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You know that move called powder that is barely known? Yea its a vivillion-exclusive temporary status move with priority that causes the opponent take 25% recoil every time they use a fire move, basically a pseudo fire immunity which is pretty neat
In pac however it will gain a bug typing now having additional ground, grass and bug resistance, while having a rock and fighting neutrality, and being weak to flying and 8x weakness to fire
One thing for sure is tho, fairies are gonna be pretty broken here (tapu lele with lava plume, gg) with now access to fire and ground moves
Now tapu bulu can finally have edgequake coverage like it always wanted, best thing is thousand arrows (i didnt notice it was banned, thanks for correction the user below me) bonemerang isnt effected by grassy terrain so you can hit those dam steels, or it can have sacred fire in a bulky set, or maybe it can finally get some fairy stab
And in PAC it could possibly be an anti tapu mon utlizing an excellent fairy grass steel typing
You know that move called powder that is barely known? Yea its a vivillion-exclusive temporary status move with priority that causes the opponent take 25% recoil every time they use a fire move, basically a pseudo fire immunity which is pretty neat
In pac however it will gain a bug typing now having additional ground, grass and bug resistance, while having a rock and fighting neutrality, and being weak to flying and 8x weakness to fire
One thing for sure is tho, fairies are gonna be pretty broken here (tapu lele with lava plume, gg) with now access to fire and ground moves
Now tapu bulu can finally have edgequake coverage like it always wanted, best thing is thousand arrows isnt effected by grassy terrain so you can hit those dam steels, or it can have sacred fire in a bulky set, or maybe it can finally get some fairy stab
And in PAC it could possibly be an anti tapu mon utlizing an excellent fairy grass steel typing
Plates Palace
Hmm, yes, me again. Just another Type-based meta and I suppose that technically you could call it an alternative to the (decent) idea above, but it's worth a shot.
Premise:When a plate/Z-Crystal is being held by the Pokemon, they will gain a type that the Crystal/Plate corresponds to (i.e. Conkeldurr would become Ghost/Fighting if he had a Spooky Plate/Ghostinium Z) and they would also get one move of said type added. Finally, all Normal moves the Pokemon has will become the corresponding type of the Crystal/Plate (again, return for conkeldurr would be Ghost with a Spooky Plate/Ghostinium-Z)
Notes:
-Z-crystals and Plates work the same, except for the fact that Plates have the extra effect of a new type + move.
-If the Pokemon has one type, they gain an additional typing. If they have two types, the first or the second one is slotted out for the new one (You decide the one being slotted out by making the Pokemon shiny or not.)
-You can not have duplicate Plates/Z-Crystals on one team. For example, you can't have Ghostinium Z's and a Spooky Plate be one the same team.
Banlist:
-OU Banlist.
-Spore and Shell Smash.
-Shedninja-Suspect (Holy christ I need another post to explain this but long story short, Shedninja has a very good stall game with a Dark/Ghost typing. My first immediate thought was switch in to a Pokemon without a fairy move, then do Z-Memento and fully heal the next Pokemon.)
(That's all the bans I could solidify. I may ban Belly Drum at a point but didn't think it was serious enough for a suspect. )
Potential Threats:
Conkeldurr @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Shadow Sneak
- Bulk Up
- Mach Punch
- Giga Impact
This was the first 'mon that came to mind for me, and it's already looking dangerous. First off, this dual stab combination hits everything in the meta neutrally. Shadow Sneak when it's boosted does tons amount of damage and the priority does not curse it, either. Mach Punch is also an efefctive priority move but the real threat is Giga Impact, which when boosted with hazards provides
a killcon for most Pokemon,
+2 252+ Atk Spooky Plate Conkeldurr Giga Impact vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Multiscale Lugia: 612-720 (147.1 - 173%) -- guaranteed OHKO (This is assuming that Giga Impact has 225 Power due to the two boosts it's been given from the ability and Bulk Up boosts.)
+2 252+ Atk Spooky Plate Conkeldurr Giga Impact vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Celesteela: 480-565 (120.6 - 141.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO ( This was was taken with Celesteela having a +! boost in Defense, which was a stretch, but that contributes more to my point on how god awful this thing is.)
252 Atk Flame Plate Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. +2 252 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 253-298 (61.1 - 71.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO ( Considering that Conkeldurr can Bulk Up again and then kill it with a Shadow Sneak or Mach Punch does not help things. )
Premise: Combine moves to gain secondary effects and average power or carry fewer than four moves to gain strength.
Notes: Moves of the same type, category, and target can be combined to form hybrid moves. These moves will be averaged, rounded, add 1 point for each extra move, lose 2 accuracy points for each extra move, superscore the secondary effects, and keep the highest PP. You may bring up to 6 moves but the extra two moves must be used for making a hybrid. For example, Superpower and Close Combat will combine into a 121 power move with 98 acc and it will lower attack, defense, and special defense one stage.
What happens when six moves are combined into one?
Run by the worst Smeargle, the moves would all mush together to make a ground attack that burrows turn one, then on turn two, hits flying types, has a high critical hit ratio, traps and damages the target for 4-5 turns, lowers the target's speed, does contact, and will do double damage if the last move failed.
In the end this Smeargle only has one move that averages to 70 damage with 5 extra points for lumping 5 extra moves to make 75 damage move. That ground type move will also have its accuracy rounded to 97 then subtracted 10 acc for the 5 additional moves to give it 87 acc.
Combining all 6 possible moves does give an underwhelming single move that has 75 Bp, 87 acc, and 32 PP but the secondary effects are massive.
The fact that priority/punch/contact/sound/ballistic/etc moves carry over in the combination process makes nice additions for Pokemon that utilize these with their abilities. Sheer Force Pokemon like Nidoking can get new moves like bulldoze+earthquake to boost off of makes room for new threats and creative strategies.
