Metagame NP: RU Stage 17: Try Again / Do It Again (Shaymin and Slurpuff banned, Tangrowth up to OU)

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This thread is dead RIP

Wanted to share some thoughts about some mons I've been testing on ladder. They both are niche stuff so pls don't kill me ;_;



Miror B. (Ludicolo) @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Giga Drain
- Ice Beam
- Rain Dance

As RU lacks good fast water types (#MegaFloatzel7thGen), Ludicolo seems the most acceptable one with it's ability to check Water types with its x4 resist and a Grass STAB for actually being threatening to them. Out of rain teams is actually able to "set up" mons like on Alomomola, Blastoise, or non-Sludge Wave Seismitoad. Rain boosted Hydro has very few switch-ins and most of them are either dealed with STAB Giga Drain or Ice Beam, beating common Alomomola's cores (Diancie, Steelix,etc.).Still struggles vs offense but Ludicolo has enough speed and power to have a place on non rain teams imo.

252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Registeel in Rain: 164-192 (45 - 52.7%) -- 88.3% chance to 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes and Leftovers recovery





Piesito (Aurorus) @ Leftovers
Ability: Refrigerate
EVs: 96 HP / 160 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Hyper Voice
- Freeze-Dry
- Earth Power/HP Fire/Filler

Needed a SR and a Flying resist for a team, and I was specially concerned about BU Braviary. As I hate Rock Blast on Rhyperior, came up with this mon. Even though is weak to a lot of stuff thanks to its terrible defensive typing, it does its job, and quite good. Extra bulk and lefties gives a lot of sirveillance over Speed, which is not that important now as Scrafty and Exploud have declined a lot on these months.Freeze Dry prevents Flygon and Blastoise from switch-in and removing rocks, which is huge.


Thanks for reading ^^
 

MrAldo

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So I want to share my thoughts about the current metagame like right now cause in roughly a week we will be getting a new NP thread most likely (lots of new broken drops!!) so yeah, the focus will change completely into these new drops until it stabilizes so I want to share some metagame thoughts.



We all know how volt-turn strategies have been pretty prevalent after Mega Steelix departure (damn, it has been a while since that, time flies) but rotom-cut is particularly great nowadays virtue of certain metagame trends. First, virizion getting less common (still a mighty threat) due to teams being really prepared for it and dugtrio prevalence in the metagame give this rotom-form a lot of breathing room. Being able to chip down venusaur through volt switch is nice. It can be run hp flying to 2hko both venusaur and virizion with a life orb or specs set. Second, it is an actual magneton check since it has take any attack (flash cannon does nice damage tho) and outdamage it thanks to leaf storm doing a fuck ton, even on scarf sets. Grass checks are focused in dealing with venusaur and virizion so rotom-cut can take advantage of those thanks to being part electric, pressures braviary which is prevalent and dugtrio cant do shit to it! Really nice mon right now.



Dark types are as good as ever, perhaps somewhat better cause their checks still remain uncommon or nowhere to be seen, but Sneasel and Drapion have established themselves as THE dark types to put on teams over the rest cause of their fantastic capabilities in supporting teams. Sneasel having a fantastic natural speed tier being naturally faster than every psychic type (unless they pack a scarf) allow it to diminish the risk of failing to pursuit trap a Psychic type since you can easily go for knock off and stuff, being a lot more safe to use than other dark types since they are slower than stuff like sigilyph. There is also the plus of threat a massive threat for offense and providing a lot of flexibility to teams thanks to that speed tier (I dont like banded sneasel mind you). Drapion is just fantastic. Incredible typing with just one weakness that is easily patched by packing a shuca berry (really nice set btw), bulk to actually switch into most psychic types at least once and being one of the best venusaur checks available, amazing versatility since it can pull off SD sets, banded and scarf sets really consistently and just being easy to put on basically every team, from stall to hyper offense, such a good pokemon and I love it.



Pokemon like Hariyama and Emboar are really dope cause offensive ice resists are lacking after durant departure so I serve as a mean to check sneasel and mega glalie on balance and offensive teams, mainly mega glalie cause good lord that thing is strong as fuck. People sleep on offensive water types like Omastar and stuff. Trust me it is an amazing win condition that can make comebacks!!. Now, to the FOCAL POINT of this post

