Metagame Workshop

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Magikingdra it’s very important to note that banning weather abilities does not mean that you can’t use a Tyranitar with Sand Stream. It just means that the rest of the team won’t have access to it. Weather rocks would be something to look at way in the future, but they don’t seem like a huge issue at this moment.
 
how will banned ability work? will it be they wont transfer to other pokemon but still be legal or will that ability not be able to be used at all? the first is unlike most other metas and the second is quite troubling for certain pokemon as they them selves would become illegal if they don't have any other abilities the only one I can think of is shedinja which I think is already banned cause sturdy + shed + magic guard unbeatable
 
how will banned ability work? will it be they wont transfer to other pokemon but still be legal or will that ability not be able to be used at all? the first is unlike most other metas and the second is quite troubling for certain pokemon as they them selves would become illegal if they don't have any other abilities the only one I can think of is shedinja which I think is already banned cause sturdy + shed + magic guard unbeatable
Like I said, banned abilities means that they cannot be shared among the team. An Azumarill with Huge Power is perfectly legal; however, none of its teammates will receive Huge Power.

Also, check the OP for the metagame. Shedinja has always been banned.
 
Swapmons-
  • Metagame premise. Pokémon have EVs, IVs, Nature, Ability, and items swapped with the opposing mon. These are updated each turn, but boosts will be added to yourself.
  • Potential bans and threats. OU banlist.
  • Questions for the community. What should be banned, and does this look fun?
What does everything get swapped with?
DrPumpkinz the opponents stats.
 
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so basicly lowest evs possible lowest ivs worst nature for what you are worst ability sticky barb?
it seems pointless you will just see crappy mons cause actually having a good mon will actually hinder you so run slacking gigas archeops and then some crappy mons
 
I think we ought to look at something else in this metagame. Granted this will not be happening during day 1, I have a question for the community. Should we regulate weather as a whole? Every single Pokemon doubling its speed and being able to set the weather that permits that at the same time sounds like it’s even worse than the banned Speed Boost. Sand teams (the best weather archetype) effectively have every Pokemon double its speed at almost all times, and this is worrysome. I’d like to receive input on the community on this proposal: should ALL weather-inducing abilities become banned in Shared Power?

Before we answer this, let’s look at what these abilities are:
  • Sand Stream is the worst offender here, as Tyranitar (main weather setter) is already a terrific Pokemon, and Excadrill is absolutely no slouch. With supporters like Latios and Water-immune Pokemon (which all receive the Sand Rush boost) this playstyle seems borderline unbeatable. It can hold its own against all of the other weather archetypes. I propose banning Sand Stream from being shared in order for weather to remain viable yet a little more balanced. However, if we do this, I believe we will have to ban the other ones as well. Moving on:
  • Drizzle is another big threat in the metagame as this one not only provides the team with a speed-doubling ability in Swift Swim, but it boosts the power of Water STAB as well. While Pelipper and Kingdra are not nearly as good as Tyranitar and Excadrill, they still provide a scary amount of support to the rest of their teammates, as they can all simply switch in and trigger the weather and Speed boost as well.
  • Drought has the monster known as Mega Charizard Y providing Drought support once it Mega Evolves. While the selection of Chlorophyll users isn’t the most elite, they still provide the rest of the team (and Charizard Y itself, which is terrifying) with the doubled Speed. Water immunities also help Drought team win the weather war with Drizzle teams. Lastly:
  • Snow Warning may seem a little dumb compared to all the other ones I mentioned because of how underwhelming Hail is as a whole, but Hail has something over all the other weathers out there that’s pretty broken, and that is Aurora Veil. Alolan Ninetales blesses the entire team with Aurora Veil support, and Alolan Sandslash provides the Speed boost. Aurora Veil is a very dangerous move in this meta as it’s centralized on offense, so I believe Snow Warning is on the same level as the previous abilities are mentioned.
So again, my question is whether we should ban/suspect test weather abilities as a whole so that the entire team does not have access to them. This would mean that every team could still have the ability that boosts the speed stat in weather, but they will have to depend on the sole setter being conserved, making it a much less apparent threat in the metagame. I do not want this to turn into a metagame where weather is the only viable playstyle or a centralizing one. Let me know what you think!
I vote no ban until actual playtesting can take place. Rain's main buffs are stopped almost entirely by water absorb/storm drain, sand force doesn't buff to the extent that rain/sun do and requires running a dedicated mon just for that, and hail... isn't bad, but is nowhere near as good as the other 3 even with Aurora Veil. Also, in order for teams to maintain the speed buff, switching is required fairly often. Cloud nine is another option for invalidating weather teams flat out, and while the donors aren't great, Altaria can be held in standard form until a point in the match where pixilate would be more beneficial, or just left as is while other mons put in the work. There's also Drampa, who's not great in standard but has a solid enough movepool and stat spread to be made useful with the right team support in this meta. While the offensive merits of these teams would absolutely make them unstoppable in OU, pretty much everything in this meta is broken on paper, and I'm not confident that weather will be the biggest issue. On the topic of being more OP than Speed Boost, weather teams have exploitable weaknesses and require a specific set of mons to work properly, which differentiates weather setting abilities from ones like Huge Power/Speed Boost, which are honestly no brainers for practically any offensive team. It's definitely something to be aware of, but I'd give it some time before making any calls.
 

Mintly

formerly Spook
is an Artist
Another thing with weather, is that its easy to unset as soon as the setter is down for the count, or you can use a Dry Skin pokemon to counter rain.

another thing id like to say:

Add Rain Dish for Defensive
Supporters:

Receivers:


Rain Dish would be helpful on most rain teams, with Rain Dish + Leftovers + Dry Skin giving it an amazing rain recovery. Blastoise donating Rain Dish before it Mega Evolves gives it support being in the back, until it Megas and gives Mega Launcher instead. Shiinotic's other abilities are Illuminate(Does Nothing) and Effect Spore(Kinda usefull i guess?) plus it getting Spore + Strength Sap is a big plus. Tentacruel has Clear Body, which is very useful, but it can also run Rain Dish for stall teams. as for the receivers? Mostly stall mons that would benefit from recovery, but also Hydreigon/Koko/Skarmory also get Recoil moves, which are useful when you have recovery aside from leftovers.
 
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From what I understand, Hakuunite's intention for Shared Power was that abilities would remain in effect regardless of whether or not the donor has fainted, so stopping weather isn't quite that easy, but I maintain my stance that it honestly doesn't seem (at least in context) to be any more overwhelming than the rest of the meta inherently is.
 

Mintly

formerly Spook
is an Artist
From what I understand, Hakuunite's intention for Shared Power was that abilities would remain in effect regardless of whether or not the donor has fainted, so stopping weather isn't quite that easy, but I maintain my stance that it honestly doesn't seem (at least in context) to be any more overwhelming than the rest of the meta inherently is.
what i meant was if we banned abilities for sharing.
 
what i meant was if we banned abilities for sharing.
Oh, gotcha. Honestly I don't think weather itself will be a problem, rather it's Swift Swim/Sand Rush/Chlorophyll that take it over the edge. We could always try implementing Gen 5's Swift Swim + Drizzle kinda ban. But again, I'm personally in favour of leaving things as open ended as possible during the early days of any meta so...

Plus, weather teams strength's are all double edged swords here. You're running rain? Cool. But your opponent has a Swift Swim mon in the bank just for this occasion, and didn't need to dedicate all of the other team slots to rain support, meaning their Swift Swim mon is capable of overpowering yours. Or, oh no, this Stakataka has Water Absorb and has successfully set up TR, meaning Swift Swim dooms your entire team to eating 100+ BP STAB moves. Just, lots of room for exploitation tbh.
 

Mintly

formerly Spook
is an Artist
Oh, gotcha. Honestly I don't think weather itself will be a problem, rather it's Swift Swim/Sand Rush/Chlorophyll that take it over the edge. We could always try implementing Gen 5's Swift Swim + Drizzle kinda ban. But again, I'm personally in favour of leaving things as open ended as possible during the early days of any meta so...

