Resource Monotype SM Viability Rankings

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roman

Banned deucer.
Hopefully I don't completely screw these up




Infernape: A=>S (Fire)

With the introduction of Nihilego, Fire is at a near autoloss against Scarf sets without Infernape. Infernape is without a doubt Fire's best form of speed control, proving to be a valuable asset in matchups such as Poison, Rock, Dark, Normal, and even Water. Its solid coverage allows it to check threats such as +1 Gyarados, +1 Salamence, +1 Mega Charizard X, Terrakion, Nihilego, Dragonite, Greninja, Mega Aerodactyl, and Mega Sharpedo. Additionally, with U-turn, it can form a VoltTurn core with Rotom-Heat to generate momentum, which for an offensive type like Fire is extremely important. Even outside of Scarf sets, it also pulls off Banded wallbreaking sets effectively. It's still capable of checking Pokemon like Greninja and Mega Sharpedo, but Banded sets give Fire more of a chance against the monster that is Double Dance Terrakion, picking it off after a little bit of prior chip damage. With its amazing speed control, pivoting, and checking many monstrous threats for the type, Infernape is a solid pick on just about any Fire team and is definitely deserving of S rank.

Here are some of Infernape's best sets right now:
Infernape @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Close Combat
- U-turn
- Stone Edge

Infernape @ Choice Band
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Close Combat
- Mach Punch
- Stone Edge / U-turn





Diggersby: A=>S (Normal)

Diggersby is without a doubt one of Normal's best wallbreakers and is one of the main reasons Normal excels in top-tier matchups like Electric and Poison, as well as breaking through Steel with Earthquake+Fire Punch. Additionally, it also has access to Knock Off, which greatly helps in Normal mirrors when dealing with the Eviolite core of Chansey+Porygon2, and U-turn, which provides a great source of momentum to both Offensive and Balanced Normal teams. Despite its rather lacking Speed tier, it can still serve as an effective revenge killer with Quick Attack, being able to pick off Alolan Raichu a lot of the time after Stealth Rock and having a chance to remove Azumarill after it goes for a Z-Belly Drum. Diggersby is simply an amazing pick on Normal teams of any archetype, and is more than worthy of S rank on Normal.

Here's what I think is Diggersby's best set right now:
Diggersby @ Choice Band
Ability: Huge Power
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Frustration
- Quick Attack
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch / Knock Off / U-turn
cant see either of these mons getting s.

nape
while nape is undoubtedly one of fires strongest physical attackers other mons like zardx and tini rival it. nape isnt the only nihi check as tran can beat it as well. also 104 offensive stats can be really lackluster at times especially since its forced to run scarf to even check nihi. thats p much all I have to say abt this.

diggs
the two matchups u listed, elec and poison, normal already wins. sure it smacks like everything but psn doesn't like stuff like workup pidg or Mel (once muk is dead) and you already wall like everything on elec. even though its the type's premier wallbreaker some teams can afford bypassing it for other mons such as ditto ( and the upcoming m lop). normal also wins vs steel if p2 is hp fire and there's no Bish not to mention that elec pz and discharge /hpfire/download p2 both have a field day with steel. ya it can bust through once tran is dead but it's not the worst mu ever. idk why u brought up alolachu since it does like 10 to chansey :s if you bring up types that normal really struggles with that diggs really helps with that would give a whole lot more credibility to ur argument

btw uturn is bad on non scarf because then you can't run fpunch which is dumb
 

Harpp

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Buzzwole: A=>B (Both Bug and Fighting)

Buzzwole's roles have started to fade away with the release of Mega Heracross. As a Banded wallbreaker, while it will be dealing more damage than unboosted Mega Heracross, it doesn't have a spammable Fighting STAB, diminishing its wallbreaking potential quite a bit. It also fails to break certain defensive cores that Mega Heracross can tear through with the appropriate coverage, such as Swampert+Mantine+Toxapex on Balanced Water, Hippowdon+Gastrodon on Ground, and Rotom-Wash+Zapdos on Electric. As a Choice Scarfer, regular Heracross generally performs the job better due to having more spammable Fighting STAB to take advantage of Moxie better than Buzzwole takes advantage of Beast Boost. It also has a more powerful Bug STAB, which helps Fighting teams more against the problematic Psychic matchup, and can outspeed Choice Scarf Togekiss(who isn't affected by the Sticky Web that Bug puts up), and Mega Alakazam without the need of Sticky Web. While Buzzwole still has its great natural physical bulk and has decent coverage in Ice Punch to aid in the Ground and Dragon matchups, it sadly doesn't measure up to Heracross or Mega Heracross, and should be dropped to B rank on both its types.


Infernape: A=>S (Fire)

With the introduction of Nihilego, Fire is at a near autoloss against Scarf sets without Infernape. Infernape is without a doubt Fire's best form of speed control, proving to be a valuable asset in matchups such as Poison, Rock, Dark, Normal, and even Water. Its solid coverage allows it to check threats such as +1 Gyarados, +1 Salamence, +1 Mega Charizard X, Terrakion, Nihilego, Dragonite, Greninja, Mega Aerodactyl, and Mega Sharpedo. Additionally, with U-turn, it can form a VoltTurn core with Rotom-Heat to generate momentum, which for an offensive type like Fire is extremely important. Even outside of Scarf sets, it also pulls off Banded wallbreaking sets effectively. It's still capable of checking Pokemon like Greninja and Mega Sharpedo, but Banded sets give Fire more of a chance against the monster that is Double Dance Terrakion, picking it off after a little bit of prior chip damage. With its amazing speed control, pivoting, and checking many monstrous threats for the type, Infernape is a solid pick on just about any Fire team and is definitely deserving of S rank.

Here are some of Infernape's best sets right now:
Infernape @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Close Combat
- U-turn
- Earthquake / Stone Edge

Infernape @ Choice Band
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Close Combat
- Mach Punch
- Stone Edge / U-turn




Cradily: A=>S (Grass)

I made this nomination much earlier, so I'll probably be re-iterating a lot of the points I made then. Cradily forms an essential part of Grass's defensive core due to being the type's best Stealth Rocker, which is invaluable for Grass teams when facing unfavorable matchups like Fire, Flying, Bug, Poison, Ice, and Psychic. Its great bulk and access to Recover makes it an incredible Fire and Flying sponge, making it THE single greatest defensive check for Volcarona and Mega Charizard Y, which is undescribably essential to Grass. With the roles it offers being so important for Grass teams, and being a large part of Grass's defensive core, Cradily is fully deserving of S rank on Grass.

Here's what I think is Cradily's best set right now:
Cradily @ Leftovers
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Rock Slide
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Recover




Porygon-Z: S=>A

While Porygon-Z is undoubtedly an amazing wincon for Normal teams, it doesn't quite measure up to the other S ranks on Normal, with Chansey being one of the greatest special walls in the metagame and the type's best Stealth Rocker, Porygon2 being the type's best check to Mega Scizor as well as being the best physical wall for Normal, and Staraptor not only being Normal's best Fighting switch in, but the type's best Defogger and Scarfer on offensive Normal teams. Porygon-Z's Speed, while not completely terrible, is only average at best, leaving it outsped by a large portion of Scarfers in the metagame such as Landorus-Therian, Victini, Infernape, Terrakion, Hydreigon Latios, and Gengar, while also having some average bulk even after the increase from Z-Conversion. This usually results in it either getting taken out or being forced out, losing the boosts from Z-Conversion and not being able to set up ever again. Its susceptibility to being revenge killed is mostly dependent on what type it transforms into. If it becomes a Ghost, it'll just be left more susceptible to Scarf Gengar and Hydreigon, as well as Sucker Punch users like Bisharp and Pursuit trappers like Alolan Muk and Tyranitar. If it turns into an Electric type, it's left open to Scarf Landorus-Therian and Garchomp, as well as Excadrill in sand and Mega Swampert in rain. I feel as though Porygon-Z, while being an incredible wincon, doesn't quite offer enough compared to the other S ranks and is more suitable in A rank.



Diggersby: A=>S (Normal)

Diggersby is without a doubt one of Normal's best wallbreakers and is one of the main reasons Normal excels in top-tier matchups like Electric and Poison, as well as breaking through Steel with Earthquake+Fire Punch. Additionally, it also has access to Knock Off, which greatly helps in Normal mirrors when dealing with the Eviolite core of Chansey+Porygon2, and U-turn, which provides a great source of momentum to both Offensive and Balanced Normal teams. Despite its rather lacking Speed tier, it can still serve as an effective revenge killer with Quick Attack, being able to pick off Alolan Raichu a lot of the time after Stealth Rock and having a chance to remove Azumarill after it goes for a Z-Belly Drum. Diggersby is simply an amazing pick on Normal teams of any archetype, and is more than worthy of S rank on Normal.

Here's what I think is Diggersby's best set right now:
Diggersby @ Choice Band
Ability: Huge Power
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Frustration
- Quick Attack
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch / Knock Off / U-turn




Shuckle: A=>S (Rock)

Shuckle is easily Rock's best hazard setter and speed control option with Sticky Web. With this Sticky Web support, it provides Rock's wallbreakers/sweepers like Terrakion, Tyranitar, Nihilego, Omastar, and Mega Aerodactyl a much better shot against problematic matchups such as Steel, Bug, Ground, Fairy, and especially Fighting. In addition to this, Shuckle's great defenses and Grass and Fighting neutralities let it switch into Pokemon like Breloom and Mega Venusaur rather easily. With access to Knock Off, although Rock doesn't have many issues with Normal's Eviolite core, it's still great for removing Choice Scarves from threats like Terrakion, Keldeo, and Heracross. Encore is simply amazing utility for Rock teams, not only leaving setup sweepers exposed, but also giving Shuckle an easier time setting up with Sticky Web and Stealth Rock. With the amazing utility Shuckle provides, it solidifies itself as a fantastic option for just about any Rock team and is definitely deserving of S rank on Rock.

Here's what I think is Shuckle's best set right now:
Shuckle @ Mental Herb
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Sticky Web
- Knock Off
- Encore
I don't agree with some of your nominations,namely Infernape and diggersby and I will state why those 2 Pokemon which you nominated for S rank should stay A rank:
Pokemon on S rank: Define the type and heavily influence the metagame.
Pokemon on A rank: Fill important roles on a monotype team,but do not influence the type as much as S ranks.
My opinion is based on the above definition of S and A rank.
1.Infernape: I agree infernape is a good addition to a mono fire team since it checks a good number of threats for fire such as nihilego,terrakion,charizard mega X etc. However Pokemon with S rank "Define the type and heavily influence the metagame." In case of infernape I don't see it defining the type/influencing the metagame. It fills an important role which is a revenge killer and a speed control with a scarf set and hence A rank( fills important roles on a monotype team but do not influence the type as much as S ranks) is more fitting to infernape. We can compare infernape with other S rank Pokemon such as Mega charizard x/y which are quintessential to a mono fire team as mega charizard is a fearsome wallbreaker that has influenced the metagame to run checks to charizard y,charizard X on the other hand is a threatening sweeper and is on a similar boat with charizard Y in case of influencing the metagamd and defining the type.
The main reason why infernape should stay A rank is because it fills an important role which is a speed control and a check to threats to fire,it does not define fire type in monotype metagame and is not influential as compared to other S rank Pokemon. Also your best set for infernape,specifically set #1 should have blaze as an ability over iron fist since there is no punching moves on the scarf set and blaze may come handy when infernape is on low health as it will power up flare blitz.
2.Diggersby: I agree with Kennyth on his say on your diggersby nomination. Just like my thoughts on your infernape nomination,diggersby here once again fills an important role which is a powerful wall breaker.how does it influence the metagame as compared to chansey or porygon2? The other S rank Pokemon on normal have heavily influenced the metagame,lets compare:
Chansey: It has influenced the metagame since it has ability to check a plethora of special threats for normal teams at the same time providing utility support such as stealth rock,toxic and status absorber. Other types run Pokemon that can break through/cripple chansey such as latios with psychock,Pokemon with trick such as scarf gardevoir. Ground runs dugtrio so that landorus-I can have easier time vs normal etc.
Porygon2: It has same case as chansey ,it blanket checks a wide range of physical threats for normal teams and has heavily influenced the metagame to run checks to break through porygon2.
The match ups you mentioned in your post where diggersby excels according to you,is something normal already takes pretty good care of. I don't see diggersby defining the type as much as other S ranked Pokemon.
I'm of same opinion on your shuckle nomination for S rank.
 
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I don't agree with some of your nominations,namely Infernape and diggersby and I will state why those 2 Pokemon which you nominated for S rank should stay A rank:
Pokemon on S rank: Define the type and heavily influence the metagame.
Pokemon on A rank: Fill important roles on a monotype team,but do not influence the type as much as S ranks.
My opinion is based on the above definition of S and A rank.
1.Infernape: I agree infernape is a good addition to a mono fire team since it checks a good number of threats for fire such as nihilego,terrakion,charizard mega X etc. However Pokemon with S rank "Define the type and heavily influence the metagame." In case of infernape I don't see it defining the type/influencing the metagame. It fills an important role which is a revenge killer and a speed control with a scarf set and hence A rank( fills important roles on a monotype team but do not influence the type as much as S ranks) is more fitting to infernape. We can compare infernape with other S rank Pokemon such as Mega charizard x/y which are quintessential to a mono fire team as mega charizard is a fearsome wallbreaker that has influenced the metagame to run checks to charizard y,charizard X on the other hand is a threatening sweeper and is on a similar boat with charizard Y in case of influencing the metagamd and defining the type.
The main reason why infernape should stay A rank is because it fills an important role which is a speed control and a check to threats to fire,it does not define fire type in monotype metagame and is not influential as compared to other S rank Pokemon. Also your best set for infernape,specifically set #1 should have blaze as an ability over iron fist since there is no punching moves on the scarf set and blaze may come handy when infernape is on low health as it will power up flare blitz.
2.Diggersby: I agree with Kennyth on his say on your diggersby nomination. Just like my thoughts on your infernape nomination,diggersby here once again fills an important role which is a powerful wall breaker.how does it influence the metagame as compared to chansey or porygon2? The other S rank Pokemon on normal have heavily influenced the metagame,lets compare:
Chansey: It has influenced the metagame since it has ability to check a plethora of special threats for normal teams at the same time providing utility support such as stealth rock,toxic and status absorber. Other types run Pokemon that can break through/cripple chansey such as latios with psychock,Pokemon with trick such as scarf gardevoir. Ground runs dugtrio so that landorus-I can have easier time vs normal etc.
Porygon2: It has same case as chansey ,it blanket checks a wide range of physical threats for normal teams and has heavily influenced the metagame to run checks to break through porygon2.
The match ups you mentioned in your post where diggersby excels according to you,is something normal already takes pretty good care of. I don't see diggersby defining the type as much as other S ranked Pokemon.
I'm of same opinion on your shuckle nomination for S rank.

Yeah, for a second I forgot that Close Combat wasn't a fist move. I probably should have brought up Fire, which Normal actually struggles with, as an example of something that Diggersby helps with. I didn't really factor in what would happen to its viability when Mega Lopunny shows up later this month, similarly to my previous nomination of Seismitoad for A rank on Water before Mega Swampert came out. As for Infernape, I suppose it still isn't as influential as Torkoal and the Mega Charizards, and while it is definitely Fire's best form of speed control with a great movepool that also is a great form of momentum, A rank may be more appropriate. Thanks for your thoughts.
 

Havens

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Mega Tyranitar: ??? -> A (Rock)

Mega Tyranitar, I feel, is a diamond in the rough for Rock. While sporting such incredible bulk; 100 HP /150 Def/ 120 SpDef (not including Sand boosts) and Physical Attack that parallel and even beat Pokemon like Mega Metagross and Mega Scizor to an extent, make it a very potent and powerful wallbreaker that is capable of running many moves. From Stone Edge, the Elemental Punches, Crunch, Earthquake, Outrage, Superpower, and many other moves, Tyranitar can be very unpredictable offensively to its vast offensive movepool. You could run DD with 3 attacks, act as a Pursuit Trapper, or even could be a bulkier version of what it does best as a defensive Stealth Rocker. On that note, it could be argued that Tyranitar fares better as a bulky Stealth Rocker at base forme, but being on a Rock team, there are better, bulkier options that guarantee such hazards and more, such as Mental Herb Shuckle, Cradily, and Diancie. It could also be argued that Mega Aerodactyl provides better Offensive Pressure. While that may be true because of the combination of its Speed and Attack stats, it's set is fairly predictable in comparison to TTar, for it usually carrying Stone Edge, Ice Fang, and the other two moves are usually a toss up of EQ/Hone Claws/Aqua Tail and whatnot. What really holds this mon from being one of the biggest threats of the tier would be its subpar Speed stat and susceptibility to many of the common types in the tier, as well as many weaknesses it has including Steel, Fairy, Grass, Fighting, Ground, Water and Bug, though some types are more common than others. However, most of its weaknesses usually can be dealt with or at the very least, checked by its other teammates; most notably Terrakion for its Steel Weakness, Nihilego for its Fairy Weakness (bar Klefki and Magearna), and Cradily for Dealing with it's Water weakness. I feel as if the unexplored options with this mon paired with new mons and mechanics this generation make for a very interesting development of Rock type teams in general because of this, and personally feel that for now that it deserves A rank.

??? -> C (Dark)

Mega Tyranitar feels pressured to be run on Dark teams, mainly because of the better offensive presence of Mega Sharpedo and Houndoom, and the Defensive Wall and Status/Hazard controller that is Mega Sableye. While it isn't completely useless, Specially Defensive Base Tyranitar works better as a Stealth Rock setter, and could effectively set up hazards with less worry about the weaknesses because of Mega Sableye and Mandibuzz to deal with its crippling Fighting weakness, as well as HP Fire Greninja, Bisharp, and Muk to deal with the likes of it's Steel, Fairy, and Ground weakness. It could still be used on a Dark team for the reasons I listed for Rock, sure, but I personally don't believe it should be at the risk of an arguably better mega such as Sableye, and strongly feel that it should be C rank.
 
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Mega Tyranitar: ??? -> A (Rock)

Mega Tyranitar, I feel, is a diamond in the rough for Rock. While sporting such incredible bulk; 100 HP /150 Def/ 120 SpDef (not including Sand boosts) and Physical Attack that parallel and even beat Pokemon like Mega Metagross and Mega Scizor to an extent, make it a very potent and powerful wallbreaker that is capable of running many moves. From Stone Edge, the Elemental Punches, Crunch, Earthquake, Outrage, Superpower, and many other moves, Tyranitar can be very unpredictable offensively to its vast offensive movepool. You could run DD with 3 attacks, act as a Pursuit Trapper, or even could be a bulkier version of what it does best as a defensive Stealth Rocker. On that note, it could be argued that Tyranitar fares better as a bulky Stealth Rocker at base forme, but being on a Rock team, there are better, bulkier options that guarantee such hazards and more, such as Mental Herb Shuckle, Cradily, and Diancie. It could also be argued that Mega Aerodactyl provides better Offensive Pressure. While that may be true because of the combination of its Speed and Attack stats, it's set is fairly predictable in comparison to TTar, for it usually carrying Stone Edge, Ice Fang, and the other two moves are usually a toss up of EQ/Hone Claws/Aqua Tail and whatnot. What really holds this mon from being one of the biggest threats of the tier would be its subpar Speed stat and susceptibility to many of the common types in the tier, as well as many weaknesses it has including Steel, Fairy, Grass, Fighting, Ground, Water and Bug, though some types are more common than others. However, most of its weaknesses usually can be dealt with or at the very least, checked by its other teammates; most notably Terrakion for its Steel Weakness, Nihilego for its Fairy Weakness (bar Klefki and Magearna), and Cradily for Dealing with it's Water weakness. I feel as if the unexplored options with this mon paired with new mons and mechanics this generation make for a very interesting development of Rock type teams in general because of this, and personally feel that for now that it deserves A rank.

