SPOILERS! Pokemon Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon News & Discussion

[Pikachu315111]

@Pikachu315111 WutFace

Is what I wrote any darker than these from the actual games:

Rotom Dex Be Messed Up

Alakazam (Sun): As a result of Mega Evolution, its power has been entirely converted into psychic energy, and it has lost all strength in its muscles.
Gengar (Sun): Gengar's relationships are warped. It has no interest in opponents unless it perceives them as prey.
Kangaskhan (Moon): Thanks to Mega Evolution, its child grows. But as the child is good only at fighting and nothing else, its mother feels uneasy about its future.
Pinsir (Sun): The influence of Mega Evolution leaves it in a state of constant excitement. It pierces enemies with its two large horns before shredding them.
Gyarados (Sun): Mega Evolution also affects its brain, leaving no other function except its destructive instinct to burn everything to cinders.
Aerodactyl (Moon): When it Mega Evolves, it becomes more vicious than ever before. Some say that's because its excess of power is causing it pain.
Scizor (Sun): The excess energy that bathes this Pokémon keeps it in constant danger of overflow. It can't sustain a battle over long periods of time.
Absol (Moon): As the energy of Mega Evolution fills it, its fur bristles. What you see on its back are not true wings, and this Pokémon isn't able to fly.
Garchomp (Sun): Excess energy melted its arms and wings, transforming them into giant scythes.)
Garchomp (Moon): Its vaunted wings become scythes, sending it mad with rage. It swings its scythes wildly and slices the ground to pieces.
Lucario (Moon): It readies itself to face its enemies by focusing its mental energies. Its fighting style can be summed up in a single word: heartless.
Slowbro (Sun): All the energy from Mega Evolution poured into the Shellder on its tail, leaving Slowpoke to be swallowed whole.
Sableye (Moon): Supporting a giant heavy jewel, it can't change direction very nimbly and is vulnerable to attack from behind.
Sharpedo (Moon): As a consequence of Mega Evolution, its combative instincts exploded. The yellow marks it bears are scars from a long history of battles.
Glalie (Sun): The excess energy from Mega Evolution spilled over from its mouth, breaking its jaw. It spews endless blizzards.
Glalie (Moon): It envelops prey in its mouth, freezing them instantly. But its jaw is dislocated, so it's unable to eat them.
Salamence (Sun): Anyone standing in its path gets sliced right in two, while this Pokémon continues its flight without interruption.
Salamence (Moon): Mega Evolution fuels its brutality, and it may even turn on the Trainer who raised it. It's been dubbed "the blood-soaked crescent."
Metagross (Moon): Mega Evolution stimulated its brain. It emerged as a ruthless Pokémon that will clutch at any means of ensuring its victories.

 

[Worldie]

Which I guess means that Diancie is the most likely candidate for demythicalising this gen.

I myself am curious of if Diancie will show up in USUM or not. Outside of mewtwo, it's the only Legendary Mega and the only Mythical one.
It already got confirmed Mewtwo will be available (thus, most likely his megastones on top of it again), so that leaves to wonder if Diancie will actually be in game, or just thrown in with an event as well.

 

[Sirya]

I mean the obvious counterpoint is that Kyurem has 660 BST, while Necrozma has 600. For Kyurem, going to 700 BST was a not unreasonable +40 BST, while Necrozma would be a +100 BST jump.

They're Kyurem and Necrozma formes after all, not Reshiram/Zekrom or Solgaleo/Lunala formes.

There's a simple logic behind that. We all know Kyurem and Kyurem (Kyurem-B and Kyurem-W) are both Kyurem's formes, but it doesn't matter what BST Kyurem is. In fact, the reason for this is so obvious that I haven't mentioned it. We can assume a form of Necrozma combined with either Solgaleo or Lunala is more powerful that not only Necrozma, but also the formers Solgaleo and Lunala. It just doesn't have any sense for a Solgaleo/Lunala combination to has less BST. Just imagine this: Solgaleo with 680 and Dusk Mane with 620 (because Necrozma is 600 BST). Hmmm, nope.