On the reverse side of this, using fewer than four moves in general gives your pokemon a boost. Only bringing three moves (before combining Flamethrower, Protect, and Tackle for example) gives your Pokemon a 10% boost to their Attack and Special Attack. Two moves gives you 15% boost, and for those minimalists out there, bringing one move gives you the same 15% boost but with the tinted lens effect, doubling damage on not very effective hits.
Z-moves can't be used on Hybrid moves and will not get the same boosts as bringing only one move to the battle.
Moves with fixed damage will only do the fixed damage amounts such as Seismic Toss + Power-Up Punch + Cross Chop will only take away 100 HP from the target just like Seismic Toss does, and it will boost your attack one stage just like power up punch would do. However, Seismic Toss can't critical hit and thanks to Cross Chop's 80 accuracy, the move suffers with 89 accuracy so Cross Chop ends up hurting more than benefiting.
Multi Hit moves will be averaged as how much damage they can possibly do and the secondary effects will be divided among each hit. Bullet Seed + Leaf Blade on a Sceptile would do 107.5 BP then divided by 5 and rounded to 22 then add 1 to do 23 BP per hit with each hit having a high crit ratio. A Ninetails using Headbutt + Tail Slap would bring about a 2-5 hit move with each hit doing 20 BP and having a 6% chance to flinch the target - not 30% per each hit.
Variable move damages like Magnitude, or Gyro Ball will have their current outputs averaged with their other attacks.
Hidden Power will not be averaged.
Non damaging moves will need to have the same target or hit you and the opponent to combine. Leech Seed and Spore will work but Belly Drum and Roar will not. I'm debating whether non damaging moves can combine with different targets if they have a move that targets both to bridge them such as Charge + Electric Terrain + Thunder Wave.
Moves will automatically be lumped together.
Each Pokemon must have a legal move set.
Banlist: OU banlist, and combining priority and flinch.
Potential Threats: Technician pokemon with crafty ways to get many secondary effects and around 60 BP, Prankster mons with ways to load up priority healing with new perks or dish out crazy status to your pokemon, and pokemon with access to stronger STAB attacks.
Blastoise gets a nice damage boost on Water Pulse with a chance to burn and confuse. Aura Sphere and Focus Blast will always hit at long last. Both moves are boosted by Mega Launcher allowing Blastoise to take down more of the meta.
With a U-Turn that will do 84 damage after technician and will do double damage each turn if it's stuck or the last pokemon standing and a priority bullet punch with a chance to raise defense, Scizor has the power it was looking for maximize both its STAB moves.
Ferrothorn @ Choice Band
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
Smack your opponent with Gyro Ball. Play bowling pin sounds for maximum effect.
Questions for the Community:
How can I make this pet om better and more balanced? What kind of sets will be too broken?
Pokemon get benefits from having less than four moves too. By only having one move, Ferrothorn gets 15% better Special Attack and Attack as well as hitting not very effective pokemon for twice the damage. It was part of the minimal side of the meta.
bear in mind that things like trapping and 1k arrows hitting flying types are not secondary effects. honestly i dont really get the dual nature of the metagame with both the minimal part and hybrid part, they dont feel like they tie together in any way and i think should be separate.. i think the concept of merging both moves is kinda interesting and i think there is potential there. but it would be much more interesting to cut the minimal part cus noone wants to play pokemon with 1 attack. Using multiple attacks of the same typing all merged together already limits your moveset.
heres an idea for how you could turn it into something a bit more balanced (?), simple and interesting:
When using a STAB move of a certain type, pokemon will use all moves of that type that are in its moveset. The attacks will be done consecutively, running down the list from top to bottom, and this stops after it reaches/uses a status move. These multi-attacks deal 55% of their maximum damage. If one move misses or fails, all consecutive moves stop. All moves inherit the lowest priority of the move chain.
So using Superpower + Close Combat together will be effectively a 132BP move (although make sure to have cc before superpower so you dont drop attack), that eventually drops your attack by 1, defense by 2, special defense by 1. Using Acid Spray + Sludge Wave together in a set will allow you to hit for 121BP thanks to the special defense drop. To add some limitation on these potentially very powerful moves, they only work on STAB attacks, so prediction can be made more easily.
You could run 3 moves of the exact same typing also- for instance Primarina (random example) might use Scald, Surf, and Hydro Pump in a set and rely on a single slot for coverage. This would grant it access to a very hard-hitting 154 BP move that has a 30% chance to burn, but leaves the mon with almost no coverage. For some mons, this will be acceptable due to access to multiple high-damage STAB moves that can be combined together, but for instance the combination of Dazzling Gleam + Moonblast + Disarming Voice on Clefable does not provide as extraordinary results and it cant afford the slots.
Status moves will be used as a consecutive move, but the chain will stop after they are used. So if I use earth power with Palossand, with Shore Up as the next ground type move, earth power will do 50BP followed by the 50% heal from shore up. It is a sacrifice of damage to be granted a boost in utility and defensive presence, allowing defensive teams some options vs all the 150BP moves getting thrown around. But also using things like Acrobatics + Brave Bird + Roost would be a deadly combination- 126BP attack followed by 50% healing, although taking up 3 slots.
Also imagine the utility of being able to use things such as Knock Off + Parting Shot for instance, or hitting at the same time as taunting. This will lead to some bans of broken combinations (substitute for instance, destiny bond, and protective moves) but will make the meta a bit more interesting and less scattered imo
Wasn't 100% sure how to send a Pet Mod thing here, but this is the best I could do.
Premise: To turn real-life items such as a broom, flashlight, or even a pencil into items you can use for battle!