<------------

This Pokemon is disgusting, straight up. Never seen a Pokemon that already puts you on a inmediate disadvantage on team preview without even trying. Making Pokemon that fulfill a niche from being challenging to use from being basically liabilities when you consider how common Dugtrio is atm. Delphox being really powerful and stuff... nope Dugtrio, Lanturn to check Magneton, nope this Pokemon is trapped by Dugtrio, Diancie even tho it can circumvent Dugtrio to an extent thanks to offensive shuca berry being a good set gets worn down much more easily and it doesnt soft check stuff like Meloetta in the process, why use Mega Camerupt when Dugtrio will be there? Virizion being a good win condition and what not, nope trapped by dugtrio, Houndoom, Non Shuca Drapion, Registeel, etc. The amount of Pokemon Dugtrio can get rid of, make unviable or simply weaken for another setup sweeper or Pokemon in the back is just enfuriating, sometimes you will just be playing 5v6 on a well played Dugtrio or even worse cause this Pokemon is absurdly easy to support with Pokemon like Alomomola to scout for movesets on choice locked electric types and uxie and flygon to bring it safely on U-Turn. Just gotta add that you shouldnt be having a team composed of too many ground weak Pokemon for starters, ground immunities are an important element in teambuilding and you cant afford to be sweep not only by dugtrio when virizion is your ground resist, but lose to a banded or scarfed flygon and even a fucking rhyperior, Aerodactyl or anything that runs ground coverage, thats just bad teambuilding. Arena Trap is an absurd ability and imo, the tier is pretty vulnerable to it.

I will love to hear opinions on Dugtrio cause I do believe it is extremely unhealthy and borderline broken (or just flat out broken). I will discuss this in the future cause the main focus right now is seeing how the new drops will affect the tier (and trust me, they WILL destroy it) so see you later on another np thread.

Cheers! Cya until drops!
 
<------------

This Pokemon is disgusting, straight up. Never seen a Pokemon that already puts you on a inmediate disadvantage on team preview without even trying. Making Pokemon that fulfill a niche from being challenging to use from being basically liabilities when you consider how common Dugtrio is atm. Delphox being really powerful and stuff... nope Dugtrio, Lanturn to check Magneton, nope this Pokemon is trapped by Dugtrio, Diancie even tho it can circumvent Dugtrio to an extent thanks to offensive shuca berry being a good set gets worn down much more easily and it doesnt soft check stuff like Meloetta in the process, why use Mega Camerupt when Dugtrio will be there? Virizion being a good win condition and what not, nope trapped by dugtrio, Houndoom, Non Shuca Drapion, Registeel, etc. The amount of Pokemon Dugtrio can get rid of, make unviable or simply weaken for another setup sweeper or Pokemon in the back is just enfuriating, sometimes you will just be playing 5v6 on a well played Dugtrio or even worse cause this Pokemon is absurdly easy to support with Pokemon like Alomomola to scout for movesets on choice locked electric types and uxie and flygon to bring it safely on U-Turn. Just gotta add that you shouldnt be having a team composed of too many ground weak Pokemon for starters, ground immunities are an important element in teambuilding and you cant afford to be sweep not only by dugtrio when virizion is your ground resist, but lose to a banded or scarfed flygon and even a fucking rhyperior, Aerodactyl or anything that runs ground coverage, thats just bad teambuilding. Arena Trap is an absurd ability and imo, the tier is pretty vulnerable to it.

I will love to hear opinions on Dugtrio cause I do believe it is extremely unhealthy and borderline broken (or just flat out broken). I will discuss this in the future cause the main focus right now is seeing how the new drops will affect the tier (and trust me, they WILL destroy it) so see you later on another np thread.

Cheers! Cya until drops!
I don't think good trappers are inherently broken. The Dugtrio user has to play well for it to properly trap, as because of its garbage bulk, it's hard to get a safe and guaranteed switchin -- many times you will need to make a good play and predict the double switch in order to trap what you need to, which while very rewarding, is also similarly risky. I also don't think a Pokemon that punishes sloppy teambuilding is a bad thing -- stacking too many Ground-type weaknesses is generally undesirable, and aside from Virizion, the only Pokemon Dugtrio is really able to trap somewhat reliably are all Pokemon weak to Ground-types. I also do not think it's a bad thing that Dugtrio pushes down an otherwise massive threat like Virizion and makes it slightly less massive is a bad thing. Virizion should definitely not be your only Ground-type resist, as it flat out loses to Pokemon like standard Rhyperior and Choice Band Flygon. While Dugtrio constricts teambuilding in some ways, it opens up teambuilding in new ways with offensive combinations such as Dugtrio + Fletchinder, or even Dugtrio on a semistall team to dispatch otherwise terrifying wallbreakers.

