Defog successfully without being swept. Otherwise Koko has to U-turn out alot, take all the hazard damage or trade its life with Garchomps/Zygardes. Gunk Shot on Gren is not really needed because Ice Beam already does enough to Bulu. Fini just gets Taunted and is crucial setup bait for Magearna. You do not want to kill setupbait. An option is HP Fire for Ferro to weaken it reliably for Magearna lategame.

    But glad to read that reading my RMT was pleasant.

    I do not really mind Stealth Rock because my teammembers are not weak to it. Even then, I have multiple Taunt users to not only prevent Hazards, but to prevent the removal of mine. As I said, it is too risky to Taunt Lando-T or Magma Storm Heatran turn 1 because having Rocks on your side is not a problem but having no Rocks on opponents side is a huge problem.
    Imperator Caesar and ecozone like this.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)