??? -> C (Dark)

Mega Tyranitar feels pressured to be run on Dark teams, mainly because of the better offensive presence of Mega Sharpedo and Houndoom, and the Defensive Wall and Status/Hazard controller that is Mega Sableye. While it isn't completely useless, Specially Defensive Base Tyranitar works better as a Stealth Rock setter, and could effectively set up hazards with less worry about the weaknesses because of Mega Sableye and Mandibuzz to deal with its crippling Fighting weakness, as well as HP Fire Greninja, Bisharp, and Muk to deal with the likes of it's Steel, Fairy, and Ground weakness. It could still be used on a Dark team for the reasons I listed for Rock, sure, but I personally don't believe it should be at the risk of an arguably better mega such as Sableye, and strongly feel that it should be C rank.

I disagree with a lot of the points you made about Mega Tyranitar on Rock. To make this easier, I'll break down specific points:

"From Stone Edge, the Elemental Punches, Crunch, Earthquake, Outrage, Superpower, and many other moves, Tyranitar can be very unpredictable offensively to its vast offensive movepool."

Thunder Punch will more than likely not be a prevalent move on it, since it doesn't hit as many important threats that its other coverage wouldn't handle already. Nihilego and Cradily can already put in major work against Water teams, so why would you want Thunder Punch on it? Outrage is even worse coverage, since Stone Edge and Ice Punch will already be hitting every relevant Pokemon on Dragon teams. It just feels like a waste bringing it up.

"You could run DD with 3 attacks, act as a Pursuit Trapper, or even could be a bulkier version of what it does best as a defensive Stealth Rocker."

Sorry, but what Tyranitar "does best" isn't being a bulky Stealth Rocker. Its base form is only used as an Assault Vested tank that can Pursuit trap or a Choice Banded wallbreaker, and it's extremely outclassed as a Stealth Rocker by Shuckle, who offers far more utility.

"On that note, it could be argued that Tyranitar fares better as a bulky Stealth Rocker at base forme, but being on a Rock team, there are better, bulkier options that guarantee such hazards and more, such as Mental Herb Shuckle, Cradily, and Diancie."

You just said before that it "does best" as a defensive Stealth Rocker, and now you're admitting that there are better options available? Shuckle is already essential to Rock teams, so the other options for Stealth Rocking shouldn't be needed to begin with unless it's simply to open a moveslot for Shuckle. Cradily shouldn't ever be used as a Stealth Rocker, and all it would be doing is allowing Shuckle to run Toxic despite Cradily spreading the Toxic more effectively with its reliable sustain. Diancie is just largely irrelevant, so I can't really see why this was mentioned either. I'm beginning to question your experience with Rock teams.

"It could also be argued that Mega Aerodactyl provides better Offensive Pressure. While that may be true because of the combination of its Speed and Attack stats, it's set is fairly predictable in comparison to TTar, for it usually carrying Stone Edge, Ice Fang, and the other two moves are usually a toss up of EQ/Hone Claws/Aqua Tail and whatnot."

Now I'm REALLY starting to question your experience with Rock teams. Mega Aerodactyl is absolutely required to have Aerial Ace(or Wing Attack if you want more PP) because having that Flying STAB to aid in the Fighting, Grass, and Bug matchups is literally one of the main reasons to even use Mega Aerodactyl. And Fire Fang is way WAY more important coverage to have than Ice Fang, since while it is nice having something extra to hit Gliscor and Landorus-Therian, it keeps Mega Aerodactyl from becoming setup bait against one of Rock's largest threats in Mega Scizor. Hone Claws, while it serves as a semi-decent option in order to break Grass teams more effectively, it can only safely set up against Mega Venusaur, and you would have to bank on it not having Giga Drain, since 2 of them will put you within range of Breloom's Mach Punch and +1 Aerial Ace won't be OHKOing Mega Venu:

+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Aerodactyl-Mega Aerial Ace vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Venusaur-Mega: 248-294 (68.3 - 80.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

"However, most of its weaknesses usually can be dealt with or at the very least, checked by its other teammates; most notably Terrakion for its Steel Weakness, Nihilego for its Fairy Weakness (bar Klefki and Magearna), and Cradily for Dealing with it's Water weakness."

Nothing on Steel can comfortably switch into Mega Tyranitar after a Dragon Dance if it's carrying Fire Punch. And Mega Tyranitar can often set up safely against Heatran and have a large chance of OHKOing with +1 Stone Edge if it's Air Balloon:

+1 252+ Atk Tyranitar-Mega Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 306-360 (94.7 - 111.4%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

Even Scarf Excadrill will be outsped at +1 after Sticky Web has been set. While it'll still have its issues, such as not being able to OHKO TR Magearna with a +1 Fire Punch and offensive Mega Scizor revenge killing with Bullet Punch from around half, Terrakion doesn't exactly solve those problems, does it?

Regarding Fairy, even outside of Klefki, Belly Drum Azumarill will still be revenge killing Nihilego most of the time with an unboosted Aqua Jet after Stealth Rock, which isn't at all difficult for Fairy teams to put up against Rock.

I will agree with how Mega Tyranitar can often find difficulty setting up against balanced and SS Water.

Overall, Mega Tyranitar does have some desirable traits for Rock teams, but the multiple roles that regular Tyranitar can fill will diminish Mega Tyranitar quite a lot. Not to mention Mega Aerodactyl, who supports Rock teams much more in the lesser seen but far more difficult Fighting, Grass, and Bug matchups. Mega Tyranitar's niche use is more comparable to Alolan Golem, who, while being great at checking quite a few threats on Steel such as Skarmory, Celesteela, bulky Mega Scizor, and Scarf Excadrill locked into Iron Head, it's still not as effective as the other A ranks on Rock. For now, I think B rank is more appropriate. I do agree with your Dark nomination though.
 
Maybe this time I'll actually get this right :/



Alolan Marowak: A=>S (Ghost)

It can't be stressed how important Alolan Marowak is for Ghost this gen. I made this nomination earlier, so I'm probably gonna be re-iterating the points from that post. Not only is it the type's best Stealth Rocker, but it's also the type's best physical wallbreaker, capable of tearing through threats such as Toxapex, Magearna, and especially Alolan Muk. Defensively, with its wide amount of resistances along with Lightning Rod, it can switch into Magearna, Tapu Koko, and Zapdos, all of which Ghost teams usually do not appreciate switching into. Not only is Alolan Marowak an essential asset to balanced Ghost teams, but it's among the best abusers for Trick Room offensive Ghost teams, being able to run a more powerful Fire STAB in Flare Blitz thanks to the Rock Head ability, and having the decent bulk and resistances necessary to effectively set up Swords Dance, making short work of top tier types such as Fairy, Steel, and even Poison. Alolan Marowak's offensive and defensive utility makes it without a doubt a staple for Ghost teams and is fully deserving of S rank.

Here are Alolan Marowak's sets for both balanced and TR Ghost teams:
Balance
Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 48 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 204 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shadow Bone
- Fire Punch
- Bonemerang
- Stealth Rock

TR Offense
Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Shadow Bone
- Flare Blitz
- Bonemerang
- Swords Dance




Pelipper: B=>A (Water)

With the introduction of Mega Swampert in Gen 7, SS Water has gotten more prevalent, since the archetype now has a better Stealth Rocker and overall abuser. In contrast, Pelipper is easily the most important asset to SS Water teams. With perfect accuracy STAB Hurricanes, it can check threats such as Mega Venusaur and Tapu Bulu. With a Choice Scarf set, Pelipper can pull off quick U-turn pivots to generate momentum against opposing offensive types like Bug, Fighting, and Ground. While it can be argued that balanced Water is a more effective playstyle, if Mega Swampert is A rank because of how effective it is on SS Water, then Pelipper should also deserve this ranking because it's just as important for the success of SS Water.

Here's what I think is Pelipper's best set right now:
Pelipper @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Hurricane
- U-turn
- Defog




Nihilego: A=>S (Rock)

I am aware that Tyke made this nomination earlier in the thread, but I'm bringing it up again because I have yet to understand why it hasn't been risen to S rank yet. With the loss of Mega Diancie, Rock teams needed another powerful special sweeper/wallbreaker that wasn't Omastar, and Nihilego fills that role exceptionally. Its amazing special bulk, which is further boosted by the sand offered by Tyranitar, can allow it to easily switch into Scalds from passive Water-types like Mantine and Toxapex, which, unlike Cradily, Nihilego can actually beat thanks to Thunderbolt. Onto the topic of its amazing coverage, Tbolt, Grass Knot, and Hidden Power Ice are fantastic coverage moves that synergize with each other extremely well, with Tbolt+Grass Knot doing nicely against Water, Tbolt+Hidden Power Ice being able to break Flying, and Grass Knot+Hidden Power Ice doing quite a number to Ground once Excadrill and Mega Steelix are gone. Its amazing 103 speed tier puts it right above Garchomp and Landorus, which is undescribably important for the Ground matchup. Nihilego is definitely one of the most important Pokemon for Rock teams and is definitely deserving of S rank.

Here's what I think is its best set for Rock:
Nihilego @ Life Orb / Choice Specs
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Wave
- Thunderbolt
- Grass Knot
- Hidden Power [Ice]
 

mushamu

God jihyo
is a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Former Smogon Metagame Tournament Circuit Champion
Maybe this time I'll actually get this right :/



Alolan Marowak: A=>S (Ghost)

It can't be stressed how important Alolan Marowak is for Ghost this gen. I made this nomination earlier, so I'm probably gonna be re-iterating the points from that post. Not only is it the type's best Stealth Rocker, but it's also the type's best physical wallbreaker, capable of tearing through threats such as Toxapex, Magearna, and especially Alolan Muk. Defensively, with its wide amount of resistances along with Lightning Rod, it can switch into Magearna, Tapu Koko, and Zapdos, all of which Ghost teams usually do not appreciate switching into. Not only is Alolan Marowak an essential asset to balanced Ghost teams, but it's among the best abusers for Trick Room offensive Ghost teams, being able to run a more powerful Fire STAB in Flare Blitz thanks to the Rock Head ability, and having the decent bulk and resistances necessary to effectively set up Swords Dance, making short work of top tier types such as Fairy, Steel, and even Poison. Alolan Marowak's offensive and defensive utility makes it without a doubt a staple for Ghost teams and is fully deserving of S rank.