I mean, in what world the new forms of Necrozma fused with Solgaleo and Lunala are weaker than Solgaleo and Lunala by themselves. Kyurem follows the same logic. It has 660 BST while Zekrom and Reshiram have 680. It truly doesn't matter what BST Kyurem base form is, it can't be less than 680 because the fused form implies an aument of power. It also can't be the same (680) because a fused form can't be AS powerful as both base forms. I expect 700 BST for Dusk Mane and Dawn Wings. At the very least, 680. Nothing less.

 

[TenshouYoku]

There's a simple logic behind that. We all know Kyurem and Kyurem (Kyurem-B and Kyurem-W) are both Kyurem's formes, but it doesn't matter what BST Kyurem is. In fact, the reason for this is so obvious that I haven't mentioned it. We can assume a form of Necrozma combined with either Solgaleo or Lunala is more powerful that not only Necrozma, but also the formers Solgaleo and Lunala. It just doesn't have any sense for a Solgaleo/Lunala combination to has less BST. Just imagine this: Solgaleo with 680 and Dusk Mane with 620 (because Necrozma is 600 BST). Hmmm, nope.

I mean, in what world the new forms of Necrozma fused with Solgaleo and Lunala are weaker than Solgaleo and Lunala by themselves. Kyurem follows the same logic. It has 660 BST while Zekrom and Reshiram have 680. It truly doesn't matter what BST Kyurem base form is, it can't be less than 680 because the fused form implies an aument of power. It also can't be the same (680) because a fused form can't be AS powerful as both base forms. I expect 700 BST for Dusk Mane and Dawn Wings. At the very least, 680. Nothing less.

Backed by the fact that Necrozma is said to pack a bigger punch than either of the uncombined duos.

No way this guy will have less power than either member of the duo when combined. Saying it will have 620 best is like saying combining something will cause it to be weaker instead which defies logic (at least in Pokemon), especially when it's Necrozma that latches and forms armor of the legendary it was possessing.

Honestly, I never knew Weavile is the signature poke of Cyrus until some of you guys mentioned about it. It's a cold and cruel guy, sure, but it simply doesn't look iconic enough (and ironically it is a group-based poke rather than a solitary poke, unlike Cyrus).

And about the pokedex, maybe they will still introduce the national dex, but you don't need to fill up the whole national dex, but only the regional dex to fulfill the requirements for a shiny charm? This way it wouldn't be extremely unforgiving for new/busy players, but still give you the option to do so.

 

[Pikachu315111]

It also can't be the same (680) because a fused form can't be AS powerful as both base forms. I expect 700 BST for Dusk Mane and Dawn Wings. At the very least, 680. Nothing less.

... That's what I pretty much said. At most 700, at least 680.

Also, are you SURE Necrozma's forms can't be more powerful even if it has the same BST as Solgaleo and Lunala?

Solgaleo: 137/137/107/113/89/97//680
Lunala: 137/113/89/137/107/97//680

So right now all we know is that Necrozma's form has the focused offense stat significantly increased (and its HP will most likely be Necrozma's 97 and its stats are all prime numbers except the BST). So using that as our basis plus some wishful thinking (NO, I'm not wishlisting, I'm making a point. I highly doubt its stats will be this good):

Dusk Mane: 97/173/127/71/109/103//680
Dawn Wings: 97/71/109/173/127/103//680

Does this look like an improvement from original Solgaleo and Lunala?

While BST, it's not everything, stat distribution plays a major factor in it too.

That said, an increase to BST does show an increase in general power so probably will go to 700, as I said I supported several times.

FUN FACT: Would you say Scizor is better than Scyther? If so, guess what, they both have the same BST. ;)

 

[Rarycaris]

I myself am curious of if Diancie will show up in USUM or not. Outside of mewtwo, it's the only Legendary Mega and the only Mythical one.
It already got confirmed Mewtwo will be available (thus, most likely his megastones on top of it again), so that leaves to wonder if Diancie will actually be in game, or just thrown in with an event as well.

The other interesting case is Rayquaza. It doesn’t have a mega stone, so they wouldn’t feel the need to include it because of that, but it would allow a dex entry for its Mega, and for the Primals too (it would be really unusual for Rayquaza to show up without Groudon or Kyogre).

 

[Nexus]

Rayquaza was pretty much confirmed from that magazine cover.

