Murkrow (Analysis)

[kniteowl]

One question that may seem a little off topic, how does the evolution stone work?

If it only affect Def & Sp-def, wouldn't max EVs Def and and Special Def make Murkrow bulkier as the evolution stone boost it's defenses further?

I'm just asking Why EV HP when you can make your murkrow bulkier?

has anyone tried Parashuffler Dragonite?

Parashuffler
move 1:Dragon Tail
move 2: Thunder Wave
move 3: Roost
move 4: Susbtitute / Waterfall / Dragon Claw
ability: Multi Scale
item: Leftovers
nature: Careful
EVs: 244 HP/252 Spdef/12 Spe OR 244 HP/88 SpDef/176 Spe

I was thinking if any other pokemon could pull this off and Murkrow came to my attention.

This is the possible set I came up with.

[SET]
name: Parashuffler
move1: Thunderwave
move2: Whirlwind
move3: Roost
move4: FeatherDance / Substitute
item: Evolution Stone
nature: Sassy
ability: Mischievous Heart
evs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
ivs: 0 Atk / 1 Spe

max def and Sp-def allows you to maximise evolution stone effects (I assume)

Whirlwinds's Priority with now Zero instead of Minus one(-1) [I Assume] and with murkrow natural base 91 speed it allows whirlwind to hit 1st on many slower pokemon such as nattorei, roobushin... etc,

BUT after you paralyze Whirlwind will always hit first (BTW I'm assuming Whirlwind priority is normal minus one and mischevious heart changes it to zero)

Featherdance is extremely nice as it allows you to survive and roost off super effective attacks while it allows you the time to paralyze and an opponent and force a switch with whirlwind.

You may prefer Substitute over Featherdance if you don't like being status (eg poison, burn, sleep etc) but makes it harder to take physical hits.

Taunt obviously stops this set.

Dragonite probably does this better then Murkrow in OU with superior typing, bulk and leftover (I personally have not compared the bulk so this is also another assumption)

Although murkrow's advantages come with feather dance allowing it to take physical hits and whirlwinds which isn't walled by a substitute like Dragonite's set.

THis set probably requires more testing as I've had limited usage with it, I've only used in on Pokemon Online's server in the UU Tier. Athough I can see this set being sucessful in OU if used correctly.

Obviously this set works well with Spikes and Stealth Rock Support.

That's all I can think of...

 

[Thorhammer]

One question that may seem a little off topic, how does the evolution stone work?

If it only affect Def & Sp-def, wouldn't max EVs Def and and Special Def make Murkrow bulkier as the evolution stone boost it's defenses further?

I'm just asking Why EV HP when you can make your murkrow bulkier?

has anyone tried Parashuffler Dragonite?


I was thinking if any other pokemon could pull this off and Murkrow came to my attention.

This is the possible set I came up with.

[SET]
name: Parashuffler
move1: Thunderwave
move2: Whirlwind
move3: Roost
move4: FeatherDance / Substitute
item: Evolution Stone
nature: Sassy
ability: Mischievous Heart
evs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
ivs: 0 Atk / 1 Spe

max def and Sp-def allows you to maximise evolution stone effects (I assume)

Whirlwinds's Priority with now Zero instead of Minus one(-1) [I Assume] and with murkrow natural base 91 speed it allows whirlwind to hit 1st on many slower pokemon such as nattorei, roobushin... etc,

BUT after you paralyze Whirlwind will always hit first (BTW I'm assuming Whirlwind priority is normal minus one and mischevious heart changes it to zero)

Featherdance is extremely nice as it allows you to survive and roost off super effective attacks while it allows you the time to paralyze and an opponent and force a switch with whirlwind.

You may prefer Substitute over Featherdance if you don't like being status (eg poison, burn, sleep etc) but makes it harder to take physical hits.

Taunt obviously stops this set.

Dragonite probably does this better then Murkrow in OU with superior typing, bulk and leftover (I personally have not compared the bulk so this is also another assumption)

Although murkrow's advantages come with feather dance allowing it to take physical hits and whirlwinds which isn't walled by a substitute like Dragonite's set.

THis set probably requires more testing as I've had limited usage with it, I've only used in on Pokemon Online's server in the UU Tier. Athough I can see this set being sucessful in OU if used correctly.

Obviously this set works well with Spikes and Stealth Rock Support.

That's all I can think of...

Because of how defenses work in Pokemon, the Evolution Stone always reduces the damage taken from attacks by 1/3. It doesn't matter where the EVs are as long as they result in what would be the best defenses otherwise, which means putting them in HP.

Also, Whirlwind has -6 priority, not -1, so even with Mischievous Heart, its priority is only -5. Not exactly helpful.

Also, reducing Murkrow's speed is completely counterproductive. What are you even trying to do?

 

[Darkamber8828]

Take less from Gyro Ball?

 

[His Eminence Lord Poppington II]

Just a note, there's a special equivalent of confuse-ray now, I can't be bothered to go check what it's called, but I'm sure of its existence; for this reason you should just set the sp.a IV as 0, I mean, there's no reason not to.

Also, whirlwind has -1 priority, not -6 (unless it was changed in the transition from fourth to fifth). I'm not sure of the exact mechanics with mischievous heart, but theoretically it should push it up to 0 priority, probably doesn't though, to prevent choice scarf abuse. Also it's not like Murkrow has any room on his sets to run it anyway.

 

[am zane ok.]

Just a note, there's a special equivalent of confuse-ray now, I can't be bothered to go check what it's called, but I'm sure of its existence; for this reason you should just set the sp.a IV as 0, I mean, there's no reason not to.

Also, whirlwind has -1 priority, not -6 (unless it was changed in the transition from fourth to fifth). I'm not sure of the exact mechanics with mischievous heart, but theoretically it should push it up to 0 priority, probably doesn't though, to prevent choice scarf abuse. Also it's not like Murkrow has any room on his sets to run it anyway.

I believe both of these points are invalid. Not to be a jerk or anything.

Confusion damage is actually calculated from base level, attack stat, and defense stat. Special attack has nothing to do with it.

And actually, Whirlwind DOES have -6 priority. However, due to Mischievous Heart, it is, to my knowledge, -5. Also, Whirlwind and other PHazing moves are to take effect AFTER any attacking moves (besides slower Overhead Throws and Dragon Tails). That's just how the move works, to maintain a balance and prevent overpowering. Both serebii.net and bulbapedia agree with this information. I believe the Smogon research thread states so, as well.

I'll state again. I'm not trying to troll. In fact, I'm trying to be informative, if anything!

-Zane

 

[Banryu]

I'm thinking maybe min Speed on Murkrow isn't such a good idea... Now hear me out here, I read Bologo's reasoning on the first page for that, and that's all well and good, but with 0 Spe IVs, Murkrow gets raped by fellow faster MH Taunters, does it not?

...of course, if it does anyway, then this argument is pretty much nil.
...it's probably safe to assume that they outspeed regardless. Nvm then.

 

[am zane ok.]

I'm thinking maybe min Speed on Murkrow isn't such a good idea... Now hear me out here, I read Bologo's reasoning on the first page for that, and that's all well and good, but with 0 Spe IVs, Murkrow gets raped by fellow faster MH Taunters, does it not?

...of course, if it does anyway, then this argument is pretty much nil.
...it's probably safe to assume that they outspeed regardless. Nvm then.

The other Mischievous Heart users are all faster than Murkrow, anyways. The only one you'll be faster than with more speed is Erufuun (I think), as it tends to run minimum speed with a speed hindering nature.

Not to mention, it's extremely unimportant. Mischievous Heart users aren't all that common outside of Borutorosu.

-Zane

 

[vitch_08]

The other Mischievous Heart users are all faster than Murkrow, anyways. The only one you'll be faster than with more speed is Erufuun (I think), as it tends to run minimum speed with a speed hindering nature.

Not to mention, it's extremely unimportant. Mischievous Heart users aren't all that common outside of Borutorosu.

-Zane

uhmmm there's actually four pokemon whose faster MH users than murkrow namely thundurus, tornados, liepard and erufun. Thundurus and erufuun are the common MH users and the other two is not even used that much. I do not get why they would chose a -speed nature when they could simply run a -attack or -spatt nature, when they barely have attacking moves (excluding thundurus). Murkrow actually is the fifth fastest mh user and the rest are slower. Therefore he needs all the speed IVs he could get, so that he does not get screwed by fellow mh users.
..and also would it be good if murkrow is paired with a cloud nine pokemon so he doesnt get damaged by hail or ss while stalling them out?

 

[Thorhammer]

uhmmm there's actually four pokemon whose faster MH users than murkrow namely thundurus, tornados, liepard and erufun. Thundurus and erufuun are the common MH users and the other two is not even used that much. I do not get why they would chose a -speed nature when they could simply run a -attack or -spatt nature, when they barely have attacking moves (excluding thundurus). Murkrow actually is the fifth fastest mh user and the rest are slower. Therefore he needs all the speed IVs he could get, so that he does not get screwed by fellow mh users.
..and also would it be good if murkrow is paired with a cloud nine pokemon so he doesnt get damaged by hail or ss while stalling them out?

That's the point. Tornadus and Thundurus are faster than Murkrow, so he won't fall below their Speed by giving up EVs, but at the same time, they both run so much Speed that they'll always outspeed Murkrow no matter what he does.

Don't know about Liepard, but I assume he also generally makes use of his Speed. So Murkrow won't outspeed him with any amount of IVs, either. There's just nothing Murkrow could actually accomplish by being faster.

 

[Setsuna]

Same as with Donphan. Murkrow has been added to the nonviable list of Pokemon for OU.