Here are Alolan Marowak's sets for both balanced and TR Ghost teams:
Balance
Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 48 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 204 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shadow Bone
- Fire Punch
- Bonemerang
- Stealth Rock

TR Offense
Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Shadow Bone
- Flare Blitz
- Bonemerang
- Swords Dance




Pelipper: B=>A (Water)

With the introduction of Mega Swampert in Gen 7, SS Water has gotten more prevalent, since the archetype now has a better Stealth Rocker and overall abuser. In contrast, Pelipper is easily the most important asset to SS Water teams. With perfect accuracy STAB Hurricanes, it can check threats such as Mega Venusaur and Tapu Bulu. With a Choice Scarf set, Pelipper can pull off quick U-turn pivots to generate momentum against opposing offensive types like Bug, Fighting, and Ground. While it can be argued that balanced Water is a more effective playstyle, if Mega Swampert is A rank because of how effective it is on SS Water, then Pelipper should also deserve this ranking because it's just as important for the success of SS Water.

Here's what I think is Pelipper's best set right now:
Pelipper @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Hurricane
- U-turn
- Defog




Nihilego: A=>S (Rock)

I am aware that Tyke made this nomination earlier in the thread, but I'm bringing it up again because I have yet to understand why it hasn't been risen to S rank yet. With the loss of Mega Diancie, Rock teams needed another powerful special sweeper/wallbreaker that wasn't Omastar, and Nihilego fills that role exceptionally. Its amazing special bulk, which is further boosted by the sand offered by Tyranitar, can allow it to easily switch into Scalds from passive Water-types like Mantine and Toxapex, which, unlike Cradily, Nihilego can actually beat thanks to Thunderbolt. Onto the topic of its amazing coverage, Tbolt, Grass Knot, and Hidden Power Ice are fantastic coverage moves that synergize with each other extremely well, with Tbolt+Grass Knot doing nicely against Water, Tbolt+Hidden Power Ice being able to break Flying, and Grass Knot+Hidden Power Ice doing quite a number to Ground once Excadrill and Mega Steelix are gone. Its amazing 103 speed tier puts it right above Garchomp and Landorus, which is undescribably important for the Ground matchup. Nihilego is definitely one of the most important Pokemon for Rock teams and is definitely deserving of S rank.

Here's what I think is its best set for Rock:
Nihilego @ Life Orb / Choice Specs
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Wave
- Thunderbolt
- Grass Knot
- Hidden Power [Ice]
In response to the marowak nomination: No. Marowak does not deserve S rank. It is not a complete necessity on Ghost teams, it fills certain roles. I've seen certain ghost teams function without marowak and they do fine.

Edit: and can you not make the same nomination twice? If it hasn't been accepted there must be a reason for it or it might get accepted in the next update. I really hate to see nominations repeated.
 
In response to the marowak nomination: No. Marowak does not deserve S rank. It is not a complete necessity on Ghost teams, it fills certain roles. I've seen certain ghost teams function without marowak and they do fine.

Edit: and can you not make the same nomination twice? If it hasn't been accepted there must be a reason for it or it might get accepted in the next update. I really hate to see nominations repeated.
There's nothing wrong with restating a nomination if you feel it deserves further discussion or are able to present more information to support your argument.

In this case, the initial nomination for Marowak-A to rise to S-rank on Ghost was posted by smub almost two months ago, in which time two batches of VR changes have come and gone. Given that, I don't see a problem with smub trying to get this nomination reconsidered, even if the arguments made in both posts are largely the same.
 
In response to the marowak nomination: No. Marowak does not deserve S rank. It is not a complete necessity on Ghost teams, it fills certain roles. I've seen certain ghost teams function without marowak and they do fine.

Edit: and can you not make the same nomination twice? If it hasn't been accepted there must be a reason for it or it might get accepted in the next update. I really hate to see nominations repeated.
Alolan Marowak is definitely a necessity for Ghost teams. Nothing else can offer the same important offensive and defensive utility that Alolan Marowak provides. As a Stealth Rocker, it performs better than Golurk in nearly every important matchup. In fact, one of the only reasons Golurk is used at all is to allow Alolan Marowak to run Swords Dance on TR offensive teams. It's also one of the only things that comfortably switches into Tapu Koko on Ghost teams:

252 SpA Magnet Tapu Koko Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Gourgeist-Super in Electric Terrain: 135-159 (36 - 42.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 SpA Tapu Koko Dazzling Gleam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Golurk: 127-151 (39.6 - 47.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Not only that, but in the Fairy matchup, after switching into Tapu Koko, Alolan Marowak is capable of either forcing a switch and getting up Stealth Rock for free, or severely damaging anything that switches in, since every relevant Fairy type right now is 2HKOed by a Shadow Bone.

252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Shadow Bone vs. 252 HP / 172 Def Clefable: 231-273 (58.6 - 69.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Shadow Bone vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 264-312 (77.4 - 91.4%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Shadow Bone vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tapu Bulu: 195-231 (69.1 - 81.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Grassy Terrain recovery


You are correct in saying that it fills certain roles. But these roles are not only extremely important for Ghost teams, but they are also roles that nothing else offers as effectively. Due to this, I have a hard time seeing how a team without Alolan Marowak would perform well in a metagame where Fairy and Steel are running rampant and Alolan Marowak is the largest asset Ghost teams have in these matchups. S rank is more than appropriate for it.
 
Just a few that I wanted to bring up.



Excadrill: A=>S (Steel)

With the prevalence of the major metagame monster that is Tapu Koko, Steel teams depend on having an Electric immunity to help them deal with its constant Volt Switch pivoting. Additionally, Excadrill functions as incredible speed control for both offensive and balanced Steel teams, and being one of the most important Pokemon in matchups like the aforementioned Electric, as well as Fire, Poison, Steel, and Fairy. It even has emergency hazard removal with Rapid Spin, which is especially helpful in matchups that depend on hazards quite a bit, like Bug, Grass, and the previously mentioned Fairy. It's difficult to justify having a Steel team without Excadrill, and for this and the earlier reasons mentioned, Excadrill is worthy of S rank on Steel.



Mega Steelix: C=>B (Ground)

Yes I'm aware that this is another nomination that I've made earlier, but I still think that Mega Steelix deserves a bit more recognition on Ground teams. It serves as the best switch in for Choice Scarf Tapu Bulu that Ground teams have, which is definitely a huge plus. It's also one of the best Stealth Rockers available to sandless Ground teams, being able to phase things out with either Roar or Dragon Tail, similarly to Hippowdon. Even on sand Ground teams, it can still offer a solid offensive presence thanks to Sand Force, and it's capable of freeing up a moveslot for Hippowdon to make room for Toxic or even Rock Slide. Mega Steelix undoubtedly has its fair share of flaws, but the defensive utility it provides for Ground teams puts it in the same level of usefulness as the other B ranks, such as Krookodile, Nidoking, and Mega Garchomp.
 

Infernape: A=>S (Fire)


Cradily: A=>S (Grass)


Diggersby: A=>S (Normal)


Shuckle: A=>S (Rock)


Alolan Marowak: A=>S (Ghost)


Nihilego: A=>S (Rock)


Excadrill: A=>S (Steel)
You should treat S-rank nominations with a bit more weight.

In the last two weeks you've nominated SEVEN pokemon for S-rank: Infernape (Fire), Cradily (Grass), Diggersby (Normal), Shuckle (Rock), Alola Marowak (Ghost), Nihilego (Rock), and now Excadrill (Steel). Let me quickly give my thoughts on each:

Infernape: That's valid; Infernape is Fire's most versatile attacker and the best form of speed control.
Cradily: Cradily forms an effective hazard stack core with Ferrothorn, checks a handful of Fire-types like Volcarona and Mega Charizard Y, and takes pressure off of Ferro and M-Saur to manage special threats, which is appreciated given their limited recovery. But Cradily is not mandatory, and Grass is capable of shirking it in favor of more offensive builds. And even if we were to rank it solely on its contribution to balanced teams, I wouldn't go higher than A-rank as Cradily is very passive, weak to status, and offers no valuable resistances (just neutralities).
Diggersby: Fair. Diggersby is a defining element of Normal mono teams and what makes them dangerous in the metagame.
Shuckle: While Sticky Webs are amazing for Rock, that utility is not enough to justify S-rank for Shuckle. Shuckle is a heavy momentum drain for an offensive type and is extremely passive, relying on Encore to keep set up sweepers from taking advantage of it (which doesn't work on Z-Belly Drum Azumarill).
Marowak-A: Marowak is an excellent asset to ghost teams with a unique blend of offensive and defensive utility, but its very low speed, mediocre bulk, lack of recovery, weakness to hazards, and reliance on Flare Blitz to wallbreak make Alola Wak difficult to rely upon as a wallbreaker or switchin without support.
Nihilego: Valid; it is Rock's most powerful special attacker with a good speed tier, useful coverage for threatening water and ground, excellent special bulk, and actually reliable rock STAB.
Excadrill: Being a solid revenge killer with a useful electric immunity does not make Excadrill as essential to Steel teams as Skarmory, Heatran, or Mega Scizor.

But frankly, most of these nominations are pretty shallow; they aren't any longer or more detailed than your nominations for D and C rank pokemon. An S-ranked pokemon isn't just a Pokémon you should probably use when teambuilding: it's a Pokémon who is absolutely essential to that type's playstyle and defines the metagame with their offenses, defenses, and/or utility. To argue that a given pokemon meets those criteria requires a nomination be a bit more detailed than a paragraph and a sample set.