Hide

 

[Zowayix]

Probably old news but I just noticed the magazine cover specifically includes all the banned legends prior to Gen 7 (except that banned trios are represented by their last member), and none of the allowed legends. Wonder if affecting VGC has anything to do with this.

 

[insaneguy1083]

Now the real question is: what will be the stat distributions of UB Adhesive, and how much better of a Specs abuser will Burst be compared to Chandelure.

 

[Not2good]

Now the real question is: what will be the stat distributions of UB Adhesive, and how much better of a Specs abuser will Burst be compared to Chandelure.

We can't really guess any of these and for all we know UB Burst could actually be a physical attacker. Hardly anything was really shown about them other than type and a move or two

 

[TenshouYoku]

Now the real question is: what will be the stat distributions of UB Adhesive, and how much better of a Specs abuser will Burst be compared to Chandelure.

Only arceus can tell until now. Maybe GF can pull out something insane like that physical Burst mentioned by the one above me, or burst be super fast, we will get to know only if someone got one pre-release and cracked it like SM does.

 

[Pikachu315111]

Now the real question is: what will be the stat distributions of UB Adhesive, and how much better of a Specs abuser will Burst be compared to Chandelure.

Who knows. Hi, I see that you're new here! Welcome to Smogon!

Just a friendly reminder, here on Smogon we try not to dive into baseless speculation, what we call "wishlisting". We of course allow speculation to a certain extent, but it has to be coming from something and not just made up (or you go deep into detail about). This is to prevent threads from becoming nothing but members making up features and Pokemon and keeping things focused on the topic and what we know for sure about the topic and what it may entail.

I bring this up because I post above sort of skirts this rule. Normally coming up with a stat spread for a Pokemon who stat spread we don't know about is wishlisting, thus we can't come up with what UB Adhesion, UB Burst, UB Assembly, or Necrozma forms will be aside what little info they tell us about them before release. The point of my post was not coming up with a stat distribution for Necrozma forms but to show that a Pokemon with the same BST as another can be made more powerful via the right stat distribution. In no way do I believe that would be Necrozma forms stats, it was just an example to prove a point.

Just thought I'd clear that up incase I gave the wrong impression to a new member! If you have any questions don't be afraid to ask! Most of us A lot of us Some of us can come off as sounding a bit pompous about Pokemon, but that's because Smogon has stricter rules and once you know them you'll find we're just like every other player trying to enjoy the games by sticking to reality as close as we can. :)

Anyway, to actually address your question: who knows. We barely know anything about UB Adhesive aside it being Poison-type and having the Ability Beast Boost. There's some speculation that due to its design and being the signature Pokemon of the Ultra Recon Squad who you'll be encountering a few times through the story that maybe it'll have an evolution line, but other than that speculation with it stops as it's just a complete unknown.

As for Burst, all we knows if high Special Attack, Fire/Ghost typing, and signature Fire move "Mind Blown" which has the effect of halving its HP. So whatever its stats are, Special Attack better be high (which is likely as that's the focused stat and its an Ultra Beast) as well as Power of "Mind Blown" (which would also make for a promising high powered Fire-type Z-Move/Inferno Overdrive; at least 195 if not 200).

 

[Sirya]

... That's what I pretty much said. At most 700, at least 680.

Also, are you SURE Necrozma's forms can't be more powerful even if it has the same BST as Solgaleo and Lunala?

Solgaleo: 137/137/107/113/89/97//680
Lunala: 137/113/89/137/107/97//680

So right now all we know is that Necrozma's form has the focused offense stat significantly increased (and its HP will most likely be Necrozma's 97 and its stats are all prime numbers except the BST). So using that as our basis plus some wishful thinking (NO, I'm not wishlisting, I'm making a point. I highly doubt its stats will be this good):

Dusk Mane: 97/173/127/71/109/103//680
Dawn Wings: 97/71/109/173/127/103//680

Does this look like an improvement from original Solgaleo and Lunala?

While BST, it's not everything, stat distribution plays a major factor in it too.

That said, an increase to BST does show an increase in general power so probably will go to 700, as I said I supported several times.