Many of the Pokemon you listed can make themselves less vulnerable to Dugtrio, or in some cases, flat out beat Dugtrio. Diancie can use Shuca Berry, Registeel can use Curse, Houndoom can use Sucker Punch, Delphox can use Choice Scarf, Magneton can use Sturdy over Analytic, Drapion can use either Choice Scarf or Shuca Berry, and so on. Mega Camerupt, Virizion and Lanturn are unfortunately not really able to overcome this weakness without making themselves much worse, but Mega Camerupt and Virizion are still strong Pokemon already, and Lanturn, while admittedly impacted negatively by Dugtrio, would still not be particularly great as it's a Water-type that can't check Ground-types (which is obviously relevant for a lot more than Dugtrio).

Even when Dugtrio gets a successful trap after 1) Getting Dugtrio a safe switchin 2) Getting the right condition that allows Dugtrio to trap X Pokemon, momentum can swing the other way as there are a ton of Pokemon Dugtrio fails to do significant damage to; for example, it invites Choice Band Flygon in for a free U-turn. Generally any Pokemon that isn't weak to Ground is able to easily survive one of Dugtrio's attacks and threaten to OHKO it back, which often puts a lot of pressure on the Dugtrio team itself.

In my opinion, there are enough ways to interact with Dugtrio for it to be healthy for the tier as many of Dugtrio's traps are conditional. Dugtrio requires a good amount of skill from the players part to perform effectively, as well as good game awareness, and while it does constrain teambuilding in some ways, I'm not convinced Dugtrio constrains it in a negative way aside from keeping some niche Pokemon like Lanturn down.
 
So I see Shaymin's just dropped. This thing is going to be incredibly threatening, maybe even broken (will hold off on final judgment until I've actually used it). LO + 3 attacks is its best set IMO, between Seed Flare, Earth Power, Psychic / Air Slash / Dazzling Gleam pretty much nothing can safely switch in. It also has good bulk and Natural Cure, so stall teams will be feeling the pain.
 
escavalier,bronzong, fletch, braviary, golbat looks like the main answer but the possible -2 spD on the switch makes shaymin really threatening against slower answer.

252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Psychic vs. -2 248 HP / 180+ SpD Eviolite Golbat: 265-312 (75 - 88.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Psychic vs. -2 252 HP / 168+ SpD Braviary: 200-237 (49.5 - 58.6%) -- 69.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

For Slurpuff, there are no more Doublade and Msteelix in the tier to reliably manage it, it will be interesting to look how the meta will adapt.
 
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Wandering Wobbuffet

formerly Based Honker
interesting? What do we even have that can remotely deal with puffy? Our best steel answers are like aggron registeel and those can be easily broken by drain punch and like golbat(?) on the off chance you're feeling cheeky you can run specially offensive puff. idk man the last time it was in ru our defensive answers were rly forced but now? :/ let's hope that we can find a way to deal with it :( it seems to me that shaymin and puff will compliment each other quite well.
I mean we have bronzong still which due to its part steel typing makes drain punch neutral and has high defense. Not only that but the only thing zone fears from shaymin is a - 2 spdef drop due to it having levitate.
 
For the defensive answer :

+6 252 Atk Slurpuff Drain Punch vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Escavalier: 226-267 (69.7 - 82.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+6 252 Atk Slurpuff Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Bronzong: 207-244 (61.2 - 72.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

defensive venu :
+6 252 Atk Slurpuff Return vs. 248 HP / 96+ Def Venusaur: 305-359 (84 - 98.8%)


These one are less relevant, golbat cant oko back and cofa just wow.
+6 252 Atk Slurpuff Return vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Golbat: 192-227 (54.3 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+6 252 Atk Slurpuff Play Rough vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 235-277 (73.6 - 86.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

qwilfish is not an anwser directly, can only twave, doesnt look reliable
+5 252 Atk Slurpuff Return vs. 252 HP / 200 Def Qwilfish: 280-330 (83.8 - 98.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
+6 252 Atk Slurpuff Return vs. 252 HP / 200 Def Qwilfish: 321-378 (96.1 - 113.1%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

Maybe a rise in weezing usage :
+6 252 Atk Slurpuff Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing: 204-240 (61 - 71.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
 
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Also adding on:

+6 252 Atk Slurpuff Return vs. 252 HP / 188+ Def Garbodor: 279-329 (76.6 - 90.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+6 252 Atk Slurpuff Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Steelix: 256-302 (72.3 - 85.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
 

EonX

Battle Soul
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The problem with Slurpuff is that, outside of Bronzong and Lefties Escavalier, you can't ever let your answer get worn down; ever. Yeah, defensive Venusaur can take a hit, but it can't be used up on anything else. (which sucks ass) Garbodor can barely be used on anything and doesn't always have black sludge recovery. Steelix can barely be used for anything else. Like, literally you're playing a 6v5 battle the moment you see Slurpuff because whatever answer you have for it can't ever be worn down by anything else on the opposing team. Also, proper Venusaur calc is:

+6 252 Atk Slurpuff Return vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Venusaur: 269-317 (74.1 - 87.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery

Still not great, but at least you can take Rocks damage. So yeah, I hope this thing goes soon lmao. There's a couple of sets I think Shaymin might be able to succeed with:


Shaymin @ Life Orb
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Seed Flare
- Earth Power
- Synthesis
- Psychic / Air Slash

Synthesis + 3 Attacks is a no-brainer with Shaymin's stat spread and typing. Thanks to Natural Cure, Shaymin can actually hold up against bulky Water-types since it doesn't care about Scald the moment it switches out. Psychic is almost always preferred to nail Weezing, Qwilfish, and Golbat, but Air Slash can be nice if you're really weak to Virizion. Everything else is kind of necessary on the set for obvious reasons.


Shaymin @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Seed Flare
- Earth Power
- Air Slash
- Healing Wish

Shaymin can probably do well with a Scarf set as well thanks to its Speed tier, strong STAB move, and access to two key moves; Air Slash and Healing Wish. Air Slash lets Shaymin revenge kill Virizion quite easily (if it hits ofc bc it is Pokemon) while Healing Wish is a key move that Shaymin can use to revitalize a teammate for late-game use after Shaymin has served its purpose. Not much else to really talk about here. Use it with strong wallbreakers and look for chances to revenge kill fast mons and bring back that wallbreaker in the end-game.


Shaymin @ Leftovers / Life Orb
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Leech Seed
- Seed Flare
- Air Slash / Psychic
- Substitute / Protect

While Shaymin is able to tear apart a lot of Pokemon with its coverage, lets not forget that it has 100 / 100 / 100 defenses and access to Leech Seed + coverage for Grass-types. The choice of coverage comes down to if you want the chance to OHKO Virizion and hit all Grass-types or if you want the stronger hit on Poison-types, especially Venusaur. Leftovers should be used when Shaymin uses Subsitute as its "stalling" move while Protect should be used if Shaymin opts to use Life Orb. Leftovers is generally more preferred with this set, but don't discount what the power boost can do for Shaymin in certain situations
 
I thought Alomomola could check Slurpuff, but now:

+6 252 Atk Slurpuff Play Rough vs. 120 HP / 136+ Def Alomomola: 396-466 (79 - 93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Assuming full physically defensive Alomomola:

+6 252 Atk Slurpuff Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 352-415 (65.9 - 77.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Alomomola can only take one hit and wins 30% of the time if it gets the Scald burn or successfully uses Toxic and possibly makes the based cupcake switch out.

I'd say that it has to go back to BL2, because with Unburden, it destroys teams. Nothing outspeeds it at +2, and if it gets the Belly Drum up, it 2HKOes pretty much everything in RU with just Play Rough, Return, and Drain Punch. Can't really revenge kill because it can take one good priority hit and heal with Drain Punch. It doesn't even need the special set because nothing can take two hits from this when it gets that Belly Drum boost.
 
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Well, now it's time to use Slurpuff in RU as much as humanly possible until it inevitably gets banned to BL2. I mean really, this thing 2HKOs the entire meta, there's no way it stays in RU.
 

ManOfMany

I can make anything real
is a Tiering Contributor
You guys are underestimating the threat because you're using Jolly Slurpuff. Most of the common Scarfers in the tier are quite slow, unless I'm mistaken. Adamant Slurpuff outspeeds Emboar, Magneton, Medicham, Timid Meloetta, Jolly Drapion (puke), and Adamant Flygon.

have fun using Scarf Jolly Flygon again

EDIT: and Delphox I guess
 
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Here's how the aforementioned calcs look with Adamant compared to Jolly, assuming Slurpuff can afford to run Adamant:

Against Escavalier:
+6 252 Atk Slurpuff Drain Punch vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Escavalier: 226-267 (69.7 - 82.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+6 252+ Atk Slurpuff Drain Punch vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Escavalier: 248-292 (76.5 - 90.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Against Bronzong:
+6 252 Atk Slurpuff Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Bronzong: 207-244 (61.2 - 72.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+6 252+ Atk Slurpuff Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Bronzong: 227-268 (67.1 - 79.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Against Tank Venusaur:
+6 252 Atk Slurpuff Return vs. 252 HP / 216 Def Venusaur: 295-348 (81 - 95.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
+6 252+ Atk Slurpuff Return vs. 252 HP / 216 Def Venusaur: 324-382 (89 - 104.9%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