Format: OU, with new items.
What might be buffed: Well, depending on how things go, I'd say mainly abilities like Unburden or even Suction cups could be useful, along with especially Knock Off, as there'll more than likely be a lot of new great items that Knock Off will just love to, yknow, knock off. :P
Tell me what y'all think! I didn't really see a lot of explanation to do with this, as it's just turning real life stuff into items for battle, but please tell me if I missed anything and tell me if you like the idea as well. Thanks! :)
Wasn't 100% sure how to send a Pet Mod thing here, but this is the best I could do. Premise: To turn real-life items such as a broom, flashlight, or even a pencil into items you can use for battle!
Format: OU, with new items.
What might be buffed: Well, depending on how things go, I'd say mainly abilities like Unburden or even Suction cups could be useful, along with especially Knock Off, as there'll more than likely be a lot of new great items that Knock Off will just love to, yknow, knock off. :P
Tell me what y'all think! I didn't really see a lot of explanation to do with this, as it's just turning real life stuff into items for battle, but please tell me if I missed anything and tell me if you like the idea as well. Thanks! :)
Premise: Combine moves to gain secondary effects and average power or carry fewer than four moves to gain strength.
Notes: Moves of the same type, category, and target can be combined to form hybrid moves. These moves will be averaged, rounded, add 1 point for each extra move, lose 2 accuracy points for each extra move, superscore the secondary effects, and keep the highest PP. You may bring up to 6 moves but the extra two moves must be used for making a hybrid. For example, Superpower and Close Combat will combine into a 121 power move with 98 acc and it will lower attack, defense, and special defense one stage.
What happens when six moves are combined into one?
Run by the worst Smeargle, the moves would all mush together to make a ground attack that burrows turn one, then on turn two, hits flying types, has a high critical hit ratio, traps and damages the target for 4-5 turns, lowers the target's speed, does contact, and will do double damage if the last move failed.
In the end this Smeargle only has one move that averages to 70 damage with 5 extra points for lumping 5 extra moves to make 75 damage move. That ground type move will also have its accuracy rounded to 97 then subtracted 10 acc for the 5 additional moves to give it 87 acc.
Combining all 6 possible moves does give an underwhelming single move that has 75 Bp, 87 acc, and 32 PP but the secondary effects are massive.
The fact that priority/punch/contact/sound/ballistic/etc moves carry over in the combination process makes nice additions for Pokemon that utilize these with their abilities. Sheer Force Pokemon like Nidoking can get new moves like bulldoze+earthquake to boost off of makes room for new threats and creative strategies.
On the reverse side of this, using fewer than four moves in general gives your pokemon a boost. Only bringing three moves (before combining Flamethrower, Protect, and Tackle for example) gives your Pokemon a 10% boost to their Attack and Special Attack. Two moves gives you 15% boost, and for those minimalists out there, bringing one move gives you the same 15% boost but with the tinted lens effect, doubling damage on not very effective hits.
Z-moves can't be used on Hybrid moves and will not get the same boosts as bringing only one move to the battle.
Moves with fixed damage will only do the fixed damage amounts such as Seismic Toss + Power-Up Punch + Cross Chop will only take away 100 HP from the target just like Seismic Toss does, and it will boost your attack one stage just like power up punch would do. However, Seismic Toss can't critical hit and thanks to Cross Chop's 80 accuracy, the move suffers with 89 accuracy so Cross Chop ends up hurting more than benefiting.
Multi Hit moves will be averaged as how much damage they can possibly do and the secondary effects will be divided among each hit. Bullet Seed + Leaf Blade on a Sceptile would do 107.5 BP then divided by 5 and rounded to 22 then add 1 to do 23 BP per hit with each hit having a high crit ratio. A Ninetails using Headbutt + Tail Slap would bring about a 2-5 hit move with each hit doing 20 BP and having a 6% chance to flinch the target - not 30% per each hit.
Variable move damages like Magnitude, or Gyro Ball will have their current outputs averaged with their other attacks.
Hidden Power will not be averaged.
Non damaging moves will need to have the same target or hit you and the opponent to combine. Leech Seed and Spore will work but Belly Drum and Roar will not. I'm debating whether non damaging moves can combine with different targets if they have a move that targets both to bridge them such as Charge + Electric Terrain + Thunder Wave.
Moves will automatically be lumped together.
Each Pokemon must have a legal move set.
Banlist: OU banlist, and combining priority and flinch.
Potential Threats: Technician pokemon with crafty ways to get many secondary effects and around 60 BP, Prankster mons with ways to load up priority healing with new perks or dish out crazy status to your pokemon, and pokemon with access to stronger STAB attacks.
Blastoise gets a nice damage boost on Water Pulse with a chance to burn and confuse. Aura Sphere and Focus Blast will always hit at long last. Both moves are boosted by Mega Launcher allowing Blastoise to take down more of the meta.
With a U-Turn that will do 84 damage after technician and will do double damage each turn if it's stuck or the last pokemon standing and a priority bullet punch with a chance to raise defense, Scizor has the power it was looking for maximize both its STAB moves.
Ferrothorn @ Choice Band
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
Smack your opponent with Gyro Ball. Play bowling pin sounds for maximum effect.
Questions for the Community:
How can I make this pet om better and more balanced? What kind of sets will be too broken?
I agree with what Pipotchi said about the last idea not seeming related. Imo these are two separate ideas and you need to do what my playwriting teacher used to call "kill your babies" although I think darlings is used more widely than babies... meaning you need to get rid of an idea you like and think is good because it doesn't with the grander scheme of things.
