Machoke [QC 1/3]

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Jisoo

two slow dancers last ones out
is a Pre-Contributoris a defending SPL Champion

[OVERVIEW]
  • Has a niche in NU as a fighting type with the move dynamic punch and defensive capabilities
  • Decent bulk with eviolite allows it to be somewhat tanky and lets it switch into weaker attacks
  • Outclassed by Gurdurr and other bulky fighting types like Hariyama
  • Low speed and not many coverage options allow it to be taken advantage of easily
[SET]
name: Bulky Attacker
move 1: Dynamic Punch
move 2: Knock Off
move 3: Rest
move 4: Sleep Talk
item: Eviolite
ability: No Guard
nature: Careful
evs: 252 HP / 212 SpD / 44 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

  • Dynamic Punch is a spammable move that has a 100% chance to confuse, which can be very powerful and game changing because confusion lets Machoke have free turns if they switch to rid of the confusion which is punishable by clicking Knock Off or hurt themselves in confusion, letting Machoke potentially heal or switch out somewhat safely.
  • Knock Off allows Machoke to hit Ghost types and lets it Knock Off items, crippling Pokemon that are reliant on their item
  • Rest is so that Machoke can heal himself so it is able to function better as a defensive Pokemon
  • Sleep Talk is so that Machoke is not completely taken advantage of while it is asleep, with the possibility of using Dynamic Punch without using any of its meager PP
Set Details
=========
  • 252 EV's in HP allow Machoke to be very bulky and lets it switch into weaker attacks more easily
  • 216 Special Defense EV's let Machoke switch into hard-to-check pokemon such as special Samurott, Magmortar and Pyroar.
  • 44 Speed EV's let Machoke outspeed Pokemon such as Piloswine and Mega Audino which is important because confusing them so have trouble setting up hazards and Calm Minds, respectively, is very important
  • 252 Defense EV's is an option that lets Machoke switch into Pokemon such as Hitmonchan, Hariyama, and Tauros easier, albeit Physically Defensive Machoke gets 2HKO'd by Samurott Hydro Pump and can't check the things the Specially Defensive set did.
Usage Tips
========

  • Keeping Machoke healthy with Rest is ideal so that it can repeatedly switch in to attacks
  • If possible, try to keep Machoke's Eviolite on it because it is significantly less bulky without its eviolite
  • You should aim to fire off as many Dynamic Punches as possible if your opponent doesn't have any resists to it, as it is a strong move with a fantastic effect, but do not overuse it, as it has an extremely low PP.
  • Being able to get it in and click Knock Off vs. the opponent is great because Pokemon definitely do not function as well without their item
  • Use Rest whenever Machoke is at low health so that it stays healthy throughout the match. Follow up with Sleep Talk to maximize Machoke's potential while asleep.
  • Switching Machoke in against weaker physical attackers like Barbaracle without a boost and against Dark and Rock types like Shiftry is best because Machoke takes those types of moves with ease.

Team Options
========

  • Pokemon that appreciate Pokemon like Steelix and Rhydon being removed like Swellow greatly appreciate Machoke's ability to wipe out these Pokemon with ease.
  • Ghost types like Rotom are good with machoke because of defensive synergy and Rotom can take out the pesky Flying types like Pelipper and Scyther.
  • Dark Types like Skuntank pair along well with Machoke because they can beat things that can switch into Machoke with ease like Colbur Musharna
  • Pairing Machoke along with a strong wallbreaker like Tauros is a good option because Machoke appreciates faster offensive threats being removed.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
========
  • A bulk up set could work with Machoke because of its decent bulk with Eviolite letting it set up versus a decent amount of Pokemon, but is outclassed by Gurdurr in pretty much every way.
  • A Guts purely offensive set can benefit Machoke because it can function as a Will-O-Wisp or Scald switch in and Punish the opponent, but Guts is outdone by stronger Guts attackers like Hariyama and Gurdurr.
  • Bullet Punch is an option that can be used to pick off weakened foes, but is not a STAB move and very weak
  • Rock Slide is an option that hits Scyther and Pelipper super-effectively, but you are giving up an important moveslot, and Machoke does not have a lot of flexibility in its moveset.
Checks and Counters
========