Against Physically Defensive Golbat:
+6 252 Atk Slurpuff Return vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Golbat: 192-227 (54.3 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+6 252+ Atk Slurpuff Return vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Golbat: 211-249 (59.7 - 70.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Against Physically Defensive Cofagrigus:
+6 252 Atk Slurpuff Play Rough vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 235-277 (73.6 - 86.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+6 252+ Atk Slurpuff Play Rough vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 258-304 (80.8 - 95.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Against Intimidate Qwilfish (assuming Slurpuff is already +6 when Qwilfish comes in):
+5 252 Atk Slurpuff Return vs. 252 HP / 200 Def Qwilfish: 280-330 (83.8 - 98.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
+5 252+ Atk Slurpuff Return vs. 252 HP / 200 Def Qwilfish: 307-362 (91.9 - 108.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

Against Qwilfish (assuming Slurpuff is at -1 and uses Belly Drum, ending up at +6):
+6 252 Atk Slurpuff Return vs. 252 HP / 200 Def Qwilfish: 321-378 (96.1 - 113.1%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
+6 252+ Atk Slurpuff Return vs. 252 HP / 200 Def Qwilfish: 351-414 (105 - 123.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Against Weezing:
+6 252 Atk Slurpuff Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing: 204-240 (61 - 71.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
+6 252+ Atk Slurpuff Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing: 223-263 (66.7 - 78.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

Against Garbodor:
+6 252 Atk Slurpuff Return vs. 252 HP / 188+ Def Garbodor: 279-329 (76.6 - 90.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+6 252+ Atk Slurpuff Return vs. 252 HP / 188+ Def Garbodor: 306-361 (84 - 99.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Against Steelix:
+6 252 Atk Slurpuff Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Steelix: 256-302 (72.3 - 85.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+6 252+ Atk Slurpuff Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Steelix: 280-330 (79 - 93.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Against Alomomola (Standard spread):
+6 252 Atk Slurpuff Play Rough vs. 120 HP / 136+ Def Alomomola: 396-466 (79 - 93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+6 252+ Atk Slurpuff Play Rough vs. 120 HP / 136+ Def Alomomola: 433-511 (86.4 - 101.9%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

Against Alomomola (252 Def and 252 HP):
+6 252 Atk Slurpuff Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 352-415 (65.9 - 77.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+6 252+ Atk Slurpuff Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 387-456 (72.4 - 85.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

As you can tell, the damage increase can play a big factor. Of course this is if hypothetically, Slurpuff could afford to run an Adamant nature.
 
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DW GUYS I HAVE THE SLURPUFF COUNTER


Honedge @ Eviolite
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 236 HP / 252 Atk / 20 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Sneak
- Iron Head
- Shadow Claw

Why use Poison-types when you can use HONEDGE!? This thing absolutely obliterates BD Slurpuff, as can be seen by the following calc:
+6 252 Atk Slurpuff Play Rough vs. 236 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Honedge: 141-167 (48.6 - 57.5%) -- 95.3% chance to 2HKO
Iron Head does 71% minimum, meaning that + Shadow Sneak is a guaranteed KO after Slurpuff uses Belly Drum. Honedge also counters other devastating Fighting-types in this tier, such as Medicham and Virizion; this means that it's usefulness isn't solely limited to beating the monstrosity known as Slurpuff. It also counters Braviary, obviously (you can run Sacred Sword > Shadow Claw if you want to beat Braviary even harder). The fact that it counters all of these threats make it a perfect addition to any RegiMola team, especially because Alomomola's wish passing makes it even more potent as a defensive behemoth. 20 Speed EVs allows it to outrun 0 Speed Slowking; you can Speed creep more if you want. Keep in mind, it tanks the aforementioned +6 Play Rough with no defense investment, meaning that it is actually relatively strong after a Swords Dance. Now, keep in mind, CM Slurpuff still destroys this Pokemon, but like...Slurpuff is broken, so what the fuck did you expect really? Real talk though, Honedge is honestly a solid Pokemon in this metagame for however long the plague known as Slurpuff exists here.

Replay of DTC getting savaged by the god: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-410915588
 
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DW GUYS I HAVE THE SLURPUFF COUNTER


Honedge @ Eviolite
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 236 HP / 252 Atk / 20 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Sneak
- Iron Head
- Shadow Claw