Using your Alola Marowak nomination as an example...
Maybe this time I'll actually get this right :/



Alolan Marowak: A=>S (Ghost)

It can't be stressed how important Alolan Marowak is for Ghost this gen. I made this nomination earlier, so I'm probably gonna be re-iterating the points from that post. Not only is it the type's best Stealth Rocker, but it's also the type's best physical wallbreaker, capable of tearing through threats such as Toxapex, Magearna, and especially Alolan Muk. Defensively, with its wide amount of resistances along with Lightning Rod, it can switch into Magearna, Tapu Koko, and Zapdos, all of which Ghost teams usually do not appreciate switching into. Not only is Alolan Marowak an essential asset to balanced Ghost teams, but it's among the best abusers for Trick Room offensive Ghost teams, being able to run a more powerful Fire STAB in Flare Blitz thanks to the Rock Head ability, and having the decent bulk and resistances necessary to effectively set up Swords Dance, making short work of top tier types such as Fairy, Steel, and even Poison. Alolan Marowak's offensive and defensive utility makes it without a doubt a staple for Ghost teams and is fully deserving of S rank.

Here are Alolan Marowak's sets for both balanced and TR Ghost teams:
Balance
Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 48 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 204 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shadow Bone
- Fire Punch
- Bonemerang
- Stealth Rock

TR Offense
Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Shadow Bone
- Flare Blitz
- Bonemerang
- Swords Dance
  • Does not reference Alola Marowak's crippling speed and how it is outsped by walls such as Mandibuzz, Porygon2, or Mega Venusaur.
  • No mention of Alola Marowak's poor longevity due to mediocre bulk, a lack of recovery, and a crippling weakness to Stealth Rock.
  • Reliance on vague, "curated", or sometimes incorrect scenarios that do not reflect Marowak's practical usage: for example, Alola Wak does NOT switch in on Magearna, and is in fact KOd by Twinkle Tackle after Stealth Rock damage. Also Wak is not able to reliably "tear through" threats such as Toxapex when it is 2HKOd by scald. The Trick Room set provided is even outsped by Toxapex.
  • Neglects to examine Marowak's struggles in relevant matchups such as Ground and Normal.
  • No replays or calcs to support any of the above arguments or demonstrate how Alola Marowak functions in practice.
Marowak-A is, of course, still an excellent asset to Ghost teams, but your nomination does not examine its limitations and how they affect its use.

So when nominating an S-ranked pokemon, really take the time to examine the Pokemon's practical usage in the metagame. Do not gloss over the pokemon's flaws; account for their frailty, passivity, poor longevity, exploitable weaknesses, or overall unreliability. How limiting are these faults, and how heavily does the pokemon rely on team support to compensate for them? Do not present calcs or "curated" scenarios that exist in a vacuum; instead focus on explaining the pokemon's broad and specific usage in the metagame with realistic examples. Demonstrate that this pokemon is essential to how the type performs in the meta at large, in as many relevant matchups and scenarios as possible. Remember, an S-ranking carries weight.

I didn't intend to write out a whole big thing here, and I want to emphasize that I really appreciate your enthusiasm on the forums. I just feel your contributions will really benefit from some more intensive review and an emphasis on quality over quantity.
 
Last edited:
You should treat S-rank nominations with a bit more weight.

In the last two weeks you've nominated SEVEN pokemon for S-rank: Infernape (Fire), Cradily (Grass), Diggersby (Normal), Shuckle (Rock), Alola Marowak (Ghost), Nihilego (Rock), and now Excadrill (Steel). Let me quickly give my thoughts on each:

Infernape: I agree; Infernape is Fire's most versatile attacker and the best form of speed control.
Cradily: Cradily forms an effective hazard stack core with Ferrothorn, checks a handful of Fire-types like Volcarona and Mega Charizard Y, and takes pressure off of Ferro and M-Saur to manage special threats, which is appreciated given their limited recovery. But Cradily is not mandatory, and Grass is capable of shirking it in favor of more offensive builds. And even if we were to rank it solely on its contribution to balanced teams, I wouldn't go higher than A-rank as Cradily is very passive, weak to status, and offers no valuable resistances (just neutralities).
Diggersby: I agree. Diggersby is a defining element of Normal mono teams and what makes them dangerous in the metagame.
Shuckle: While Sticky Webs are amazing for Rock, that utility is not enough to justify S-rank for Shuckle. Shuckle is a heavy momentum drain for an offensive type and is extremely passive, relying on Encore to keep set up sweepers from taking advantage of it (which doesn't work on Z-Belly Drum Azumarill).
Marowak-A: Marowak is an excellent asset to ghost teams with a unique blend of offensive and defensive utility, but its very low speed, mediocre bulk, lack of recovery, weakness to hazards, and reliance on Flare Blitz to wallbreak make Alola Wak difficult to rely upon as a wallbreaker or switchin without support.
Nihilego: Valid; it is Rock's most powerful special attacker with a good speed tier, useful coverage for threatening water and ground, excellent special bulk, and actually reliable rock STAB.
Excadrill: Being a solid revenge killer with a useful electric immunity does not make Excadrill as essential to Steel teams as Skarmory, Heatran, or Mega Scizor.

But frankly, most of these nominations are pretty shallow; they aren't any longer or more detailed than your nominations for D and C rank pokemon. An S-ranked pokemon isn't just a Pokémon you should probably use when teambuilding: it's a Pokémon who is absolutely essential to that type's playstyle and defines the metagame with their offenses, defenses, and/or utility. To argue that a given pokemon meets those criteria requires a nomination be a bit more detailed than a paragraph and a sample set.

Using your Alola Marowak nomination as an example...

  • Does not reference Alola Marowak's crippling speed and how it is outsped by walls such as Mandibuzz, Porygon2, or Mega Venusaur.
No mention of Alola Marowak's poor longevity due to mediocre bulk, a lack of recovery, and a crippling weakness to Stealth Rock.
  • Reliance on vague, "curated", or sometimes incorrect scenarios that do not reflect Marowak's practical usage: for example, Alola Wak does NOT switch in on Magearna, and is in fact KOd by Twinkle Tackle after Stealth Rock damage. Also Wak is not able to reliably "tear through" threats such as Toxapex when it is 2HKOd by scald. The Trick Room set provided is even outsped by Toxapex.
  • Neglects to examine Marowak's struggles in relevant matchups such as Ground and Normal.
  • No replays or calcs to support any of the above arguments or demonstrate how Alola Marowak functions in practice.
Marowak-A is, of course, still an excellent asset to Ghost teams, but your nomination does not examine its limitations and how they affect its use.

So when nominating an S-ranked pokemon, really take the time to examine the Pokemon's practical usage in the metagame. Do not gloss over the pokemon's flaws; account for their frailty, passivity, poor longevity, exploitable weaknesses, or overall unreliability. How limiting are these faults, and how heavily does the pokemon rely on team support to compensate for them? Do not present calcs or "curated" scenarios that exist in a vacuum; instead focus on explaining the pokemon's broad and specific usage in the metagame with realistic examples. Demonstrate that this pokemon is essential to how the type performs in the meta at large, in as many relevant matchups and scenarios as possible. Remember, an S-ranking carries weight.

I didn't intend to write out a whole big thing here, and I want to emphasize that I really appreciate your enthusiasm on the forums. I just feel your contributions will really benefit from some more intensive review and an emphasis on quality over quantity.
Glad to see that I've done nothing substantial here for the past 2 weeks


But thanks for telling me this. The next time I do an S rank nomination, I'll try to put more time and effort into it, and maybe get input from other users.
 
Golem-A (Electric) | S -> A


Alright, looking at VR I do not think that AGolem defines electric build, or offers a key role in what is commonly known as electric's best build. In my opinion, golem is nothing more than a rare physical electric attacker that has access to stealth rocks. Even then, it's typing combo does not grant much offensively, or defensively. In addition to flying, rock stab also hits bug, ice, and fire, matchups that electric typically doesn't have trouble with. I am taking into account however that golem checks volcarona, charizard x and y, various QD boosters. However, because of it's typing, low speed, and poor special bulk, golem does not stand a chance against these threats without a sash. Defensively, golem is 4x weak to ground, and weak to grass as well.

Alolan golem also does nil vs ground, a troubling matchup for electric. Between galvanize stabs, stone edge, stealth rock, and filler move being toxic or EQ, golem does not have that good coverage. The stronger presence of electric teams this gen also has impacted the metagame, where now more teams are opting for ground immunities. This leaves golem being unable to touch certain types, as it's two stabs do nothing vs ground types. I'd say golem's best use is setting up rocks, and then being a check to certain threats in the back (if sash is intact) with stone edge or explosion. Golem does very little vs types that electric has trouble against, like dragon, grass, ground, and even normal, because ground types readily switch into it.

I do not think that just having rocks makes golem worthy of S rank on electric, and this same trend is seen on the VR for other types as well.
TL;DR: Golem only brings rocks to the type, and being somewhat of a check to certain threats with an item (sash/balloon).

Calcs: Using Mono's suggested spread for golem:
252 SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Solar Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Golem-Alola: 430-506 (142.8 - 168.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Volcarona Hidden Power Ground vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Golem-Alola: 384-452 (127.5 - 150.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 SpA Volcarona Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Golem-Alola: 356-420 (118.2 - 139.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 SpA Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Golem-Alola: 321-378 (106.6 - 125.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Charizard-Mega-X Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Golem-Alola: 348-412 (115.6 - 136.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Charizard-Mega-X Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Golem-Alola: 135-160 (44.8 - 53.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
 
Shiftry Unranked->C (Grass) - When playing Grass I found that my team suffered greatly against Fire teams- Sun Fire teams in particular. Shifty with a decent attack stat and Chlorophyll ability helped with this problem, even if it only took out one or two Pokemon using Rock Slide or Knock Off before getting KO'd. The Dark typing allows for switch-ins on Psychic type moves, keeping your Mega-Venusaur safe for another turn. Shiftry provides a decent lead that's immune to Klefki's Prankster (again, Dark typing)and Shiftry can blow away entry hazards and screens with Defog. Knock Off is always great for getting rid of Eviolite and Leftovers on tankier Pokemon, and the priority of Sucker Punch is always welcome, as the only real priority Grass has is Breloom's Mach Punch, or a status move from Prankster Whimiscott. Leaf Blade's higher critical hit ratio has saved me from Calm Mind Mega-Sableye, allowing me to do damage through a burn a few times.