**Gourgeist and Bulky Rotom**: Gourgeist and Colbur Berry Rotom can easily take a Knock Off and are immune to Dynamic Punch, and Gourgeist can just Will-O-Wisp and Leech Seed it while Rotom can just Wisp it and proceed to do a lot of damage with Hex
**Bulky Psychic Types**: Bulky Psychic types like Xatu and Musharna that do not take a lot from Knock Off can switch in to Machoke with easy and deal huge damage with Psychic
**Bulky Flying Types**: Bulky Flying types like Scyther, Charizard, and Mantine laugh at Machoke's not very effective moves and can even set up vs. Machoke
**Poison Types**: Garbodor, Vileplume and Weezing can all take advantage of Machoke's not being able to deal big damage, the former and latter being able to set up Toxic Spikes against it, and Vileplume can be annoying with Effect Spore

Ready for QC I think, but I don't know if the C&C section is up to snuff
erisia
 
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Take Azelfie

More flags more fun
This was on the previous analysis and I also believe that you should add 44 Spe the set since it outpaces uninvested base 50's like Piloswine, Aggron, and Piloswine. This is nice for preventing rocks from getting up in case they choose to sacrifice their Pokemon or just outspeed them and pull off a rest if you are low.
 

Jisoo

two slow dancers last ones out
is a Pre-Contributoris a defending SPL Champion
This was on the previous analysis and I also believe that you should add 44 Spe the set since it outpaces uninvested base 50's like Piloswine, Aggron, and Piloswine. This is nice for preventing rocks from getting up in case they choose to sacrifice their Pokemon or just outspeed them and pull off a rest if you are low.
Aggron runs 252 Adamant and Piloswine runs 36 speed (enough to outspeed 44 machoke), and I don't want to give up too much bulk
also those 2 arent even that important to outspeed o.o
 
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erisia

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I'm gonna do a proper post tomorrow when it's not 1am in the morning but adapting the previous skeleton probably wasn't the best idea. That said this is an improvement. So just some general pointers before I properly QC this. Do some calcs and find a spread that tanks both relevant physical and special hits. Explain how you can build a team around the free turns and switches that Dynamic Punch forces. Note that Sleep Talk can call Dynamic Punch even when it's out of PP, so RestTalk helps mitigate PP issues somewhat.

Hootie and Blast have a look at this imo.
 
Yeah I run 248 HP / 216 SpD / 44 Spe.

I found Sp.D to be a lot more useful because it means you can face tank a lot of really hard to wall things like pyroar, samurott, and magmortar. The speed is really needed because being able to out speed stuff like piloswine and audino and throw off a confusion because they can set hazards/ CM is really critical. Tbh i'd even consider running 84 speed jsut to out speed base 55's too, but then you have issues with getting 2hko'd by samurott hydro so it's kinda a toss up there. but the speed is super nice.
 

erisia

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is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Yeah I run 248 HP / 216 SpD / 44 Spe.

I found Sp.D to be a lot more useful because it means you can face tank a lot of really hard to wall things like pyroar, samurott, and magmortar. The speed is really needed because being able to out speed stuff like piloswine and audino and throw off a confusion because they can set hazards/ CM is really critical. Tbh i'd even consider running 84 speed jsut to out speed base 55's too, but then you have issues with getting 2hko'd by samurott hydro so it's kinda a toss up there. but the speed is super nice.
But why is this preferable to avoiding the 2HKO from things like Hitmonchan, Hariyama, and Tauros? Honestly I think Machoke's EVs can go either way depending on whether the team needs a physical tank or a special one. SpD is nice for covering up weaknesses to an extent but Def is also nice because it lets Machoke do better against foes that take more damage from confusion; i.e. those with a high Attack stat. Splitting the EVs doesn't really help because then you end up with things like Hariyama and Pyroar both having 60% chances to 2HKO after SR, which isn't as helpful as blocking one or the other.
 
I don't disagree Def isn't that bad, but there are two main reasons I think Sp.D is generally a lot better or at least the main set. One is that it's a lot easier to naturally have normal/ fighting resists on teams given how common things like Mesprit, Garbodor, and Steelix are, whereas you generally have to go out of your way more to fit in water/ fire resists. The second big reason is that Tauros with Zen Headbutt will 2hko Machoke 60% of the time, 98% of the time with rocks out. And with the rise of guts/ CB Hariyama you'll have to scout the sets more before you can safely leave in Machoke vs Hariyama.

Sp.D sets just have a lot less variables so it's a lot more consistent.
 

erisia

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I'm fine with SpD being the main set but phys def should definitely be mentioned in Set Details and the points expressed in your post should be made there.

For a more detailed QC check, this seems contradictory in places as you suggest Machoke is good at switching into Dark-types but hates losing its Eviolite via Knock Off (a big flaw compared to fully evolved Fighting-types like Poliwrath, and even compared to AV users like Hariyama and Hitmonchan). Just change the overview to mention that Machoke's bulk gives it lots of opportunities to switch in against weaker attacks in general such as Swellow's Boomburst.

Some of your comments are also very generic: "Dynamic Punch is a spammable move that has a 100% chance to confuse, which can be very powerful and game changing" begs the question how specifically is this confusion game changing. I.e. it lets Machoke generate free turns as they either switch to remove confusion (which you can punish with Knock Off) or as they hit themselves (giving Machoke a chance to heal up or bring in a teammate safely). This really needs to be emphasised in Team Options as well; Machoke is basically a Fighting-type defensive pivot, so frail wallbreakers and setup sweepers (give examples that synergise well) really appreciate this support.

"Electric types like Rotom are good with machoke because of defensive synergy": This isn't true. Rotom has good synergy, but that's because it's a Ghost-type. Change this section to Ghost- and Dark-types imo (as they remove Psychic- and Ghost-types that can tank Dynamic Punch + Knock Off such as Colbur Musharna and Gourgeist-XL), and give good examples of these.

"Pairing Machoke along with a strong wallbreaker like Tauros is a good option because Machoke appreciates faster offensive threats being removed": This sentence is also misleading, the latter part implies that Machoke appreciates faster teammates while the former emphasises power. I'm not sure this even needs to be a section.

In other options emphasise that Bulk Up and Guts sets face huge competition from Gurdurr due to its generally better stats and movepool.

Bulky Ghost-types (such as Colbur Gourgeist-XL and bulky Colbur Rotom) should definitely get a section here as they don't worry about Dynamic Punch at all and can tank Knock Off quite easily before inflicting a burn (giving a teammate a free switch as Machoke Rests) or using a recovery move. This should actually be the first section and I'm surprised you didn't include it.

Implement this in 72 hours and tag me again.
 

erisia

Innovative new design!
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Should have 212 SpD EVs in the set. I'm not totally satified with this but I think most of my problems with it would be fixed after it's written up and we're running out of time.



QC 1/3
 
Overview

  • Has a niche in NU as a fighting type with the move dynamic punch and defensive capabilities
Further specify that Dynamic Punch is the main selling point of using Machoke over fighting types with similar dfensive capability such as Gurdurr or even Yama.

I don't like this. If Machoke were totally outclassed then we wouldn't be giving it an analysis. Just change this to something like "faces competition as a bulky fighting type from pokemon such as Gurdurr and Hariyama. However, access to rest talk and dynamic punch along with higher sp.def than gurdurr gives it a niche."
  • Low speed and not many coverage options allow it to be taken advantage of easily
    .
I wouldn't say Machoke has poor coverages options considering access to Pjab eq all elemental punches knock off bullet punch etc so take that point out. In fact, i'd even go as far to say it has an excellent movepool.

  • In general this overview needs to be expanded. Touch on the fact that Machoke can break through traditional fighting-type checks w confusion + coverage moves, it can act as an emergency check to a myriad of threats due to great mixed bulk. Also note in terms of negatives, it cannot really afford to invest into its attack stat, so it is weaker than gurdurr hariayama, chan etc.
Moves:

  • Knock Off allows Machoke to hit Ghost types and lets it Knock Off items, crippling Pokemon that are reliant on their item
This is vague. Mention specific Ghosts, and which pokemon get crippled by losing their item. The casual reader likely doesn't know this.
  • Rest is so that Machoke can heal himself so it is able to function better as a defensive Pokemon
nitpicky but the phrasing here is weird. Just say something along the lines of "rest increases Machokes longevity throughout a battle, and properly allows it to check the pokemon it needs to throughout the battle."

