Pokémon Movepool Oddities & Explanations

QuentinQuonce

formerly green_typhlosion
i think so many of my opinions on discussions this sub-forum had recently (level scaling, HMs/field moves, TMs etc) warp back to me wishing the badges were as relevant mechanically as they are in lore. like, they Should be doing something beyond being glorified checkpoints (which they do in the pre-alola games by unlocking field moves!)

alola found a way to make trials and grand trials feel important and you just get z-crystals you don't always use, so gym badges can definitely feel that way too, and even better since you can avoid the literal checkpoints alola had.
Contrariwise, I'm incredibly glad Gen IV did away with the stat/type boosts each badge conferred in previous games. Neat as they were to read about in the game manuals, I'm always kind of "meh" on any boost that's only relevant in the main campaign and tbh with how much easier the games have been steadily getting further advantages are really not necessary.

But yeah it would be good for badges to feel a bit more meaningful. Obedience is fine (and if we're going to have open world games it should be done properly and be based on the number of badges, not the badges themselves) but I actually think it'd be really cool if they returned to that concept of signature/secret techniques - have the TMs gym leaders give out contain moves that no Pokemon (or very few) learn on their own and be explicit that some/all of these moves are created by them. It'd be a thematic callback to HMs in a way as well as the earlier games since it's "a move you can't use until this particular gym leader is defeated".
 
i think so many of my opinions on discussions this sub-forum had recently (level scaling, HMs/field moves, TMs etc) warp back to me wishing the badges were as relevant mechanically as they are in lore. like, they Should be doing something beyond being glorified checkpoints (which they do in the pre-alola games by unlocking field moves!)

alola found a way to make trials and grand trials feel important and you just get z-crystals you don't always use, so gym badges can definitely feel that way too, and even better since you can avoid the literal checkpoints alola had.
I can agree with this.

One of my now-25-year-old playthroughs of RBY stuck with me for the fact that I actually got stopped cold by the Thunder Badge guard on Victory Road because I just... forgot to fight Lt Surge. And since Kanto is laid out in such a way that you don't really need to use Fly to backtrack on the intended quest route, being locked out of Fly because I lacked the badge was something that just never came up.
 

QuentinQuonce

formerly green_typhlosion
I can agree with this.

One of my now-25-year-old playthroughs of RBY stuck with me for the fact that I actually got stopped cold by the Thunder Badge guard on Victory Road because I just... forgot to fight Lt Surge. And since Kanto is laid out in such a way that you don't really need to use Fly to backtrack on the intended quest route, being locked out of Fly because I lacked the badge was something that just never came up.
Honestly this is one of the more charming aspects of the older games to me: the way you could just miss things like this and not have them come up until they absolutely needed to.

Like, in RSE, it's perfectly possible to skip Brawly and not challenge him until after you've beaten Flannery: there's definitely been at least one occasion replaying RSE on which I've done just that, forgotten to challenge him, and returned to Petalburg only for Norman to refuse to battle me because I've only got three badges. I disliked how ORAS made it utterly impossible to skip either Brawly or Winona: even if you did somehow forget, there'd be an NPC who'd say "hold up, you can't go any further! Why don't you go and challenge the nearby gym?" Mind your own fucking business, that's why not.

It's one of the smaller things I appreciate about FRLG: that they didn't add any checkpoints or broken bridges to force you to do the gyms in a specific order. While HGSS made a bunch of small tweaks to the story that ensured you played "correctly", like forcing you to complete Sprout Tower and requiring you to collect HM07 in Ice Path to progress, these are largely not so in-your-face that they spoiled the experience for me. But ORAS went way too far on the railroading front - the Brawly tweak is at least forgiveable because it's somewhat-interestingly done and story-required, but the Winona tweak is just downright obnoxious.
 
Typhlosion not getting Earth Power. It's a volcano Pokemon, what gives? And it already gets Earthquake.

...if frickin' Sunflora can get it...
you see, gamefreak is just worried (*gives draining kiss to spectrier/calyrex-s*) that good (*gives regieleki access to boltbeam coverage via tera*) coverage (*makes ground/rock nearly unresisted and easily accessible by most ground AND rock types since gen 1*) could break (*creates marshadow, flutter mane and gouging fire*) typhlosion. they just totally care about balance i swearpromisevow.
 

Castersvarog

formerly Maronmario
Typhlosion not getting Earth Power. It's a volcano Pokemon, what gives? And it already gets Earthquake.

...if frickin' Sunflora can get it...
Speaking of earth power, why in gods name isn’t it the grass type equivalent to ice beam on water types?

Like I can get not giving it to all grass types just to not make things so homogeneous in the type, but like surely more then 12 grass types, 3 of which are part ground or rock btw, should be able to learn the move. Would be great for Mons like sceptile, Lilligant or like 90% of mono grass types so they can have actual coverage.
 
Typhlosion not getting Earth Power. It's a volcano Pokemon, what gives? And it already gets Earthquake.

...if frickin' Sunflora can get it...
To go a step further - why don't the volcano Pokemon (which I'd qualify as the Magmar line, Moltres, the Cyndaquil line, the Slugma line, Entei, the Numel line, Groudon, and Heatran) learn Discharge? Volcanic lightning is a real phenomenon, and I don't think any of these Pokemon would be particularly broken (or in Groudon and Heatran's case, any more broken) with Electric coverage - the Cyndaquil line even has precedent in that it learns Thunder Punch. It'd be a fun way to give these 'mons more coverage options in a flavorful way.
 
To go a step further - why don't the volcano Pokemon (which I'd qualify as the Magmar line, Moltres, the Cyndaquil line, the Slugma line, Entei, the Numel line, Groudon, and Heatran) learn Discharge? Volcanic lightning is a real phenomenon, and I don't think any of these Pokemon would be particularly broken (or in Groudon and Heatran's case, any more broken) with Electric coverage - the Cyndaquil line even has precedent in that it learns Thunder Punch. It'd be a fun way to give these 'mons more coverage options in a flavorful way.
Given the flavor, I think Thunder specifically would be better thematically. Ignore the wording in the article; any release of electrical charge is a "discharge."
 
Given the flavor, I think Thunder specifically would be better thematically. Ignore the wording in the article; any release of electrical charge is a "discharge."
This is what I get for skimming the article! My gut feeling is that Thunder clashes in a way, given how strongly associated it is with rain and rainstorms specifically in Pokemon, but there's no reason that association can't be changed or challenged.

What made me think of Discharge specifically isn't just the name, but also the way the electricity spreads out from the user instead of being 'cast' onto the target - reminded me visually of an eruption. But you're right: in terms of accurately reflecting the irl phenomenon of volcanic lightning, Thunder's more accurate.

Another thing I forgot: Magmortar doesn't learn Discharge, but it does already get Thunder Punch and Thunderbolt. Thunder Punch makes sense given the Electabuzz association, but Electivire doesn't get Flamethrower, so any Electric moves on it are already justified more by the cannon.
 
Another thing I forgot: Magmortar doesn't learn Discharge, but it does already get Thunder Punch and Thunderbolt. Thunder Punch makes sense given the Electabuzz association, but Electivire doesn't get Flamethrower, so any Electric moves on it are already justified more by the cannon.
I hate to be "that guy," but Electivire does get Flamethrower. It's been able to learn it since Gen 4, actually!

Magmar and Electabuzz can't learn Thunderbolt/Flamethrower respectively, but they can learn Thunder Punch/Fire Punch.
 
I hate to be "that guy," but Electivire does get Flamethrower. It's been able to learn it since Gen 4, actually!

Magmar and Electabuzz can't learn Thunderbolt/Flamethrower respectively, but they can learn Thunder Punch/Fire Punch.
Damn, I literally checked Electivire's Bulbapedia page just to be absolutely sure that I wasn't forgetting anything. And I still missed it!

In my defense, I don't think you ever want to click Flamethrower on Electivire anyways outside of in-game, but still, my bad
 
The natural learners for Body Press, those being Probopass, Regigigas, and Raging Bolt.

Gigas I sort of get since it's just a big beefy body type of mon (though it also reminds me Slow Start kneecaps THIS too), but Probopass is a bit odd to me in terms of flavor considering that, while heavy among rock types, its magnetic floating makes it seem hard for it to direct that weight the same way as generally large mons would do. Raging Bolt similarly seems odd to me given its basis in the Brontosaurus, which seems poorly suited to body slams vs something like Stomps or such.

It's weird because Body Press is such a broadly defined/described move that it's more weird for how few things have it than what has it, but even then the 3 natural learners feel like slightly odd choices.
 
Burn up! It is fully usable in SV, complete animation and everything. Of the 7 families that can learn it, 6 of them are in SV. Even has an electric variant (Physical, 10 BP less) of it that Pawmot has.

Despite this absolutely no Pokemon can learn Burn Up in SV. Even if they were inexplicably worried about the tera interaction (if you use it [or double shock] while terastalzied, as Fire [/Electric] you can keep using it) just seems like something they could limit to the especially mediocre Pokemon or Ho-Oh (since its legendary so it gets extra privileges).

e: I don't think even Smeargle can sketch it, since if you try to sketch metronome I think it either fails or just sketches metronome proper.
 
Burn up! It is fully usable in SV, complete animation and everything. Of the 7 families that can learn it, 6 of them are in SV. Even has an electric variant (Physical, 10 BP less) of it that Pawmot has.

Despite this absolutely no Pokemon can learn Burn Up in SV. Even if they were inexplicably worried about the tera interaction (if you use it [or double shock] while terastalzied, as Fire [/Electric] you can keep using it) just seems like something they could limit to the especially mediocre Pokemon or Ho-Oh (since its legendary so it gets extra privileges).

e: I don't think even Smeargle can sketch it, since if you try to sketch metronome I think it either fails or just sketches metronome proper.
It's because they some how managed to introduce a bug that causes the game to crash if you check the details screen of a typeless Pokémon, and that could potentially be any of them but Ho-oh, Moltres, and Hisuian Typhlosion.
 
It's because they some how managed to introduce a bug that causes the game to crash if you check the details screen of a typeless Pokémon, and that could potentially be any of them but Ho-oh, Moltres, and Hisuian Typhlosion.
The best kind of bug "fixes."

Like how Spinda can't be transferred to or from BDSP because they mistakenly inverted the way its spot patterns are determined in that game.
 
It's because they some how managed to introduce a bug that causes the game to crash if you check the details screen of a typeless Pokémon, and that could potentially be any of them but Ho-oh, Moltres, and Hisuian Typhlosion.
The best kind of bug "fixes."

Like how Spinda can't be transferred to or from BDSP because they mistakenly inverted the way its spot patterns are determined in that game.
Now I wonder if the Double Shock Tera interaction wasn't planned from the start and was only thrown in to bypass that bug.
 

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