FUN FACT: Would you say Scizor is better than Scyther? If so, guess what, they both have the same BST. ;)

I know BST is not a definitive answer in terms of potencial when it comes to competitive value. Like most of you, I have been playing competitive Pokémon since DPPl, I know what sinergy, type combination or movepool is, and how important they are. Some of the most dangerous Pokémon (or broken) we know doesn't even have an enormous BST, and there are examples of Pokémon with a good BST that aren't broken. Look at Kyurem-B, while it remains in the OU tier, backed by its 700 BST, other things like M-Mawile were banned last gen.

But it is important to think about this from Game Freak's perspective. When Game Freak creates a "fused Pokémon", its concept of more powerful isn't a better distributed BST. You are totally correct saying Necrozma would be more threatening with a redistribution of its BST, I just don't believe that is what Game Freak has in mind.

 

[Kurona]

I myself am curious of if Diancie will show up in USUM or not. Outside of mewtwo, it's the only Legendary Mega and the only Mythical one.
It already got confirmed Mewtwo will be available (thus, most likely his megastones on top of it again), so that leaves to wonder if Diancie will actually be in game, or just thrown in with an event as well.

I feel it's definitely possible. We've already seen them release Deoxys from event-exclusivity, so there is some precedent.

 

[Deleted User 400951]

I feel it's definitely possible. We've already seen them release Deoxys from event-exclusivity, so there is some precedent.

Do note that 1. Deoxys was a fan favorite 2. Deoxys belonged in Hoenn 3. I don't think they could have profited from Deoxys staying a mythical as much, definitely not compared to the hype it'd give ORAS with it being there. Diancie is a fan favorite of sorts (mostly for waifu appeal), but it doesn't really belong in Hoenn and I don't doubt there's more to profit from it staying a mythical. So nah, I doubt it. Darkrai might imo, especially since it lost a lot of its appeal with the void nerf.

 

[Kurona]

Do note that 1. Deoxys was a fan favorite 2. Deoxys belonged in Hoenn 3. I don't think they could have profited from Deoxys staying a mythical as much, definitely not compared to the hype it'd give ORAS with it being there. Diancie is a fan favorite of sorts (mostly for waifu appeal), but it doesn't really belong in Hoenn and I don't doubt there's more to profit from it staying a mythical. So nah, I doubt it. Darkrai might imo, especially since it lost a lot of its appeal with the void nerf.

True, but I was simply making the point that they don't seem afraid anymore to take away the event-exclusivity from past event Pokémon. If they wanna remove Diancie from that for some reason - like, say, this whole give-them-all-the-mega-pokemon thing they seem to be on - they'll do so.

 

[Project_Mars]

The thing is, Deoxys is still considered a mythic, so its inclusion in the Delta Story is likely a one-time kinda thing, UNLESS they can find a strong story justification to include another mythic in a side-story. Probably. Another thing to point out is that Deoxys being in the Delta Story did make a bit of sense with how it was set up, so there is that.

Incidentally: I think we can safely assume the Kanto and Hoenn starters will not be in the USUM Pokedex... but I could see them changing the Island Scan Pokemon to include them.

 

[Martin890]

Guys. Ten Carat Hill is a thing and Carbink appear there naturally.And where there's Carbink, there's a Diancie somewhere deep. So IF they decide to go with the entire "all Mega mons available" thing, then Carat Hill is the best bet where a event could happen.

But like I said, this is all a very, very big IF (which I'm also very doubtful of).

 

[Pikachu315111]

The thing is, Deoxys is still considered a mythic, so its inclusion in the Delta Story is likely a one-time kinda thing, UNLESS they can find a strong story justification to include another mythic in a side-story. Probably. Another thing to point out is that Deoxys being in the Delta Story did make a bit of sense with how it was set up, so there is that.

Deoxys status as a Mythic is up to debate. ORAS calls it as such but the website now refers to it as a Legendary. You're probably right that the thing in ORAS was a one time thing for Deoxys, but at the same time since you can encounter a Deoxys every save file that now means there's an infinite amount of Deoxys that can be created thus breaking the Mythical status (without hacking there's a limited amount of Mew, Celebi, Jirachi, Manaphy, Darkrai, Shaymin, Arceus, Victini, Keldeo, Meloetta, Genesect, Diancie, Hoopa, Volcanion, Magearna, & Marshadow. And past games that awarded these Pokemon were programmed to only generate once per game copy, meaning you'd have to buy a new copy of the game to get generate another one). As long as you can connect ORAS to the Pokemon Bank, Deoxys is no longer a Mythical Pokemon, just a Legendary.

Incidentally: I think we can safely assume the Kanto and Hoenn starters will not be in the USUM Pokedex... but I could see them changing the Island Scan Pokemon to include them.

Why just those two? Honestly none of the Starters are difficult to get as long as you gotten the last three games (XY, ORAS, and SM). If we were to compare the most recent way to catch them:

Kanto: Given as a second Starter in XY after first Badge.
Johto: SM's Island Scan.
Hoenn: Starters for ORAS.
Sinnoh: Given as reward for getting into ORAS's Hall of Fame a second time.
Unova: SM's Island Scan.
Kalos: Starters for XY.
Alola: Starters for SM.

Honestly, if any Starters deserved to replace the Johto and Unova Starters in USUM, it'll the Sinnoh Starters and second is a tie between the Kanto and Kalos Starters (maybe make them version exclusive?).

EDIT: Ah, right, they have Megas. Right, probably be made Island Scan than.

Guys. Ten Carat Hill is a thing and Carbink appear there naturally.And where there's Carbink, there's a Diancie somewhere deep. So IF they decide to go with the entire "all Mega mons available" thing, then Carat Hill is the best bet where a event could happen.

But like I said, this is all a very, very big IF (which I'm also very doubtful of).

Everyone keep an eye out for a Sableye with pink gems...

 

[Project_Mars]

Why just those two?

Starters in general, but it seemed like someone was thinking they may be in the Alola dex due to the fact that they have Megas.

 

[sin(pi)]

Pinsir (Sun): The influence of Mega Evolution leaves it in a state of constant excitement. It pierces enemies with its two large horns before shredding them.

"Pokémon is a game for children" ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

 

[R_N]

God I love the over the top grimness for mega entries SO MUCH. I kind of hope Dexio or Sina (or maybe SYcamore gets a cameo) get to comment on it and how the bond is needed to keep them from going berserk; i'm pretty sure that's the intent but it'd be nice to spell it out.
i really hope there's a national dex just so we can get entries for the kanto starters, mewtwo and diancie megas. All the other entries can be pulled for prior games just give me this, please

 

[Siggu]

God I love the over the top grimness for mega entries SO MUCH. I kind of hope Dexio or Sina (or maybe SYcamore gets a cameo) get to comment on it and how the bond is needed to keep them from going berserk; i'm pretty sure that's the intent but it'd be nice to spell it out.
i really hope there's a national dex just so we can get entries for the kanto starters, mewtwo and diancie megas. All the other entries can be pulled for prior games just give me this, please

I also like how dark Mega Evolving is actually like - in Super Mystery Dungeon, if you Mega Evolve a Pokemon, it eventually goes berserk and plows over anything, be it enemy, ally or terrain.

Though I wonder if it was made as an excuse for not making any more Mega Evolutions - in that, lore-wise, it's a really bad idea.

 

[Pikachu315111]

I kind of hope Dexio or Sina (or maybe SYcamore gets a cameo) get to comment on it and how the bond is needed to keep them from going berserk; i'm pretty sure that's the intent but it'd be nice to spell it out.

Thinking about it, that sort of what the anime implied too with Korrina having a problem with controlling her Mega Lucario until they were able to synchronize with each other.

Though I wonder if it was made as an excuse for not making any more Mega Evolutions - in that, lore-wise, it's a really bad idea.

DING DING DING! We have a winner!

Though as R_N said, as long as the Pokemon and trainer share a strong bond to keep the Mega Pokemon under control there should be no reason in-game why there can't be any more Mega Evolutions. Not to mention how society looks upon the mechanic shouldn't change the fact that Mega Stones form naturally so it shouldn't stop the formation of new Mega Stones.

 

[Kanburi]

Though I wonder if it was made as an excuse for not making any more Mega Evolutions - in that, lore-wise, it's a really bad idea.

Maybe they got lazy and figured it would be kinda insane to eventually have a mega evolution for every fully evolved Pokemon out there, including legendaries. Even just giving out all the mega stones would be a headache.