Honestly, I could go on for hours about Shiftry, but he's still going to be taking the place of a Pokemon who could better fill an Anti-Fire role, like Cradily in my team's case. The 4x weakness to Bug is still present and not all Fire teams run Sun; even then there are some Sun teams that run Heatran, that can easily wall Shiftry. Shiftry also holds back Grass versus Bug, Fighting, and Fairy, but it can still try it's best with the aforementioned moves.

Shiftry (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Leaf Blade
- Rock Slide
- Defog/Sucker Punch


To conclude, Shiftry's good and does a lot, but there are plenty of other Grass types that outshine it in their own ways. However, that's not gonna stop me from using it any time soon.

I apologize if this post is a bit too long, this is my first time posting and I got kinda intimidated by everyone speaking so professionally.
 
Shiftry Unranked->C (Grass) - When playing Grass I found that my team suffered greatly against Fire teams- Sun Fire teams in particular. Shifty with a decent attack stat and Chlorophyll ability helped with this problem, even if it only took out one or two Pokemon using Rock Slide or Knock Off before getting KO'd. The Dark typing allows for switch-ins on Psychic type moves, keeping your Mega-Venusaur safe for another turn. Shiftry provides a decent lead that's immune to Klefki's Prankster (again, Dark typing)and Shiftry can blow away entry hazards and screens with Defog. Knock Off is always great for getting rid of Eviolite and Leftovers on tankier Pokemon, and the priority of Sucker Punch is always welcome, as the only real priority Grass has is Breloom's Mach Punch, or a status move from Prankster Whimiscott. Leaf Blade's higher critical hit ratio has saved me from Calm Mind Mega-Sableye, allowing me to do damage through a burn a few times.

Honestly, I could go on for hours about Shiftry, but he's still going to be taking the place of a Pokemon who could better fill an Anti-Fire role, like Cradily in my team's case. The 4x weakness to Bug is still present and not all Fire teams run Sun; even then there are some Sun teams that run Heatran, that can easily wall Shiftry. Shiftry also holds back Grass versus Bug, Fighting, and Fairy, but it can still try it's best with the aforementioned moves.

Shiftry (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Leaf Blade
- Rock Slide
- Defog/Sucker Punch


To conclude, Shiftry's good and does a lot, but there are plenty of other Grass types that outshine it in their own ways. However, that's not gonna stop me from using it any time soon.

I apologize if this post is a bit too long, this is my first time posting and I got kinda intimidated by everyone speaking so professionally.
Shiftry is mediocre, even in the Fire Match up.

It gets basically walled by Torkoal and fails to OHKO Heatran, Rotom-Heat, or Infernape even with Stealth Rocks. Infernape also KOs Shiftry with Mach Punch if using Life Orb or Choice Band, and Scarf Infernape will outspeed and KO Shiftry unless it's Jolly, which has even less offensive presence.
252+ Atk Life Orb Shiftry Rock Slide vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Torkoal: 112-133 (32.6 - 38.7%) -- 97.9% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Shiftry Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Infernape: 130-153 (44.3 - 52.2%) -- 17.6% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Shiftry Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 179-212 (55.4 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Shiftry Rock Slide vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Rotom-Heat: 185-218 (61 - 71.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Infernape Mach Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Shiftry: 265-315 (82.2 - 97.8%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Shiftry Speed in Sun = 259 x 2 = 518
Infernape @ Choice Scarf = 346 x 1.5 = 519
Shiftry still does more in the Fire matchup than other grass types, admittedly, and it also helps in the Psychic matchup somewhat. But overall, Shiftry is really held back by it's lackluster power and speed outside of sun and is very easily walled.

Unranked or D-rank is fine, IMO.
 
Shiftry Unranked->C (Grass) - When playing Grass I found that my team suffered greatly against Fire teams- Sun Fire teams in particular. Shifty with a decent attack stat and Chlorophyll ability helped with this problem, even if it only took out one or two Pokemon using Rock Slide or Knock Off before getting KO'd. The Dark typing allows for switch-ins on Psychic type moves, keeping your Mega-Venusaur safe for another turn. Shiftry provides a decent lead that's immune to Klefki's Prankster (again, Dark typing)and Shiftry can blow away entry hazards and screens with Defog. Knock Off is always great for getting rid of Eviolite and Leftovers on tankier Pokemon, and the priority of Sucker Punch is always welcome, as the only real priority Grass has is Breloom's Mach Punch, or a status move from Prankster Whimiscott. Leaf Blade's higher critical hit ratio has saved me from Calm Mind Mega-Sableye, allowing me to do damage through a burn a few times.

Honestly, I could go on for hours about Shiftry, but he's still going to be taking the place of a Pokemon who could better fill an Anti-Fire role, like Cradily in my team's case. The 4x weakness to Bug is still present and not all Fire teams run Sun; even then there are some Sun teams that run Heatran, that can easily wall Shiftry. Shiftry also holds back Grass versus Bug, Fighting, and Fairy, but it can still try it's best with the aforementioned moves.

Shiftry (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Leaf Blade
- Rock Slide
- Defog/Sucker Punch


To conclude, Shiftry's good and does a lot, but there are plenty of other Grass types that outshine it in their own ways. However, that's not gonna stop me from using it any time soon.

I apologize if this post is a bit too long, this is my first time posting and I got kinda intimidated by everyone speaking so professionally.
Well, welcome to the VR thread.

There are a few flaws in your reasoning. First, ALL Fire teams run sun, with Torkoal as their sun setter, Stealth Rocker, and hazard remover. In fact, Torkoal very easily beats the set you provided, since Rock Slide isn't even a 3HKO. Klefki isn't a very good example to bring up since it not only can Shiftry do absolutely no damage against it, but Klefki already beats Shiftry 1v1 with Foul Play. Defog is actually more harmful than beneficial for Grass teams, since they heavily rely on hazard stacking between Ferrothorn and Cradily, and Grass teams need those hazards to stay up no matter what. Regarding Calm Mind Mega Sableye, Shiftry isn't even needed in order for Grass to beat it, since the type has very few problems whittling it down to within range of Tapu Bulu's Wood Hammer. Normal's Eviolite core isn't even a big problem for Grass teams, since Ferrothorn and/or Mega Venusaur can chip away at it easily, and SD Breloom can Spore either one of them and proceed to set up and break through them.

While I will agree that Sucker Punch can aid in picking off fast Psychic types that can give Grass teams difficulty, like Victini, Latios, and Meloetta, Shiftry generally performs poorly in matchups outside of Fire and Psychic. With its slight niche appeal, a D ranking may potentially be more appropriate, but it isn't quite up to the level of C ranks like Gourgeist-Super, Dhelmise, and Whimsicott. While this is your first time posting, you can't possibly be worse at this than I am.

Edit: got sniped :/
 
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Shiftry is mediocre, even in the Fire Match up.

It gets basically walled by Torkoal and fails to OHKO Heatran, Rotom-Heat, or Infernape even with Stealth Rocks. Infernape also KOs Shiftry with Mach Punch if using Life Orb or Choice Band, and Scarf Infernape will outspeed and KO Shiftry unless it's Jolly, which has even less offensive presence.
252+ Atk Life Orb Shiftry Rock Slide vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Torkoal: 112-133 (32.6 - 38.7%) -- 97.9% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Shiftry Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Infernape: 130-153 (44.3 - 52.2%) -- 17.6% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Shiftry Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 179-212 (55.4 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Shiftry Rock Slide vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Rotom-Heat: 185-218 (61 - 71.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Infernape Mach Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Shiftry: 265-315 (82.2 - 97.8%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Shiftry Speed in Sun = 259 x 2 = 518
Infernape @ Choice Scarf = 346 x 1.5 = 519
Shiftry still does more in the Fire matchup than other grass types, admittedly, and it also helps in the Psychic matchup somewhat. But overall, Shiftry is really held back by it's lackluster power and speed outside of sun and is very easily walled.

Unranked or D-rank is fine, IMO.
Your points are true, but I have actually made it quite far with Shiftry on my team making it to Elite Four in my league on the Azure PS side server, and have felt more confident with it than I ever will with Cradily. While those Pokemon are definitely problems for my dear Shiftry, they are easily taken care of by my other Pokemon. Heatran, Torkoal and Infernape have no ways of recovering HP beyond Leftovers, and since Infernape is most likely to run Scarf or Sash, any damage helps. Beyond this, Knock Off can deny Heatran and Torkoal their precious Leftovers and starve them for damage while my other Pokemon can take them out.

My main reason for having Shiftry is because of Charizard Y (which could also help with Flying now that I think about it). When I sent in Cradily, it'd either be taking a Fire Blast or a Focus Blast, leaving it with ~50% health. This would normally be fine after a quick heal from Leftovers, but without any sort of hazard removal, we're landing on Rocks, and therein lies the rub. A timid Zard-Y's Flame Blast in the sun does approximately half of Crad's health, leaving it open for being killed the next turn. But let's push my inability to read aside for a moment. If left alone with Cradily, no Zard-Y in their right mind is going to risk a Rock Slide coming for them, so they'll simply switch into Heatran, and we're back at the problem of "This Pokemon can't do squat to Heatran." Now you could set up Stealth Rocks so Zard couldn't come back in, but that's what Torkoal is for, and right now, you're dealing with a Heatran who seems to heavily disagree with your Cradily's breathing patterns. Shiftry still can't take a Fire Blast for crap, but when already in Vs Zard-Y, it just says "Eh, f*** it," and goes for damage, which fits the more Hyper Offensive play-style that Grass's typing would seemingly indicate with its many weaknesses and things that resist it. You also seem to neglect that Shiftry is still doing half of Rotom-H and Heatran's health, with Rotom having a 30% chance to be flinched. Heatran as I've said before, doesn't have any good recovery and with Shiftry's low health, Rotom-H isn't going to be able to use Pain Split very effectively. Hax is hax and will happen at as it pleases.