Plus, weather teams strength's are all double edged swords here. You're running rain? Cool. But your opponent has a Swift Swim mon in the bank just for this occasion, and didn't need to dedicate all of the other team slots to rain support, meaning their Swift Swim mon is capable of overpowering yours. Or, oh no, this Stakataka has Water Absorb and has successfully set up TR, meaning Swift Swim dooms your entire team to eating 100+ BP STAB moves. Just, lots of room for exploitation tbh.
True, plus, its also possible to be a whole battle with each team setting up one weather after another, each switching out just so they can get a Swift Swim/Chloro/Slush Rush/Sand Rush boost.
 
Yeah I think the meta will balance itself with regards to weather just based on the fact that weather v weather sounds really goofy. I imagine weather being extremely effective against a lot of teams but sand has a rough time against any team with levitate, sun can't deal with flash fire very well and water gets shut down pretty hard by water absorb/storm drain, or even dry skin. Those might be sort of niche abilities compared to the other options in the meta, but weather teams built without those abilities in mind are basically just rolling the dice any time they enter a match, meaning I doubt people will want to use them consistently. I think I mentioned this already, but chlorophyll mons are also exacerbating one of their primary weaknesses by being included in sun teams as well, while they may have the advantage of dealing with fire's water weakness, they get nailed by ice type coverage and the nature of weather v weather means the switches are likely to be fairly predictable. (I guess you could run water absorb + thick fat on a sun team? Maybe?)

Also, I think it's a more worthwhile effort to focus on specific weather abusers instead of weather itself. As far as Sand Rush/Swift Swim donors go, nothing in the game comes close to Excadrill/MegaPert levels of efficiency. In fact, nearly every other Swift Swim mon is currently PU with a few exceptions, while literally every other Sand Rush user is. Using the same argument that was made earlier where someone justified the hypothetical plus buff by saying that all of it's donors were so bad that it meant you were basically playing with 5 mons, if those abilities end up being a problem, banning Excadrill/MegaPert would be a good way to keep weather balanced without having to ban weather setters.

Similarly, if hail is somehow broken due to Aurora Veil, I think the best option would just be to ban Aurora Veil, especially considering that since it has 0 use outside of hail, there's not really any collateral damage. (Not that I can see this happening because hail is... the least threatening weather even with Aurora Veil but still)

One last thing, weather teams face a dilemma wherein they have to choose between having maximum speed in order to capitalize on rush/swim, and running lower speed in order to get weather up turn 1 against other weather teams. Choose the former and you're better off against non weather teams, but you've basically given your opponents lead in weather v weather matchups a free turn. Whereas if you choose the latter, you get the jump turn 1 on other weather teams, but risk being outrun by scarfers depending on your swift swim mons natural speed stat.

Tyranitar may be the only weather setter worth suspecting, as it maintains a fairly unique speed tier among weather setters (and among usable mons in general) which leaves it slow enough to get weather up against stuff like Pelipper, ZardY or Ninetales, yet fast enough to outrun most common mons after the Sand Rush boost. While opposing weather setters have a choice of either staying in and probably dying, or eating an adaptability pursuit on the way out and... probably dying. Even then though, I'm not sure if TTar would end up being overpowered in the overall context of the meta or if it just has the advantage in weather matchups.

Anyway I really just wanna play this meta already and stop theorymon'ing.
 

Mintly

formerly Spook
is an Artist
Anyway I really just wanna play this meta already and stop theorymon'ing.
i am trying to get this thing up as soon as possible, but as i think ive said before im not very good with coding metagames, but your weather statement brings up some good points. hell, id use hail teams just to disrupt other weather teams
 
Has anyone brought up Mold Breaker yet? Because there goes your Unaware, immunity Abilities, Filter/Rock Head/Prism Armor, etc...

