Resource NU Info & Tiering

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Hello everyone! Welcome to the NU tier, the second lowest tier in standard play. Like any subforum, the NU forum has rules, and if you don't follow these rules at least to an extent, you will receive an infraction.

To start off, pretty much any rule that applies in the other subforums and on Smogon in general should apply here, however there are some specific rules that i'd either like to highlight or are exclusive to this tier.

You can find a list of all NU Pokemon here.

You can also join in on our social NU Discord channel HERE.


In this thread you can also find all the past council votes from the entire generation and tiering updates with regards to the council members and suspects.
The NU Council:

Kiyo (Co-Leader)
rozes (Co-Leader)
Advantage
Blast
Evan.
Hootie
Shadowtags
Shaneghoul

The Tiering System

NU will use a system nearly identical to the OU tiering system, Smogon's official tiering policy can be found here.

1) Please ask an NU moderator before making a discussion thread:

I'd really like all of you to get approval from an NU moderator before creating a discussion thread. New ideas are nice, but it's usually a good idea to check in with a forum moderator before impulsively posting something that's of low quality, too similar to another project, or anything of the like. NU forum Moderators should be happy to help out with new discussions, and even if an idea isn't initially approved they might be able to help out with your thread to make it a bit more presentable before you post, which is good for you, us, and the people who will post in the thread in the future.

Currently the moderators of the NU forum are:

Kiyo
erisia
Disjunction
rozes


2) Do not make discussion threads about specific Pokemon:

One of the first types of threads that usually pops up in these new forums are threads about specific Pokemon. I dislike these kind of threads, they die fast and really clutter up the forum. If you want to discuss a specific pokemon in detail, try the Pokemon Showdown room or in the np thread.

You can find people chatting in the neverused room almost all hours of the day! If you have questions or want to get involved in the community, talking in real time is by far the best way to get involved. We have a lot of very friendly staff that are willing to show you the ropes as well! You can visit us on PS by clicking
here.

Our current list of PS NU Room Room Owners are:

ADVANTAGE
Disjunction
Quite Quiet
ryan
Sir Kay

Our current list of PS NU Room Moderators are:

AJB
Blast
boltsandbombers
erisia
Eternally
Evan.
Hootie
Kiyo
Mistrals
Montsegur
Punchshroom
quziel
rozes
Shadowtags
Shaneghoul
Stoned M&M
TTFTW

We have many ways to learn and get involved in NU, here is a list of projects that are currently being ran!

Learn!

Now Playing

The discussion thread for the current metagame. Discuss the new sets, tier shifts, and the best mons in the tier in this thread.

Ask a Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer
Have a question that can be answered in one post? Ask it here and our regulars will handle the rest for you!

Viability Rankings
Join in the discussion where we rank the Pokemon in NU depending on how useful/effective they are in the current metagame. The list is dutifully maintained by myself.

Speed Tiers
A useful resource that is maintained by the NU mods that lists the specific speed stat of every relevant Pokemon in NU, including boosts, natures, and items!

Team Building Compendium
The trusty Compendium, run by boltsandbombers, which lists all the most important things to include in an NU team and what Pokemon can do them! Also includes information for specific teams, such as weather abusers and clerics.

Good Cores in NU
A project run by Watchog that aims to collect effective cores of 2-3 Pokemon to help players fill the gaps they need to on their team!

Creative/Underrated Movesets
rozes hosts this thread that serves a public forum where you can post under-appreciated sets or Pokemon. Be sure to read the rules!

Participate!

Victim of the Week

Check out Victim of the Week, where Shadestep suggests a big threat in today's metagame and you, the community, logs all the checks and counters for that threat!

Break This Team
~Eternally provides a challenge to the community to manufacture a core of two Pokemon that tear apart the featured team of the week.

Core Analysis Workshop
An engaging project run by NV where he posts a core and the community breaks it down defensively and suggests viable partners for it!

Archetype Cores
In this project, erisia suggests a type core and the community submits their own cores based on the types for that week. The best core is decided on at the end of the week by community voting!

Pokemon Matchmaking
In this project, NV picks a Pokemon each week and players submit great partners that help that Pokemon get its job done.

Lure That Threat
Earth provides a threat in the current metagame each week with the challenge for the community to come up with the most creative ways to lure it.

Teams!

The Teambuilding Lab

The Lab where you can request a specific set/core for the Lab members to build a team around for you! Our experienced lab members pump out teams and archive them in the OP if you want to borrow some to get start in NU as well!

NU Bazaar
Exchange teams and rates with other users in a miniature RMT-style thread! Whether you want to show off or get some quick help, this is a thread for all users!

Teambuilding Frameworks
lolbro and Rapture. cohost this thread that provides the frameworks for some of the most common team archetypes in NU right now.

Challenges and Tournaments!

The Never Used League

A regularly scheduled tournament hosted in our NU sub-forum. Players who place well earn points on a leader board and players who place well consistently may make it into a playoffs tournament at the end of each season to determine who the best of the best in our community are! Hosted by yours truly.

Dark Horse
Players choose under-appreciated Pokemon and restrict their teams to a certain usage stat in this unique challenge run by ryan.

PS NU Room Tournaments
Regularly scheduled live tours in our Pokemon Showdown! Never Used room. These are fun community events that everyone can get into, so don't be afraid to join in! Winners are also tracked in this thread.

For a list of all previous tournaments and winners, see this post.

Future Projects:
  • none!
Future Tournaments:
  • none
Projects on Hiatus:
  • Battle of the Week
Projects We Will Not Run:
  • Set Viability Rankings
  • Next Best Thing
If you're still looking for a way to contribute, you can sign up to write some analyses for the strategy Pokedex in our C&C subforum! Check it out here! If you're unsure on how to get involved, you can ask one of our C&C mods on where you can start out!

Our Current NU C&C Moderators are:

[Leader]Hootie
erisia
Blast

List of Associated Social Media Accounts

Kiyo's Youtube


If you want your Social Media account to be featured here, just make sure it is primarily focusing on NU, ask me, and I'll add it!
 