Averaging the bp (+ a basically irrelevant 1 that exists only to make things more difficult to calc) seems rough. I feel like most mons might rather run a usual moveset. I suppose allowing 6 moveslots addresses this, but this again seems like a strange addition that isn't part of the core idea and I would rather see leave. Perhaps finding a way to make it worth the cost of having fewer moves to use would be wise.
As a final note I find oms work best when they have a simple idea that can be summed up in one line, and you just know basically how they work. It lowers the barrier for entry and prevents good ideas getting lost amongst fluff among other things.
Work on these things and I may throw a like your way!
bear in mind that things like trapping and 1k arrows hitting flying types are not secondary effects. honestly i dont really get the dual nature of the metagame with both the minimal part and hybrid part, they dont feel like they tie together in any way and i think should be separate.. i think the concept of merging both moves is kinda interesting and i think there is potential there. but it would be much more interesting to cut the minimal part cus noone wants to play pokemon with 1 attack. Using multiple attacks of the same typing all merged together already limits your moveset.
heres an idea for how you could turn it into something a bit more balanced (?), simple and interesting:
When using a STAB move of a certain type, pokemon will use all moves of that type that are in its moveset. The attacks will be done consecutively, running down the list from top to bottom, and this stops after it reaches/uses a status move. These multi-attacks deal 55% of their maximum damage. If one move misses or fails, all consecutive moves stop. All moves inherit the lowest priority of the move chain.
So using Superpower + Close Combat together will be effectively a 132BP move (although make sure to have cc before superpower so you dont drop attack), that eventually drops your attack by 1, defense by 2, special defense by 1. Using Acid Spray + Sludge Wave together in a set will allow you to hit for 121BP thanks to the special defense drop. To add some limitation on these potentially very powerful moves, they only work on STAB attacks, so prediction can be made more easily.
You could run 3 moves of the exact same typing also- for instance Primarina (random example) might use Scald, Surf, and Hydro Pump in a set and rely on a single slot for coverage. This would grant it access to a very hard-hitting 154 BP move that has a 30% chance to burn, but leaves the mon with almost no coverage. For some mons, this will be acceptable due to access to multiple high-damage STAB moves that can be combined together, but for instance the combination of Dazzling Gleam + Moonblast + Disarming Voice on Clefable does not provide as extraordinary results and it cant afford the slots.
Status moves will be used as a consecutive move, but the chain will stop after they are used. So if I use earth power with Palossand, with Shore Up as the next ground type move, earth power will do 50BP followed by the 50% heal from shore up. It is a sacrifice of damage to be granted a boost in utility and defensive presence, allowing defensive teams some options vs all the 150BP moves getting thrown around. But also using things like Acrobatics + Brave Bird + Roost would be a deadly combination- 126BP attack followed by 50% healing, although taking up 3 slots.
Also imagine the utility of being able to use things such as Knock Off + Parting Shot for instance, or hitting at the same time as taunting. This will lead to some bans of broken combinations (substitute for instance, destiny bond, and protective moves) but will make the meta a bit more interesting and less scattered imo
I agree with what Pipotchi said about the last idea not seeming related. Imo these are two separate ideas and you need to do what my playwriting teacher used to call "kill your babies" although I think darlings is used more widely than babies... meaning you need to get rid of an idea you like and think is good because it doesn't with the grander scheme of things.
Averaging the bp (+ a basically irrelevant 1 that exists only to make things more difficult to calc) seems rough. I feel like most mons might rather run a usual moveset. I suppose allowing 6 moveslots addresses this, but this again seems like a strange addition that isn't part of the core idea and I would rather see leave. Perhaps finding a way to make it worth the cost of having fewer moves to use would be wise.
As a final note I find oms work best when they have a simple idea that can be summed up in one line, and you just know basically how they work. It lowers the barrier for entry and prevents good ideas getting lost amongst fluff among other things.
Work on these things and I may throw a like your way!
Alright I'm going to kill some babies here for the sake of quality.
Hybrid Moves
Premise: Each Pokemon will fuse moves of the same type and category to make new unique moves.
Notes: Pokemon will start off with six moves. The extra two must be used for fusing. Moves must be the same type and category to fuse and the moves will automatically fuse so there's no move set with surf and scald separately anymore. When fused, the damages and accuracy are averaged, and the primary and secondary effects of the other moves are piled together. Pokemon can fuse 2-6 moves at once but keep in mind that your set would only have one move if all six moves are the same type and category.
An example of a great combination is Focus Blast and Aura Sphere to make a 100 damage special fighting move that will never miss, has a chance of lowering the foe's special defense, counts as a pulse move for Mega Launcher Pokemon, and a ballistic in the case of the ability Bullet Proof.
In the case where combining moves with different non-zero priorities like Roar with Follow Me, we keep the negative priority because doing it otherwise will cause many moves to fail or become too crazy (see comatose phasing in BH).
Status moves must share a similar target, so Swords Dance and Protect works, but Protect and Roar does not.
Z-Moves can not be used on move combinations. The combinations will have damages that aren't multiples of 5 unlike regular attacks so figuring out a z-move damage sounds either difficult or tedious.
Hidden Power won't combine with normal moves to change types. If that is difficult to code, Hidden Power won't combine with other moves.
Multi Hit moves will be averaged as how much damage they can possibly do and the secondary effects will be divided among each hit. A Ninetails using Headbutt + Tail Slap would bring about a 2-5 hit move with each hit doing 19.5 BP and having a 6% chance to flinch the target - not 30% per each hit.
Variable move damages like Magnitude, or Gyro Ball will have their current outputs averaged with their other attacks.
Blastoise gets a nice damage boost on Water Pulse with a chance to burn and confuse. Aura Sphere and Focus Blast will always hit at long last. Both moves are boosted by Mega Launcher allowing Blastoise to take down more of the meta.
With a U-Turn that will do 82.5 damage after technician and will do double damage each turn if it's stuck or the last Pokemon standing and a priority Bullet Punch with a chance to raise defense, Scizor has the power it was looking for maximize both its STAB moves.
Breloom has a nasty set here. Spore + Leech Seed to incapacitate and drain opponents. Priority Mach Punch + Drain Punch for quick Technician boosted recovery. Big Root allowing Breloom to heal more off of Leech Seed and Drain Punch.
Soft Boiled + Wish + Heal Bell allows Blissey to save turns and focus on being a tank or allowing for safer switches for other Pokemon. With Knock Off being combined with other moves like Payback or Pursuit, Blissey might be preferred over Chansey.
Potential Threats: Breloom with Spore or Mach Punch hybrids, Smeargle, there are so many. On the Radar: Sleep + Priority
Banlist: Combining Priority with moves that can flinch, OU Banlist.
What I've Changed from Before: Got rid of the perks for having less than four moves - it didn't fit here. No more +1 to move power, there's incentive enough to combine moves. Got rid of the accuracy drops for combining moves as no move will be too broken apart from Technician Bullet Punch + Iron Head. I kept the 6 moves because if Pokemon bring the standard four, then when moves combine automatically, they will have 3 or fewer to battle with.
Questions for the Community: Anything sounding too broken or on the radar? How should I handle the order that moves take place like Belly Drum + Recover? How should I handle failed moves like Protect+Swords Dance - I'm thinking having the Protect fail but the Swords Dance working. If you have any questions let me know or else check the syllabus.
Questions for the Community: Anything sounding too broken or on the radar? How should I handle the order that moves take place like Belly Drum + Recover? How should I handle failed moves like Protect+Swords Dance - I'm thinking having the Protect fail but the Swords Dance working. If you have any questions let me know or else check the syllabus.
I'd suggest having combined moves have the lowest priority - you've touched upon this but just make it clear. This makes stuff like Bullet Punch way less threatening which I think is safer. Have the moves trigger in the order they are in the moveset (for secondary effects or the example you mentioned), similarly to Linked - and also use that metagame's solution to what happens if the first move failed, though I can't remember what that is off the tip of my head. I like the sound of the meta though!
While this set is clearly completely useless VS any Electric immunities, once you've got those out of the way this thing becomes rather insane. The resulting electric move is a 90 BP never-missing special move that paralyses the opponent and then switches you out. With Zapdos's good scarf speed, this means you can just pivot around and paralyse every opponent. Dual Screens is a really obvious combo that's honestly only there because I couldn't think of anything else, though Defog/Roost sounds pretty ok.
On rain teams, you can remove Shock Wave to increase the power of it to 100 and open up another moveslot since Thunder makes it never miss in Rain anyway. If you do, try something like Defog/Roost/Tailwind.
ok seriously if you use this set you're a terrible person. how does one break a mon which quadruples its already good defenses in one turn? just add cleric support for maximum stall.
Magearna @ Electrium Z
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shift Gear
- Iron Defense
- Calm Mind
- Light Screen
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
Shift Gear + Iron Defense is great for boosting without dying, which is important for a set which looks to get 2 boosting moves to sweep. Calm Mind then gives Magearna some power while setting up a Light Screen, which when combined with the Iron Defense boost means you're now taking halved damage. After that it's just a matter of sweeping with Bolt Beam coverage. EVs are in no way optimized, I just used the spread showdown suggested because I don't know how to optimize EVs :P
Magearna @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Trick Room
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast
- Reflect/Light Screen/Charge Beam
Setting up Trick Room while at the same time boosting your special stats and getting a reflect or screen up (if Charge Beam wasn't chosen) seems pretty good for a sweep. Everyone who plays OU already knows how good the Thunderbolt/Ice Beam/All Out Pummeling coverage is for Magearna. Charge Beam lets you boost Special Attack even more while attacking but it's probably not worth it.
This thing is great honestly. Protect allows you to take no damage while lowering your opponent's Defense by 4 flipping stages. You can then either get off a return to smack the enemy really hard or use Pursuit to hit your defensively-crippled opponent on the switch. Even if they switched out on your Return, you can just use another Protect to repeat the process. Work Up is a niche option but it is sorta useful against more stally teams I guess. I never thought I'd see Ambipom become so good at breaking.
252 Atk Life Orb Ambipom Return vs. -4 248 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 153-182 (45.9 - 54.6%) -- 58.2% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Ambipom Pursuit vs. -4 248 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 161-191 (48.3 - 57.3%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO (This is if it's switching out)
As you can see, a return that can 2HKO Skarmory is pretty flippin powerful, especially when combined with Pursuit trapping.
Sharpedo and Weavile can run similar sets with Screech, Leer and potentially Swords Dance, with Sharpedo also using it to set up Speed Boost. In fact, those two are probably favoured over Ambipom but pom was the first thing I thought of.
On top of what I mentioned with these sets, Toxic + Venom Drench is a neat defensive move combo which can be used by pokemon such as Crobat, Toxapex (With TSpikes or Baneful Bunker too) or Nihilego (with TSpikes).
Healing Wish or Lunar Dance both go very nicely with Dual Screens.
Flash and Smokescreen is annoying as all hell.
Defog+Roost+Mirror Move allows stuff like Togekiss and Mandibuzz to remove hazards, keep healthy and potentially damage the opponent at the same time, though I don't really actually know how Mirror Move would work in this. Togekiss can even combine Mirror Move with Hustle to utilize physical moves more or Serene Grace to double effect chances of copied moves. Tailwind can also be added to this chain.