252 SpA Charizard Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Cradily in Sun: 165-195 (43.8 - 51.8%) -- 71.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery


I'm completely fine with Shiftry being D rank, but I would simply like this Pokemon to be represented. I believe more people need to know that Grass has a half-way decent Knock Off user with the potential to help out with Fire and Flying. The closer Grass gets to being a decent type, the better.
 

mushamu

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Hopefully I don't completely screw these up



Buzzwole: A=>B (Both Bug and Fighting)

Buzzwole's roles have started to fade away with the release of Mega Heracross. As a Banded wallbreaker, while it will be dealing more damage than unboosted Mega Heracross, it doesn't have a spammable Fighting STAB, diminishing its wallbreaking potential quite a bit. It also fails to break certain defensive cores that Mega Heracross can tear through with the appropriate coverage, such as Swampert+Mantine+Toxapex on Balanced Water, Hippowdon+Gastrodon on Ground, and Rotom-Wash+Zapdos on Electric. As a Choice Scarfer, regular Heracross generally performs the job better due to having more spammable Fighting STAB to take advantage of Moxie better than Buzzwole takes advantage of Beast Boost. It also has a more powerful Bug STAB, which helps Fighting teams more against the problematic Psychic matchup, and can outspeed Choice Scarf Togekiss(who isn't affected by the Sticky Web that Bug puts up), and Mega Alakazam without the need of Sticky Web. While Buzzwole still has its great natural physical bulk and has decent coverage in Ice Punch to aid in the Ground and Dragon matchups, it sadly doesn't measure up to Heracross or Mega Heracross, and should be dropped to B rank on both its types.


Infernape: A=>S (Fire)

With the introduction of Nihilego, Fire is at a near autoloss against Scarf sets without Infernape. Infernape is without a doubt Fire's best form of speed control, proving to be a valuable asset in matchups such as Poison, Rock, Dark, Normal, and even Water. Its solid coverage allows it to check threats such as +1 Gyarados, +1 Salamence, +1 Mega Charizard X, Terrakion, Nihilego, Dragonite, Greninja, Mega Aerodactyl, and Mega Sharpedo. Additionally, with U-turn, it can form a VoltTurn core with Rotom-Heat to generate momentum, which for an offensive type like Fire is extremely important. Even outside of Scarf sets, it also pulls off Banded wallbreaking sets effectively. It's still capable of checking Pokemon like Greninja and Mega Sharpedo, but Banded sets give Fire more of a chance against the monster that is Double Dance Terrakion, picking it off after a little bit of prior chip damage. With its amazing speed control, pivoting, and checking many monstrous threats for the type, Infernape is a solid pick on just about any Fire team and is definitely deserving of S rank.

Here are some of Infernape's best sets right now:
Infernape @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Close Combat
- U-turn
- Earthquake / Stone Edge

Infernape @ Choice Band
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Close Combat
- Mach Punch
- Stone Edge / U-turn




Cradily: A=>S (Grass)

I made this nomination much earlier, so I'll probably be re-iterating a lot of the points I made then. Cradily forms an essential part of Grass's defensive core due to being the type's best Stealth Rocker, which is invaluable for Grass teams when facing unfavorable matchups like Fire, Flying, Bug, Poison, Ice, and Psychic. Its great bulk and access to Recover makes it an incredible Fire and Flying sponge, making it THE single greatest defensive check for Volcarona and Mega Charizard Y, which is undescribably essential to Grass. With the roles it offers being so important for Grass teams, and being a large part of Grass's defensive core, Cradily is fully deserving of S rank on Grass.

Here's what I think is Cradily's best set right now:
Cradily @ Leftovers
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Rock Slide
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Recover




Porygon-Z: S=>A

While Porygon-Z is undoubtedly an amazing wincon for Normal teams, it doesn't quite measure up to the other S ranks on Normal, with Chansey being one of the greatest special walls in the metagame and the type's best Stealth Rocker, Porygon2 being the type's best check to Mega Scizor as well as being the best physical wall for Normal, and Staraptor not only being Normal's best Fighting switch in, but the type's best Defogger and Scarfer on offensive Normal teams. Porygon-Z's Speed, while not completely terrible, is only average at best, leaving it outsped by a large portion of Scarfers in the metagame such as Landorus-Therian, Victini, Infernape, Terrakion, Hydreigon Latios, and Gengar, while also having some average bulk even after the increase from Z-Conversion. This usually results in it either getting taken out or being forced out, losing the boosts from Z-Conversion and not being able to set up ever again. Its susceptibility to being revenge killed is mostly dependent on what type it transforms into. If it becomes a Ghost, it'll just be left more susceptible to Scarf Gengar and Hydreigon, as well as Sucker Punch users like Bisharp and Pursuit trappers like Alolan Muk and Tyranitar. If it turns into an Electric type, it's left open to Scarf Landorus-Therian and Garchomp, as well as Excadrill in sand and Mega Swampert in rain. I feel as though Porygon-Z, while being an incredible wincon, doesn't quite offer enough compared to the other S ranks and is more suitable in A rank.



Diggersby: A=>S (Normal)

Diggersby is without a doubt one of Normal's best wallbreakers and is one of the main reasons Normal excels in top-tier matchups like Electric and Poison, as well as breaking through Steel with Earthquake+Fire Punch. Additionally, it also has access to Knock Off, which greatly helps in Normal mirrors when dealing with the Eviolite core of Chansey+Porygon2, and U-turn, which provides a great source of momentum to both Offensive and Balanced Normal teams. Despite its rather lacking Speed tier, it can still serve as an effective revenge killer with Quick Attack, being able to pick off Alolan Raichu a lot of the time after Stealth Rock and having a chance to remove Azumarill after it goes for a Z-Belly Drum. Diggersby is simply an amazing pick on Normal teams of any archetype, and is more than worthy of S rank on Normal.

Here's what I think is Diggersby's best set right now:
Diggersby @ Choice Band
Ability: Huge Power
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Frustration
- Quick Attack
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch / Knock Off / U-turn




Shuckle: A=>S (Rock)

Shuckle is easily Rock's best hazard setter and speed control option with Sticky Web. With this Sticky Web support, it provides Rock's wallbreakers/sweepers like Terrakion, Tyranitar, Nihilego, Omastar, and Mega Aerodactyl a much better shot against problematic matchups such as Steel, Bug, Ground, Fairy, and especially Fighting. In addition to this, Shuckle's great defenses and Grass and Fighting neutralities let it switch into Pokemon like Breloom and Mega Venusaur rather easily. With access to Knock Off, although Rock doesn't have many issues with Normal's Eviolite core, it's still great for removing Choice Scarves from threats like Terrakion, Keldeo, and Heracross. Encore is simply amazing utility for Rock teams, not only leaving setup sweepers exposed, but also giving Shuckle an easier time setting up with Sticky Web and Stealth Rock. With the amazing utility Shuckle provides, it solidifies itself as a fantastic option for just about any Rock team and is definitely deserving of S rank on Rock.

Here's what I think is Shuckle's best set right now:
Shuckle @ Mental Herb
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Sticky Web
- Knock Off
- Encore
About the buzzwhole: I agree with your nomination on fighting but not on bug.

Here's why: On bug Buzzwole isn't really "outclassed" by Mega Heracross because Mega Heracross is a mega evolution. Even with Mega Heracross in the game, it isn't hard to justify a team slot on Bug for Buzzwole because Bug teams will usually use their Mega slot for Mega Scizor or Pinsir, both of which may be greater picks (I don't play bug) on bug. If Mega Heracross wasn't a mega evolution then yeah maybe Buzzwole would drop but I think Buzzwole will retain it's A ranking.
On fighting when M-Gallade comes out, Mega Heracross may see less usage, since Mega Gallade is faster and can deal with types such as psychic and ghost with priority shadow sneak & knock off. I think Buzzwole should drop on fighting ONLY for now, or we could wait till Mega Gallade releases and go from there.
 
Your points are true, but I have actually made it quite far with Shiftry on my team making it to Elite Four in my league on the Azure PS side server, and have felt more confident with it than I ever will with Cradily.
Your personal success doesn't determine where a pokemon is ranked. Also, bringing up you being E4 in a league on a side server doesn't actually signify much, and I hope you never use that again in this thread.
 

Havens

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Ferrothorn: A => S (Steel)



I'm kind of surprised Ferrothorn isn't an S rank mon yet. It has the extra Grass typing that solidly tanks Water, Electric, and Ground moves; something that partners such as Skarmory, Heatran and Celesteela can't afford to take. Iron Barbs punishes Physical Attackers by chipping away at their HP bit by bit, especially ones that potentially often "abuse" a Choice item like Jirachi, Tapu Bulu, and Diggersby, and also acts as a Sturdy/Sash breaker that permits teammates such as Mold Breaker Excadrill, Scarf Magnezone and Mega Scizor to preceed to Revenge Kill, Sweep, or Setup. The combination of Leftovers + Leech Seed promotes its longevity on the field, and Hazards in the form of Spikes and Stealth Rock also greatly punish the opponent upon switchin. Offensively, Gyro Ball hits opponents for solid chunks of damage, and threatens faster mons like Latios, Tapu Koko, Mega Alakazam, Kyurem-Black, and Scarf Nihilego. Alternitavely, Power Whip checks the somewhat of a Water weakness Steel types commonly have and can't normally defeat without the likes of Scarf Magnezone and/or Thunderbolt/Energy Ball Magearna. While the moveset of this mon rarely varies, the fact that it is one of the games bulkiest pivots with a typing that handles three of Steel's problems comfortably make it an invaluable member of the types' overall dynamic and defensive capabilities. As a result, I nominate Ferrothorn for S rank.

P.S. I don't remember if Ferrothorn was nominated earlier or not; if it was, I apologize in advance.
 