Call it the kid who's still burned from the Weather Wars, but weather Abilities should absolutely not pass to the entire team. Passing the Speed-boosting Abilities will be bad enough (and should definitely be looked at upon the metagame becoming playable), but as it stands the metagame will be weather spam and anything else will be far far inferior.
 

Mintly

formerly Spook
is an Artist
Has anyone brought up Mold Breaker yet? Because there goes your Unaware, immunity Abilities, Filter/Rock Head/Prism Armor, etc...

Call it the kid who's still burned from the Weather Wars, but weather Abilities should absolutely not pass to the entire team. Passing the Speed-boosting Abilities will be bad enough (and should definitely be looked at upon the metagame becoming playable), but as it stands the metagame will be weather spam and anything else will be far far inferior.
Mold Breaker along with Teravolt/Turboblaze are unpassable.
 
Thoughts on guts/flare boost+ quick feet? a hard stop to stall if you get burned you just go to town with fascade
also thoughts on moxie/soul heart+beast boost+ maybe technition? with something stupid like stored power/power trip? you get a boost from technician until your 3ed boost at which case it only takes one kill to be at 60bp which would be boosted to 90 with one kill after which it is boosted to 100 bp if you get another kill you get 140 which is starting to hurt and you could always calm mind up the first time. I love coming up with crappy gimics. But here is a real scary one skill link + technician?
 
I think Skill Link + Tech's scariest aspect is that it bypasses multiscale, but I'm not sure it's that much scarier than any high BP move + Sheer Force/Tough Claws. Most multi hit moves also lack the criteria to be boosted by any of the other offensive abilities and the distribution of them isn't great. Could be good but I think it's scarier on paper than it will be in practice.

Quick Feet rules, and isn't a bad answer for offensive teams to deal with weather sweepers without having to run specific weather counters (base 115 mons outrun Swampert-mega after the Quick Feet boost) though faster Swift Swim mons will still bypass this. Unfortunately it's distribution is basically Jolteon/Ursaring/Granbull. Jolteon (Quick Feet Pivot), Milotic (Multi Scale Donor and Shuffler/Wall), Gliscor (Poison Heal) and Conkeldurr (Guts) could be the start of a cool team though. Even just Guts + Poison Heal is already a really good combo.

Also, while I was looking up all of the status boosting abilities, I realized that if standard Pidgeot runs Tangled Feet before it goes Mega, Dragon types gain a pretty substantial buff, in that any attempts to stop Outrage spam with fairy types gives them a huge buff to evasion. (All moves essentially become Dynamic Punch, or worse). The other Tangled Feet users aren't great, but it's a thought.

Stored Power + Moxie + Soul Heart + Beast Boost + Tech sounds like too much effort for too little power, and gets shut down by any Unaware team with a dark type. Your team also lacks power until actually getting a kill since you only really have room for 2 more mons, which is underwhelming in a meta where with the right support, a pokemon can have 300~ BP moves off the bat.


Another thing with weather, is that its easy to unset as soon as the setter is down for the count, or you can use a Dry Skin pokemon to counter rain.

another thing id like to say:

Add Rain Dish for Defensive
Supporters:

Receivers:


Rain Dish would be helpful on most rain teams, with Rain Dish + Leftovers + Dry Skin giving it an amazing rain recovery. Blastoise donating Rain Dish before it Mega Evolves gives it support being in the back, until it Megas and gives Mega Launcher instead. Shiinotic's other abilities are Illuminate(Does Nothing) and Effect Spore(Kinda usefull i guess?) plus it getting Spore + Strength Sap is a big plus. Tentacruel has Clear Body, which is very useful, but it can also run Rain Dish for stall teams. as for the receivers? Mostly stall mons that would benefit from recovery, but also Hydreigon/Koko/Skarmory also get Recoil moves, which are useful when you have recovery aside from leftovers.
Should add Ferrothorn to the list of receivers, it's inability to receive Poison Heal/Lack of natural recovery, and already excellent synergy with rain teams make it a pretty ideal fit.
 
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Wanted to try my hand at building a Shared Power Team around Sheer Force Nidoking, very excited for this meta and trying to build some quality teams, so any tips or criticisms would be well appreciated :toast:

Nidoking @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Earth Power
- Sludge Wave
- Ice Beam
- Flamethrower

Volcanion @ Choice Specs
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Steam Eruption
- Fire Blast
- Sludge Wave
- Earth Power

Latios @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt
- Trick

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Stored Power/Fire Blast
- Soft-Boiled
- Calm Mind

Dragonite @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fly
- Earthquake
- Extreme Speed
- Dragon Dance

Mamoswine @ Life Orb
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Icicle Crash
- Ice Shard
- Superpower/Stealth Rock

- I began the team with Life Orb Nidoking with four attacks to maximize power and ability to switch between coverage moves.
- Following Nidoking, I felt Volcanion would be good to support Nidoking and the team by providing a water immunity to cover Nidoking's weaknesses, while also easing the team's matchup against rain teams, which will no doubt be powerful in the upcoming meta. In addition, Volcanion can abuse Sheer Force it receives from Nidoking with all it's moves having added effects, making it a strong wallbreaker with specs.
- Latios was my next addition to the team, as it provides the luxury of a ground immunity to both Nidoking and Volcanion, easing up pressure from a common weakness for the two pokemon. Levitate also provides Volcanion and Nidoking an immunity to Sticky Webs and Spikes. Latios also provides crucial speed control to the team with Choice Scarf, and can abuse Sheer Force through Psychic and Thunderbolt, while also being able to cripple walls with Trick.
- Clefable was my next choice due to the blanket support it provides to the team through Magic Guard, blocking any damage from hazards altogether. For set, I wanted to abuse Clefable's bulk with a CM + Stored Power set to maximize power - Fire Blast could also be a substitute over Stored Power.
- Dragonite and Clefable support each other well - Clefable's Magic Guard allows Dragonite to preserve it's multiscale under any circumstance, and Multiscale Dragonite adds to Clefable's already hearty bulk. Multiscale also supports the team by allowing them to take an extra hit at full health. Flyinium Z + Dragon Dance allows Dragonite to abuse it's guaranteed setup and hit hard with a Flying type nuke, and provides priority to the team through Extremespeed.
- Mamoswine was my final blanket answer to provide a physical wallbreaking presence to the team, with good attack and priority. Mamoswine provides support by softening the blow of an ice weakness to Dragonite, Latios and Nidoking with Thick fat, but definitely appreciates the support from the team with Multiscale, Magic Guard for hazards, Water Absorb, and Sheer Force abuse through Icicle Crash. I chose Superpower for immediate coverage and power, but not every team may have a Magic Guard pokemon, so through practice Stealth Rock might be a better fourth move to provide hazards against the opposing team.

Shoutout Haakunite for the idea of a Dragonite + Clefable core, and supporting my interest in this meta!
 
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thoughts on whimsicott+ pidgeot? prankster no guard grass whistle?
Also if you wanted an unkillable pokemon what about using an oblivious mon with pyuku

Also is this ever going to actually be a meta cause this is so awesome I want it to be real
 

Mintly

formerly Spook
is an Artist
I’m happy you ask that, and I’m even happier to announce that Shared Power has been approved by both moderators! Expect a special new thread very soon. :D
AWESOME! Update on my stuff: i need help but im too stubborn to ask, lmao

thoughts on whimsicott+ pidgeot? prankster no guard grass whistle?
Also if you wanted an unkillable pokemon what about using an oblivious mon with pyuku
The problem with prankster is that dark types block it, and its easy enough to kill with a simple sludge bomb.
 
Don't forget that prankster is stopped by Dazzling/Queenly Majesty, which are good enough abilities that despite their donor's relative lack of strength, I can see them getting decent use on offense teams. No Guard Sleep might end up being best used by mons that just have great natural speed.

I’m happy you ask that, and I’m even happier to announce that Shared Power has been approved by both moderators! Expect a special new thread very soon. :D
Congrats! I'm looking forward to letting this thread get back to it's intended purpose lol
 
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