While this set is clearly completely useless VS any Electric immunities, once you've got those out of the way this thing becomes rather insane. The resulting electric move is a 90 BP never-missing special move that paralyses the opponent and then switches you out. With Zapdos's good scarf speed, this means you can just pivot around and paralyse every opponent. Dual Screens is a really obvious combo that's honestly only there because I couldn't think of anything else, though Defog/Roost sounds pretty ok.
On rain teams, you can remove Shock Wave to increase the power of it to 100 and open up another moveslot since Thunder makes it never miss in Rain anyway. If you do, try something like Defog/Roost/Tailwind.
ok seriously if you use this set you're a terrible person. how does one break a mon which quadruples its already good defenses in one turn? just add cleric support for maximum stall.
Magearna @ Electrium Z
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shift Gear
- Iron Defense
- Calm Mind
- Light Screen
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
Shift Gear + Iron Defense is great for boosting without dying, which is important for a set which looks to get 2 boosting moves to sweep. Calm Mind then gives Magearna some power while setting up a Light Screen, which when combined with the Iron Defense boost means you're now taking halved damage. After that it's just a matter of sweeping with Bolt Beam coverage. EVs are in no way optimized, I just used the spread showdown suggested because I don't know how to optimize EVs :P
Magearna @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Trick Room
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast
- Reflect/Light Screen/Charge Beam
Setting up Trick Room while at the same time boosting your special stats and getting a reflect or screen up (if Charge Beam wasn't chosen) seems pretty good for a sweep. Everyone who plays OU already knows how good the Thunderbolt/Ice Beam/All Out Pummeling coverage is for Magearna. Charge Beam lets you boost Special Attack even more while attacking but it's probably not worth it.
This thing is great honestly. Protect allows you to take no damage while lowering your opponent's Defense by 4 flipping stages. You can then either get off a return to smack the enemy really hard or use Pursuit to hit your defensively-crippled opponent on the switch. Even if they switched out on your Return, you can just use another Protect to repeat the process. Work Up is a niche option but it is sorta useful against more stally teams I guess. I never thought I'd see Ambipom become so good at breaking.
252 Atk Life Orb Ambipom Return vs. -4 248 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 153-182 (45.9 - 54.6%) -- 58.2% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Ambipom Pursuit vs. -4 248 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 161-191 (48.3 - 57.3%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO (This is if it's switching out)
As you can see, a return that can 2HKO Skarmory is pretty flippin powerful, especially when combined with Pursuit trapping.
Sharpedo and Weavile can run similar sets with Screech, Leer and potentially Swords Dance, with Sharpedo also using it to set up Speed Boost. In fact, those two are probably favoured over Ambipom but pom was the first thing I thought of.
On top of what I mentioned with these sets, Toxic + Venom Drench is a neat defensive move combo which can be used by pokemon such as Crobat, Toxapex (With TSpikes or Baneful Bunker too) or Nihilego (with TSpikes).
Healing Wish or Lunar Dance both go very nicely with Dual Screens.
Flash and Smokescreen is annoying as all hell.
Defog+Roost+Mirror Move allows stuff like Togekiss and Mandibuzz to remove hazards, keep healthy and potentially damage the opponent at the same time, though I don't really actually know how Mirror Move would work in this. Togekiss can even combine Mirror Move with Hustle to utilize physical moves more or Serene Grace to double effect chances of copied moves. Tailwind can also be added to this chain.
I'd suggest having combined moves have the lowest priority - you've touched upon this but just make it clear. This makes stuff like Bullet Punch way less threatening which I think is safer. Have the moves trigger in the order they are in the moveset (for secondary effects or the example you mentioned), similarly to Linked - and also use that metagame's solution to what happens if the first move failed, though I can't remember what that is off the tip of my head. I like the sound of the meta though!
These are great! I love the way people are dipping into the lesser used moves to make some horrifying sets. I think taunt + snatch or brick break + stronger fighting move combinations will be key here. Maybe status moves should have the same target so that Protect won't work with Tickle etc
While this set is clearly completely useless VS any Electric immunities, once you've got those out of the way this thing becomes rather insane. The resulting electric move is a 90 BP never-missing special move that paralyses the opponent and then switches you out. With Zapdos's good scarf speed, this means you can just pivot around and paralyse every opponent. Dual Screens is a really obvious combo that's honestly only there because I couldn't think of anything else, though Defog/Roost sounds pretty ok.
On rain teams, you can remove Shock Wave to increase the power of it to 100 and open up another moveslot since Thunder makes it never miss in Rain anyway. If you do, try something like Defog/Roost/Tailwind.
ok seriously if you use this set you're a terrible person. how does one break a mon which quadruples its already good defenses in one turn? just add cleric support for maximum stall.
Magearna @ Electrium Z
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shift Gear
- Iron Defense
- Calm Mind
- Light Screen
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
Shift Gear + Iron Defense is great for boosting without dying, which is important for a set which looks to get 2 boosting moves to sweep. Calm Mind then gives Magearna some power while setting up a Light Screen, which when combined with the Iron Defense boost means you're now taking halved damage. After that it's just a matter of sweeping with Bolt Beam coverage. EVs are in no way optimized, I just used the spread showdown suggested because I don't know how to optimize EVs :P
Magearna @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Trick Room
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast
- Reflect/Light Screen/Charge Beam
Setting up Trick Room while at the same time boosting your special stats and getting a reflect or screen up (if Charge Beam wasn't chosen) seems pretty good for a sweep. Everyone who plays OU already knows how good the Thunderbolt/Ice Beam/All Out Pummeling coverage is for Magearna. Charge Beam lets you boost Special Attack even more while attacking but it's probably not worth it.
This thing is great honestly. Protect allows you to take no damage while lowering your opponent's Defense by 4 flipping stages. You can then either get off a return to smack the enemy really hard or use Pursuit to hit your defensively-crippled opponent on the switch. Even if they switched out on your Return, you can just use another Protect to repeat the process. Work Up is a niche option but it is sorta useful against more stally teams I guess. I never thought I'd see Ambipom become so good at breaking.
252 Atk Life Orb Ambipom Return vs. -4 248 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 153-182 (45.9 - 54.6%) -- 58.2% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Ambipom Pursuit vs. -4 248 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 161-191 (48.3 - 57.3%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO (This is if it's switching out)
As you can see, a return that can 2HKO Skarmory is pretty flippin powerful, especially when combined with Pursuit trapping.
Sharpedo and Weavile can run similar sets with Screech, Leer and potentially Swords Dance, with Sharpedo also using it to set up Speed Boost. In fact, those two are probably favoured over Ambipom but pom was the first thing I thought of.
On top of what I mentioned with these sets, Toxic + Venom Drench is a neat defensive move combo which can be used by pokemon such as Crobat, Toxapex (With TSpikes or Baneful Bunker too) or Nihilego (with TSpikes).
Healing Wish or Lunar Dance both go very nicely with Dual Screens.
Flash and Smokescreen is annoying as all hell.
Defog+Roost+Mirror Move allows stuff like Togekiss and Mandibuzz to remove hazards, keep healthy and potentially damage the opponent at the same time, though I don't really actually know how Mirror Move would work in this. Togekiss can even combine Mirror Move with Hustle to utilize physical moves more or Serene Grace to double effect chances of copied moves. Tailwind can also be added to this chain.
Ok but the thing with Trick Room is: You are going to make it go back to normal if you use CM again.
That being said, Some powerful moves can be created with such simple things. You can take Hurrikane and Air Cutter to make a base 85 move with high crit ratio and 82.5 acc, or use Calm Mind + Cosmic Power or something like that.
Or you can just make this (With investments ofc)
Jirachi @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
- Iron Head
- Meteor Mash
- Zen Headbutt
- Heart Stamp
- Wish
- Protect
so you can get a free +2 atk and +1 speed if they stay in, +4 atk + 2 speed if they switch? while also getting a free sub? you can use protect/sub on any pokemon also. beyond broken
how does status moves work with attacks? it just says moves in the original post so i assume they work together. can i use something like:
Heracross-Mega @ Heracronite
Ability: Skill Link
- Arm Thrust
- Bulk Up
- Megahorn
- Knock Off
and have dark pulse reduce their spd by 2 before hitting?
i think you still have a bit too much going on with access to 6 moves. especially when ppl can just combine a couple moves that are op and then have 4 coverage moves for perfect coverage. or you can also just get mons using 6 coverage moves (like megacham for instance)
plus theres a lot of things in the meta that dont really make sense or need to be clarified. what if i combine a special and physical move? what order do the primary and secondary effects happen in? how do primary effects interact with multi-hit moves- can i use circle throw + arm thrust to phase the opponent 2-5 times? can i use focus punch and circle throw, what will the priority of the effects be? what happens if i use sky drop + fly at the same time, or solarbeam + giga drain? a lot of stuff is kinda confusing here. the doubling effect of an attack such as payback combined with knock off, would it average the damages and then double the damage, or would it double the damage of payback and then average the damage? and those are just a few examples
edit: not sure if i posted this before a post edit but a few of my questions are answered in the op already, altho some of the issues with stuff being broken still applies
the premise of z-mania is simple: effects of the base move are not erased, but stay true when used with a z-crystal. for example, aqua jet would normally just be a 100 bp hydro vortex. however, in z-mania, it's a 100 bp hydro vortex with +1 priority. the idea is to make attacking moves with secondary effects more viable. it creates more strategy and more complex movesets that can take advantage of this idea.
here are some examples:
z-aqua jet: 100 bp, water type, +1 priority
z-flame charge: 100 bp, fire type, +1 speed
z-iron head: 160 bp, steel type, 30% chance to flinch
z-psyshock: 160 bp, psychic type, hits off of the defense stat not the special defense stat
z-knock off: 120 bp, dark type, removes opponent's held item
z-volt switch: 140 bp, electric type, switches out the user
z-fake out: 100 bp, normal type, +3 priority and 100% flinch rate
z-dragon tail: 120 bp, dragon type, -6 priority and forces opponent out
and some potential abusers would be things like lucario, with z-extreme speed; z-flame charge darminatan; z-psyshock latios. things would have access to a lot of interesting quirks that could see the light of day like never before.
– potential bans and threats:
some threats would obviously be things with priority, as super-charged priority (all of them are stronger than base extreme speed) is super neat. i could see greninja being a little overwhelming, as 100 bp water type stab that is still strong outside of using it as a z-move could be a little too dangerous. extreme speed users like lucario and dragonite seem threatening as well, as +2 priority that has 160 base power is nothing to shrug off. i'm quite unsure how the metagame would play out since the pool of things to choose from is insanely versatile, but i could see the above being threats.