Set Details:
  • 252 EV's in HP allow Machoke to be very bulky and lets it switch into weaker attacks more easily
This is again vague. Change wording to smth like "Maximum HP investment allow for Machoke to be as bulky as possible".
  • 216 Special Defense EV's let Machoke switch into hard-to-check pokemon such as special Samurott, Magmortar and Pyroar.
Typically you're not going to want to switch machoke into huge special attackers like this considering some have a chance to 2hko Machoke after rocks or do 2hko with any prior damage. Just say " 216 Special Defense EV's allow for machoke to better combat strong special attackers such as samurott, magmortar, and pyroar. 44 Speed EV's let Machoke outspeed Pokemon such as Piloswine and Mega Audino which is important because confusing them so have trouble setting up hazards and Calm Minds, respectively, is very important
  • 44 Speed EV's let Machoke outspeed Pokemon such as Piloswine and Mega Audino which is important because confusing them so have trouble setting up hazards and Calm Minds, respectively, is very important
Replace Piloswine with Regirock. Pilo always runs some speed.

Usage Tips:
  • Keeping Machoke healthy with Rest is ideal so that it can repeatedly switch in to attacks
Mention to beware of mindlessly clicking rest as sleep talk is unreliable.
  • Being able to get it in and click Knock Off vs. the opponent is great because Pokemon definitely do not function as well without their item
Be specific towards which pokemon don't like having their item knocked off. Also, give examples of when it is more optimal to click Dynamic Punch (most of the time) vs. when you should predict with Knock Off. Machoke is played differently than other fighters in terms of prediction given how spammable d-punch is, so make sure it is very clear to the reader when they should choose knock vs dynamic punch.
  • Use Rest whenever Machoke is at low health so that it stays healthy throughout the match. Follow up with Sleep Talk to maximize Machoke's potential while asleep.
Delete the portion about rest, it's fluff and you already talk about rest in a different portion of the tips. When discussing sleep talk just say that it allows machoke to not be set up fodder while asleep and somewhat still function in its role effectively.
  • Switching Machoke in against weaker physical attackers like Barbaracle without a boost and against Dark and Rock types like Shiftry is best because Machoke takes those types of moves with ease.
Mention other weak phys. attackers and give an actual example or two of rock-types.

Team Options:
  • Pokemon that appreciate Pokemon like Steelix and Rhydon being removed like Swellow greatly appreciate Machoke's ability to wipe out these Pokemon with ease.
Specify that it is all bulky rock and steel types, give more example. give another example besides swellow as well. Examples are fun all the cool kids are giving them.
  • Ghost types like Rotom are good with machoke because of defensive synergy and Rotom can take out the pesky Flying types like Pelipper and Scyther.
Also mention that rotom can smack annoying psychics such as mesprit and xatu.

OO:
  • A bulk up set could work with Machoke because of its decent bulk with Eviolite letting it set up versus a decent amount of Pokemon, but is outclassed by Gurdurr in pretty much every way.
Every way besides dynamic punch being insane and machoke having higher sp.def which is actually very important for bulk up users. mention this.
  • Ice Punch and EQ deserve mentions here especially if we are giving Rock Slide one. Actually, just condense these three into one point where you bring up an AOA Machoke set that can run any 2 of these three coverage move alongisde d-punch and knock. Be sure to list what ice punch and eq hit (vile, garb respectively), and Why this set is outclassed by the main set.
C&C:
  • **Bulky Flying Types**: Bulky Flying types like Scyther, Charizard, and Mantine laugh at Machoke's not very effective moves and can even set up vs. Machoke
Mention that they must fear switching into rock slide though.
  • **Poison Types**: Garbodor, Vileplume and Weezing can all take advantage of Machoke's not being able to deal big damage, the former and latter being able to set up Toxic Spikes against it, and Vileplume can be annoying with Effect Spore
Mention that besides weezing who hates getting its item knocked off, vile and garb have to beware of coverage moves.

Do all of this and i'll stamp QC 2/3.

Watchog, I think you have potential as a c&c writer and hope you can use this analysis as a learning tool for the next time. In general, try to be more specific and list actual pokemon when discussing why to use a certain coverage move or how to use a pokemon or why it is effective in the current metagame etc. Some say less is more but this is not the case when writing these analysis. I also urge you to look at how other experiences writers such as Erisia Hootie Bolts etc write their analysis and the common phrasing they use that is up to par with what is expected of these analysis. With all that said, I look forward to continue to see your growth and development as a writer!
 
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Threw

cohiba
Watchog please get this implemented within the next day or two at the most

e: make that 24 hours flat, we need these out as soon as possible.
 
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Sorry, but the fact that this was not only updated on time, but also pretty much rewritten by AJB in his check means I'm reassigning this. For future reference, please make sure you've actually used the Pokemon before reserving an analysis for it.
 
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