Pupitar (NU Analysis)

Oglemi

Borf
is a Top Contributoris a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnusis a Top Dedicated Tournament Host Alumnus

http://www.smogon.com/rs/pokemon/pupitar

[Overview]

A trolly base 51 Speed (getting to outspeed fully invested base 50s before boosting is pretty golden) and a great offensive typing are enough tools to give Pupitar an edge in the NU metagame, but what really makes Pupitar one of the absolute top offensive threats in the tier is its access to Dragon Dance. At just +1, Pupitar packs only slightly less power than Choice Band Relicanth while also outspeeding every unboosted Pokemon in the tier. Its access to fantastic offensive STAB moves cannot be understated, and Double-Edge and Hidden Power Bug both give Pupitar the coverage it needs. Even its ability Shed Skin is a gigantic perk that protects it somewhat against sleep, burn, and paralysis, and with a natural immunity to Thunder Wave, Pupitar has an easy time steamrolling over purely defensive teams. The only major downside is that Pupitar is rather slow before boosting, which can leave it vulnerable to more offensive teams. Outside of Dragon Dance, though, Pupitar is heavily outclassed by the other Rock-types in the tier, which are far stronger and bulkier, including Graveler, Sudowoodo, and Relicanth.

[SET]
name: Dragon Dance
move 1: Dragon Dance
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Rock Slide
move 4: Hidden Power Bug / Protect
item: Leftovers
ability: Shed Skin
nature: Jolly
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

Ideally, only bring out Pupitar late-game when the opponent's walls have been sufficiently weakened, set up Dragon Dance immediately, and pummel foes with the appropriate move. Earthquake + Rock Slide is great STAB coverage and all that Pupitar really needs most of the time. At +1, Rock Slide is a guaranteed OHKO vs 252 HP Glalie and offensive Pelipper, whereas Hidden Power Rock just falls short and doesn't come with a flinch chance, making Rock Slide the more desired option for Rock STAB despite the lower accuracy.

Hidden Power Bug can be used in the last slot for a reliable 2HKO on all but the most physically defensive Chimecho and Grass-types like Bellossom and Tangela, though standard defensive Tangela can avoid the 2HKO and OHKO Pupitar in return with its STAB moves. Protect is a neat alternative that can bide time for Leftovers recovery, pushing Pupitar out of a 3HKO range from Seismic Toss and Night Shade. Protect also comes with the benefit of scouting the opponent's Choice Band moves and allows for extra turns to activate Shed Skin if needed.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

A Jolly nature is needed for Pupitar to outpace the entire unboosted tier after a single Dragon Dance, as well as ensure that Pupitar can outspeed maximum investment base 50s before boosting, primarily Timid Bellossom. An Adamant nature can be used, but this leaves Pupitar at only 302 Speed at +1, leaving it outsped by all maximum investment base 90s and up, including big threats like Venomoth, Haunter, and Plusle. Taunt is a great choice for the last slot as it prevents the opponent from setting up on it or healing and can bide time for extra turns of Leftovers recovery and Shed Skin activation. Hidden Power Flying is the best alternative to Hidden Power Bug as it gets a super effective hit on Hitmonchan and retains the super effective hit on Bellossom and Tangela. Rest can be used in the last slot to let Pupitar quickly recover health and remove status manually, and it has a high chance of wearing off early thanks to Shed Skin. This is difficult to pull off though, especially considering that even extremely defensive teams will have multiple moves that will easily 2HKO Pupitar. Finally, Double-Edge can fill out the set and is a great safety move to use when you're unsure of what the opponent will switch to next, although it does come with some recoil.

Spikes are a great tool to generally weaken the checks and counters to Pupitar, as all of them are grounded, particularly the Grass- and Water-types. Flareon and Murkrow are good partners to take out the Grass-types that threaten Pupitar easily, while Plusle and Grass-types of your own can take out the Water-types that stand in Pupitar's path. Hidden Power Grass Plusle for example can eliminate Whiscash and nearly all of the other Water-types in the tier. Physically defensive Chimecho tank Pupitar's STAB moves and threatens an easy 2HKO back with Psychic if Pupitar lacks Hidden Power Bug, making Sableye and Metang good partners too.

