Research Week - Arceus

Hugendugen

Noam Chompsky.
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Except I'm quite sure arceus can't learn bulk up.
Wups, my bad. I just assumed it could, being a god and all. I guess an SD set could also benefit from the boost, but it's not as interesting as Bulk Up would have been. Oh well...
 
I used this for the Arceus LNT (evs adjusted and whatnot)

Arceus @ Spooky Plate
EVs: 100 in everything that isnt SpAtk
Nature: Adamant
-Substitute
-Swords Dance
-Extremespeed
-Shadow Claw

Its really impressive and behind a sub it gets a free +2 and its basically "gg". Unfortunatlely with work and the terrible players on PO (Special Quagsire :/) I haven't really been able to test it with the given EVs. Magnezone (or Magneton) works well as partners to get rid of Steel-type pkmn. So does Heatran. Its funnnnn. ^_^; Ghost-typing is also so it can't be Revenge killed by stuff like ExtremeSpeed Rayquaza, Dragonite (if thats used in Ubers) and it also gives it a good fighting immunity.

ill use this post to edit in other stuff that i think of/test. I don't have to work tomorrow so hopefully I can make something cool :)

edit: I thought of a lead arceus cause idk

Arceus @ Spooky Plate / Lum Berry
Brave Nature
EVs: :toast: 100 in everything, 8 in speed
-Extremespeed
-Stealth Rock
-Thunder
-Ice Beam

It probably sucks, I just tested it in a couple of battles, its natural bulk and speed and attack are amazing. Ice Beam beats Shaymin-S and also dents Groudon pretty well. ES is for Frail Leads like Deoxys-S/A. Spook Plate is also an option for Rayquaza, who won't be able to pick you off with ES and you can get it back with Ice Beam. Brave Nature will allow it to 2HKO Deoxys-S, and naturally Deoxys-A. Thunder and WoW are slashed. Thunder will let you 2HKO Choice Kyogre Leads. Went for a -Spe Nature because I felt like Taking away from its defenses could backfire.

edit 2: after more testing with arceus lead, wow is pretty much useless, thunder is better. Spooky plate is also better for stuff like rayquazza who is forced to use DM or Fire Blast (neither of which OHKO you).

edit: removed wow because its fucking useless, slashed lum for darkrai leads.
 

Death Phenomeno

I'm polite so just for clarity, when I'm cross I
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Just wondering. Is there any use for the Mind Plate? At all?

All the other ones are at least useful in some way, but I can't see anything for Mind Arceus.
 

Great Sage

Banned deucer.
I have been bugging Theorymon to find some use for Psychic Arceus, but he says it's utterly useless.

P.S.: All of you who are putting 8 Attack EVs on completely special Arceus are just ensuring that it does more damage to itself if it gets confused. Sure, you do more damage with Struggle, but if you're Struggling you're not killing anything anyways.
 
Arceus @ Light Clay/Toxic Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 100 HP/100 Def/100 SpA/100 SpD/100 Spe
Nature: Bold
-Light Screen
-Reflect
-Recover/Toxic
-Recover/Toxic/Judgment
This is a duel screening Arcues, Toxic is to help you stall with screens + recover (recover is needed if you want toxic) and if you want to use a attack, you have 100 base power Poison Judgement. (Poison type is chosen for good defensive typing, as well as absorbing Toxic Spikes.)
 
Why would you EVER use poison as an attacking type?

Arceus @ Light Clay
EVs: 100 HP/100 Def/100 SpA/100 SpD/100 Spe
Nature: Bold
Light Screen
Reflect
Recover
Ice Beam

No?
 

Matthew

I love weather; Sun for days
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Poison is hardly a terrible attacking type in Ubers, only Scizor, Dialga (the most common steel types next to arceus himself now I guess) are immune to it. Sure Giratina (origin) are resistant but they take quite a bit from Ice Beam so w/e.
 
Arceus @ Fist Plate / Spooky Plate / Leftovers
100 all but Sp.Atk
Jolly
Swords Dance
Brick Break
Shadow Force
Recover / Substitute

Unresisted coverage combined with the ability to double your attack stat on the spot makes this a decent threat. I'm pretty confident that Shadow Force is a lot better than Shadow Claw, which most people are using for whatever reason.
 
2 Shadow Claws will do more damage than 1 Shadow Force is the main reason most people use it. The bonus of hitting through protect doesn't mean much since the two main users of protect are 1hkod by +2 Shadow Claw(Latias) or immune to Shadow Force(Blissey). So you effectively turn 1hkos with Shadow Claw into 2hkos while 2hkos with Shadow Claws are at best 1hkos(over 2 turns) with Shadow Force.
 
