Pokémon Movepool Oddities & Explanations

Lycanroc doesn't get Earthquake, but Wishiwashi does. I just noticed this because I'm using both of them in my Sun playthrough.
Well, it's not hard to imagine why. Lycanroc's a lithe design more focused around slashes and sneaky hits and the like rather than all-around destruction. Wishiwashi school form is a huge behemoth that would probably cause an Earthquake merely for touching the ground.
Wishiwashi in general, I think, would be a bad example for this thread because most of its most outlandish attacks are clearly there for the school form. Unless it learns Fire Punch there's not much to say.
 

Pikachu315111

Ranting & Raving!
is a Community Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributor
Wishiwashi in general, I think, would be a bad example for this thread because most of its most outlandish attacks are clearly there for the school form. Unless it learns Fire Punch there's not much to say.
Oh well let's see, I'm sure there are some moves it gets that are odd:

By Level:
Endeavor:
Okay, not a "why?" but more of a "really?". Wishiwashi's gimmick requires it to have its HP above 25%, otherwise its it puny Solo Form. What's the point of keeping Wishiwashi alive at 1 HP? Okay, it's not totally useless I guess, if Wishiwashi is already below 25% I guess you can use it to make the opponent waste one more move on it or its a Double Battle you could try healing it. But overall I think most players would rather focus on the time its in School Form and give it as many strong moves as it can to hit hard while it still can.
Double-Edge: Couldn't it just replace the Wishiwashi that got hurt?

By TM:
Double Team:
"Wishiwashi, use Double Team!" *Wishiwashi School Form breaks apart and the Solo Forms swim around the opponent/form multiple (but smaller) School Forms* "... Not what I had in mind but I guess it works"
Rest: Hey, Wishiwashi School Form, how about you only have some of you fall asleep while half of you stay awake, that way the ones who are hurt can heal and you can still battle. Unless when in School Form the Wishiwashi become a hive mind.
Attract: So does this mean all the Wishiwashi that form up are the same gender? Like you can't even say its a hive mind thing as its the opponent who's effected.
Round: Shouldn't this be at max power when in School Form, even if using it as a hive mind?
Sleep Talk: While you can rely on the hive mind theory why they all use the same move, at the same time it would be funny thinking about it launching 3 attacks at the same time.
Substitute: "Wishiwashi, use Substitute!" *One Solo Form swims in front/Batch of Solo Form swim in front and form a small School Form* "You're really beginning to stretch the meaning of my commands here"
Confide: The voice... all the voices... telling me so many things... MAKE THEM STOP! *Special Attack stat drops -6 stages*

Moves It Should Get:
Attack/Defend/Heal Order: The move doesn't specifically says it has to Combee (and they can always change the attack animation), just says the Pokemon calls for its underlings which, to the main Wishiwashi, the others are.
Liquidation: I'm going to rant about this one in a sec.
Fake Tears: So its Solo design makes it look like its crying, learns Tearful Look but not Fake Tears?
Tri Attack: I'm pretty sure there's more than three Wishiwashi that makes up the School Form.
And a batch of others I could try justifying by saying if Wishiwashi actually could command the other Wishiwashi could have a lot of utility but I won't go into that.

OTHER ODDITY:
Liquidation: Okay, what is the "rule" for this move? Because as far as I can tell a lot more Pokemon, or rather Physical Water-types, should be able to learn it.
 
Oh well let's see, I'm sure there are some moves it gets that are odd:

By Level:
Endeavor:
Okay, not a "why?" but more of a "really?". Wishiwashi's gimmick requires it to have its HP above 25%, otherwise its it puny Solo Form. What's the point of keeping Wishiwashi alive at 1 HP? Okay, it's not totally useless I guess, if Wishiwashi is already below 25% I guess you can use it to make the opponent waste one more move on it or its a Double Battle you could try healing it. But overall I think most players would rather focus on the time its in School Form and give it as many strong moves as it can to hit hard while it still can.
Double-Edge: Couldn't it just replace the Wishiwashi that got hurt?

By TM:
Double Team:
"Wishiwashi, use Double Team!" *Wishiwashi School Form breaks apart and the Solo Forms swim around the opponent/form multiple (but smaller) School Forms* "... Not what I had in mind but I guess it works"
Rest: Hey, Wishiwashi School Form, how about you only have some of you fall asleep while half of you stay awake, that way the ones who are hurt can heal and you can still battle. Unless when in School Form the Wishiwashi become a hive mind.
Attract: So does this mean all the Wishiwashi that form up are the same gender? Like you can't even say its a hive mind thing as its the opponent who's effected.
Round: Shouldn't this be at max power when in School Form, even if using it as a hive mind?
Sleep Talk: While you can rely on the hive mind theory why they all use the same move, at the same time it would be funny thinking about it launching 3 attacks at the same time.
Substitute: "Wishiwashi, use Substitute!" *One Solo Form swims in front/Batch of Solo Form swim in front and form a small School Form* "You're really beginning to stretch the meaning of my commands here"
Confide: The voice... all the voices... telling me so many things... MAKE THEM STOP! *Special Attack stat drops -6 stages*

Moves It Should Get:
Attack/Defend/Heal Order:
The move doesn't specifically says it has to Combee (and they can always change the attack animation), just says the Pokemon calls for its underlings which, to the main Wishiwashi, the others are.
Liquidation: I'm going to rant about this one in a sec.
Fake Tears: So its Solo design makes it look like its crying, learns Tearful Look but not Fake Tears?
Tri Attack: I'm pretty sure there's more than three Wishiwashi that makes up the School Form.
And a batch of others I could try justifying by saying if Wishiwashi actually could command the other Wishiwashi could have a lot of utility but I won't go into that.

OTHER ODDITY:
Liquidation:
Okay, what is the "rule" for this move? Because as far as I can tell a lot more Pokemon, or rather Physical Water-types, should be able to learn it.
Suddenly Wishiwashi with a Parental Bond variation sounds funny.

About Endeavor, it's possibly so that Wishiwashi is not completely useless if it cannot get back to School Form.

For the matter about moves it does not get... Wishiwashi gets no multi-hit moves even though it would fit on School Form (perhaps by attacking all at the same time?)
 

Pikachu315111

Ranting & Raving!
is a Community Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributor
Suddenly Wishiwashi with a Parental Bond variation sounds funny.

About Endeavor, it's possibly so that Wishiwashi is not completely useless if it cannot get back to School Form.

For the matter about moves it does not get... Wishiwashi gets no multi-hit moves even though it would fit on School Form (perhaps by attacking all at the same time?)
I thought of the multi-strikes moves but after looking through them and their description I decided they didn't really fit. Double Slap, Tail Slap, and maybe Bullet Seed at most, but the others require body parts it doesn't have.
 
Well, it's not hard to imagine why. Lycanroc's a lithe design more focused around slashes and sneaky hits and the like rather than all-around destruction. Wishiwashi school form is a huge behemoth that would probably cause an Earthquake merely for touching the ground.
Wishiwashi in general, I think, would be a bad example for this thread because most of its most outlandish attacks are clearly there for the school form. Unless it learns Fire Punch there's not much to say.
An abbrievaited list of lithe or oddly shaped fully evolved things that get Earthquake:
-Primeape
-Poliwrath
-The hitmons
-Chansey?!
-Pinsir???
-Girafarig
-Corsola
-Altaria. Ok this isnt lithe but its literally a cloud bird
-Archeops
-Gogoat
-Gumshoos
-Komala

At the very least, if this was the intent, they could have given Midnight Lycanroc the attack. But this would have involved do anything interesting with the differentiating the two formes.

I was going to complain about how the dog doesnt even get dig until I remembered that Dig is no longer a TM anymore. Guessing it gets it when we get move tutors and Dig is inevitably added there.
 

Jibaku

Who let marco in here????
is a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Two-Time Past SPL Champion
Endeavor's just there as a fallback if things go wrong.

And speaking of things going wrong, for some reason gamefreak decided that Tapu Bulu cannot learn Double Team.
 
While true this does bring up the oddity that Tapu Bulu kinda...


kinda in some odd company here, to the point where I wouldn't be surprised if this was just an oversight
Not like they haven't done it before. *looks at Attract Cryogonal* Perhaps they could fix or patch it? It is only one TM although probably not the most significant one.

OTHER ODDITY
:
Liquidation:
Okay, what is the "rule" for this move? Because as far as I can tell a lot more Pokemon, or rather Physical Water-types, should be able to learn it.
I don't know how close to wishlisting this is, but Liquidation feels like a move that could end up on a move tutor or redistributed as a moveset shuffle later this generation. I see it as something like Spiky Shield, which was just on Chesnaught at first but was then given to Cacturne and Maractus in ORAS (and then Togdemaru in SuMo). Alternatively, it could end up like Gunk Shot in Gen IV. Octillery was the only Pokemon you could get it on in DP before beating the game (then a handful of other mediocre Poison-types), and then move tutors saved the day in Platinum and now everyone can throw highly damaging trash at people.
 

Cresselia~~

Junichi Masuda likes this!!
I think Dazzling Gleam is a strange one.
You have approximately like half of the psychic Pokemon able to learn it, but why doesn't the other half learn it?
What makes a psychic Pokemon able to learn Dazzling Gleam , and what makes a psychic Pokemon not able to learn it?

I still can't understand why Gengar gets Sludge Wave through event but cannot learn it through TM.

Or Nasty Plot for that matter, given Gengar's well-established traits... but thinking it again, I'd not like to see a Nasty Plot Mega Gengar any time soon.
I hope it's because they knew Gengar would be OP if it gets Nasty Plot.
 
I think Dazzling Gleam is a strange one.
You have approximately like half of the psychic Pokemon able to learn it, but why doesn't the other half learn it?
What makes a psychic Pokemon able to learn Dazzling Gleam , and what makes a psychic Pokemon not able to learn it?


I hope it's because they knew Gengar would be OP if it gets Nasty Plot.

I'm pretty sure this was brought up before, but it's still an interesting case. So out of bored curiosity I dexsearched the Psychic-types who don't learn Dazzling Gleam on Showdown:

Arceus-Psychic, Beheeyem, Beldum, Bronzong, Bronzor, Bruxish, Cosmoem, Cosmog, Cresselia, Darmanitan-Zen, Deoxys, Duosion, Elgyem, Espurr, Exeggcute, Exeggutor, Gothita, Gothitelle, Gothorita, Grumpig, Hoopa, Inkay, Jynx, Latias, Latios, Lugia, Lunatone, Malamar, Medicham, Meditite, Meowstic, Metagross, Metang, Mewtwo, Mime Jr., Necrozma, Oranguru, Oricorio-Pa'u, Raichu-Alola, Reuniclus, Silvally-Psychic, Slowbro, Slowking, Slowpoke, Smoochum, Solgaleo, Solosis, Solrock, Spoink, Swoobat, Unown, Wobbuffet, Woobat, Wynaut.

Ruling out those that get Psychic-type as a form (Silvally and Arceus are counted here), jokemons (Wobbuffet), and Pokemon that have a limited movepool as part of their gimmick (Beldum) leaves us with:

Arceus-Psychic, Beheeyem, Beldum, Bronzong, Bronzor, Bruxish, Cosmoem, Cosmog, Cresselia, Darmanitan-Zen, Deoxys, Duosion, Elgyem, Espurr, Exeggcute, Exeggutor, Gothita, Gothitelle, Gothorita, Grumpig, Hoopa, Inkay, Jynx, Latias, Latios, Lugia, Lunatone, Malamar, Medicham, Meditite, Meowstic, Metagross, Metang, Mewtwo, Mime Jr., Necrozma, Oranguru, Oricorio-Pa'u, Raichu-Alola, Reuniclus, Silvally-Psychic, Slowbro, Slowking, Slowpoke, Smoochum, Solgaleo, Solosis, Solrock, Spoink, Swoobat, Unown, Wobbuffet, Woobat, Wynaut
The Japanese name for Dazzling Gleam is Magical Shine, so I think it's fair to rule out those that are based on machinery (Beldum), extraterrestrials or space objects (Deoxys/Solrock/Lunatone), or biological processes (Solosis line). While some of them may seem unnatural, they are all inspired by phenomena that has been observed or theorized in scientific field (not a scientist but I am 90% sure most scientists do not consider magic in their reasoning.) I will leave Cresselia and Necrozma in and explain that later. Mewtwo is included here because it is a man-made Pokemon and while Team Rocket R&D are quite skilled, I would not call them magical.

Arceus-Psychic, Beheeyem, Beldum, Bronzong, Bronzor, Bruxish, Cosmoem, Cosmog, Cresselia, Darmanitan-Zen, Deoxys, Duosion, Elgyem, Espurr, Exeggcute, Exeggutor, Gothita, Gothitelle, Gothorita, Grumpig, Hoopa, Inkay, Jynx, Latias, Latios, Lugia, Lunatone, Malamar, Medicham, Meditite, Meowstic, Metagross, Metang, Mewtwo, Mime Jr., Necrozma, Oranguru, Oricorio-Pa'u, Raichu-Alola, Reuniclus, Silvally-Psychic, Slowbro, Slowking, Slowpoke, Smoochum, Solgaleo, Solosis, Solrock, Spoink, Swoobat, Unown, Wobbuffet, Woobat, Wynaut
Some of these can be explained right off the bat: Bruxish draws inspiration from groupers and reef triggerfish. While both can be very colorful to the eye, nothing about them can really be considered magical and neither are bioluminescent under normal circumstances. (Bruxish is a design that, to me, is in the vein of Durant or Stantler in that it's very literal about what animal it's based off of) Similar logic can be explained for Woobat and Swoobat, and the Exeggcute line as bats and eggs are hardly candidates for light generation. Mime Jr. is probably cursed with the shallow movepool of a baby Pokemon, seeing as its evolution gets the move and STAB on it anyways. Lugia, while a sea god of some capability, is not considered a light generator or a particularly "shiny" Pokemon (it leaves that to based fire turkey Ho-Oh). The Slowpoke line could be considered as too "dumb" to learn it, where Slowking represents the upper limit of the species intelligence and is analogous to real humans, who can't really use magic. Solgaleo might be an oversight as its counterpart Lunala actually does get Dazzling Gleam, or it could represent the connection that Fairy Pokemon have to the moon (many Fairy-types get Moonlight and Moonblast is one of the strongest Fairy-type moves). Solgaleo substitutes that with a myriad of Fire-type moves that Lunala can't get. Meditite and Medicham are based off of meditating warriors; while their training is impressive it isn't beyond human capability and thus Dazzling Gleam shouldn't be an obvious consideration. (plus a hermit in a cave who lives on berries is not gonna be shiny looking) While not a great reason, Hoopa misses out perhaps to emphasize its vulnerability to Dark-types (though it does get Focus Blast, so at that point I got nothing).


The Inexplicables:

Espurr and Meowstic have access to other Fairy-type moves such as Draining Kiss, and other cat/mammal Pokemon such as Espeon and Cinccino have access to the move, so why not them? Humanoid Pokemon including Meloetta and Alakazam (and fucking Hypno) get access to this, so there's no reason the Smoochum line, Oranguru, and Gothita shouldn't get it (Gothitelle is even based off astral projection, which is pretty darn close to magic for me). Inkay and Malamar are based off of squid, which are notorious for putting on light shows, especially when mating (if Starmie gets it for a gem, these two definitely deserve it). Talking of gems, Spoink and Grumpig have some pretty sizeable pearls that could refract light (they can also learn Signal Beam, Power Gem and Flash). And talking of refraction, Necrozma is basically all about shining light (its fucking signature move is Prismatic Laser). It does get a slight pass due to its movepool being very weirdly limited in other ways. Cresselia, though, is intrinsically linked with the moon (Fairy connection, it even gets Moonblast). Lunala (another lunar mon) gets this so why not the original crescent? (fuck right off lunatone)


So in conclusion, there are reasons for some of the Psychic type getting it because it's quite a varied type when it comes to inspiration. But Game Freak's hands of judgment strike some Gleam-less Pokemon harder than others.
 
Grass is pretty weird with it too.

Grass types that get Dazzling Gleam: Oddish line, Hoppip line, Celebi, Budew line, Cherubi line, Shaymin, Cottonee line, Morelull line, Bounsweet line, Tapu Bulu. Excluding the things that are part Fairy-type and/or legendaries, you've mostly got flowers and a few fruit. But not all of them: the Petilil and Sunkern lines are distinctly absent (I guess the Bulbasaur and Chikorita lines as well).

On a side note, Dazzling Gleam is yet another move based on generating light that Ampharos doesn't learn.
 

Pikachu315111

Ranting & Raving!
is a Community Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributor
And yet Sudowoodo does not learn Camouflage. Yeah, it sucks at it but still.
You answered your own question: It sucks at it. That's the joke, its a Rock-type who pretends its plant but when you water it, something a Grass-type would have no problem with, it hurts it.
 
You answered your own question: It sucks at it. That's the joke, its a Rock-type who pretends its plant but when you water it, something a Grass-type would have no problem with, it hurts it.

Also, I think Camouflage is intended towards Pokemon that have a less fixed camouflage. Sudowoodo is pretty solidly established as a tree disguise, but the likes of Staryu and Stunfisk are based on animals that can at least change their coloration in some way. Deerling changes with the seasons so it changes its disguise and qualifies, while Skrelp/Dragalge and Mothim are based on animals that aren't tailored to one specific camouflage set. Zygarde can presumably adapt its cells and cores to different variations.
 
But it learns Mimic by level up, which fits more than Camouflage.
Mimicry & Cryptic behavior are just ways one has to camouflage itself, they're not separate things. It doesn't change the fact that Sudowoodo is camouflaging itself as a tree. Yeah sure, sprinkling water on it gives it away, but a disguise doesn't have to be perfect.

Mimic does fit better, thematically, however that doesn't justify it not learning Comouflage as well. It's basically like saying Piplup shouldn't learn Bubble because it learns Bubblebeam. Get what I'm saying?

Also, I think Camouflage is intended towards Pokemon that have a less fixed camouflage. Sudowoodo is pretty solidly established as a tree disguise, but the likes of Staryu and Stunfisk are based on animals that can at least change their coloration in some way. Deerling changes with the seasons so it changes its disguise and qualifies, while Skrelp/Dragalge and Mothim are based on animals that aren't tailored to one specific camouflage set. Zygarde can presumably adapt its cells and cores to different variations.
Yeah, kinda. I feel like Camouflage is intended to work as a parallel to the ability some irl animals have to color shift. The problem is giving such a general name to something so specific. I really do think the problem lies with how the move was named rather than its distribution ( or lack thereof ).

Moves It Should Get:
Attack/Defend/Heal Order: The move doesn't specifically says it has to Combee (and they can always change the attack animation), just says the Pokemon calls for its underlings which, to the main Wishiwashi, the others are.
Anyway, this one caught my attention too. Wishiwashi's Schooling sort of implies they're friends, colleagues rather than underlings to the main Wishiwashi. Besides, if Wishwashi could really boss the other Wishiwashi around they wouldn't leave the damn thing to fend for itself when shit hit the fan lol.
 

Pikachu315111

Ranting & Raving!
is a Community Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributor
Anyway, this one caught my attention too. Wishiwashi's Schooling sort of implies they're friends, colleagues rather than underlings to the main Wishiwashi. Besides, if Wishwashi could really boss the other Wishiwashi around they wouldn't leave the damn thing to fend for itself when shit hit the fan lol.
But, wouldn't friends stick around when the going gets rough? The other Wishiwashi run off like "look, we barely know you, we just came to help but being it looks like you're about to lose we're out". That more sounds like minion-ish behavior, sticking with the boss because they want some power but when the boss starts losing they leave because the boss can no longer offer them anything.
 
But, wouldn't friends stick around when the going gets rough? The other Wishiwashi run off like "look, we barely know you, we just came to help but being it looks like you're about to lose we're out". That more sounds like minion-ish behavior, sticking with the boss because they want some power but when the boss starts losing they leave because the boss can no longer offer them anything.

I mean, they are fish. They're not the brightest brains in the sea. I think a lot of marine predators can break up balls (like schools) of fish and then they all get torn apart, which may be why it can't get heal order. On phone so sorry if this is incoherent.
 
That being said about Wishiwashi, there's the topic on it learning Attract and it having a single gender when in School form.

I can understand not having it change genders in-battle (as in, make it genderless because there are both males and females), but it does seem a little weird that every single Wishiwashi is of the same gender, and the opposite-gendered target is falling in love with an entire school of Wishiwashi.
 
That being said about Wishiwashi, there's the topic on it learning Attract and it having a single gender when in School form.

I can understand not having it change genders in-battle (as in, make it genderless because there are both males and females), but it does seem a little weird that every single Wishiwashi is of the same gender, and the opposite-gendered target is falling in love with an entire school of Wishiwashi.
Well, I'm not sure how Wishiwashi School-Form has a single gender, but I suppose it can attract other Pokemon because the other Pokemon mistake it for one single fish (instead of a school of many).
 
Why doesn't Typhlosion get earth power? It's the 'volcano pokemon' and the whole point of Typhlosion is that it can cause eruptions, yet it doesn't learn the eruption move other than eruption itself.

Really, I'm more upset with this than I should. I want to like Typhlosion but it's movepool is just.... so bad. If it got earth power at around level 30-40 he could be usable in-game, possibly even good. But right now it sucks because its only special coverage consists of focus blast and solar beam. I honestly rather use Magcargo as my fire type in HG/SS
 

Pikachu315111

Ranting & Raving!
is a Community Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributor
Delibird dex entries:
Gold/Stadium 2/LeafGreen/HeartGold: It carries food all day long. There are tales about lost people who were saved by the food it had.
Crystal: It always carries its food with it, wherever it goes. If attacked, it throws its food at the opponent.
Ruby/Sapphire: Delibird carries its food bundled up in its tail. There once was a famous explorer who managed to reach the peak of Mt. Everest thanks to one of these Pokémon sharing its food.
Emerald: It carries food bundled up in its tail. There was a famous explorer who managed to scale Mt. Everest thanks to a Delibird sharing its food.
Diamond/Pearl/Black/White/X: It carries food rolled up in its tail. It has the habit of sharing food with people lost in mountains.
Black 2/White 2/Y: It carries food all day long. When someone is lost in the mountains, it shares that food.
Omega Ruby/Alpha Sapphire: Delibird carries its food bundled up in its tail. There once was a famous explorer who managed to reach the peak of the world's highest mountain, thanks to one of these Pokémon sharing its food.
Moon: It has a generous habit of sharing its food with people and Pokémon, so it's always scrounging around for more food.
Doesn't get the Ability Pickup, Symbiosis, or even Unburden. Instead its Hidden Ability is a copy of one of its normal Abilities.

Another one: why doesn't Deoxys get Regenerator? Like is it able to regenerate an anime exclusive thing? Though honestly it should get a different Ability for all forms...
 
Last edited:
Delibird doesn't get the Ability Pickup, Symbiosis, or even Unburden. Instead its Hidden Ability is a copy of one of its normal Abilities.

Another one: why doesn't Deoxys get Regenerator? Like is it able to regenerate an anime exclusive thing? Though honestly it should get a different Ability for all forms...
Delibird is a lost case. The moment it got a Hidden Ability that was just its normal ability with another name, it's clear they will never make it even not absolutely atrocious.

On Deoxys's case... well, it's a Gen III Pokemon and Regenerator is a Gen V ability. Same with Pokemon like Empoleon getting Defiant instead of Competitive (which is the same thing except better for it).

Now, Deoxys could have had Regenerator as a Hidden Ability, but for some reason... it has none.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 3)

Top