Pupitar can have a tough time setting up if it can't get in against a Normal-, Bug-, Rock-, or Flying-type locked into an ineffective move, making an Encore partner or a screen partner a good teammate as well to give Pupitar the best chance of setting up as possible. A particularly good screen partner is Reflect Piloswine, as it tends to lure in Hitmonchan and can eliminate its threat of Mach Punch before bringing in Pupitar to clean the rest of the opponent's team.

[Other Options]

There are a lot of different ways to play with Pupitar, but almost none of them will be as effective as the set above. Taunt + Dragon Dance and Substitute + Dragon Dance both have their perks and can secure a sweep where just having the coverage of Hidden Power Bug would not, but finding the time to use both moves can be a daunting task when a good portion of the tier has a move that will hit Pupitar super effectively. Adding Liechi Berry to the Substitute + Dragon Dance set is an option that has a huge payoff if done well. A bulky EV spread and the Dragon Dance set above can be done, but Pupitar doesn't have much bulk to speak of, and the only real benefit would be making Pupitar harder to KO with Hitmonchan's Mach Punch.

A Choice Band set is certainly doable, and Pupitar has a huge perk in outspeeding max Speed Mawile and other base 50s like Piloswine. However, while there may be a bit of a surprise factor to running Choice Band, Pupitar will still be weaker than the likes of Sudowoodo and Graveler and would much rather keep its main advantage of outspeeding the tier after a boost rather than having immediately strong moves. Finally, Toxic is an option to get cripple defensive Tangela, but that's about the only target it'll make an impact on.

[Checks and Counters]

Physically defensive Tangela is probably the ultimate switch-in to Pupitar, as it's not 2HKOed by anything a +1 Pupitar can throw at it and easily OHKOes in return with Hidden Power Grass. Even at +5 Pupitar will fail to OHKO defensive Tangela with Hidden Power Bug. Physically defensive Whiscash, Wailord, and Kingler are probably the next best defensive switch-ins to Pupitar, as they can tank an Earthquake with ease and OHKO Pupitar in return with Surf. Physically defensive Relicanth can tank an Earthquake or two if using Protect and easily 2HKO Pupitar with its own Earthquake.

Bulky Hitmonchan, Hitmonchan with Mach Punch, and Machoke can prevent Pupitar from getting too dangerous and pick off weakened ones easily enough. Defensive Bellossom takes a lot from Hidden Power Bug but also easily OHKOes with Hidden Power Grass or Giga Drain. Offensive Water-types like Seadra and Huntail will be able to tank an attack and OHKO in return, but they will leave the exchange heavily battered. It should be noted that Huntail can even use a +1 Pupitar as setup bait if Huntail is at full health, as it can tank an Earthquake, set up Rain Dance, and then outspeed and OHKO the next turn; Timid Huntail is fast enough to not fear Pupitar getting to +2 either. Finally, Piloswine can tank multiple attacks from Pupitar from behind a Reflect and easily OHKO in return with Earthquake.
 
Last edited:
name: Physically/Specially Defensive
move 1: Earthquake
move 2: Rock Slide
move 3: Rest
move 4: Sleep Talk/Toxic
item: Leftovers
nature: Careful/Impish
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def (or 252 SpDef) 4 Spd
 
Pupitar @ Liechi Berry/Salac Berry
Trait: Shed Skin
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Endure

Endure Liechi/Salac Dragon Dance Pupitar. I invented this months back. My INNOVATION. Credit me, bitches. The idea is simple, since people normally dispose of Pupitar by attacking rather than with status, you Endure as they attack to get an extra boost you otherwise wouldn't get. Let's be real, getting a Pupitar with +2 Atk is probably hard otherwise, and if you're running Double-Edge, which doesn't even add additional coverage, as the fourth move, you might as well be running Endure+Liechi. I don't think Leftovers even does anything for Pupitar, considering how easily it dies. Salac is for the scenario that the opponent is applying sufficient offensive pressure that you can't set up anyways, letting you get a speed boost and get an attack off that you wouldn't otherwise. Liechi is better tho.