How many of these sets have been tested? Are there any matches on Pokemon online?

Why don't we organize private matches through IRC to find good players on shoddy, with the mutual agreement that both sides will use a 100 EV'd Arceus? It would be a lot easier to find good Ubers players that way.
I agree, it isn't hard to organize an event...

Arceus should be unbanned, I think that there is nobody who plays ubers and doesn't want him unbanned. I know that A.Flute can't be obtained legally but if we all agree that we want to play with Arceus there shouldn't be any problem at all. I remember a thread in Policy or somewhere else about unbanning Arceus, and those who disagreed were those who don't play ubers at all.
 
How about these:

Arceus@ Leftovers
Careful
100 HP/100 Atk/100 Def/100 Sp.Def/100 Speed
~Cosmic Power
~Recover
~Toxic
~Seismic Toss

Simple, just keep using Cosmic Power, then Recover off the damage (Better against a slower opponent). The EVs sadly have to be that way. Toxic is the gist of the set, since stall is popular in Ubers, Arceus since he created it, must be the best at it. And he is, having access to pokemon who need to die quicker (looks at Kyogre)

Arceus@ Light Clay
Careful
100 HP/100 Atk/100 Def/100 Sp.Def/100 Speed
~Reflect
~Light Screen
~Recover
~Stealth Rock/U-Turn

Your basic supporter, but the best thing about this guy, is that you can just keep putting them back on, since this guy has enourmous bulk anyway. Careful nature is for the specially dominated Uber Metagame

Arceus@ Meadow Plate
Modest
100 Sp.Atk/100 Speed/100 HP/100 Def/100 Sp.Def
~Judgement
~Spacial Rend
~Overheat
~Thunder/Focus Blast
 

Theorymon

Have a wonderful day, wahoo!
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Not only does Arceus not get U-turn, but Spacial Rend is pretty bleh on Arceus since you are only hitting Dragons 2x. Please guys, put some effort into these sets and actually test them! P.s. I will be testing quite a few Arceus sets today, I will report on my results.
 

Jibaku

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Poison is hardly a terrible attacking type in Ubers, only Scizor, Dialga (the most common steel types next to arceus himself now I guess) are immune to it. Sure Giratina (origin) are resistant but they take quite a bit from Ice Beam so w/e.
*cough* 2nd worst attacking type after Psychic *cough*

The list continues on with Groudon, Forretress, Heatran, Tyranitar, and Metagross resisting it.

Now as for Shadow Force, the "Shadow Claw doing more damage over two turns" isn't the issue at all (hey did anyone forget that Shadow Force grants immunity?). It's the unreliability of it, and if you want to use Shadow Force (which by the way isn't a bad move due to its sheer power - something that might come in handy for taking down bulky Kyogres and Groudons), I think you might also need to use Shadow Claw ALONG with it (this means you forfeit Recover).

Issues off the top of my head:
1) Faster Pokemon + suicide baits. Stuff like Scarf Kyogre and Latios can dent Arceus really hard, and if you try to Shadow Force that, it could switch to a suicide bait, then come back and kill of Arceus. You can deny this using Shadow Claw (though you need Kyogre weakened a bit first)

2) Blissey + Lugia - Blissey can absorb Shadow Forces aimed at Lugia, while Lugia can take on Brick Breaks and use Roost on the turn Arceus vanishes. Blissey can also come in on the predicted first turn of Shadow Force and grant herself recovery, or Toxic Arceus. To get past this, you're going to need a lot of entry hazards and superb prediction "skills". Keep in mind that Shadow Force only has 8 PP.

3) Substitute Shaymin-S / Mewtwo. Should be self explanatory. Sub Ho-Oh can also give issues, but it probably won't Sub until it knows you only have Shadow Force as your STAB.
 

B-Lulz

Now Rusty and Old
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Tried a Zap Plate CM set which worked pretty well, STAB Thunder hits like a monster and it is quite easy to hit the resistant types with either Earth Power or Ice Beam. I'll test it more tomorrow but it looks pretty good.
 
Not only does Arceus not get U-turn, but Spacial Rend is pretty bleh on Arceus since you are only hitting Dragons 2x. Please guys, put some effort into these sets and actually test them! P.s. I will be testing quite a few Arceus sets today, I will report on my results.
I apologise for my Idiotcity, I shall list a set, and a couple of paragraphs to describe it properly


Anit Lead
Arceus-Lum Berry/Choice Specs
Modest
100 HP/100 Def/100 Sp.Atk/100 Sp.Def/100 Speed
~Ice Beam/Extremespeed
~Thunder
~Overheat
~Focus Blast

This Arceus is the new pokemon for Anti Leads, it can counter nearly all of them, hitting nearly all of them with either super effective attacks or boosted attacks (Overheat in the sun). Ice Beam is for some of the dragons over there. Thunder is to hit the oh so common Kyogre, and can hit Lugia and Ho-oh, though because of their huge Special Defense, and Arceus's lack of enough Sp.Atacking power they wont 2HKO without Stealth Rock damage. Choose Specs with Ice Beam or Lum Berry with Extremespeed. Lum Berry is for any Darkrai, that tries to sleep you, the you wake up and KO with Focus Blast, Extremespeed if you dont want any Deoxys-S getting an extra spikes, but it really isnt that important, you can go with Lum or Specs on both of them anyway.

