-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Overwatch - Brigitte used FLAIL!
- Thread starter Harsha
- Start date
hopefully this one doesn't break like literally every other one i post
does anyone have the link to the discord?
Tera Melos
Banned deucer.
The D.va changes are absolutely horrific...I've been a top NA D.va since season 3 and (like many other D.va mains / pros ) agreed she was in the best possible spot right now specifically because of how good defense matrix is....now...well...she's Soldier but with more AoE and a Damage deny instead of a self heal.
Blizzard needs to stop listening to cry babies on Reddit and Overwatch Youtubers and look at ACTUAL game data and PTR feedback...I wish they let people play all these things on the PTR as they had them ready...not on the PTR as a way to prepare for it going live.
Blizzard has proven with Diablo's PTR that they KNOW how to run a PTR...so why can't the Overwatch team do it.
EDIT: Let me elaborate on the D.va changes.
1 ) Right now, Defense Matrix is the ONLY thing that allows D.va to handle duelist like Reaper / Pharah / Roadhog.
2 ) Defense Matrix had about four usable seconds. Anything more or less is risky, the average 4 second hold is what captures most DM plays. No one flicks for ults, they predict the ult/push and deny it. Flick DM is held on for surprise Widow Snipes, Helix Rockets, Fire Strikes, even Junkrat mines now that he has two.
3 ) D.va is still aggressive for counter push / dive play, even counter dive. That's possible because of Defense Matrix, however the ability to fly and shoot increases her counter push ability. Shooting, Flying, DM, and firing Micro-Rockets will turn the games ONLY Damage deny into another generic damage dealer...
4 ) The cut to DM removes any sort of Positioning advantage with DM. It's not as good as it is for flick-n-click DM (hitting the DM and letting the delay catch the ult/fire/ect).
Overall, this nerf to D.va is only...ONLY because the game is beginning to go on a path that is PURE damage / combat focused. EVERY Hero has seen major buffs to their damage and essentially nerfs to their core / unique mechanics...Roadhogs hook, Ana's Nade, Sym's turrets/ult/everything (she's so good now), and now D.va's Defense Matrix.
Essentially, every hero is becoming a hybrid/secondary DPS...and that's a real fucking problem.
Blizzard needs to stop listening to cry babies on Reddit and Overwatch Youtubers and look at ACTUAL game data and PTR feedback...I wish they let people play all these things on the PTR as they had them ready...not on the PTR as a way to prepare for it going live.
Blizzard has proven with Diablo's PTR that they KNOW how to run a PTR...so why can't the Overwatch team do it.
EDIT: Let me elaborate on the D.va changes.
1 ) Right now, Defense Matrix is the ONLY thing that allows D.va to handle duelist like Reaper / Pharah / Roadhog.
2 ) Defense Matrix had about four usable seconds. Anything more or less is risky, the average 4 second hold is what captures most DM plays. No one flicks for ults, they predict the ult/push and deny it. Flick DM is held on for surprise Widow Snipes, Helix Rockets, Fire Strikes, even Junkrat mines now that he has two.
3 ) D.va is still aggressive for counter push / dive play, even counter dive. That's possible because of Defense Matrix, however the ability to fly and shoot increases her counter push ability. Shooting, Flying, DM, and firing Micro-Rockets will turn the games ONLY Damage deny into another generic damage dealer...
4 ) The cut to DM removes any sort of Positioning advantage with DM. It's not as good as it is for flick-n-click DM (hitting the DM and letting the delay catch the ult/fire/ect).
Overall, this nerf to D.va is only...ONLY because the game is beginning to go on a path that is PURE damage / combat focused. EVERY Hero has seen major buffs to their damage and essentially nerfs to their core / unique mechanics...Roadhogs hook, Ana's Nade, Sym's turrets/ult/everything (she's so good now), and now D.va's Defense Matrix.
Essentially, every hero is becoming a hybrid/secondary DPS...and that's a real fucking problem.
Last edited:
I'm not really seeing your argument on the universal damage buffs. D.Va's change is definitely... a change, but for generally characters aren't buffed with their direct damage in mind, moreso their playability or nerfed when they have too much of an impact. Roadhog was innocent of both of these and was heartlessly slain.