– questions for the community:
firstly, as z-moves can only be held by one pokemon on each team, would it be more viable to have it kept that way? or would it make more sense to have unlimited? or, would placing a limit like two to a team be a good idea? or is that too arbitrary? next, do you think that metagame is unique enough that new pokemon would be seen as threats or is it going to be too similar to regular ou? i'd not want it to just become every pokemon gets to use z-moves, as that is 100% not the point. the point is to explore new opportunities with the addition of base effects to spice up how normal things work. and, most importantly, do you have a better name than z-mania? @_@
the premise of z-mania is simple: effects of the base move are not erased, but stay true when used with a z-crystal. for example, aqua jet would normally just be a 100 bp hydro vortex. however, in z-mania, it's a 100 bp hydro vortex with +1 priority. the idea is to make attacking moves with secondary effects more viable. it creates more strategy and more complex movesets that can take advantage of this idea.
here are some examples:
z-aqua jet: 100 bp, water type, +1 priority
z-flame charge: 100 bp, fire type, +1 speed
z-iron head: 160 bp, steel type, 30% chance to flinch
z-psyshock: 160 bp, psychic type, hits off of the defense stat not the special defense stat
z-knock off: 120 bp, dark type, removes opponent's held item
z-volt switch: 140 bp, electric type, switches out the user
z-fake out: 100 bp, normal type, +3 priority and 100% flinch rate
z-dragon tail: 120 bp, dragon type, -6 priority and forces opponent out
and some potential abusers would be things like lucario, with z-extreme speed; z-flame charge darminatan; z-psyshock latios. things would have access to a lot of interesting quirks that could see the light of day like never before.
– potential bans and threats:
some threats would obviously be things with priority, as super-charged priority (all of them are stronger than base extreme speed) is super neat. i could see greninja being a little overwhelming, as 100 bp water type stab that is still strong outside of using it as a z-move could be a little too dangerous. extreme speed users like lucario and dragonite seem threatening as well, as +2 priority that has 160 base power is nothing to shrug off. i'm quite unsure how the metagame would play out since the pool of things to choose from is insanely versatile, but i could see the above being threats.
– questions for the community:
firstly, as z-moves can only be held by one pokemon on each team, would it be more viable to have it kept that way? or would it make more sense to have unlimited? or, would placing a limit like two to a team be a good idea? or is that too arbitrary? next, do you think that metagame is unique enough that new pokemon would be seen as threats or is it going to be too similar to regular ou? i'd not want it to just become every pokemon gets to use z-moves, as that is 100% not the point. the point is to explore new opportunities with the addition of base effects to spice up how normal things work. and, most importantly, do you have a better name than z-mania? @_@
Could be fun. Given that a Z move only lasts for one turn of a game, to make the meta play differently from OU, you may want to let more mons use Z-moves. 3 sounds like a nice number. This will lead to a very offensive metagame, but oh well.
Z-Hidden Power should have the same type as the Hidden Power type.
Mons wouldn't be able to use Z moves to escape move downsides any more -- bye-bye to Z-Outrage, Z-Fleur Cannon, and Z-Hyper Beam. As a particular thing, that one Webs team with Mega Pinsir looks scarier the more Z moves you give it.
so you can get a free +2 atk and +1 speed if they stay in, +4 atk + 2 speed if they switch? while also getting a free sub? you can use protect/sub on any pokemon also. beyond broken
how does status moves work with attacks? it just says moves in the original post so i assume they work together. can i use something like:
Heracross-Mega @ Heracronite
Ability: Skill Link
- Arm Thrust
- Bulk Up
- Megahorn
- Knock Off
and have dark pulse reduce their spd by 2 before hitting?
i think you still have a bit too much going on with access to 6 moves. especially when ppl can just combine 2 moves that are op and then have 4 coverage moves for perfect coverage. or you can also just get mons using 6 coverage moves (like megacham for instance)
plus theres a lot of things in the meta that dont really make sense or need to be clarified. what if i combine a special and physical move? what order do the primary and secondary effects happen in? how do primary effects interact with multi-hit moves- can i use circle throw + arm thrust to phase the opponent 2-5 times? can i use focus punch and circle throw, what will the priority of the effects be? what happens if i use sky drop + fly at the same time, or solarbeam + giga drain? a lot of stuff is kinda confusing here. the doubling effect of an attack such as payback combined with knock off, would it average the damages and then double the damage, or would it double the damage of payback and then average the damage? and those are just a few examples
Ok but the thing with Trick Room is: You are going to make it go back to normal if you use CM again.
That being said, Some powerful moves can be created with such simple things. You can take Hurrikane and Air Cutter to make a base 85 move with high crit ratio and 82.5 acc, or use Calm Mind + Cosmic Power or something like that.
Or you can just make this (With investments ofc)
Jirachi @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
- Iron Head
- Meteor Mash
- Zen Headbutt
- Heart Stamp
- Wish
- Protect
Could be fun. Given that a Z move only lasts for one turn of a game, to make the meta play differently from OU, you may want to let more mons use Z-moves. 3 sounds like a nice number. This will lead to a very offensive metagame, but oh well.
Z-Hidden Power should have the same type as the Hidden Power type.
Mons wouldn't be able to use Z moves to escape move downsides any more -- bye-bye to Z-Outrage, Z-Fleur Cannon, and Z-Hyper Beam. As a particular thing, that one Webs team with Mega Pinsir looks scarier the more Z moves you give it.
Letting the Pokemon use the Z-Move multiple times is an interesting idea but I feel that it would make priority Z-Moves a little too powerful, since they can just set up and spam +1/+2 priority moves with heightened power. Maybe I could see that and see what turns out to be broken? Not sure. Z-Hidden Power would be their type, yes, as it would retain the property of the base: having x-Type. Yes downside moves also retain their effects, as it would be unfair to not do that. :)
Letting the Pokemon use the Z-Move multiple times is an interesting idea but I feel that it would make priority Z-Moves a little too powerful, since they can just set up and spam +1/+2 priority moves with heightened power. Maybe I could see that and see what turns out to be broken? Not sure. Z-Hidden Power would be their type, yes, as it would retain the property of the base: having x-Type. Yes downside moves also retain their effects, as it would be unfair to not do that. :)
I think it should be that Z-moves can be used more than once per battle, but each individual Pokemon can only use a Z-move once. Think of it like how Mix and Mega works.