 
Arceus-Lum Berry/Choice Specs
Modest
100 HP/100 Def/100 Sp.Atk/100 Sp.Def/100 Speed
~Ice Beam/Extremespeed
~Thunder
~Overheat
~Focus Blast


Arceus@Lum Berry
Mild
100sansDefence
Extremespeed
Grass Knot
Brick Break
Shadow Ball/Overheat

Grass Knot 2hkos Groudon and it either gets SR up or hits you with EQ for less than half your HP.
Kyogre 2hkos with Surf and you have a small chance to 2hko doing 44.6-53%. You do 2hko SpecsOgre while it can't 1hko you with Surf.
Brick Break + Extremespeed kills Darkrai
Deoxys formes are both 2hko'd by Shadow Ball -> Extremespeed but Deoxys-A beats you with Superpower+Extremespeed so the best you can do is break its sash and put it at -1 attack(It needs to Superpower to 2hko).
Brick Break is your best move against Dialga but you're looking at a 3-4hko.
Shadow Ball hits Meu and Giratina forms for Super Effective Damage as well as enabling a 2hko on max-HP Deoxys-S while Overheat deals with Scizor and Forretress.
 

firecape

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Although the anti lead has questionable advantage against deoxys-a.
edit: sorry I read it wrong, and Deoxy-a only gets SR down then ES you, cant really do much more if it still wants to get SR down, it could Superpower, but as stated previously, it wont get SR down then. Superpower fails to OHKO Arceus.

Anti-Lead
Arceus @ Lum berry
Nature: Lonely
Evs: All but speed (the attack is needed to do as much as possible on both ends, but some defensive Evs can be taken and put into speed)
-ExtremeSpeed
-Grass Knot
-X-Scissor
-Earthquake/ Ice beam

How this lead stacks up:
-Wins against all Deoxys (except to Deoxy-A, but then they will not get SR up) due to X-Scissor + ES forcing them to only get 1 layer of entry hazards or none at all if they choose to Superpower (which you survive), but you will die to Superpower + ES from Deoxy-A, but in the process breaking its sash, so just switch in a priority/pursuit user.
-You beat Darkrai due to Lum and X-Scissor + ES
-Kyogre is sort of a tie, Arceus doesn't die to Scarf Water Spout, and does around 50% with GK, then dies to the following Water Spout , but the next Pokemon can come in on a Kyogre locked into Water Spout. The T-wave lead fails the first para attempt, and succeeds the second at around 20% HP, which is in ES kill range, but you will generally outspeed T-wave leads so you can get in 2 GK if they decide to attack. (para hax sucks though)
-Groudon is KO'd by 2 GKs most of the time, and fails to KO Arceus (with the standard supporter set) with even 2 EQs and Lonely's defence drop.
-Mew cant due much outside of Explosion, and is 3HKO by X-Scissor, but it outspeeds Arceus so this is a general loss as it gets SR up and either Explodes or U-turns out
-Shaymin-s Is dealt with by ES
-Dialga is 2HKO'd by EQ and fails to 2HKO you with anything from the standard support set
-Ice Beam's only real use is for the recent upsurge of Rayquaza Leads, who cant OHKO you and die to Ice Beam in 1 hit, you otherwise can only do 40-50% with ES while Ray takes huge chunks out of you with Draco Meteor + ES (this isn't a guarenteed KO, but it can)

It makes a nice Mid-game revenge killer too with ES.
 
Just a note Kyogre DOES 2hko with Surf and Shaymin-S has a 57.8% chance to beat you with Seed Flare, it needs the SpDef drop to 2hko(.85 it hits .8 it gets the drop .85 it hits again). Otherwise you 3hko before it can 3hko you.
 
Deoxy's moveset would be shadow ball, ES, GK and SR/Spikes/fire punch etc. Arceus gets darkrai but forfeits SR.
 
-Wins against all Deoxys (except to Deoxy-A, but then they will not get SR up) due to X-Scissor + ES forcing them to only get 1 layer of entry hazards or none at all if they choose to Superpower (which you survive), but you will die to Superpower + ES from Deoxy-A, but in the process breaking its sash, so just switch in a priority/pursuit user.
And in case of overprediction?
Running to same people time after time (no need to talk about how much this happens in ubers) creates a mindgame of KO Arceus/Get Stealth Rock down for you opponet.
All these actions assumed after Deo-A using Superpower and Arc using X-Scizzor.

If they Extremespeed and you switch, you basically win,.
If they use Stealth Rock and you switch, well, they get the rocks and you their lead.
If they use Stealth Rock and you attack, Deoxys get extremely annoyed.
But if you both use Extremespeed, Deoxys wins.

Whether or not you might switch depends a lot from the team: having Forretress makes opposition's rocks slightly less devastating, or even more, if they have no Giratina. Also, if you rely much on Arceus to revenge certain threaths, risking rocks might be worth it. If you happen to have other revenge killers or no spinner + some flyers, keeping Arceus just in case should be considered - expecially if your opponet has seen yuo switching Arceus from current situation before.

Also, it is worth noticing, that Deoxys-A can severely weaken Tyranitar on switch. Unless it carries non-standard Fire punch, Scizor and Metagross will be relatively safe - as not even -1 Superpower + -2 Superpower KO unless both crit.
(As I found no uber set for Ttar, 160 HP CBtar was used for the calculation)
-1 Superpower aganist Tyranitar 108.1% - 128.1% (Deo is KO'd by sandstorm)
So no pursuiter is threathened by lead Deoxys-A running the standard set, as Tyranitar's Sandstorm KO's it even in the unlikely event of it choosing to Superpower on the predicted switch, and Scizor and Metagross can take any 2 of its attacks, and therefore must only use priority on Deoxys if they are in prime need of preventing Stealth Rock.
(Obviously in a scenario, where they didn't SR on the Switch already)

So, my point was: Even if they Superpower, your switch gives them a chance to get their hazards down. This is still risky, as you might stay and Extremespeed Deo down or use priority with your pursuiter.
But those scenarios open up different holes. Advantage is yours, as long as they don't switch in something problematic on predicted X-scizzor.
 

shrang

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Not exactly a set, but I just have an idea for this whole Research Week stuff in general. Would it be better if we actually held a tournament that had the theme of the research week (eg For this one your team HAS to have Arceus), and the winner would be crowned "Ubers Research Week Expert" or something like that, just like for CAP. This might get more people to play Ubers, as it's like an incentive. At the moment, there aren't really big motivational factors for people to test new sets for the Research Week at the moment.
 
Arceus @ Light Clay/Toxic Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 100 HP/100 Def/100 SpA/100 SpD/100 Spe
Nature: Bold
-Light Screen
-Reflect
-Recover/Toxic
-Recover/Toxic/Judgment
This is a duel screening Arcues, Toxic is to help you stall with screens + recover (recover is needed if you want toxic) and if you want to use a attack, you have 100 base power Poison Judgement. (Poison type is chosen for good defensive typing, as well as absorbing Toxic Spikes.)
This set seems entire useless tbh, it lacks the niche that gave uxie actual usefulness, which was Momento. Nor does it have high speeds, remember that this Arceus is taunt bait. Taunt prevents this Arecus from doing anything, even giving off a weak attack. Even with judgment, it's poison, lolololololololololol steels get a free switch in.
 
Okay, I decided I'd join in on the testing, here is the set I will try testing:

Pretendceus @ Insect Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 100 HP/ 100 Def/ 100 SpA/ 100 SpD/ 100 Spe
Nature: Modest (+SpA -Atk)
Moveset:

-Judgement
-Ice Beam
-Earth Power
-Fire Blast/Flamethrower/Calm Mind/Recover

This set is designed to feign the Dark typing, so it is best used where the enemy is most likely to use a Fighting type move. I chose the Bug Typing also as it is SE vs Psychic (one of most common types) and Dark (netting a 2HKO on TTar).
I understand that Dark with Fighting would do the job better, however the beauty of this set as I already mentioned is that everyone would expect that once you KO, say Mewtwo.
Ice Beam was used for coverage hitting Groudon and Dragons like Rayquaza and Giratina.
Earth Power is for Dialga and other Steels (especially Heatran). Finally, in the last slot I'd recommend Fire Blast for Scizor/Forry and the odd Skarmory but if you don't have a problem with those, I'd go for Calm Mind if you want to sweep a little more or Recover if you longevity.
The nature given is recommended to get a few necessary OHKO's and 2HKO's.
Flamethrower could be used, but is not recommended either. It really only depends on preference.

The biggest problem with this set is Kyogre can walk all over it tbh so you will need to get rid of the Water Lord first.
 

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