- Symmetra gets a use on more than first point (fuck the long range beam tho)
- Ana's nade is nerfed cuz triple tank was unfun and boring (nothing died unless hooked)
- Save hog
And in the D.Va nerf/buff, I feel it's moreso blizzard trying (note trying) to make D.Va less of just the defense matrix. I can't really judge until I see it in action, but it's hard to deny that the matrix is one of, if not the, defining element of the meta rn (thanks South Korea).
When is Torb getting the rework treatment tho
- Symmetra gets a use on more than first point (fuck the long range beam tho)
- Ana's nade is nerfed cuz triple tank was unfun and boring (nothing died unless hooked)
- Save hog
And in the D.Va nerf/buff, I feel it's moreso blizzard trying (note trying) to make D.Va less of just the defense matrix. I can't really judge until I see it in action, but it's hard to deny that the matrix is one of, if not the, defining element of the meta rn (thanks South Korea).
When is Torb getting the rework treatment tho
Tera Melos
Banned deucer.
I'll name some historical damage buffs, via directly or through general buff.
Bastion - Change to sentry mode made him very powerful for a few weeks being released right at the start of a season. People were unsure how to work around his insane damage.
Ana - Biotic Rifle increased fire speed 20% Clip size 8<10, Biotic Nade radius increased from 3<4
Pharah - Explosive damage increased 13%
Zen - Projectile Speed increased from 30 < 120, spread removed.
The list goes on, and here's a nice spreadsheet of some of it
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1qzf3lsOL-m19-oduUI3SnoiPUmsdnzDLJRd0UM7g_bc/edit#gid=0
The point is, Buffing Damage while removing a key mechanic seems to be their go to compensation for a "nerf". History shows it, sadly.
Wasn't the bastion rework an overall damage nerf (via headshot removal and spread increase)? I thought it was the damage resistance that made him a problem. And all of these examples are just damage buffs without the removal of anything. So far those two in tandem have happened to D.Va and... Lucio? Maybe Ana despite her actual damage being nerfed and heroically ending triple tank?
In any case, I typically prefer buffing the niche/outclassed picks to nerfing the top, as blizzard has mostly been doing lately (buffing Mccree, Reaper, Orisa, and Reinhardt instead of needing Tracer or Winston). Lately damage really hasn't been going up any amount, at least directly, it's just that the decline of Ana and big heals is naturally leading towards a meta with less sustain.
Tera Melos
Banned deucer.
Like I said, directly or trough a general buff. The general buff was bastion having incredible sustain, being able to wipe teams on the Capture stages of Eichenwald and Hollywood. While I personally think TorbRissa works better for the "sit in a corner and have someone spam the choke" method, Bastion absolutely shut down the start of season 4. My point stands, increased damage of always going to be a sacrifice / issue with every Overwatch patch IMO (regarding hero changes).
As for your second point, I absolutely agree.
For the record, Zen's projectile speed increase were for his status orbs. The only 'damage buff' he got was the Orb Volley changes, and I guess increasing his orbs base damage makes it better against shields and shooting at non-discorded targets.
Anyhow, I doubt the general base agrees but w/e, nerf Tracer, even if it only matters for the pros lol.
Tera Melos
Banned deucer.
I WANT IT TO BE KNOWN THAT I SAID THE OTHER DAY THAT EVERYONE IS GETTING A DPS BOOST RECENTLY.
This is ABSOLUTELY Rubbish...They're LITERALLY making every hero more DPS focused...for NO REASON other than "More fun to play".
Holy cow I'm getting sick of how they handle Nerfs/Buffs/Changes...
EDIT: I also want it to be on record, that my girlfriend and I were joking JUST last night.
"They're reworking Mercy like they did Dva"
"Oh no"
"What if they give her like, a better gun and make Res and ability and make her Ult Soldiers aimbot"
"It'd be perfect and no one would question it"
- The next morning
"Oh no...what've we done."
Tera Melos
Banned deucer.