Why use Poison-types when you can use HONEDGE!? This thing absolutely obliterates BD Slurpuff, as can be seen by the following calc:
+6 252 Atk Slurpuff Play Rough vs. 236 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Honedge: 141-167 (48.6 - 57.5%) -- 95.3% chance to 2HKO
Iron Head does 71% minimum, meaning that + Shadow Sneak is a guaranteed KO after Slurpuff uses Belly Drum. Honedge also counters other devastating Fighting-types in this tier, such as Medicham and Virizion; this means that it's usefulness isn't solely limited to beating the monstrosity known as Slurpuff. It also counters Braviary, obviously (you can run Sacred Sword > Shadow Claw if you want to beat Braviary even harder). The fact that it counters all of these threats make it a perfect addition to any RegiMola team, especially because Alomomola's wish passing makes it even more potent as a defensive behemoth. 20 Speed EVs allows it to outrun 0 Speed Slowking; you can Speed creep more if you want. Keep in mind, it tanks the aforementioned +6 Play Rough with no defense investment, meaning that it is actually relatively strong after a Swords Dance. Now, keep in mind, CM Slurpuff still destroys this Pokemon, but like...Slurpuff is broken, so what the fuck did you expect really? Real talk though, Honedge is honestly a solid Pokemon in this metagame for however long the plague known as Slurpuff exists here.

Replay of DTC getting savaged by the god: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-410915588
I compleately, 100% agree, Honedge is clearly the face of the new RU Meta. It's defensive stats and ability are unrivaled in the tier and it is miles more bulky than the pathetic excuses for defensve walls we already have like Alomomola. Who needs 165 Base HP when you can have Base 45? I have no idea how we possibly could have ignored Honedge's unrivaled defensive potential for so long. It may not have recovery, but who even needs recovery with Base 37 SpDef? And this thing even gets Eviolite, which makes it the most unkillable god-like pokemon of all time. So in conclusion, we should immediately bump Honedge up to S-Rank, it's clearly the most useful pokemon of all time who has zero counters.









Or at least until Slurpuff gets banned in a few days.
 
Honestly I think the most broken Slurpuff set is actually CottonCM, everyone expects BD, then you CG, then they're like LOL, noob, then you CM, then you sweep.
 
okay i know everyone is terrified of slurpuff and shaymin (as am I) but the quality of the posts in this thread has really gone down the past day (aside from shake's glorious post and eonx's). some of them are borderline shitposts. and some have crossed the border and haven't looked back.

like saying slurpuff 2hko's the entire meta after a belly drum and thus should be banned is silly because it's a belly drum sweeper so it kinda has to OHKO in order to sweep. for the record i think slurpuff is pretty broken but that reason just struck me as odd.

if you're gonna theorymon (which you prolly are since afaik the ladder hasn't been updated yet?), you should put more substance into your post and not just be like "oml slurpuff and shaymin are so broken they ate my family please ban".

using calcs to supplement your argument is obviously encouraged but it shouldn't be your argument as then you're just posting a wall of calcs. also Aubisio you should go more in depth w/ the cotton guard + cm set, what do you plan on using moves and EV wise, etc. atm you're just saying it has surprise factor, which while that is a positive attribute of that set and can win you a game, the set needs to be 1) consistent 2) good enough 3) be able to bypass traditional belly drum counters in order for it to be worth using over the already fantastic belly drum set.


here are my thoughts on the two mons that i've posted in another place:

slurpuff definitely seems very dumb

the only things that really survive a +6 attack from it are really bulky poisons (and not really defensive venu) / steel-types not weak to fighting aka bronzong and escavalier. these pokemon all share the same characteristics of 1) having no reliable recovery and thus being easy to wear down to the point where slurpuff can KO them and 2) needing to squeeze every last bit of EV investment into defense to actually be a good answer (aside from zonger), making them generally less effective vs everything else as they struggle to check pokemon they need to check like venusaur

checking slurpuff offensively is also a difficult task as it outspeeds every good scarfer aside from flygon / delphox with an adamant nature. it's also actually kinda tanky for a BD sweeper, only taking 56% max from adamant life orb medicham bullet punch, and being generally resistant to priority like mach punch / sucker punch. while belly drum sweepers are hard to set up, and slurpuff has to still be careful when setting up, fairy-typing and 82 / 86 bulk allows it to set up on quite a lot of pokemon like virizion, scarf medicham and scarf drapion just off the top of my head, or it can tank status and set up on a defensive pokemon to ravage the team.



also yeah shaymin is dumb. it 2hkos a large part of the metagame while being very tanky w/ synthesis and being faster than most common pokemon. even revenge killing it is a tall task because only a few pokemon like scarf emboar actually outspeed and ohko. (for reference, ada scarf drap does 78% max w/ poison jab). a lot of the venusaur checks don't really work for shaymin because of psychic + earth power coverage, leaving you stuck with a very limited amount of solid switchins like escavalier and spdef braviary. meanwhile, shaymin's overall solid stats gives a lot of breathing room vs the pokemon it does force out, and gives it an exceptional amount of longevity for such a potent offensive threat.
tl;dr oml slurpuff and shaymin are so broken they ate my family please ban.
 