Rock Slide is there over Hidden Power Rock because let's be real, the flinch chance lets you hax past something that would've otherwise stopped you. And considering how otherwise centralizing and constricting Sableye stall and that other stall team is when you're trying to build offense, you need all the hax you can get.

Also of note is that Pupitar is ultimately a matchup reliant mon: it is threatening to certain types of teams, but if your opponent is running Mach Punch Hitmonchan or Tangela/Bellossom or Whiscash, or if your opponent is applying sufficient offensive pressure, you'll find it hard for Pupitar to do anything at all. And Spikes is as inconsistent as ever, due to Hitmonchan being too good at removing Spikes, and it being too easy to antilead Glalie.

I do not want to type more lest I rant about how much I hate how Smogon's ADV NU meta has turned out, and how much said meta dicks down offense. If you got anything from this post, let it be that this is MY innovation. Maybe even call it a ThriceElitePupitar, or call it a Thricetar or whatever. Have a good day.
 
Last edited:

Mr. Uncompetitive

Ugh Cough! Cough! Splutter!
is a Contributor Alumnus
GP 1/2

Additions, (AC) = add comma
Removals, (RC) = remove comma
Comments


[Overview]

A trolly base 51 Speed, which lets it outspeed maximum Speed base 50s, (AC) and a great offensive typing are enough tools enough to give Pupitar an edge in the NU metagame, but what really makes Pupitar one of the absolute top offensive threats in the tier is its access to Dragon Dance. At just +1, Pupitar packs only slightly less power than Choice Band Relicanth while being able to outspeed every unboosted threat in the metagame. Its access to fantastic offensive STAB moves cannot be understated, and Double-Edge and Hidden Power Bug both give Pupitar the coverage it needs. Even its ability Shed Skin is a gigantic perk that protects it somewhat against sleep, burn, and paralysis, and with a natural immunity to Thunder Wave, Pupitar has an easy time steamrolling over purely defensive teams. The only major downside is that Pupitar is rather slow before boosting, (AC) which can leave it vulnerable to more offensive teams, (RC) but being able to outspeed max Speed base 50s before boosting is pretty golden. (felt distracting when placed here in an otherwise negative sentence...makes more sense earlier on) Outside of Dragon Dance though , (AC) Pupitar is heavily outclassed by the other Rock-types in the tier, (AC) which are far stronger and bulkier, including Graveler, Sudowoodo, and Relicanth.

[SET]
name: Dragon Dance
move 1: Dragon Dance
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Hidden Power Rock / Rock Slide
move 4: Double-Edge / Hidden Power Bug
item: Leftovers
ability: Shed Skin
nature: Jolly
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

Pupitar should ideally only be brought out late-game when the opponent's walls have been sufficiently weakened, set up Dragon Dance immediately, and pummel the opponent foes with the appropriate move. QuakeSlide Earthquake + Rock Slide is great STAB coverage and all that it Pupitar really needs most of the time. Hidden Power Rock is used instead of Rock Slide for accuracy, and the drop in power isn't that significant, however but if you want to use Hidden Power Bug then Rock Slide will need to be used. It should be noted that when using Hidden Power Rock Pupitar only has a 50% chance to OHKO 252 HP Glalie, where whereas it's guaranteed with Rock Slide.

Double-Edge fills out the set and is a great safety move to use when you're unsure of what the opponent will switch to next, although it does come with some recoil. Hidden Power Bug can be used for Grass-types, primarily Bellossom but also Tangela, though defensive versions of both will easily tank a +1 Hidden Power Bug, defensive Tangela even avoiding the 2HKO, and OHKO in return with their STAB moves.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

A Jolly nature is needed to outpace the entire unboosted tier metagame after a single Dragon Dance, as well as ensure that Pupitar can outspeed maximum Speed base Speed 50s before boosting, primarily Timid Bellossom. An Adamant nature can be used, but this leaves Pupitar at only 302 Speed at +1, leaving it outsped by all maximum Speed base 90s and up, including big threats like Venomoth, Haunter, and Plusle. Rest can be used in the last slot to quickly recover health and remove status manually, and it has a high chance of wearing off early thanks to Shed Skin. This is difficult to pull off though, especially considering every team will have multiple moves that will easily 2HKO Pupitar, even extremely defensive teams.

