Lugia [QC 0/3]

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[OVERVIEW]

* Thanks to Lugia's execellent bulk with multiscale is able to check common offensive threats as Primal Groudon, Extreme Killer Arceus, Mega Salamence and Rayquaza, stalling them with toxic and phazing out.
* Access to Roost with its high Speed, lets Roost up before the foe's attack to keep Multiscale intact and lose its Ice-, Rock-, Electric-type weakness.
* Although Psychic-Type grants resistence against Fight-Type also becomes weak to common Ghost- and Dark-types of the metagame.
* Is vulnerable to status problems, mainly toxic which breaks multiscale and puts lugia on a timer becoming more easy to beat.
* Lugia has no reliable ways to damage foes without toxic stall, this makes commons Steel-Type check it.
* Addition of a new Steel-Type, Necrozma-DM makes lugia threatened. Offensive variants can easly set up on Lugia, both Sunsteel Strike and Searing Sunraze Smash ignores Multiscale, while defensive variants sets Stealth Rocks and spread Toxic to cripple Lugia.

[SET]
name: The Great Wall
move 1: Toxic
move 2: Roost
move 3: Whirlwind
move 4: Substitute / Ice Beam
item: Leftovers
ability: Multiscale
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

* Toxic allows Lugia being to cripple common ofensive threats in a timer.
* Roost is the mainly way of recovery, also keep active multiscale, choseen over recover because avoid his weaknesses against Ice-, Rock-, and Electric-type attacks in the same turn that use it.
* Whirlwind prevents sweepers from setting up on Lugia residual damage when used with entry hazards, Toxic, or both.
* Substitute blocks status moves from slower and passive threats and lets Lugia toxic stall foes more reliably.
* Ice Beam is the first attack choosen to deal with Mega Mence, Rayquaza and Zygarde-C.

Set Details
========

* Lugia needs 96 Speed to outspeed neutral base 90 Speed. The rest of the EV's in HP and Defense to maximize Lugia's bulk.
* Leftovers is benefited thanks to full invesment HP with gets 416 HP which is divisible by 16, this means a extra 6.25% of recovery per turn.
* Multiscale halves damage only when Lugia is at full HP.

Usage Tips
========

* If facing offensive teams mantain Lugia full healthy in order to keep active Multiscale in case of emergency that you need take a hit of a boosted Pokemon as Primal Groudon, Arceus Ekiller, Geomancy Xerneas and phaze it with Whirlwind.
* Once you find the opportunity, spread toxic to put in a timer opposing Pokemon and proced to stall along with roost.
* Try to get away Stealth Rocks from your field
* Scout for potential status users such as Necrozma-DM, Ho-oh, and Primal Groudon.
* Be wary of be trapped by opposing Shadow Tag user's Mega gengar and Gothitelle.
* Use Whirlwind to deal with Pokemon that can get a free set up like Mega Lucario which Lugia can't beat with Toxic, but take in mind that this will doesn't work if is the last pokemon, similars scenarios could happen with Arceus CM Refresh formes and Necrozma-DM.

Team Options
========

* Solid Hazard Control like defog user such as support Arceus formes like Arceus-water, Arceus-Ground or Magic Bounce user as Mega sableye help to keep out hazards.
* Magic Bounce users or Clerics such as Mega Sableye, Chansey, Blissey, or Xerneas, to provide support against status problems thats threaten lugia main rol as wall.
* Hazard setters makes Whirlwind more efective inflicting residual damage to the opposing pokemon. Primal Groudon and Necrozma-DM provides Stealth rocks, Ferrothorn provides spikes, and Toxapex Toxic Spikes, while the last three are inmune to toxic as well.
* Tyranitar provides support from Pursuit to Mega Gengar and Gothitelle which can trap and deal with Lugia with help of Taunt.
* Others offensive threats that can pressure Steel- and Poison-types such as Primal Groudon and Ho-oh.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

* Dragon Tail is primarily used to prevent being trap from Shadow Tag, but doesn't work on Fairy-types and cannot take down substitutes from Arceus SD formes.
* Thunder Wave can cripple fast threats, but is still inferior compared to toxic.
* Defog is another option if a team requires hazard control, but isn't the best choice to this role since lose Multiscale switch in Stealth Rocks and hazard setters like Primal Groudon and Necrozma-DM could run Toxic.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Shadow Tag**: Mega Gengar can pressure Lugia heavely, once is mega evoluted can traping with shadow tag, procced the use of taunt to cancel whirlwind and kill with shadow ball. Gothitelle could beat lugia PP stalling with taunt and rest.

**Stealth Rocks**: Stealth Rocks breaks advantage of multiscale, this lets lugia vulnerable to being OHKO'ed.

**Taunt**: Besides Mega Gengar and Gothitelle, others Taunt users such as Mewtwo and Mega Gyarados, shut down Lugia anulling Roost, Toxic and Whirlwind.

**Status Spreaders**: Toxic is the mainly status thats terrifies Lugia, makes multiscale useless and puts Lugia on a limit of turns in battle, while burn only ruin his ability and paralysis leaves useless speed invesment to outspeed 90 neutral base Pokemon, besides the possibility of lose a turn to spread toxic, use roost or whirlwind.

**Steel-Types**: Due the lack of attacks to deal with them, Steel-types are inmune to toxic, and walls completely Lugia. Ferrothorn and Necrozma-DM can get an opportunity to set hazard, the last can get a free set up too as well as Mega Lucario.

**Dark- and Ghost-types**: Yveltal is the most viable dark type in the metagame, threats with taunt, super efective dark pulse and knock off. Others Dark-type with less usage like Arceus Dark could beat lugia with a CM Refresh set, Tyranitar Choice Band also scare with both stabs attacks, or a utility set with toxic besides presence of residual damage of sand. Mega Gengar, Marshadow, Lunala, and Necrozma-DW threaten with super efectives attacks.

**Magic Bounce users**: Mega Sableye and Mega Diancie's ability prevents lugia from using Toxic and Whirlwind freely.

**Teravolt and Turboblaze**: Zekrom and Kyurem-W abilitys ignore multiscale, and hit with electric and ice attacks, respectively.
 
Last edited:

charizard8888

Catch The Wave
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Not QC, just some suggestions

Overview
- Mention its high Speed which lets it Roost up before the foe's attack to keep Multiscale intact and lose its Ice-, Rock-, Electric-type weakness.

Usage Tips
- Get away when you see a potential status users. (Switch out sounds better than Get away here)
- Use Whirlwind to deal with Pokemon that can get a free set up like Mega Lucario which Lugia can't beat with Toxic, but take in mind that this will doesn't work if is the last pokemon, similars scenarios could happen with Arceus CM Refresh forms and Necrozma DM.

Team Options
- Give one or two examples of clerics and status absorbers.
- Hazard setters works very good along with Lugia's Whirlwind. Primal Groudon and Necrozma DM provides Stealth rocks, while ferrothorn provides spikes, and Toxapex Toxic Spikes. (As Whirlwind in conjunction to hazards inflict residual damage to the opposing Pokemon)

Other Options
- For Substitute, you should also add in that it safeguards Lugia from status moves like Toxic and Thunder Wave.
- I'm not sure but maybe Aeroblast?

Checks and Counters
- Should specifically state Steel-types being immune to Toxic
- Marshadow checks
- Teravolt Zekrom, Turboblaze Kyurem-W (Yeah aren't that good but still counters).
- Taunt cripples it
 
Not QC either, but the combination of Multiscale + Whirlpool is now legal thanks to the GSC VC games, and I think it'd be a nice addition to OO as it can be used to chip away at Steel-type switchins while preventing them from doubling out due to being trapped. It just has an issue of being tough to fit on to Lugia's moveset. You can also probably mention an offensive set with Calm Mind + Flyinium Z in OO as well as it's surprisingly strong when boosted and has a relatively high speed tier to go along with it as it can outpace Rayquaza and below with a Modest nature, but such a set is vastly inferior to the defensive set and other CM Z move sweepers such as Lunala, and it only really works thanks to surprise factor and not to mention the introduction of Dusk Mane Necrozma hurts it as well..
 
AM

~~

[OVERVIEW]

* Thanks to Lugia's execellent bulk, ground immunity and multiscale is able to check common offensive threats as Primal Groudon, Extreme Killer Arceus, Mega Salamence and Rayquaza.
* It does check these threats indeed but because of its sheer bulk with Multiscale it is a blanket check to basically most setup sweepers
* It has access to roost as reliable recovery way and keep multiscale active.
* Which along with toxic can proceed to stall out the foes it checks.
* It is able to phaze set up sweepers thanks to Whirlwind being more annoying and hard to beat with just offensive teams.

* Saying that Lugia checks these threats would mean toxic stalling them / phazing out so no need to specifically make bullet points for these.
* Although Psychic-Type grants resistence against Fight-Type also becomes weak to common Ghost- and Dark-types of the metagame.
* Is vulnerable to status problems, mainly toxic which breaks multiscale and puts lugia on a timer becoming more easy to beat.
* Due lacks of coverage can't touch commons Steel-Type of the tier thats can take a opportunity to get a free switch in.
* Not because lack of coverage but Lugia has no reliable means to damage foes in the first place without toxic stalling and this makes Steel-types or other Pokemon immune to Toxic huge nuisances to deal with.
* Addition of a new Steel-Type, Dusk-Mane Solgaleo makes lugia threatened which also has opportunity to put Stealth Rocks on a free switch.
* There are far more than this about the reason why Necrozma-DM is a threat. Offensive variants easily bust through Multiscale with Sunsteel Strike or Searing Sunraze Smash and defensive variants set Stealth Rock, as you said, and uses Toxic to cripple Lugia. It is also worth noting its immunity to Toxic lets it switch into Lugia with impunity.

[SET]
name: The Great Wall
move 1: Toxic
move 2: Roost
move 3: Whirlwind
move 4: Substitute / Ice Beam
item: Leftovers
ability: Multiscale
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

* Toxic allows Lugia being to cripple common ofensive threats in a timer.
* Roost is the mainly way of recovery, also keep active multiscale, choseen over recover because avoid his weaknesses against Ice-, Rock-, and Electric-type attacks in the same turn that use it.
* Whirlwind prevents sweepers from setting up on Lugia residual damage when used with entry hazards, Toxic, or both.
* Ice Beam is the first attack choosen to deal with Mega Mence, Rayquaza and Zygarde-C.
* Substitute blocks status moves from slower and passive threats and lets Lugia toxic stall foes more reliably.
* Psychic is another option over Ice Beam to try to get off Mega Gengar and Mega Lucario with more damage.
* Psyshock has better chances against Mega Gengar.

Set Details
========

* 252 HP and 120 Def invesment with bold nature to maximize bulk in order to resist many physically hits as possible.
* 96 Speed works to outspeed neutral base 90 speed pokemon allowing use roost before an attack.
* Mention that Lugia needs 96 Speed to outspeed neutral base 90 Speed and the rest of the EV's go into HP and Defense.

* Leftovers is benefited thanks to full invesment HP with gets 416 HP which is divisible by 16, this means a extra 6.25% of recovery per turn.
* Multiscale halves damage only when Lugia is at full HP.


Usage Tips
========

* If facing offensive teams mantain Lugia full healthy in order to keep active Multiscale in case of emergency that you need take a hit of a boosted Pokemon as Primal Groudon, Arceus Ekiller, Geomancy Xerneas and phaze it with Whirlwind.
* Once you find the opportunity, spread toxic to put in a timer opposing Pokemon and proced to stall along with roost.
* Try to get away Stealth Rocks from your field
* Get away when you see a potential status users.
* When you are hit by Toxic it is too late. It would be better to say scout for status users beforehand, especially from Primal Groudon and Necrozma-DM.
* Be wary of be trapped by opposing Shadow Tag user's Mega gengar and Gothitelle.
* Use Whirlwind to deal with Pokemon that can get a free set up like Mega Lucario which Lugia can beat with Toxic, but take in mind that this will doesn't work if is the last pokemon, similars scenarios could happen with Arceus CM Refresh forms and Necrozma DM.

Team Options
========

* Solid Hazard Control like defog user such ass support Arceus formes like Arceus-water, Arceus-Ground or magic bounce user as Mega sableye help to keep out hazards.
* Status Aborbers or Clerics to provide support against status problems thats threaten lugia main rol as wall.
* Examples being Chansey and Blissey
* Hazard setters works very good along with Lugia's Whirlwind. Primal Groudon and Necrozma DM provides Stealth rocks, while ferrothorn provides spikes, and Toxapex Toxic Spikes.
* Primal Groudon makes up Lugia's passivity and the rest of the Pokemon mentioned switches into Toxic. Hazards on the field make Whirlwind significantly more effective.
* Muk Alola and Tyranitar provides support from Pursuit to Mega Gengar and Gothitelle which can trap and OHKO Lugia with help of Taunt.
* CKW said Muk-Alola isn't relevant enough, just talk about Tyranitar.
* Others offensive threats that can pressure Steel- and Poison-types such as Primal Groudon and Ho-oh.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

* Substitute can be used over an attack being more useful on a team with hazard spam, however this set it's useless against taunt.
* Dragon Tail is primarily used to prevent be traping from gothitelle, if it carry taunt, and killed(???) by him, but doesn't work on Fairy-types.
* The biggest downsides is inability to phaze substitute + swords dance arceus and geomancy xerneas in a pinch.
* Thunder Wave can cripple fast threats, but is still inferior compared to toxic.
* Defog is another option to run if a team requires hazard control, but isn't the best choice to this role.
* Most hazard setters run Toxic and in this aspect this option isn't great so mention that.

Checks and Counters
===================

I would re-order to:

- Trappers: Mega Gengar and Gothitelle
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt: stuff like Mewtwo and Mega Gyarados
- Status
- Pokemon immune or resilient to Toxic
- Magic Bounce users


~~

Best of luck!
 
Last edited:
Britania I'm gonna give you 48 hours to update the analyses (this means Lugia AND Gyarados) with the feedback you have been given before reassignment. Writer inactivity isn't gonna get us anywhere.
 
* Toxic allows Lugia being to cripple common ofensive threats in a timer.
I'd list specific offensive threats here.

[SET]
name: The Great Wall
move 1: Toxic
move 2: Roost
move 3: Whirlwind
move 4: Psychic / Ice Beam
item: Leftovers
ability: Multiscale
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 Spe
Psychic helps vs Gengar, Toxapex, Mega Lucario, Mega Blaziken and Marshadow. An attack is better than Substitute these days but it can still sit in Moves without a slash.
* Try to get away Stealth Rocks from your field
Give details as to how to go about this


I'd give this a proofread and correct as many errors as you can to make GP's life easier. English as a second language is perfectly understandable and GP is happy to support that, but effort can come from both sides.

I can stamp after the changes.

edit: the writer hasn't been on smogon for weeks and these are somewhat important mons. i'm gonna reassign this.
 
Last edited:
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