For the couple upcoming days where Shaymin will be allowed on ladder, here's a fun set I came up with:

492.gif

Shaymin @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 148 Def / 108 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
- Giga Drain / Seed Flare
- Earth Power / Synthesis

Weird? Yes. Slow? Yes. Amazing? We'll see, but I think it should work pretty well. This spread and moveset allow Shaymin to set up a Sub on both Registeel and Bronzong, and Bronzong's Gyro Ball and Registeel's Seismic Toss and Iron Head all fail to break the Sub. Not only that, but they can't status you and force you to switch out and activate Natural Cure thanks to Sub. I'm going to try pairing this with Specs Meloetta, which lures in Bronzong and Registeel and can pivot into Shaymin with U-Turn. Then you just need to slap a Slurpuff on the team, and it's gg once two of Slurpuff's biggest counters have been lured in and dealt with/severely weakened by both Specs Meloetta and SubSeed Shaymin. Should be a fun few days. Happy laddering!
 

MANNAT

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Just for kicks, here's pretty much the optimized slurpuff set that I've got freshly primed to body the metagame.


Slurpuff @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 76 HP / 252 Atk / 182 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Drain Punch
- Return
- Play Rough

The funky EV spread is basically made so that Slurpuff outspeeds the entire metagame up to adamant scarfed flygon after a bd because anything faster than that requires jolly to creep while having the perfect hp investment to make sitrus pop after a bd. Max attack adamant hits noticeably harder than jolly, and I'll probably be running it and choose to scout for jolly scarf gon. Play rough makes up your standard fairy STAB, Return is a solid normal STAB to hit poisons for huge damage and even OHKOing qwilfish after boosting. Lastly, drain punch can offer some helpful recovery to take you out of range of being rkilled by priority moves and such while also busting through steel types that think they wall you. Hope you guys liked the set. :)


Dugtrio @ Life Orb
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Pursuit (nice try escaping honedge)
- Memento

Also to add onto this, Dugtrio is an AMAZING partner for slurpuff, being able to rid basically every poison and steel type avaliable to us (bar brondong, golbat, and lord honedge), clearly paving the way for a slurpuff sweep, not only taking out slurp counters with STAB eq, but also giving slurp a chance to setup with memento. I've also got a kewl shaymin set, but I'll share it later when I'm not tired.
 
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atomicllamas

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If I were gonna pair slurpuff with anything I'd probably go with Knock Off Venu since after knock Golbat/Weezing/Garbo/Escavalier/Bronzong/insert poison or steel neutral (or immune) to fight all die to a +6 Puff attack. Venu also lures these mons in because they are the best responses to Venu barring like Registeel on Balance. I haven't had a chance to play the meta at all yet, but I think that would be the first thing I'd test out. That's probably Venu's biggest niche over Shaymin right now (and sleep powder I guess). I mean if you were feeling really ballsy Knock + dual stab + sleep powder Venu could probably render puff's counters impotent while creating set up opportunities on sleeping mons.

I really don't believe cm cg is better (or even usable) considering drum was the best set when puff didn't have drain punch and doublade was the best mon in the tier. If anything cm variants seem extremely underwhelming given it has worse issues w/ poison types and really only beats Escavalier better which in reality loses to drum puff already.
 

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For the couple upcoming days where Shaymin will be allowed on ladder, here's a fun set I came up with:

View attachment 66644
Shaymin @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 148 Def / 108 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
- Giga Drain / Seed Flare
- Earth Power / Synthesis

Weird? Yes. Slow? Yes. Amazing? We'll see, but I think it should work pretty well. This spread and moveset allow Shaymin to set up a Sub on both Registeel and Bronzong, and Bronzong's Gyro Ball and Registeel's Seismic Toss and Iron Head all fail to break the Sub. Not only that, but they can't status you and force you to switch out and activate Natural Cure thanks to Sub. I'm going to try pairing this with Specs Meloetta, which lures in Bronzong and Registeel and can pivot into Shaymin with U-Turn. Then you just need to slap a Slurpuff on the team, and it's gg once two of Slurpuff's biggest counters have been lured in and dealt with/severely weakened by both Specs Meloetta and SubSeed Shaymin. Should be a fun few days. Happy laddering!
I have a couple of issues with this EV spread and it's what led me to post this set with a max SpA / max Spe spread in my own post earlier. First of all, Shaymin is pretty damn weak without investment and / or Seed Flare (which is not great on a defensive set due to ass PP) The bigger issue is that Shaymin isn't able to outspeed some major offensive threats that it can still pressure without a boosting item (Hitmonlee, Venusaur, Medicham) Another issue is that SubSeed Shaymin NEEDS Air Slash or Psychic to be able to pressure the Grass-types that otherwise completely wall such a set. For example, this set straight up loses to Virizion despite defensive investment because you can't hit it for any damage. Venusuar generally doesn't care about this Shaymin set either since you lack Air Slash and Psychic as well as any offensive investment to give Earth Power a little bite behind it. Being able to combat Registeel is really nice, but I really don't feel like it's worth giving up Shaymin's offensive potential, especially when Registeel can just switch out and is used with Venusaur on a somewhat regular basis in my experience, which this set can't do much with at all.
 