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Acast

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Ferrothorn: A => S (Steel)



I'm kind of surprised Ferrothorn isn't an S rank mon yet. It has the extra Grass typing that solidly tanks Water, Electric, and Ground moves; something that partners such as Skarmory, Heatran and Celesteela can't afford to take. Iron Barbs punishes Physical Attackers by chipping away at their HP bit by bit, especially ones that potentially often "abuse" a Choice item like Jirachi, Tapu Bulu, and Diggersby, and also acts as a Sturdy/Sash breaker that permits teammates such as Mold Breaker Excadrill, Scarf Magnezone and Mega Scizor to preceed to Revenge Kill, Sweep, or Setup. The combination of Leftovers + Leech Seed promotes its longevity on the field, and Hazards in the form of Spikes and Stealth Rock also greatly punish the opponent upon switchin. Offensively, Gyro Ball hits opponents for solid chunks of damage, and threatens faster mons like Latios, Tapu Koko, Mega Alakazam, Kyurem-Black, and Scarf Nihilego. Alternitavely, Power Whip checks the somewhat of a Water weakness Steel types commonly have and can't normally defeat without the likes of Scarf Magnezone and/or Thunderbolt/Energy Ball Magearna. While the moveset of this mon rarely varies, the fact that it is one of the games bulkiest pivots with a typing that handles three of Steel's problems comfortably make it an invaluable member of the types' overall dynamic and defensive capabilities. As a result, I nominate Ferrothorn for S rank.

P.S. I don't remember if Ferrothorn was nominated earlier or not; if it was, I apologize in advance.
Ferrothorn is a very good pokemon for Steel, but it's not worthy of S rank. Look at the other 3 S rank mons. Heatran is 100% mandatory on any decent Steel team for obvious reasons. Skarmory (or Celesteela) is also 100% mandatory. Skarm just happens to function better in the Steel immunity core than Celesteela, so it's ranked higher. Magearna is arguably the single most threatening pokemon in the entire metagame, and it's one of the main reasons Steel teams can be so potent offensively.

Compared to the 3 mons currently ranked S on Steel, Ferrothorn just doesn't measure up. Steel can and does function quite well without it. Ferrothorn can be very useful and it does a lot of things for Steel, but that's why it's ranked as high as it is now. It just isn't as important as Heatran, Skarmory, or Magearna, so it should remain A.
 

Scrafty (Fighting) C -> Unranked
Scrafty is a Pokemon that severely struggles to fit on Fighting teams. It has very lackluster attacking stats, abysmal speed, and decent bulk. While it's Dark/Fighting type may aid the user against the Psychic matchup, it is overall an unwanted typing, being nearly useless in the Fairy matchup. It's other Dark/Fighting competitor, Pangoro, at least has coverage (Gunk Shot, Bullet Punch) to beat the Fairy types it's so weak to, as well as a very respectable Attack stat. Its Speed stat is way too low to make effective use of Dragon Dance. Scrafty gets Iron Head and Poison Jab, though it STILL finds itself walled by Fairies due to its lackluster offenses.

252 Atk Life Orb Scrafty Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 156-185 (39.5 - 46.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

If the player would like a Dark/Fighting Pokemon to perhaps aid in the Psychic and Ghost matchup, Pangoro is the way to go. It possesses 124 Attack in relation to Scrafty's 90, so it has much more wallbreaking power, as well as the benefit of not being a complete waste in the Fairy matchup thanks to Gunk Shot and its priority Bullet Punch boosted by Iron Fist.



Lucario (Fighting) B -> C
Lucario suffers from not fitting well on most Fighting teams. It has great offensive coverage, ability to go mixed or special, and a good Steel typing to help with some matchups. However, the same Fighting/Steel typing is a detriment to Lucario, as Cobalion is usually the better Fighting/Steel Pokemon and a near mandatory option on serious Fighting teams. Lucario has a rather lackluster Speed stat, also, and it gets walled by many common Pokemon in this metagame. Lucario is a threat if it's given a chance to set up, but unfortunately it's rather hard thanks to its poor bulk. Even after a Swords Dance or Nasty Plot, Lucario struggles heavily to OHKO most Pokemon with its priority moves. All this being said, Lucario has a niche thanks to its useful typing, but it requires much of the team to be built around it, and it requires more support than the other Pokemon which are B-ranked, so I think Lucario best belongs in C rank. Here are some calcs to support my reasoning:

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Lucario Bullet Punch vs. 248 HP / 88 Def Venusaur-Mega: 118-140 (32.5 - 38.5%) -- 97.8% chance to 3HKO

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Koko: 231-273 (82.2 - 97.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+4 252 Atk Life Orb Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Tapu Fini: 265-313 (77.2 - 91.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Lucario: 283-334 (100.7 - 118.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Life Orb Tapu Koko Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Lucario in Electric Terrain: 308-364 (109.6 - 129.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Lucario Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 159-190 (42.5 - 50.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
 

roman

Banned deucer.

Scrafty (Fighting) C -> Unranked
Scrafty is a Pokemon that severely struggles to fit on Fighting teams. It has very lackluster attacking stats, abysmal speed, and decent bulk. While it's Dark/Fighting type may aid the user against the Psychic matchup, it is overall an unwanted typing, being nearly useless in the Fairy matchup. It's other Dark/Fighting competitor, Pangoro, at least has coverage (Gunk Shot, Bullet Punch) to beat the Fairy types it's so weak to, as well as a very respectable Attack stat. Its Speed stat is way too low to make effective use of Dragon Dance. Scrafty gets Iron Head and Poison Jab, though it STILL finds itself walled by Fairies due to its lackluster offenses.

252 Atk Life Orb Scrafty Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 156-185 (39.5 - 46.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

If the player would like a Dark/Fighting Pokemon to perhaps aid in the Psychic and Ghost matchup, Pangoro is the way to go. It possesses 124 Attack in relation to Scrafty's 90, so it has much more wallbreaking power, as well as the benefit of not being a complete waste in the Fairy matchup thanks to Gunk Shot and its priority Bullet Punch boosted by Iron Fist.



Lucario (Fighting) B -> C
Lucario suffers from not fitting well on most Fighting teams. It has great offensive coverage, ability to go mixed or special, and a good Steel typing to help with some matchups. However, the same Fighting/Steel typing is a detriment to Lucario, as Cobalion is usually the better Fighting/Steel Pokemon and a near mandatory option on serious Fighting teams. Lucario has a rather lackluster Speed stat, also, and it gets walled by many common Pokemon in this metagame. Lucario is a threat if it's given a chance to set up, but unfortunately it's rather hard thanks to its poor bulk. Even after a Swords Dance or Nasty Plot, Lucario struggles heavily to OHKO most Pokemon with its priority moves. All this being said, Lucario has a niche thanks to its useful typing, but it requires much of the team to be built around it, and it requires more support than the other Pokemon which are B-ranked, so I think Lucario best belongs in C rank. Here are some calcs to support my reasoning:

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Lucario Bullet Punch vs. 248 HP / 88 Def Venusaur-Mega: 118-140 (32.5 - 38.5%) -- 97.8% chance to 3HKO

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Koko: 231-273 (82.2 - 97.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+4 252 Atk Life Orb Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Tapu Fini: 265-313 (77.2 - 91.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Lucario: 283-334 (100.7 - 118.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Life Orb Tapu Koko Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Lucario in Electric Terrain: 308-364 (109.6 - 129.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Lucario Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 159-190 (42.5 - 50.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
i don't really see how lucario and coba can be compared. lucario is an offensive powerhouse while coba typically provides bulky support through utility such as taunt/twave/rocks. also if the type overlap really bothers you then opting for another sr lead such as nape or terrak is fine too. btw no ofc locario isnt going to be wallbreaking. its role is revenging or cleaning with band/setup.

seems perfectly fine in b

edit: btw those calcs make almost no sense. first off fighting is getting rocks vs fairy like every time which means that espeeds killing koko since hazard clearance is really rare on fairy rn. also with half of those mons ur clicking a more powerful stab since u don't need prio to outpace. and some of these mons get almost no usage and adding calcs against lucario doesn't rly make sense bc it's never used for defensive utility
 
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Kev

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Suicune (Water) C=>A (or B at least)
Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 40 SpD / 216 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Protect
- Scald


Suicune has gained a lot of popularity in MPL, with it's Vincune set being the reason for this sudden rise in usage. The combination of Protect+Substitute with Pressure allows it to easily stall out some threats. Furthermore, Suicune has great natural bulk that makes it quite easy for it to set up Calm Minds to eventually sweep the opposing team. It also has amazing team support that allows it to become even more dangerous as a set. A few examples would be Toxic Spikes increasing the Pressure imposed by SubTect and the wide variety of electric immunities available as partners. Moreover, Suicune is very difficult to stop on most types. Without good Grass-type or Electric-type coverage, Suicune can normally safely set up and clean up the field. Overall, it is an amazing Pokemon in the current meta that can help water in annoying matchups like Fairy and Poison while performing solidly in every matchup.

Here's a replay from MPL (Leru vs Acast) that shows how Suicune can remove some pressure from the horrendous Fairy vs Water matchup:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7monotype-585679728
 
Just a quick nomination:

Celesteela: A ----> S
edit: for steel

I don't honestly know why this thing isnt S ranked yet. For starters, this monster puts tremendous pressure on almost any ground build. ive been on the recieving end of this thing and no matter what set it uses its a massive pain in my backside. assault vest especially being the worst. Can't set gravity without taking an hp ice and losing landorus, and no other mon can really force it out 1v1 unless gravity is up or unless i specifically cteam this one mon. which just limits which sets i can use on what.

This thing also helps in the steel vs steel matchups as it can carry flamethrower/fire blast and/or Earthquake. which can force out every mon on steel if heatrans balloon is popped.

It just in general helps steel out by being a special mon to complement skarmory/heatran as well as being capable of being more offensive as to be a great ground immunity for HO steels.

It eats hits from things that normally trouble steel like, greninja, landorus i and landorus t, and hydreigon and is able to deal either massive damage, or just ohko it outright. Id highly recommend a jump for this thing

sorry if this is sloppy, its a bit rushed but i just had to get my thoughts out.
 
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