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Sigilyph | BL3 | 11 Ban, 4 Do Not Ban

Sigilyph undoubtedly has a huge effect on the metagame, and is an amazing Pokemon in NU, but I believe that not enough ways to respond to it have been explored so far, so I am voting Do Not Ban not because I believe it isn't potentially broken, but because I think it needs a bit more time.
you can't rely on wearing sigilyph down through traditional defensive means (hazards + phazing, lo recoil, status), so your only option of beating it is hitting it hard. cm + flame orb sets take great advantage of this because sigilyph is fast enough to set up / burn while being reasonably bulky. cm + 3 attacks does something any offensive cm user would die for: lo boosted attacks without lo recoil. it's very easy to set up with sigilyph because it doesn't have to worry about any residual damage, and it becomes dangerous very quickly. it's also fast enough to make it difficult to revenge kill for any teamstyle that is not offensive. basically sigilyph is very challenging to deal with and teambuild for (without resorting to the same crutches like spiritomb over and over again) because it limits your counterplay options as a result of magic guard, its diversity, great speed, and powerful attacks with a load of coverage options, so it should be banned because of that.
i am not fully convinced it is broken. it is a significant, centralizing threat in XY NU currently, but already after some discussion i can see advanced players adapting and changing their strategies to handle sigilyph, even on the ladder (the higher end, mind you, but nevertheless). i don't think "versatility" alone is a strong enough reason to push for ban, and in fact the primary reason i would consider voting ban is how it warps the metagame (similarly to jynx, last gen). like treecko said, we simply haven't had enough time to really consider what kind of effect it has on the meta.

as an example, bulky offense seems to be put under the most pressure by sigilyph, but it hasn't had much of a length of time to adapt - already, i've started to see more spiritomb, probopass, different pursuit trappers, etc on bulky offense which really mitigates sigi's effectiveness.
Without a doubt the most threatening Pokémon in the metagame, Sigilyph possesses unique qualities that push him over the top in NU. As probably everyone has mentioned, it has a way around all its checks and counters - Spiritomb is forced into a 50-50 when it switches into Dazzling Gleam, defensive Pokémon are all setup bait for Sigi unless they have phazing and Sigi doesn't even mind that too much because it doesn't get worn down by hazards. Which means that against defensive teams, Sigilyph can freely come in literally infinite times (given infinite number of turns) if there isn't a threat of paralysis/sleep (which is easily taken care of by Flame Orb - what did we say about Sigi having a way around everything?). As a result, Sigilyph's presence limits the viability of stall, semistall and to an extent balance playstyles, which is unhealthy for the metagame and as a result, Sigilyph should be banned. (srsly it limits teambuilding even more than Jynx did)
I vote to Ban Sigilyph. It is one the most versatile and unpredictable pokemon in the tier. It has excellent movepool which can hit each and every pokemon super effectively. Its counters are based on its sets and the fact that it has many viable sets, it ensures that there are no true counters. Spiritomb stands out as the only true check to any set lacking Dazzling Gleam. The metagame being more inclined towards balanced teams, it stands out as a great threat, it threatens lots of defensive pokemon's with its massive coverage usually OHKO'ing/2HKO'ing them. On top of that, having access to magic guard as an ability makes it impossible to take down by means of passive damage, it means it has lot easier time to set up. Hence this combined with the fact that it has massive coverage, set-up move and access to recovery makes him too much for the NU metagame.
I feel that Sigilyph does not deserve a ban. While it is an extremely strong pokemon in the NU metagame that has very downsides and can perform a variety of tasks in a Stallbreaker, Setup Sweeper, and Wallbreaker, unlike BW Jynx [Which people are apparantly comparing it to], does not groundbreakingly affect teambuilding. I do not feel that I need to pack more than one counter to it, and there are a plethora of Offensive and Defensive pokemon which are able to shut it down, inclusive of Spiritomb, Liepard, Kangaskhan, Probopass, etc. Just to name a few. Sigilyph is without a doubt the best pokemon in the tier and is relatively difficult to handle when offered the right support, but it does not at all limit teambuilding and has its fair amount of flaws, and therefore I feel that it should not be banned.
There's no need to cover what it does—we all know that. Voting dnb not because I think it's not broken but because I'm not fully convinced that it is. Its effects on the metagame are what have had me leaning towards banning it for so long, but it's hard to see those effects with the metagame being around for such a short time. For now, I'd prefer to give it a little more time in the meta and revote later if it remains a problem. If it does get banned, I think it would be good to revisit it down the line.
Sigilyph has no true counters, as scorpdestroyer said. The best "counter" to Sigilyph is Spiritomb, which is annihilated by a Dazzling Gleam. Its ability also contributes to its brokenness, Magic Guard. Because of this ability, Sigilyph has no problem beating Stall and Defensive teams, since its immune to Stealth Rocks, Poison, and Burn. Take this ability in conjunction with Roost, and it is quite easy to keep Sigilyph healthy throughout the match while still offensively switching in to threaten the opposing team. The best way of dealing with Sigilyph is by revenging it, but even so, if it is running theGODLY Cosmic Power set, it becomes difficult to revenge kill once it gets a couple of boosts under its belt. In conclusion, Sigilyph's ability and versatility in its set makes it too much for the NU metagame.
I vote to Ban Sigilyph. As of right now the only single counter that i can find to every single set of sigi is Lickilicky, and even then if someone is running scarf/specs with trick and you get tricked you can't beat that version (but i seem to be the only one who runs scarf). I originally was going to vote to keep it because I wasnt having very much trouble with it, due to the fact that I was running a licky on my team. Then when i was helping someone try to find some checks/counters for sigi, I realized that there are very few counters/checks that can beat Sigi 1v1. The problem then becomes if you have one to stop offensive sigi you also need one to stop CP sigi, and while CP isnt as common higher ladder, if you arent prepared for it you will get swept by it. So when team building you pretty much have to have on your team a Licky/Probo/spiritomb and a trick/frost breath pokemon (that is scarfed or cryo) to be able to appropriatly deal with sigilyph. The fact that this limits team building so much to where you have to carry at least two pokemon to beat on every team you make and that the amount of pokes to choose from to counter sigi is limited to under 5, is more than enough of a reason for me to vote to ban it.
Pretty much comes down to how it interferes with team building too much. You can run a Pokemon that can counter the Cosmic Power set, but then something else has to stop a potential All Out Offensive and/or Calm Mind set.
ie: Spiritomb can handle the Stored Power set easily but then an offensive set with Dazzling Gleam is a guaranteed 2HKO.
Sigilyph is very versatile and has many potent sets such as All-Out Attacker, Calm Mind, Flame Orb, and even Specs Tinted Lens, meaning reliable responses are few and far betwen while surefire counters do not exist. Being able to choose between Psyshock and Psychic already limits the pool of reliable counters, but Sigilyph has an utterly insane array of coverage options such as Heat Wave, Energy Ball, Dazzling Gleam, Air Slash, Ice Beam, etc...which threatens a lot of Pokemon, particularly those slower than Sigilyph (which is a good majority of the tier). However, the real problem behind Sigilyph's dominance is how risk-free it is: Magic Guard allows it to perform all of its sets with ridiculous efficiency, stops it from being worn down by residual damage, and most importantly can easily outlast most, if not all of its possible counters. Sigilyph has such an advantage over other Pokemon in NU that its presence can be considered unhealthy, and it should be elevated to a higher playing field in order to even the tides.
Reasoning: Having played against and used Sigilyph myself, I feel like it puts too much of a strain on pretty much any form of bulky team archetype there is. Against hyperoffensive teams with like 4 things that outspeed it, it won't be too much of a problem, but against teams that can't afford to go that fast, all you have to do is get rid of one or two of your opponent's mons that can survive a CM-boosted attack and actually do something in return, and voila, you can set up and sweep at any moment in the game. Its versatility doesn't help its case either: Some might switch their Spiritomb in on Sigilyph, only to get struck by a Dazzling Gleam. Some might assume Shiftry can check it, only to get burned by the CM Psycho Shift set.