Spikes are a great tool to generally weaken the checks and counters to Pupitar, as all of them are grounded, particularly the Grass- and Water-types. Flareon and Murkrow are good partners to take out the Grass-types that threaten Pupitar easily, while Plusle and Grass-types of your own can take out the Water-types that stand in Pupitar's path. Hidden Power Grass Plusle for example can eliminate Whiscash and nearly all of the other Water-types in the tier. Physically defensive Lickitung can stall this set out through Wish, Seismic Toss, and Protect, making Hitmonchan a good physically offensive teammate to bring with Pupitar.

Pupitar can have a tough time setting up if it can't get in against a Bug- or Flying-type locked into an ineffective move, making an Encore partner or a dual screen partner a good teammate as well to give Pupitar the best chance of setting up as possible. A particularly good dual screen partner in particular is Reflect Piloswine, as it tends to lure in Hitmonchan and can eliminate its threat of Mach Punch before bringing in Pupitar to clean the rest of the opponent's team.

[Other Options]

There are a lot of different ways to play with Pupitar, but almost none of them will be as effective as the set above. Taunt + Dragon Dance or and Substitute + Dragon Dance both have their perks and can secure a sweep where just having the coverage of Double-Edge would not, but finding the time to use both moves can be a daunting task when a good portion of the tier has a move that will hit Pupitar super effectively. A bulky EV spread and the Dragon Dance set above can be done, but Pupitar doesn't have much bulk to speak to of, and the only real benefit would make be making Pupitar harder to KO with Hitmonchan's Mach Punch.

A Choice Band set is certainly doable, and Pupitar has a huge perk in outspeeding maximum Speed Mawile and other base 50s like Piloswine. However, while there may be a bit of a surprise factor to running Choice Band, Pupitar will still be weaker than the likes of Sudowoodo and Graveler, (RC) and would much rather keep its main advantage of outspeeding the tier after a boost rather than having immediately strong moves. Finally, Toxic is an option to get past Lickitung and can cripple defensive Tangela, but those are about the only targets it'll have.

[Checks and Counters]

Physically defensive Tangela is probably the ultimate switch-in to Pupitar, (AC) as it's not 2HKOed by anything a +1 Pupitar can throw at it and easily OHKOes in return with Hidden Power Grass. Even at +5 Pupitar will fail to OHKO defensive Tangela with Hidden Power Bug. Physically defensive Whiscash, Wailord, and Kingler are probably the next best defensive switch-ins to Pupitar, as they can tank an Earthquake with ease and OHKO Pupitar in return with Surf. Physically defensive Lickitung and Shelgon can avoid the 2HKO from Earthquake, stall for recovery with Wish and Protect, and whittle Pupitar down with Seismic Toss or Earthquake, but they are prone to allowing Pupitar to set up another boost or two if not played well.

Bulky Hitmonchan, Hitmonchan with Mach Punch, and Machoke can prevent Pupitar from getting too dangerous and pick off weakened ones easily enough. Defensive Bellossom takes a lot from Hidden Power Bug but also easily OHKOes with Hidden Power Grass or Giga Drain. Offensive Water-types like Seadra and Huntail will be able to tank an attack and OHKO in return, but they will leave the exchange heavily battered. It should be noted that Huntail can even use a +1 Pupitar as setup bait if Huntail is at full health, as it can tank an Earthquake and , (AC) set up Rain Dance, and then outspeed and OHKO the next turn, (RC) and ; (add semicolon) a Timid Huntail has no fear of Pupitar getting to +2 either, as it outspeeds even +2 Pupitar in the rain. (shortened it a bit because it was getting to long/a bit fluffy) Finally, Piloswine can tank multiple attacks from Pupitar from behind a Reflect and easily OHKO in return with Earthquake.
 
Last edited:

Oglemi

Borf
is a Top Contributoris a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnusis a Top Dedicated Tournament Host Alumnus
Implemented Mr. Uncompetitive . Just be careful to not add changes for things that don't actually exist or remove meaning from the analysis. For example, the removing "tier" and replacing it with "metagame" removes the significance of the sentence, as Pupitar literally does outspeed the whole tier after a boost (Voltorb only hits 328, Pupitar hits 331 at +1). The other change was adding "dual" to the screen comment next to Piloswine. Dual screen users are rare in ADV in general since there's simply not enough turns to make use of both of them without Light Clay (the term wasn't coined until its introduction). You'll usually only see one screen on a Pokemon, making them a "screen partner" not a "dual screen partner".

Ultimately minor things, the rest of the changes were great except I'm not changing max to maximum unless TDP makes me >:|

keep it up, I got lots to go to beef up that gp count :)
 

dhelmise

everything is embarrassing
is a Site Content Manageris a Battle Simulator Administratoris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Programmeris a Community Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Top Dedicated Tournament Hostis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnus
Social Media Head
[Overview]

A trolly (i really dont like the use of "trolly" to describe Pupitar's Speed, maybe "advantageous"? i dont know its just a suggestion) base 51 Speed (getting to outspeed max fully invested (it needs to be "maximum" or something else that is allowed that shows that maximum EV Jolly Pupitar outspeeds base 50s of the like) base 50s before boosting is pretty golden) and a great offensive typing are enough tools to give Pupitar an edge in the NU metagame, but what really makes Pupitar one of the absolute top offensive threats in the tier is its access to Dragon Dance. At just +1, Pupitar packs only slightly less power than Choice Band Relicanth while being able to outspeed also outspeeding (subjective) every unboosted threat in the metagame. Its access to fantastic offensive STAB moves cannot be understated, and Double-Edge and Hidden Power Bug both give Pupitar the coverage that it needs. Even its ability Shed Skin is a gigantic perk that protects it somewhat against sleep, burn, and paralysis, and with a natural immunity to Thunder Wave, Pupitar has an easy time steamrolling over purely defensive teams. The only major downside is that Pupitar is rather slow before boosting, which can leave it vulnerable to more offensive teams. Outside of Dragon Dance, though, Pupitar is heavily outclassed by the other Rock-types in the tier, which are far stronger and bulkier, including Graveler, Sudowoodo, and Relicanth.

[SET]
name: Dragon Dance
move 1: Dragon Dance
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Hidden Power Rock / Rock Slide
move 4: Double-Edge / Hidden Power Bug
item: Leftovers
ability: Shed Skin
nature: Jolly
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

Ideally, only bring out Pupitar should ideally only be brought out (the beginning of the sentence being passive and then awkwardly transitioning into passive causes confusion) late-game when the opponent's walls have been sufficiently weakened, set up Dragon Dance immediately, and pummel foes with the appropriate move. QuakeSlide (this isnt coined anymore and we are going off of current standards so it should be Earthquake + Rock Slide) is great STAB coverage and all that Pupitar really needs most of the time. Hidden Power Rock is used instead of Rock Slide for accuracy, and the drop in power isn't that significant, but if you want to use Hidden Power Bug, (AC) then Rock Slide will need to be used. It should be noted that when using Hidden Power Rock, (AC) Pupitar only has a 50% chance to OHKO 252 HP Glalie, whereas it's guaranteed with Rock Slide.

Double-Edge fills out the set and is a great safety move to use when you're unsure of what the opponent will switch to next, although it does come with some recoil. Hidden Power Bug can be used for Grass-types, (RC) primarily like Bellossom but also and Tangela, (RC) though defensive versions of both will easily tank a +1 Hidden Power Bug, (RC) with defensive Tangela even avoiding the 2HKO, (RC) and OHKO Pupitar in return with their STAB moves.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

A Jolly nature is needed for Pupitar to outpace the entire unboosted tier after a single Dragon Dance, (RC) as well as ensure that Pupitar can outspeed maximum investment Speed (can cause the reader some confusion when switching between "base 50 Speed" and "Speed base 50s") base 50s before boosting, primarily Timid Bellossom. An Adamant nature can be used, but this leaves Pupitar at only 302 Speed at +1, leaving it outsped by all maximum investment Speed base 90s and up, including big threats like Venomoth, Haunter, and Plusle. Rest can be used in the last slot to let Pupitar quickly recover health and remove status manually, and it has a high chance of wearing off early thanks to Shed Skin. This is difficult to pull off though, especially considering that every team will have multiple moves that will easily 2HKO Pupitar, even extremely defensive teams. (implied by "every")

Spikes are is (unless you mean multiple layers of spikes) a great tool to generally weaken the checks and counters to Pupitar, as all of them are grounded, particularly the Grass- and Water-types. Flareon and Murkrow are good partners to take out the Grass-types that threaten Pupitar easily, while Plusle and Grass-types of your own can take out the Water-types that stand in Pupitar's path. Hidden Power Grass Plusle for example can eliminate Whiscash and nearly all of the other Water-types in the tier. Physically defensive Lickitung can stall this set out through Wish, Seismic Toss, and Protect, making Hitmonchan a good physically offensive teammate to bring with Pupitar.

Pupitar can have a tough time setting up if it can't get in against a Bug- or Flying-type locked into an ineffective move, making an Encore partner or a dual (didnt you just say that dual screen wasnt used in your post?) screen partner a good teammate as well to give Pupitar the best chance of setting up as possible. A particularly good screen partner is Reflect Piloswine, as it tends to lure in Hitmonchan and can eliminate its threat of Mach Punch before bringing in Pupitar to clean the rest of the opponent's team.

[Other Options]

There are a lot of different ways to play with Pupitar, but almost none of them will be as effective as the set above. Taunt + Dragon Dance and Substitute + Dragon Dance both have their perks and can secure a sweep where just having the coverage of Double-Edge would not, but finding the time to use both moves can be a daunting task when a good portion of the tier has a move that will hit Pupitar super effectively. A bulky EV spread and the Dragon Dance set above can be done, but Pupitar doesn't have much bulk to speak of, and the only real benefit would be making Pupitar harder to KO with Hitmonchan's Mach Punch.

A Choice Band set is certainly doable, and Pupitar has a huge perk in outspeeding max Speed Mawile and other base 50s like Piloswine. However, while there may be a bit of a surprise factor to running Choice Band, Pupitar will still be weaker than the likes of Sudowoodo and Graveler and would much rather keep its main advantage of outspeeding the tier after a boost rather than having immediately strong moves. Finally, Toxic is an option to get past Lickitung and cripple defensive Tangela, but those are about the only targets it'll have it will hit.

[Checks and Counters]

Physically defensive Tangela is probably the ultimate switch-in to Pupitar, as it's not 2HKOed by anything a +1 Pupitar can throw at it and easily OHKOes in return with Hidden Power Grass. Even at +5 Pupitar will fail to OHKO defensive Tangela with Hidden Power Bug. Physically defensive Whiscash, Wailord, and Kingler are probably the next best defensive switch-ins to Pupitar, as they can tank an Earthquake with ease and OHKO Pupitar in return with Surf. Physically defensive Lickitung and Shelgon can avoid the 2HKO from Earthquake, stall for recovery with Wish and Protect, and whittle Pupitar down with Seismic Toss or Earthquake, but they are prone to allowing Pupitar to set up another boost or two if not played well.

Bulky Hitmonchan, Hitmonchan with Mach Punch, and Machoke can prevent Pupitar from getting too dangerous and pick off weakened ones easily enough. Defensive Bellossom takes a lot from Hidden Power Bug but also easily OHKOes with Hidden Power Grass or Giga Drain. Offensive Water-types like Seadra and Huntail will be able to tank an attack and OHKO in return, but they will leave the exchange heavily battered. It should be noted that Huntail can even use a +1 Pupitar as setup bait if Huntail is at full health, as it can tank an Earthquake, set up Rain Dance, and then outspeed and OHKO the next turn; Timid Huntail is fast enough to not fear Pupitar getting to +2 either. Finally, Piloswine can tank multiple attacks from Pupitar from behind a Reflect and easily OHKO in return with Earthquake.
GP 2/2

happy 2.8k to me
 

Bughouse

Like ships in the night, you're passing me by
is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
looks good to me other than a few suggestions:

I would slash rock slide first

I would also mention Intimidate from Mawile and Arbok in checks and counters. Even though they obviously both fear earthquake, they provide -1 to Pupitar's attack and (depending on Pupitar's current health) can force EQ the next turn, since HP Steel/EQ will do a lot. This lets you pivot to something that maybe can't switch in on a +1 Pupitar, but could on a +0 Pupitar (like maybe Chimecho). You could arguably even include Chimecho in Checks and Counters in the first place, since you can EV it to not be 2hkoed at +1 (idk about 2 +1 hp bugs... not positive there) and Psychic 2hkos in return.

TBH Chimecho is probably the main reason to run HP Bug (and I'd be sure to mention that), otherwise HP Flying is pretty much just better. Since it gets run alongside Rock Slide, it gives you a perfectly accurate move to hit Haunter, Tropius, and Yanma, for example. It also hits all the same things (other than Chimecho), while also hitting Hitmonchan, so it can't come in on a predicted HP Bug and Mach Punch. Instead, you eviscerate with HP Flying. It does sacrifice a point of speed, but all that matters for is the tie with other Pupitar. At no other point on the speed tiers does it have an impact.
 

Hogg

grubbing in the ashes
is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus
Hate to offer a bunch of changes after you've already gone through GP, but I hadn't seen this earlier. A few points:

1. Definitely Rock Slide first, HP Rock second (if included at all). As annoying as the accuracy is, the flinch chance more than makes up for it. It also gives you far better chances to 2HKO some pretty major targets like Chimecho and gives you a guaranteed KO on offensive Pelipper.

2. For the last move, I'd say Protect / HP Bug, with Taunt and HP Flying mentioned in set details (helps a ton vs stuff that relies on status like pdef Sab/Licki without praying for Shed Skin activations, stops opposing setup, etc.). Protect is pretty clutch for scouting moves against a lot of the banded 'mons that Pupitar would like to set up on, and just generally good for keeping Pupitar's HP high. It also keeps Pupitar from being 3HKO'd by Seismic Toss/Nightshade. It's almost always what I'd say the default should be. As for the last, basically all of DE's targets are hit harder by Rock Slide/EQ/HP Bug without suffering recoil, and while I get that it's nice to be able to just click DE if you're not sure if your oppo is going to switch in Hitmonchan or Pelipper, I'm not sure that's worth an option. HP Flying is cool for hitting the grasses and Chan, so I'd mention that in set details.

3. With HP Bug, I'd just say that it gets a reliable 2HKO on Chimecho and can take down weakened Grass types such as Bell and Tangela.

4. I think you're way overrating the ability of things like Licki to check Pupitar. Max max Licki still takes 40-48 from +1 EQ, and you can't rely on wishtect for recovery against something with DD, especially when you have no reliably way of threatening Pupitar in return (ie nothing you can do to force it to attack instead of just setting up on you). I'd remove it from Checks/Counters.

EDIT: Sniped by Bughouse. Just one point: "You could arguably even include Chimecho in Checks and Counters in the first place, since you can EV it to not be 2hkoed at +1 (idk about 2 +1 hp bugs... not positive there) and Psychic 2hkos in return." - HP Bug has a chance to 2HKO even max/max Chimecho at +1, though it's a fairly low chance. Max/max is kinda garbage on Chime, though, and HP Bug is a guaranteed 2HKO against most bulky Chime spreads I've seen.
 
Last edited:

Shuckleking87

"Assault vest makes everything better" AV Seaking, BT
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Yea agree with Hogg w rock slide and protect/hp bug, and taunt is cool against like sunny day bellossom or tangela. Flinch chances w rock slide are also a really nice benefit even w the risk of accuracy. I would not agree w putting mawile and arbok under checks and counters necessarily, because you are 99% of the time coming in late game and dragon dancing w pupitar, so even your opponent doubles into a eq resist after the intimdate drop, eq + rock slide/ hp bug from +0 +1 speed pupitar should probably put you at good favor late game.
 

Oglemi

Borf
is a Top Contributoris a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnusis a Top Dedicated Tournament Host Alumnus
Thanks for the input guys, kinda forgot that HP Rock + DE was a hold over from wayyyy back when the tier started, had meant to update it with RS + HP Bug before putting this in GP. oops 9.9

I'll wait a for a little bit for other input before uploading
 
I think there's a lot to be said for Sub/endure Leichi and also I'm pretty sure even offensive bellossom lives any attack even after a boost with minimal investment. Looks pretty good though.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top