Gogoat_XY.gif
Gogoat @ Leftovers
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Bulk Up
- Milk Drink
- Horn Leech
- Return

No memes, Gogoat having the immunity to Shaymin's Seed Flare is nice allowing it to wall it without having it's SPDEF dropped. Gogoat can set up on Shaymin w/ Bulk up able to take a random Air Slash with minimum damage! Return as it's coverage move being able to hit Golbat, Virzion, and Fletchinder. Reliable recovery w/ Milk Drink.

252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Air Slash vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gogoat: 146-174 (32.4 - 38.6%) -- 3.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery 252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gogoat: 117-140 (26 - 31.1%) -- 7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

 
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DW GUYS YOUR LORD IS BACK ONCE AGAIN TO SAVE YOU FROM THE NEW WAVE OF CANCER KNOWN AS SHAYMIN AND SLURPUFF
I have already posted about Honedge, which slays Slurpuff. Which means, it's time to tackle the other major threat: Shaymin. shoutouts for whoever thought of this in the RU room, idk whether you were joking or not but this Pokemon is godlike.


Miltank @ Leftovers
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Heal Bell
- Milk Drink
- Body Slam / Seismic Toss
- Toxic / Earthquake

Miltank absolutely obliterates Shaymin, tanking all of its moves with ease. Sap Sipper allows Miltank to gain +1 Attack every time it absorbs a Grass-type move, meaning Seed Flaring this behemoth only makes it even more threatening. Miltank also has the added benefit of being a cleric, making it a great partner for Pokemon such as Alomomola and Registeel, which are susceptible to status. Toxic allows Miltank to be threatening to walls such as Alomomola and also helps wear down the opposition. Miltank can also run more Speed EVs if necessary; 108 Speed EVs allow Miltank to outrun Max Speed Timid Magneton, which it can then OHKO with Earthquake (which is an option over Toxic). Earthquake also hits Pokemon such as Mega Camerupt and Registeel, and also allows Miltank to better take advantage of a potential Sap Sipper-boost. However, Toxic is a better option for most teams. Miltank is also good for switching in to other threats such as Venusaur, as Body Slam allows it to neuter offensive variants. Seismic Toss is an option over Body Slam for more consistent damage against the metagame, but Body Slam's paralysis chance makes it the superior option in most cases. Miltank can also run a more physically defensive spread if its team mandates it, as it still will not be 2HKO'd by any of Shaymin's attacks. The aforementioned spread is more reliable at beating that monstrosity, however.

#REGIMOLA #EDGETANK
 
People are claiming how Slurpuff is able to kill the entire tier, when technically Linoone, a C- rank mon, is able to do a similar job at the same condition (this mon runs Shadow Claw and Seed Bomb i think, + Extreme Speed beats priority mons like Sneasel or Fletch). The difference between them is, or should be, on which mons they are able to set up on, which aren't that much on paper. On bulky waters you risk the Scald burn, fighting types which are not medicham click knock off, bulky Drudiggon can Glare for free (I guess all of them should be running Gunk Shot right now), Spiritomb click wisp or even Foul Play maybe leaving defensive Granbull, Diancie, Gurdurr, Hitmontop, Malamar, Togetic and, Scarf Cham? which are quite a few. I feel this will be quickbanned but my experience from now is that it's broken because of the pairing with some trapping mons, which RU has a lot, than Slurpuff itself.

Btw wanna share my dank lure

0 Atk Diancie Gyro Ball (131 BP) vs. 76 HP / 0 Def Slurpuff: 214-252 (66 - 77.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+6 252 Atk Slurpuff Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 164+ Def Diancie: 243-286 (79.9 - 94%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

At first I made the calc with 228 speed jolly, the UU spread, which would outspeed Scarf Jolly Virizion. It's a tiny roll but should be enough to leave Slurpuff to priority damage in any case, and Slur wouldn't be able to click Drain Punch

As for Shaymin, this dude needs a ban. Seed Flare Psychic and HP Fire hits everything on the tier besides maybe Registeel and even then it could stall Toss from it with Rest. If anyone has a good actual defensive check to this mouse carpet, that would be awesome.

Thanks for reading ^^
 
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