In short: Sigilyph gives bulky teams an unfair disadvantage and it can come in and sweep teams midgame, add to that a plethora of viable sets and you've got yourself a broken mon. Ban please.
The moment Sigilyph comes in on something slower, it puts a lot of pressure on the opponent because it hits almost the whole tier for super effective damage. There aren't many 100% counters because Sigi can hurt most of them with at least one of its sets. Also it can switch out of revenge killing attempts easily thanks to Magic Guard and come back later. In order to beat Sigilyph you either have to predict very well or carry multiple Pokemon that are bulky enough to take most of Sigilyph's moves. This is a lot easier on the Sigilyph user because it can come in as many times as it wants so a mispredict isn't always the end.
Sigilyph is an amazing Pokemon in NU, and the fact that you need atleast two answers to it just shows how terrifying it is. Even conventional 'checks' in Dark-types, Spiritomb being the most popular, can lose to one of so many coverage moves Sigilyph has access to (Dazzling Gleam). Sigilyph is also really versatile; it has multiple viable sets (CM Roost, Flame Orb CM MonoAttacker, Roost or Sub 3 Attack, 4 Attack, Scarf), and does all of them really well thanks to its over average base Speed (97), its movepool, and its ability Magic Guard, which allows Sigilyph to not be affected by status, Life Orb recoil, and Stealth Rock. Sigilyph's main selling point is how easily and often it can set up, making it one of the best wallbreaker in the tier, and to be honest Sigilyph does it way too well, as it can easily beat any Pokemon in the tier if you need it to. I also don't think it's letting the metagame develop in a healthy manner.

With everything that I stated above in mind, I am voting Ban.
Ban I guess, no need to rehash the arguments presented already. I'm not 100% convinced it's straight up broken but I don't believe it's letting the metagame develop in a healthy manner. It's straddling the line between "best Pokemon in the tier" and "solidly broken", and right now I think it would make a better metagame to ban it and revisit it later, hoping NU grabs some drops around the time it goes official.
 
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Combusken | BL3 | 13 Ban, 1 Do Not Ban. 1 John

I am voting ban on Combusken simply because it turns such a large percentage of the tier into setup fodder, it's frankly ridiculous. I was completely against banning it at first, but unless I run Haze Dragalge / Dragon Tail Rhydon on every team, I lose to a decently played Combusken. A resistance to Knock Off and lack of Stealth Rock weakness just makes it so easy to come in again and again and just keep passing boosts, and they're the type of boosts everything outside of suicide trick room Pokemon like (speed and defense). I know this is short, but I believe that the ability to pass boosts so effortlessly and with almost 0 risk is broken in the NU metagame.


Combusken has fantastic typing and above average bulk with Eviolite that lets it set up Bulk Ups and Swords Dances on a lot of Pokemon in the metagame including some of the biggest threats like Spiritomb and almost any Pokemon choice locked into a non STAB move while passively gathering free Speed boosts thanks to its awesome ability. The fact that it can easily invest in Bulk fully thanks to its ability lets Combusken abuse Eviolite to its fullest extent meaning that it can get boosts even against some Pokemon that hit it for Super Effective damage like Seismitoad and Lanturn.
To make all of this worse NU has the perfect Baton Pass receivers in Xatu who avoids Roar/Whirlwind and can set up further with Calm Mind and use Stored Power meaning that you pretty much need haze and/or Dragon Tail on your team and Feraligatr and Kangaskhan who already have awesome bulk and become incredibly difficult to revenge kill, not to mention that Combusken can also clean up in a pinch if it has enough Bulk Ups. This strategy also worked in tw NUPL matches showing that it is a real concern and not a ladder gimmick in the slightest.

Combusken is grossly consistent at its job, especially when it can just subconsciously rack up Speed to pass while it either boosts its other stats or just smacks foes with its powerful STAB. Combusken's good bulk and typing makes it so that almost every time, there will be something on someone's team that Combusken can set up on, and that is usually more than enough opportunity for Combusken to offer its powerful support. Access to Baton Pass obviously means that simply stopping/walling Combusken itself won't be enough, and with its beneficial universal support countering it without a specific anti-move (phasing moves) is damn near impossible to do. Even then, Combusken has numerous ways to work around most counter moves via its teammates which it can pass to (or just Substitute against damaging phasing moves), making Haze the only true counter. However, Haze is inferior to other phasing moves the majority of the time and takes up a valuable moveslot, while also implying that if numerous Pokemon have to run this move to stop Combusken Pass or get bowled over otherwise, Combusken Pass itself could be too dominant a strategy (see: Baton Pass Clause in general, and how it made Haze see use when it was hardly touched prior to Baton Pass's dominance).

Combusken is not just consistent, it is also very versatile. Bulk Up Combusken sets up easily against bulkier targets and may not achieve too much against offensive teams, offensive Combusken (Swords Dance / special) can easily topple offensive teams at a moment's notice, and only sometimes falter against bulkier opponents. The ability to easily adapt to the meta and threaten almost, if not all team archetypes while still maintaining each set's overall effectiveness (passing Speed), grants Combusken the potential to overcentralise the meta, which no one wants to see. It is bulky enough to take hits from NU's weaker residents, and strong enough to hurt the tier's frailer offensive attackers while easily keeping up with them via Speed Boost, and in general is very low risk, high reward; Combusken has to go or the diversity of NU may soon suffer from its presence.

Combusken is an excellent exemple of a 'low risk high reward' Pokemon. While it is not broken by itself, the support that Combusken can provide to its teammates (such as Feraligatr, Kangaskhan, Xatu, Slurpuff, Cradily, and more) thanks to Speed Boost, Baton Pass, and its access to Bulk Up and Swords Dance is too much for NU in my opinion.
Combusken does have things that can answer it though, such as Haze, Dragon Tail, Roar, Taunt, Perish Song, and more, but the main issue is that it can adapt its set to these answers to not be stopped that easily: it can use Substitute on a predicted Dragon Tail, Baton Pass its boost to Suction Cups users or to Xatu to prevent Roar and Taunt, and nothing relevant can run Perish Song without leaving itself open to more things, leaving Haze as one of the only good answers to it, but unfortunartely there isn't a lot of good users either (mainly Dragalge, but Qwilfish and Garbodor can use it too, and Cryogonal just shouldn't be dealing with Combusken). Heck, Combusken can even run different EV spreads (Physically Defensive and Specially Defensive, or even Physically Offensive if you need it to be able to sweep by itself too) to be able to set up and beat any Pokemon you want.

Combusken has proved too much for the NU metagame largely due to 1. its ability to accumulate boosts easily and relatively safely multiple times per match due to its bulk and access to bulk up, 2. ability to pass to Pokemon that have massive utility without boosts but becomeincredible with boosts, 3. ability to utilise its multiple passing options to avoid would-be counters like dtail / circle throw / whirlwind / clear smog and 4. the option of running different sets to overcome certain checks. These factors make Combusken very difficult to deal with, limit its counters to a small handful and together have pushed Combusken over the line.

Chicken needs to go because it can set up a win far too easily. As long as your opponent carries a Pokemon that chicken sets up on (a lot of them) and doesn't specifically bring something with Haze / phazing move (not a lot of them) it's almost impossible to play around chicken. Also pretty much every teammate likes bulk and speed so it can actually alter 5 team members to cover up what it wants to, meaning chicken teams can adapt and change very quickly.

Combusken is overcentralizing the metagame because of it's 'low risk' value on a team. There are zero consequences of using Combusken and high rewards. Not only this, Combusken can utilize a range of Baton Pass recipients to adapt to a situation as the battle moves forward meaning it can pass into certain mons to counter particular phazing moves. Additionally, Combusken has the ability to adapt to the meta itself as people try to run certain mons to counter it which defines overcentralization.

I am going to vote to Not Ban. Yes, combusken is a very good Pokemon, but I don't believe it is broken. I've heard a lot of arguments for banning it, and I really haven't been convinced by any of them. Nor have my personal experiences found that combusken is overpowered.

One argument I've heard is that it doesn't take skill to use. I disagree, combusken in nothing like SwaqPlay and full on baton-pass teams. In fact, you could argue it takes more prediction to use than most pokemon. This is because most combusken checks are pokemon which can both damage combusken and Phaze the pokemon it may pass to, albeit with different moves. People have said that it comes down to a "50/50", however another word for that is prediction, which is one of the basis of skill. I've also heard that combusken can just pass in that situation each time with no harm to itself. That is also true, but the pokemon which comes in does take harm, especially if there are hazards up (getting hazards up is more difficult than it sounds, but that's not on combusken, that's on Xatu).

Another problem is that there is an actual team around combusken. If combusken goes down, that team is weaker than a normal team. Combusken is countered and checked easily if it doesn't have the right options around it to pass to. While it certainly bolsters almost any team, it only really has success with a certain few pokemon around it. And these teams have just as many weaknesses as other teams, because of their dependence on combusken.

There are other arguments for and against banning combusken, but at the end of the day, my experiences have found that teams which prepares for combusken like it would any other threat don't lose to combusken-pass more than it does to any other type of team. A better question might be how centralising combusken is. A suspect test will always increase the usage of a pokemon, but we don't have stats for after combusken's rise to prominence but before the test. However, between June and July, the only pokemon which had a significant rise in usage related to combusken is Samurott. Other counters/checks (Dragalage, Poliwrath, Qwilfish, etc) stayed more or less constant in terms of usage. While people certainly had to adjust their team for combusken, I don't believe that it involved using pokemon which had no other niche.

In conclusion, I feel like combusken is not ban-worthy. Although it is one of the best pokemon in the tier, it isn't any more centralising than any other top threat. Although there are very good teams based around it, those teams don't beat other prepared teams any more than other good teams do. And although it is a very good supporting pokemon, it doesn't consistently set up a situation in which it makes it substantially easier for other pokemon to sweep.

Combusken has quickly arisen as a top threat in the NU metagame after the bulk up set was discovered. It can get boosts incredibly easily against most of the meta and has ways to get around pretty much everything except stuff like haze dragalge, which is the only somewhat reliable stop. Combusken's ability to boost threats dangerous on their own into even bigger problems is simply too much for the tier to handle. The only reason chickenpass hasn't taken over the whole meta is that a lot of people find the playstyle thoughtless and boring. It's very simple to win with Combusken - just lure out something it can set up on and unless your opponent has dragalge, you pretty much win every time. This results in an unhealthy metagame where even subpar players can get wins against better players reliably, unless they run the aforementioned haze dragalge, or don't run things that Combusken can set up on, which results in overall worse teams that players are forced to use. Therefore my vote is: BAN

Combusken really has everything going for it as a support poke. It has very acceptable bulk that can allow it so set up at least 1 bulk up boost and multiple speed boosts. It does not have a stealth rock weakness to allow it to set up multiple times in a match. It can pass baton boosts into Xatu, which protects it from roar, and can sub or pass to slurpuff to bypass dragon tail. Really the only reliable way to stop combusken is to have a strong special attacker that can kill and outspeed combusken after a speed boost, or haze. First one is not realistic for all 6 members of your team, while haze makes sure your opponent doesn’t get an advantage rather than the user getting a benefit. Really no reliable way to prevent this support poke to give multiple speed boosts to pokes throughout a match, which wants me to ban combusken.

Where to begin...
The amount of support that Combusken provides to a team is ridiculous. It can come in multiple times throughout a match and set up at least one speed boost and baton pass out into a better match up, and that +1 speed can be incredibly beneficial. Combusken can also run a couple of different boosting sets with great success. It can run an Swords Dance set or a bulk up set and both come with there added benefits. With the Swords Dance set it is easy to bring Combusken in on various things set up one Swords Dance on the switch and baton pass out into something, and I have swept multiple times with only a +2, +1 with Kanga. Now if the recipient of the first pass dies Combusken is pretty much at full health and can come in again and repeat the process. With the Bulk Up set the same process can occur except this time Combusken can stay in and get a second Bulk Up with the boosted defenses. It can then pass +2,+2,+2 out into anything on its team. Some good recipients are Kangaskhan, Feraligatr, Xatu, KlingKlang, Slurpuff. Each of these mons has the ability to sweep on its own with the boosts. The main one that gets passed to is Xatu, Xatu has access to the move Stored Power. Once Combusken has passed into Xatu, Xatu can set up a Calm Mind and Stored Power then becomes a 180 base power move and at +1 with STAB very little is taking more than 1. Also Xatu has access to roost so it is able to heal off any damage it takes. As far as the rest of Combusken's team mates go each of them is there for a certain reason. The "counters" to Combusken are dragon tail/roar. Each member on the team is there to check that. Xatu can stop roar/whirlwind with Magic Bounce. Slurpuff can stop dragon tail users from phasing them out with its immunity to dragon. A common user of dragon tail is Dragalge and with its access to sludge bomb it can be difficult to switch in slurpuff, so KlingKlang provides an immunity to poison. And other mons like Kanga and Feraligatr are just there to take the boosts and sweep right away.

Now a big reason why Combusken is so good as a booster is that it can take a hit. It has some pretty mediocre defenses with 60/60/60 but with the addition of the item Eviolite its mediocre defenses get boosted up to pretty decent. It can then set up on a couple of things that normally it shouldnt be able to set up on, like Seismitoad. With a bulk up it can take lots of hits on the physical side and set up at least two of them before having to pass out. It can set up on multiple high tier threats in NU and various defensive pokemon. Being able to set up on so much and doing it throughout the match is just ridiculous.

The only real stop that prevents Combusken 100% of the time is Haze, and there are only a few pokemon that can actually use haze without taking it off for a better move. Other check can be checked by the Combusken team and as the meta has adapted for Combusken so have Combusken teams adapted to the adaptions. A good example of this is now Combusken is running sub over an attacking move as dragon tail will not break the sub especially after a bulk up.

I've been watching to see if there are any good arguments to keep Combusken in NU and they consisted of pretty much: Lets wait and let the meta adapt, its not broken if you can use it to, run haze on everything, keep offensive pressure up. The first one I do not agree with, the meta has been adapting for a while now and still hasnt come up with multiple good answers to combusken and if we wait longer it is going to be keeping something that is unfun in the tier. The second one is just from people who like using OP stuff and isnt really a good argument for keeping it. The third one is actually one of the better ones, but it comes back to not every team wants to run Haze, and having to run haze on everything is centralizing the meta and for more offensive teams you can lose momentum by having to switch to your haze user everytime. The fourth one is probably the best, because if you keep offensive pressure up it becomes a lot harder for Combusken to do its job. However as soon as you slip up Combusken is in and its over, meaning you have to play at 110% every game versus Combusken pass.


Combusken has been an unhealthy issue to the meta for quite a few months now. We have all had plenty of time to "adapt", and I find it quite obvious that things simply are not going to get better. The NU ladder on Showdown, the NUPL, nearly all tournaments involving XY NU, have all been dominated by the cancerous play style known as Combusken pass. People name pity stops to it like Haze Dragalge, yet Xatu, the best recipient for Combusken's stat boosts, has the ability Magic Bounce. A combination like that simply does not belong in NU. Combusken is a great mon outside of Baton Pass, able to just use Bulk Up, with Flare Blitz and Brick Break, or run a surprise special set with Focus Blast and Fire Blast. It goes to show how people are abusing the system by taking advantage of people expecting Baton Pass, and then turning it around and using an offensive set. That simply isn't healthy for NU, as it's nearly a 50/50 every match with Busken, and that simply isn't competitive. One should not have to run a crappy team designed just to stop Busken pass, and then get completely blown out after it turns out their opponent brought a standard team.

I am fully convinced that Combusken is unhealthy for the NU metagame. While I cannot say that it is "broken" by any means, it has an outrageous amount of utility. Unlike any other pokemon in the metagame, it has an entire playstyle built around it and only it, and unlike other baton passers, its extreme bulk, great typing, and ability to reliably pass multiple times to teammates makes it overly reliable and absurdly difficult to counter. While Combusken alone is by no means broken, it requires teams to run very specified checks to its playstyle such as Haze, which can be detrimental towards certain playstyles which cannot afford to lose momentum by running such a move. As a result, it centralizes the metagame, making every viable team run a way to somewhat force it not to pass / setup. Furthermore, common partners and its bulk means that it cannot be dealt with by normal bp checks such as Roar or Dragon Tail. Simply put, while Combusken itself isn't extremely powerful, it's ability to support teammates with an amount of utility that no other pokemon can offer pushes it over the edge in making it one of the best team supporters in the metagame, and its limitations on teambuilding is simply unhealthy for NU.

combusken's ability to pass boosts makes it unhealthy for the metagame. although there are semi-reliable ways to stop combusken from passing boosts, the fact that pretty much nothing can stop a boosted kangaskhan or xatu from sweeping once the boosts are passed make combusken broken. pretty much every other set up sweeper can be checked with the right pokemon if given a few free turns to set up, but this isn't the case with combusken. it forces you to keep your combusken counters healthy and forces you to switch to them every time. on top of that, many teams are not built to incorprate the few users of dragon tail, circle throw, or haze in the tier which means that they often are helpless against combusken.

as for combusken's traits itself i'm sure most of you are familiar with what it does. speed boost differentiates it from other baton passers as in a single turn it can boost it's attack, defense, and speed. this makes it extremely hard to stop as it makes combusken imprevious to priority and frail revenge killers. eviolite gives combusken excellent bulk and allows it to tank weak super effective hits such as scald from seismitoad. it's typing also lets it set up on or force out most grass, bug, or fire types with ease. these factors make it extremely easy for combusken to set up multiple boosts.
 
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Ares

Fool me...can't get fooled again
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Altarianite = 10 ban 0 do not ban - BANNED
Dragalge = 5 ban 5 do not ban - NOT BANNED
Lopunnite = 8 ban 1 do not ban 1 abstain - BANNED
Sceptilite = 7 ban 3 do not ban - BANNED
Slurpuff = 7 ban 3 do not ban - BANNED

Altarianite has been banned from NU. It moved up to UU with the tier shift, but if it (eventually) falls back down, it will be BL3.

Altarianite was the only suspect that was unanimously banned. Fairy/Dragon is one of the best defensive typings in the game, and Mega Altaria proves it with the bulk and typing to set up on virtually anything. Pixilate gave it a very strong STAB with no immunities, so on most Dragon Dance sets, Mega Altaria had the room to run moves such as Heal Bell and Roost since it often only needed one attack. Mega Altaria had the perfect storm of typing, moveset, bulk, and power, leaving the majority of the tier helpless to stop it after it nabbed a boost (and the remaining few couldn't handle much beyond that). On top of the ease that Mega Altaria's physical sets could cleanly sweep the NU metagame, Mega Altaria could easily go special with Draco Meteor, Hyper Voice, and Fire Blast, punching holes through teams that way.

Altarianite was essentially universally deemed broken by NU - I don't think there was any reasonable argument presented to keep it in the tier. It was banned from ORAS NU in a 10-0 vote.
Dragalge was NOT banned from NU, although it was moved up to RU because of the tier shifts. If it falls back down, it will be NU.

Dragalge was the most controversial of all of our suspects, evidenced by the even vote. Adaptability sets had the potential to 2HKO the entire tier, but several members pointed out that this is no different from our other impressive wallbreakers like Choice Band Sawk and Rampardos. The difference between Dragalge and other wallbreakers was established to be its defensive typing and statistical bulk - it had many more opportunities to come in and wreak havoc on teams. Its slow Speed still holds it back, though, and being Choice-locked into any of its moves allows Pokemon with immunities or solid bulk to come in after it gets a KO and set up on it (especially after a Draco Meteor, when it's sitting at -2).

Adaptability Dragalge's raw strength is indisputable, and everyone acknowledges that. The council members who voted ban generally felt that the opportunities garnered by its bulk gave it too much room to work with, while those who voted do not ban (obviously) believed the opposite. The vote ended in a 5-5 tie, and since banning needs a supermajority (or just a majority at all), Dragalge would remain NU if it were to fall back down by usage.
Lopunnite has been banned from NU. It moved up to RU with the tier shift, but if it falls back down, it will be BL3.

Lopunnite has perfect neutral coverage in its two STAB moves alone, thanks to Scrappy. While defensively frail and reliant on HJK not missing / the opponent not having Protect on everything, Mega Lopunny had no trouble walking (kicking?) all over offensive teams thanks to being faster than everything barring Mega Beedrill, Mega Sceptile, Accelgor, Electrode, and some Choice Scarf users. On top of having a fantastic 136 Attack and a handful of high-powered STAB moves, Mega Lopunny sports one of the tier's most diverse support movepools. Mega Lopunny could do everything from running Fake Out to help check other offensive teams, to running Healing Wish to punch holes and set up another Pokemon's sweep, to Baton Passing Substitutes to teammates when defensive answers like Weezing came out. Mega Lopunny's flexibility was considered too much for NU, and was banned by a 8-1-1 vote from ORAS NU.
Sceptilite has been banned from NU. It moved up to RU with the tier shift, but if it falls back down, it will be BL3.

Sceptilite was one of the more controversial suspects, considering that it simply took one of the better Pokemon in XY NU (Sceptile) and gave it upgrades all-around, leaving us with Sceptile+. These upgrades were pretty huge, however - Grass/Dragon is a fantastic typing on its own, and Sceptile's coverage options more than make up for the 4x weakness to Ice. Additionally, no Pokemon with access to STAB Ice Shard could reliably switch in on Mega Sceptile, meaning that offensive teams were forced to run either Mega Altaria or sack Pokemon mid-battle to check it. The boosted Speed meant it could run a Modest set and outspeed everything in NU up to Swellow, while still hitting harder than Life Orb standard Sceptile could.

252 SpA Life Orb Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Audino: 188-224 (45.8 - 54.6%) -- 7.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Sceptile-M Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Audino: 201-237 (49 - 57.8%) -- 55.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

It also had the ability to run a Swords Dance set, surprising any defensive checks to the offensive special variants. All in all, the buffs for Mega Sceptile were deemed too much for NU to handle even with Mega Altaria around, and thus it was banned from ORAS NU in a 7-3 vote.
Slurpuff has been banned from NU. It is now BL3.

The only major change that Slurpuff got in ORAS is Drain Punch, but access to Drain Punch has fixed 2 of the main issues that kept Slurpuff easily checked beforehand. First of all, Steel-types are no longer counters to the Belly Drum set - instead they are turned into complete liabilities vs Slurpuff, since only the most physically defensive Steel-types can remain checks at full HP. But the primary reason that Drain Punch became such a gamechanger for Slurpuff is that Drain Punch makes it incredibly difficult to revenge kill with priority moves. In XY NU, one of the best ways to handle Slurpuff was to KO it with a priority user such as Kangaskhan or Hariyama, both of which could take it down once Slurpuff was low on HP. But with Drain Punch, Slurpuff can easily heal away the damage it takes during its setup turn and any chip damage from Fake Outs, leaving only Poison-types as reliable answers to the Belly Drum set.

But Slurpuff also has a Calm Mind set, which although not broken on its own, can surprise and eliminate nearly all of the counters to the Belly Drum set. So, thanks to the ability to double its speed and maximize its Attack in a single turn, coupled with Drain Punch as a coverage and recovery option, Slurpuff could terrorize offensive and defensive teams alike with just a single opportunity to set up. With no real counters, very few checks, and mid-sweep recovery, Slurpuff was banned in a 7-3 vote from ORAS NU.
votes
 

Ares

Fool me...can't get fooled again
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Glalitite = 8 ban, 1 do not ban, 0 abstain = BANNED
Pangoro = 5 ban, 2 do not ban, 2 abstain = BANNED
Cameruptite = 1 ban, 8 do not ban, 0 abstain = NOT BANNED

Glalitite has been banned from NU

Glalitite was banned due to the massive amount of power Mega Glalie has. With Refrigerate-boosted attacks, Mega Glalie can OHKO or 2HKO nearly every offensive threat in NU. Mega Glalie's access to Refrigerate-boosted Explosion almost always guarantees it one KO per game in all but the absolute worst case scenarios. Beyond this, Mega Glalie has a lot of different options it can use to get past the few Pokemon that can still beat it. Ice Shard lets it stop many would-be revenge killers from taking it down. Super Fang allows it to stop any defensive counter without reliable recovery, essentially shutting down Steel-types as counters, while Earthquake also gave it good coverage to hit potential counters such as Metang and Probopass.

Because of Mega Glalie's overwhelming power, it has been banned from NU in a vote of 8 ban, 1 do not ban, and 0 abstain.


People who voted ban on Glalitite: Raseri, Zebraiken, Montsegur, Soulgazer, Punchshroom, Brawlfest, Hollywood, FLCL
People who voted do not ban on Glalitite: scorpdestroyer

Pangoro has been banned from NU

Pangoro has been banned from NU due to its overwhelming STABs and power. Pangoro has the ability to 2HKO nearly every defensive Pokemon in NU, while outrunning nearly every wall, making defensive teams nearly unusable. In addition, Pangoro has a great movepool that got a huge buff in ORAS, giving it better moves in almost every slot. Pangoro is also reasonably bulky, which lets it survive most non-STAB Super Effective hits, meaning it is also a threat to offensive teams, because it is very powerful.

Due to Pangoro's ability to defeat most defensive teams single handedly, while also having the tools to threaten offensive teams, it has been banned from NU in a vote of 5 ban, 2 do not ban, and 2 abstain.


People who voted ban on Pangoro: Zebraiken, Soulgazer, Punchshroom, Hollywood, FLCL
People who voted do not ban on Pangoro: Raseri, Montsegur
People who abstained from voting: scorpdestroyer, Brawlfest


Cameruptite has not been banned from NU

While Mega Camerupt has great typing and is quite powerful, its terrible Speed tier and lack of any recovery outside of Rest led to it not being banned from NU. On offensive teams, most Pokemon can cleanly 2HKO it, while defensive teams usually have multiple Pokemon that can take it on as well. Camerupt's terrible Speed means that nearly everything outside of Ferroseed will be moving before it, allowing the opponent to whittle down Camerupt very easily. Camerupt's lack of recovery also hurts its viability as a pivot, as despite having great typing and defenses, in practice it has proven to be underwhelming.

Due to Camerupt's low Speed and lack of recovery, it has not been banned from NU in a vote of 1 ban, 8 do not ban, and 0 abstain.


People who voted ban on Cameruptite: Zebraiken
People who voted do not ban on Cameruptite: Raseri, Montsegur, Soulgazer, Punchshroom, Brawlfest, Hollywood, FLCL
 

Ares

Fool me...can't get fooled again
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Serperior Verdict:
Raseri: Ban
Zebraiken: Ban
Bad Name Change Cased: Ban
Brawlfest: Ban
Dat Blast: Ban
FLCL: Ban
Hollywood: Ban
marilli: Ban
Montsegur: Ban
Punchshroom: Ban
Soulgazer: Ban
scorpdestroyer: Ban

Contrary Serperior has been deemed clearly overwhelming for NU, and it's really no question why if you played the metagame with Serperior at all. Having a STAB base 130 Nasty Plot at your hands whenever Serperior comes in reshapes the metagame entirely, and even all of the supposed checks for Serperior can be beaten by Serperior itself thanks to moves like Gastro Acid and Dragon Tail. Serperior is so uniquely dominant that it makes Pokemon like Samurott and Feraligatr (traditionally fantastic NU Pokemon) suboptimal team choices, and transforms the metagame into "who checks Serperior better". The ability to boost to +2 in a turn combined with Serperior's naturally high speed and ability to outmaneuver its checks and counters absolutely warrants a ban from NU.
 
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Ares

Fool me...can't get fooled again
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Steelixite and Heliolisk are banned from NU. You can see it all here.

For reference, Steelixite was banned due to its massive bulk allowing it to check most physical attackers, many special attackers, while also having great attacking potential, which made it by far the most consistent Stealth Rock user in NU. As one of 3 megas, there was very little opportunity cost, and its effectiveness centralized NU around it immensely.

Heliolisk was banned from NU because of its amazing ability to grab and maintain momentum. A powerful STAB Volt Switch, a long with excellent coverage, allowed Heliolisk to defeat many offensive teams outright. Being one of the fastest Pokemon in NU, Heliolisk forced players to run many subpar Pokemon in an attempt to beat it, many of which lost anyways.

For a more detailed description check out the posts in the np: Stage 4 - Celebration (Steelixite and Heliolisk Banned) thread
 
Feraligatr is banned from NU


Raseri: ban
Zebraiken: ???
Soulgazer: Ban
FLCL: Ban
Punchshroom: Ban
Hollywood: Ban
Montsegur: Ban
Brawlfest: Ban
Dat Blast: Ban
scorpdestroyer: ban
marilli: ban
Rich Homie Cased: ???


Feraligatr has been banned from NU due to its its ability Sheer Force, which made an already top threat ridiculously powerful, as most of its common moves got the Sheer Force boost. Feraligatr has excellent typing, above average bulk, and many different options that can all destroy different kinds of teams. All of Swords Dance, Dragon Dance, and Agility are viable as set up options, and all work very well against different kinds of teams. Even a special attacker set is viable to lure in traditional checks and counters to physical sets! The amount of power Feraligatr has compared to the rest of NU is ridiculous, as many teams were forced to run multiple subpar Pokemon in hopes of beating Feraligatr.. If you want more information about why Feraligatr was banned, read some of the many great posts in this thread, such as hollywood's post here.
 
The vote is now over. Both Cameruptite and Typhlosion will be banned from NU. You can see the results here

Reasonings:

Typhlosion has been banned from NU due to the significant strain it puts on teambuilding, as the majority of its checks have no recovery and are weak to its coverage options. This strain, along with the sheer wallbreaking prowess Typhlosion possesses, and the decent utility of the Charcoal + Will-O-Wisp set, has caused it to be banned from NU.


As one of the 2 remaining megas in NU, Mega Camerupt is a huge threat just by existing. But Mega Camerupts Sheer Force boosted Fire Blasts and Earth Powers are simply to hard to switch into. This, combined with Mega Camerupts great bulk, solid defensive typing, and excellent utility options have led voters to believe that Mega Camerupt is broken in NU.
 

Disjunction

Everything I waste gets recycled
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Top Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
NeverUsed Premier League III

Winner: Cased and the Bodybag Beartics!

Runner-Up: Finchinator and the Atomic Articunos!

The NeverUsed Smogon Premier League III was once against hosted. This time, with the addition of ADV NU and the current format ORAS NU. In the finals Cased and the Beartics faced off against their Week 2 opponent, the Articunos, and repeated their Week 2 victory, taking on the honor of being the winners of the third installment of NUPL.

NeverUsed Premier League II

Winner: FLCL and the Viritolic Vileplumes!

Runnner-Up: Soulgazer and The Amazing Ainsleys!

NeverUsed Smogon Premier League II is a smaller SPL, hosted on the NU forums. NUPL draws out some of the most competent NU players from every generation, as NUPL II featured XY, BW, and DPP as playable formats. FLCL and the Vileplumes, after losing to the Ainsleys in Week 5, came back to beat them in the finals, taking on the honor of being the winners of the second installment of NUPL.

NeverUsed Ladder Tournaments

NeverUsed Ladder Tournament

Winner: Teddeh

Runner-Up: AquaJetBreloom

NeverUsed Ladder Tournament II

Winner: Teddeh

Runner-Up: Trade

NeverUsed Mini-Tournaments

NU Minitour - The Future of NU

Winner: Blapperl

Runner-Up: ~Eternally

NU Minitour - The Ones Left Behind

Winner: Tricking

Runner-Up: fssong

NU Minitour - Contrabanned

Winner: rozes

Runner-Up: Ren-chon

NU Minitour - Black STABbath II

Winner: Shaneghoul

Runner-Up: Blaziken1337

NU Ban Happy

Winner: marilli

Runner-Up: Deej Dy

NU Golden Age

Winner: Syncrasy

Runner-Up: shaneghoul

NUgget Bridge

Winner: Disjunction

NeverUsed Blast From The Past

Winner: Pokedots

Runner-Up: Oshony PokeGod

NeverUsed Saving the Metagame

Winner: Dentricos

Runner-Up: Blapperl

NeverUsed Six Slot Slaughter

Winner: Quite Quiet

Runner-Up: Disjunction

NeverUsed ORAS NU Minitour

Winner: Teddeh

Runner-Up: Kiyo and Void

NeverUsed Conquest

Winner: Aladyyn

Runner-Up: Omfuga and Quite Quiet

NeverUsed Minitour IV: Double the Salt

Winner: U-Turn Out

Runner-Up: Teddeh

NU Minitour III - Black STABbath

Winner: FLCL

Runner-Up: atomicllamas

NU Minitour II: If I Had You

Winner: Koinzell

Runner-Up: Bobby REKT and FLCL

NU Minitour I

Winner: Aerow

Runner-Up: scotti
 
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scorpdestroyer has stepped down from his position on the NU Council. Thank you for everything you've done for NU since BW, you're a great guy and I hope you are able to contribute more in the future.

We have chosen Disjunction to fill scorps place on the NU Council, you may know him as the tourney guy, hes done great things with tour league, and has been an amazing contributor since he first got involved with NU. Congratulations, Disjunction
 
We are updating the NU council again, thank you to Can-Eh-Dian, marilli, and Finchinator for your contributions to NU, you're all great guys and I hope you are active again some day :D

In order to fill the shoes of these great people, we found 4 new members! Welcome to boltsandbombers, iplaytennislol, Pokedots, and rw. I believe that you guys can do a great job contributing to NU, and you have all earned your spot on the council.

Make sure to send your congratulations to all of them, and thank our leaving members for everything they've done!

(ghost)
 
Today I have some less happy news, long term moderator and contributor Montsegur is retiring from his position as an NU Moderator. He has been with us for a long time, and to me, marked the turning point between the old BW NU Community, and the new XY NU Community. Everyone here wishes you the absolute best going forward, and know you will always be welcomed back here should you wish.

Thank you Montsegur.
 

Disjunction

Everything I waste gets recycled
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Top Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Today I have some less happy news, long term moderator and contributor Montsegur is retiring from his position as an NU Moderator. He has been with us for a long time, and to me, marked the turning point between the old BW NU Community, and the new XY NU Community. Everyone here wishes you the absolute best going forward, and know you will always be welcomed back here should you wish.

Thank you Montsegur.
lol jk he's back on the team
 
It saddens me to say that Pokedots will be leaving us, due to a waning interest in Pokemon. Thank you for all of your contributions to NU, and for our awesome anime discussions. You're a great contributor and I wish you the best going forward.

Although I have some good news as well. Rapture. is being added to the NU Council. He has been on a tear lately, and has constantly proven that he is a capable NUer who has everything we are looking for in a council member. Welcome aboard, Rapture!
 
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