I'm glad that they fixed the idea of someone autolocking Mercy just to counter team kills. It was game breaking and frustrating to see Mercy hide behind a wall and 5 man Rez for literally nothing. However, I don't think the solution was giving her a single rez with a cool down. I feel like Blizzard is in an awkward stat of "More DPS, and a cool down!" instead of actually looking at issues and addressing them for what they are. Why change Mercy to begin with? Why not just limit her Res down to 2 people but cut the Charge time in half? Why not give her Solo Res as an ability and Team Res as an ult. You know? Now she has a new Ult which is just a DPS/Tempo buff...just like the D.va "buff"..."More Damage...more Tempo!"
Holy crap, new Junkrat on free-for-all is so much fun. Although you can destroy your own steel traps, which I'm 99% sure is a bug.
Tera Melos
Banned deucer.
Deathmatch is so awful.
I don't do anything wrong when playing it, and I've done really well in all the live matches I've played thus far (It was fun on the PTR as well, more fun tbh)
I can't stand the attitude of people in Deathmatch. I'm generally tired of the entire fucking attitude of people in Arcade. The game is becoming more and more toxic.
Also
Jeff's big post calling out a troll confirmed it takes 2,000+ reports, months worth of chat mutes, and so much more until someone is ACTUALLY banned...
Jeff is getting praised for accidentally confirming that the report system means nothing...the dude got banned for reaching over 2,000+ in game reports and making a public post on the Blizz forums about how he was upset about a chat ban.
holy shit Jeff
I don't do anything wrong when playing it, and I've done really well in all the live matches I've played thus far (It was fun on the PTR as well, more fun tbh)
I can't stand the attitude of people in Deathmatch. I'm generally tired of the entire fucking attitude of people in Arcade. The game is becoming more and more toxic.
Also
Jeff's big post calling out a troll confirmed it takes 2,000+ reports, months worth of chat mutes, and so much more until someone is ACTUALLY banned...
Jeff is getting praised for accidentally confirming that the report system means nothing...the dude got banned for reaching over 2,000+ in game reports and making a public post on the Blizz forums about how he was upset about a chat ban.
holy shit Jeff
the only ones who praised him are the retards. most people actually were like "wait wtf? 2.2k reports to get a ban? wtffff" until he went back and said they're working on the report system
this is what, 4th time? 5th time? that he came out and said toxicity is a problem and they'll fix reporting, but nothing comes of it lol
its the story of the boy who cried wolf.
this is what, 4th time? 5th time? that he came out and said toxicity is a problem and they'll fix reporting, but nothing comes of it lol
its the story of the boy who cried wolf.
As a torb main deathmatch is ass. But then again I'm a torb main so life in general is ass.
I stopped one-tricking tho so that's an improvement.
On the topic of deathmatch, I think it would be a better idea if the game was locked to the chateau (like ecopoint back then) and they add more maps as they go. Otherwise we have one great map and a bunch of poorly suited old maps.
E: I don't know why you're playing arcade with mic on, only time I fire that up is for comp (if I feel strong enough to weather the storm of angry teammates)
I stopped one-tricking tho so that's an improvement.
On the topic of deathmatch, I think it would be a better idea if the game was locked to the chateau (like ecopoint back then) and they add more maps as they go. Otherwise we have one great map and a bunch of poorly suited old maps.
E: I don't know why you're playing arcade with mic on, only time I fire that up is for comp (if I feel strong enough to weather the storm of angry teammates)
no YOU'RE an ass
It's a religious choice
you were not a top D.Va by any means, lol
what the fuck does any of this even mean
i enjoyed reading your posts at first but i can't allow this delusion to go on... top x% on overbuff/masteroverwatch means next to nothing and i hope you realize that. and i'm speaking from the perspective of a top 1% tracer/genji... as someone who plays against professionals and coaches them on a regular basis, this number is absolutely meaningless.
if you don't think defense matrix was too strong then you are absolutely mental. the fact that you list DM as a counter to Reaper/Pharah/Roadhog over Soldier/Pharah/Tracer/McCree further showcases this. Tracer is in fact the biggest responsibility of any high ELO D.Va...
ALSO, if you would like further clarification, i will link you to every top western D.Va main agreeing that the DM nerf was indeed necessary via twitter.
Last edited: