Announcement LC Suspect - Longtime Sunshine - Vulpix is banned

Status
Not open for further replies.
To share my opinion, I think sun without bellsprout is manageable (hell maybe even sun with sprout is manageable). I laddered with a team without sprout and it was ok but nothing great. I would rather have more diversity in team archetypes in the metagame so I'm leaning towards no ban.
Thank you for finally bringing this up. I've been contemplating this suspect for a while, and my ultimate opinion is that Sun in general isn't a problem. The problem comes when you stack dangerous Chlorophyll users on the same team -- and the sheer offensive presence of Bellsprout under sun.

From the initial few pages of this suspect thread, it seems that only the double Chlorophyll build of Sun is suspect-worthy, but I then considered whether builds without Bellsprout were even problematic for the metagame. Outside of Bellsprout, the main viable partners for Bulbasaur would be Oddish and Exeggute, both of which are rather lackluster. Not only is Oddish rather slow for a Chlorophyll sweeper (26 Speed max, outsped by the fair few 18+ Spe scarfers in the tier), its movepool is less impressive than Bellsprout's, mainly lacking the important Weather Ball for Steel coverage, forcing it to resort to Hidden Power Fire to hit threats such as Pawniard and Grimer-Alola. Exeggute, while sitting at a much more respectable 28 Speed, is considerably weaker than both Oddish and Bellsprout, and lacks the Poison-type nuke that makes double Chloro so dangerous, instead swapping it for a Psychic-type secondary STAB that honestly isn't strong enough. The two sit at C and D ranks on the VR for a reason. While Deerling is another semi-viable Chlorophyll sweeper, it's a physical-based one that really doesn't overlap well with Bulbasaur for the purposes of double Chloro.

240 SpA Oddish Hidden Power Fire vs. 36 HP / 36 SpD Eviolite Grimer-Alola in Sun: 7-9 (28 - 36%)
240 SpA Oddish Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 116 SpD Eviolite Pawniard in Sun: 14-18 (66.6 - 85.7%)
240 SpA Oddish Acid Downpour (175 BP) vs. 116 HP / 76 SpD Eviolite Vullaby: 16-19 (64 - 76%)

196 SpA Exeggcute Shattered Psyche (175 BP) vs. 212 HP / 76 SpD Eviolite Spritzee: 15-18 (55.5 - 66.6%)
196 SpA Exeggcute Hidden Power Fire vs. 116 HP / 76 SpD Eviolite Vullaby in Sun: 5-7 (20 - 28%)
196 SpA Exeggcute Hidden Power Fire vs. 36 HP / 36 SpD Eviolite Grimer-Alola in Sun: 7-9 (28 - 36%)
196 SpA Exeggcute Shattered Psyche (175 BP) vs. 0 HP / 236 SpD Munchlax: 16-19 (53.3 - 63.3%)


I believe that Sun has a strong foothold in the metagame right now, and players should be expected to deal with its threats in teambuilding like any other offensive threat. However, I don't think Sun as a whole is broken -- only a small part of the playstyle (Bellsprout + Bulbasaur double Chloro sun, which is basically a single team) is even maybe problematic for the metagame. As such, I don't think banning Vulpix and by extension Sun as a playstyle is the way to go for dealing with sun.

Honestly, dealing with weather sweepers has always been weird. Often the Pokemon isn't actually broken alone, but the presence of an external set-up can push it over the edge. See: BW Kingdra (and other SSers), BW Excadrill, BW Garchomp to an extent (Sand Veil). This begs the question, is it enough to suspect the Pokemon for being broken under certain circumstances, or should the one responsible for the set-up that breaks the 'mon in question be suspected instead? It doesn't help that the generation where weather was the most prominent was inconsistent with its bans. Kingdra/Rain was dealt with through a complex Drizzle + Swift Swim ban, Sand was dealt with by simply banning Excadrill, and Garchomp just lost Sand Veil. None of those 'mons (save perhaps Chomp) were particularly strong by themselves, without their respective weathers. More recently, Baton Pass has been a point of contention in other tiers, and is similar in that an external force sets up an otherwise manageable 'mon to overpowered levels. However, Baton Pass can also be seen as an entirely different beast in that its possible recipients are far more abundant than weather abusers. In any case, tiers are also undecided on this issue: OU has a clause where Speed + another stat cannot be simultaneously passed, whereas UU (and by extension lower tiers) banned the move outright.

In this case of dual Chloro being oppressive, would it be a viable option to simply nerf the playstyle similarly to how BW nerfed Sand offense by banning its strongest abuser -- in this case, by looking to suspect Bellsprout instead of Vulpix -- instead of eliminating the archetype as a whole? The effects of Sun are contained to only its abusers (Chlorophyll primarily, and to a lesser extent offensive Fire-types), and really only a small portion of those abusers are even viable, let alone suspect-worthy.
 
MAGICIAN VIPER'S GREAT POST
da727e96-3044-465b-b6a0-aa76dfddfeff.jpg
Welcome one and all, girls and boys and whatever the fuck GOAO is to the amazing viper post you have all been waiting for!
Today the lord himself viper will do the unthinkable and make one of the first pro ban posts in this thread. Amazing, right? And that's only my first trick.

giphy (1).gif
To many users such as MK007 you may think "I use double edge meowth and think sun is perfectly balanced!" But the users who have seen the true sun like me, the great viper, know the true horrors of the sun meta. Now for a limited time only I will show you all the horrors of the sun meta.
evil sun.png

Jee willikers! That scared me right out of my stokings! "Why isnt this scary thing banned!" I hear Sam-testings squealing in the backround hiding behind his measly sun checks. Well sam, its ok cause after this great viper post all of the lc community will see the reasons why sun is borked.

The ways to beat sun many of you mention are not good!
cropped pory.jpg

For my third trick today I will slowly make all of your sun checks (not including munchlax cause thats the only sun counter lol) disappear! For this trick I will need two memebers from the audience! how about you Plasmagby and you Fiend come on down.






To sum up those two great interviews basically I showed how many of the sun counters lose under common circumstances while talking with plasmagby and how the only one who doesnt lose to sun under circumstances (munchlax) isn't that good if you aren't vs sun and with fiend he talked about how the sun answers are bad when you aren't fighting sun!

To me, personally, I think that when you fit some of these sun checks on your team and you still have the chance to lose after you have put a ok at best mon when you aren't vs sun teams leads me to think sun is overpowered. For example, if you add a hippo to a build just to check sun it leaves you with a kinda meh slot that could have been used better as a fill and hippo can still lose to sun teams as shown above. If you add an agrimer to your build it leaves you with a very similar team and a mediocre sun check.

It is overcentralizing!

Just look at that guy, don't you just wanna beat him up. Now look again, doesn't he look like that one guy who punched you for playing pokemon competitively. Now when you look again don't you think he should be banned from lc. Yeah that's right, not only am I a good magician but I do hypnosis.


To truly beat sun you will need more than one of these sun checks listed above. If you use lets say a hippo and a vullaby to beat sun on your team sure you have a good matchup vs sun but you leave your team in a bad state. If you use a weird set that is not viable only to beat sun you are limiting your team and still may lose to sun because of how good it is right now. In conclusion, if you don't use two of the mons listed above then you lose to sun and when you do use those two mons you are limiting your teams which makes me believe that sun is overcentralizing.
 
Last edited:
Viper... since you had to throw shade I've gotta ask, if sun was so good... why didn't you get reqs with it?

Actual post and commentary on anti ban will come later when im done with working on English IV stuff. For now tho here's some quick thoughts I'll expand on later


WA Vull dominates sun once onix is gone and all you have to do is switch it into foo

Special Carv matches up really really well vs every mon on a sun team (needs rocks tho obv for sash dig and onix). Just bring it in (a free switchin obv not a switchin) on like onix/foo/dig/archen and be smart and youve got a free sweep.

Meowth just shreds any sun setter after some chip dmg or LO dmg. It actually 1v1s basically any mon (if say bell or bulb has 10-20% gone which is easy enough if u have ANY other prio) on a sun team besides WA onix variants

Abra is a guaranteed KO on a sun sweeper if u play smart and switch a mon into the sleep powder and then sack a mon.

Scarf Doduo beats Oddish and Modest Bell (which is by FAR the most common bell)

Bulky Rufflet lives anything bellsprout throws at it bar Acid Downpour and revenges it. Most of the time bellsprout will NOT acid downpour because it thinks, scarf rufflet, and also wants to save the nuke for a bulkier mon you might have on your team.
 
Last edited:
MAGICIAN VIPER'S GREAT POST
View attachment 79539
Welcome one and all, girls and boys and whatever the fuck GOAO is to the amazing viper post you have all been waiting for!
Today the lord himself viper will do the unthinkable and make one of the first pro ban posts in this thread. Amazing, right? And that's only my first trick.

To many users such as MK007 you may think "I use double edge meowth and think sun is perfectly balanced!" But the users who have seen the true sun like me, the great viper, know the true horrors of the sun meta. Now for a limited time only I will show you all the horrors of the sun meta.

Jee willikers! That scared me right out of my stokings! "Why isnt this scary thing banned!" I hear Sam-testings squealing in the backround hiding behind his measly sun checks. Well sam, its ok cause after this great viper post all of the lc community will see the reasons why sun is borked.

The ways to beat sun many of you mention are not good!

For my third trick today I will slowly make all of your sun checks (not including munchlax cause thats the only sun counter lol) disappear! For this trick I will need two memebers from the audience! how about you Plasmagby and you Fiend come on down.






To sum up those two great interviews basically I showed how many of the sun counters lose under common circumstances while talking with plasmagby and how the only one who doesnt lose to sun under circumstances (munchlax) isn't that good if you aren't vs sun and with fiend he talked about how the sun answers are bad when you aren't fighting sun!

To me, personally, I think that when you fit some of these sun checks on your team and you still have the chance to lose after you have put a ok at best mon when you aren't vs sun teams leads me to think sun is overpowered. For example, if you add a hippo to a build just to check sun it leaves you with a kinda meh slot that could have been used better as a fill and hippo can still lose to sun teams as shown above. If you add an agrimer to your build it leaves you with a very similar team and a mediocre sun check.

It is overcentralizing!

Just look at that guy, don't you just wanna beat him up. Now look again, doesn't he look like that one guy who punched you for playing pokemon competitively. Now when you look again don't you think he should be banned from lc. Yeah that's right, not only am I a good magician but I do hypnosis.


To truly beat sun you will need more than one of these sun checks listed above. If you use lets say a hippo and a vullaby to beat sun on your team sure you have a good matchup vs sun but you leave your team in a bad state. If you use a weird set that is not viable only to beat sun you are limiting your team and still may lose to sun because of how good it is right now. In conclusion, if you don't use two of the mons listed above then you lose to sun and when you do use those two mons you are limiting your teams which makes me believe that sun is overcentralizing.
If you're throwing shade, I got you.

Notice how ItzViper482 didn't include his interview with me, where I told him my opinion that sun should stay. Also you wrote "It is overcentralizing!" in bold, although you provided next to no evidence to support it besides the fact that Vulpix reminds you of your elementary school bully. Also sun isn't a mon: it is a playstyle. Do you carry a one-size-fits-all counter to stall in OU, or have a single Pokemon to break Bulky Offense? In my discussion with Viper (mentioned above) I mentioned that sun cannot be slapped onto a team as an extra wincon or wallbreaking core. Sun must be built around. When comparing to other recent bans, Porygon and Cutiefly could both just be shoved on a team to break it, and they both only took up one slot. Even just Vulpix and Bellsprout need support to work properly, which is why most people use sun sample teams, and don't build their own teams, as they can only take a bit of variation before they become near unviable.

Also Viper keep debate healthy, and don't call out people for having a difference of opinion NERD!!!!!!!!! <3
 
If you're throwing shade, I got you.

Notice how ItzViper482 didn't include his interview with me, where I told him my opinion that sun should stay. Also you wrote "It is overcentralizing!" in bold, although you provided next to no evidence to support it besides the fact that Vulpix reminds you of your elementary school bully. Also sun isn't a mon: it is a playstyle. Do you carry a one-size-fits-all counter to stall in OU, or have a single Pokemon to break Bulky Offense? In my discussion with Viper (mentioned above) I mentioned that sun cannot be slapped onto a team as an extra wincon or wallbreaking core. Sun must be built around. When comparing to other recent bans, Porygon and Cutiefly could both just be shoved on a team to break it, and they both only took up one slot. Even just Vulpix and Bellsprout need support to work properly, which is why most people use sun sample teams, and don't build their own teams, as they can only take a bit of variation before they become near unviable.

Also Viper keep debate healthy, and don't call out people for having a difference of opinion NERD!!!!!!!!! <3
I'm gonna explain why this post has a few things wrong in it.
  • Notice how user Drew didn't read the paragraph after i called vulpix a bully where i explained why i think sun is overcentralizing.
  • With qdfly you had to have support for it as well, you had to have ways to get it in and something to baton pass to.
  • While yes sun isnt a single mon it should still be delt with the same way as anything else that is busted.
  • The fact that it's not splashable has nothing to do with how good it is.
  • Does bulky offense sweep you under sun? Does stall threaten you the second it comes in? No, but guess what does All the mons in the sun core.
  • Using sample teams are fine, they work I don't understand your point
Also, may I ask what your point is? All you have said is that sun isn't one mon, it is a playstyle which I think we all get. You then compaired sun to stall which is weird to me when stall is a team archtype and sun is a sub-playstle. With stall you can use a bunch of mons and they all have different ways to beat them, with sun there are like 5 similar sun sweepers and you need a multiple checks to beat that. You haven't commented on anything that I have said yet you are quoting my post. Yes, sun is not pdfly or pory and yes sun isn't one mon, but you haven't said why it isn't broken. If we compare sun to fighting spam which has been done before because they are both considered sub-playstyles you can really tell how good sun is. Fighting spam can be delt with, more or less, by mareanie, spritzee, snubble, and more and is harder to use. Many frail mons like dodou can switch into a timburr after something dies and doesn't have to be worried about being outsped like you do with sun. When you are trying to check fighting spam you can add a mareanie and consider yourself done. When you are trying to check sun it is a lot harder because munchlax is not good when not fighting sun which makes you have to run two sun checks to call yourself fine vs sun.
 
I'm gonna explain why this post has a few things wrong in it.
  • Notice how user Drew didn't read the paragraph after i called vulpix a bully where i explained why i think sun is overcentralizing.
  • With qdfly you had to have support for it as well, you had to have ways to get it in and something to baton pass to.
  • While yes sun isnt a single mon it should still be delt with the same way as anything else that is busted.
  • The fact that it's not splashable has nothing to do with how good it is.
  • Does bulky offense sweep you under sun? Does stall threaten you the second it comes in? No, but guess what does All the mons in the sun core.
  • Using sample teams are fine, they work I don't understand your point
Also, may I ask what your point is? All you have said is that sun isn't one mon, it is a playstyle which I think we all get. You then compaired sun to stall which is weird to me when stall is a team archtype and sun is a sub-playstle. With stall you can use a bunch of mons and they all have different ways to beat them, with sun there are like 5 similar sun sweepers and you need a multiple checks to beat that. You haven't commented on anything that I have said yet you are quoting my post. Yes, sun is not pdfly or pory and yes sun isn't one mon, but you haven't said why it isn't broken. If we compare sun to fighting spam which has been done before because they are both considered sub-playstyles you can really tell how good sun is. Fighting spam can be delt with, more or less, by mareanie, spritzee, snubble, and more and is harder to use. Many frail mons like dodou can switch into a timburr after something dies and doesn't have to be worried about being outsped like you do with sun. When you are trying to check fighting spam you can add a mareanie and consider yourself done. When you are trying to check sun it is a lot harder because munchlax is not good when not fighting sun which makes you have to run two sun checks to call yourself fine vs sun.
Some quick things for you to consider viper :

Munchlax is NOT bad when not facing sun. It's the best special switch in in the tier and a decent wincon on its own.

Most of the "checks" to sun don't detract from your team or limit it, exist in most meta teams anyways, and are good mons.

I'm gonna quote fille here.
"many checks are viable AND common
Timburr, grimerA, Onix, Magnemite, Dwebble, Meowth, Abra, Gastly, Ponyta, Larvesta etc etc all great checks"
Vull, agrime, and a few others work great as well.

And I already know you're next arguement viper, youre going to point out scenarios where they DONT win instead of looking at the multitude of situations where, if played right, they DO win. You can do that for any mon/teams checks/counters but pointing out specific instances where the check/counter loses as opposed to the situations where they win (which outweigh the former quite heavily) won't be productive so don't waste your time with that.

Also yeah some of those mons in that list are "uncommon", but plenty arent, and plenty do nothing to "harm" a team. Sticking an S or A+ mon on a team does NOT limit at all.


Sun is NOT centralizing. Look at the usage on those mons, and there are plenty others. Most teams ALREADY have 1-2 of those mons. No one is being forced to run certain mons to check sun. You might point out that Hogg has to counterteam Sun to beat madoka in SPL today, but that doesn't mean that's necessary, he simply prepped for a player that is WELL known for playing sun.

You also told me today that if your team matches up well against sun It's bad against other teams. That is blatantly wrong, hoggs team in spl today for example is still a good team, a personal example might be my Meowth HO team which matches up well against other HO such as sun but also against other meta teams.

Sun also fares badly against plenty of offensive matchups which is what I was trying to get into in my post earlier and will finish tonight. But look, sun has NO SWITCHINS to abra. 5/6 mons on sun lose to zigzagoon. Special Vanha and NP Vull 6-0 Sun with rocks up if they have the chance to set up, which, you can do. I'll expand on that later in my previous post.

As I demonstrated in our battle with you earlier vipe, you can't even kill a Mon with vulp (unless you're finishing it off with flame charge) if the opponent has diglett or you lose vulpix.
 
I'm gonna explain why this post has a few things wrong in it.
  • Notice how user Drew didn't read the paragraph after i called vulpix a bully where i explained why i think sun is overcentralizing.
  • With qdfly you had to have support for it as well, you had to have ways to get it in and something to baton pass to.
  • While yes sun isnt a single mon it should still be delt with the same way as anything else that is busted.
  • The fact that it's not splashable has nothing to do with how good it is.
  • Does bulky offense sweep you under sun? Does stall threaten you the second it comes in? No, but guess what does All the mons in the sun core.
  • Using sample teams are fine, they work I don't understand your point
Also, may I ask what your point is? All you have said is that sun isn't one mon, it is a playstyle which I think we all get. You then compaired sun to stall which is weird to me when stall is a team archtype and sun is a sub-playstle. With stall you can use a bunch of mons and they all have different ways to beat them, with sun there are like 5 similar sun sweepers and you need a multiple checks to beat that. You haven't commented on anything that I have said yet you are quoting my post. Yes, sun is not pdfly or pory and yes sun isn't one mon, but you haven't said why it isn't broken. If we compare sun to fighting spam which has been done before because they are both considered sub-playstyles you can really tell how good sun is. Fighting spam can be delt with, more or less, by mareanie, spritzee, snubble, and more and is harder to use. Many frail mons like dodou can switch into a timburr after something dies and doesn't have to be worried about being outsped like you do with sun. When you are trying to check fighting spam you can add a mareanie and consider yourself done. When you are trying to check sun it is a lot harder because munchlax is not good when not fighting sun which makes you have to run two sun checks to call yourself fine vs sun.
Ok so a few points to provide a counterarguement to my counterarguement to your arguement.
  • You misunderstand the point of the stall and bulky offense examples, which that they are just that: examples. If you want something easier to compare to, try Hyper Offense, as it fits the criteria of being immediately threatening on a switch in.
  • Neither Onix, nor Archen, nor Kabuto, nor Snubbull, etc. are very threatening on switch in.
  • Don't meme in a post if you want someone to take it seriously (s/o to the sentence under the picture of Vulpix in the original post)
  • My point regarding sample teams, is that you usually know every single mon, spread, and set on sun teams, which makes it much easier to play around, something you don't seem to consider as an option to beat sun.
  • "While yes sun isnt a single mon it should still be delt with the same way as anything else that is busted." this is the core fault I have in your arguement.You claim to get that sun is a playstyle, yet you treat it as a mon. This brings me back to my previous claim, that you need to play around sun, not switch in a check and call it a day. You also claim that everything that is busted should be dealt with the same. That is false on sooooooooooooo many levels:
    • Gothita was considered borked, as was Porygon, but would you deal with them by switch in a check? No. Gothita kept you from switching out, while Z-Conversion Porygon just had to weaken its checks and the game was over.
    • The main way to deal with Cutiefly was to check whatever it passed to, or the mon itself by switching in a tanky mon, though, so how can these 3 situations be countered in the same, or even ina remotely similar way.
    • Also, if you were alluding to banning things that are hard to switch into, then you're also considering everything with Belly Drum, Doduo, and Diglett are broken, and even though Poliwag is tough to switch into, I doubt anyone would consider it good, much less broken (macle not included in this statement).
The main reason I can find for banning sun, is that it's hard to switch into, which as I stated above, is a common trait. The only real reason I could see for banning it personally however, is the lopsided skill it takes to use and defeat it. This basically means that it is relatively easy to use, and relatively hard to beat. But, I feel people are understating how easy it is to use, even to an extent where this point is essentially null. I would like to say that sun isn't easy to use, and leave it at that, as I haven't been seeing many players anything short than good using it to its full extent.

Also ItzViper482 I'd be down to have a debate on PS! in PMs or if others want to participate, maybe even use a battle as a sub-chatroom of sorts, but lets not clog up this thread arguing each others points into the ground.
 
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7lc-549299962

debate between a lot of LC players in a battle.

tl;dr: We basically agreed that Vulpix is the center of sun, but banning Bellsprout accomplishes what most people want without taking away an archetype.

fiend edit: here are the logs: http://pastebin.com/iCwYES7U
the battle is unimportant in every aspect, and replays are not conducive to reading.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
fuck

Vulpix was chosen as the victim of the suspect over Drought because Vulpix is the only Drought user and we do not want to have a complex ban on the Pokemon. When discussing this suspect, please do not argue whether it should be the ability or the Pokemon that the suspect is the focus of.
Please get it in your heads that the suspect test is to decide on if the current version of sun which is Vulpix + 2 abusers is broken or not for which the TL's have decided the broken part is Vulpix. It's too late now to discuss a hypothetical metagame without Bellsprout and I pray that no voters who think Sun currently is broken vote no ban because they would like Bellsprout banned instead. If anyone is thinking of doing that then please abstains with the reasoning "Would rather ban Bellsprout" to get the message across.
 

Camden

Hey, it's me!
is a Battle Simulator Admin Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
I don't really have much to say about the suspect tbh. I'm not a wordsmith and I'm certainly no Levi, but I'll say that I think Sun is dumb. Trying to keep myself alive over the course of the game is extremely difficult because of how hard hitting chloro sweepers are and the coverage they have. General Sun checks can be easily outsped and worn down. The more reliable Sun checks aren't considered viable other than to check Sun specifically. The main reason I'm posting though is because I wanted to respond to those arguing about wanting Bellsprout suspected instead:

There were many options I considered for this suspect, some I didn't even mention to the council or my co-leader because I had scrapped them early on. Ultimately I settled on Vulpix because of the impact of double chlorophyll. I didn't want to suspect Drought because it goes against my personal philosophy of not wanting to "nerf" the Pokemon to keep it acceptable for play. I decided against Chlorophyll because there are only 3 notable users of the ability out of the 12 that have it (others are usable but you're rarely picking those over the main 3), and I didn't go with Heat Rock because it doesn't properly address the problem. That left Vulpix and Bellsprout, the centrepiece of the archetype and the best abuser of Chlorophyll. So why suspect Vulpix when possibly banning Bellsprout would leave the archetype damaged, but still playable? It's simply because I believe that Bellsprout by itself isn't the issue. Bellsprout is absolutely the best Chlorophyll user in LC, and without him, yes, Sun would be worse, but Bellsprout is simply a part of what makes the team work, and it isn't the primary element responsible to its success. You need Vulpix to provide the Sun, Bellsprout to help sweep, a second sweeper to take the pressure off Bellsprout and apply more offensive presence, and utility Pokemon such as Mienfoo and Staryu to help provide a defensive backbone for the team while also having Knock Off/U-turn/Rapid Spin/etc. to support. You need every piece of the team to come together properly to make it successful, so instead of targeting one particular piece of the team, I felt it was more appropriate to go after the arbiter of the archetype, Vulpix.

When you vote in this suspect, please consider the archetype as a whole and the support that Vulpix provides to it, not what Vulpix does on its own. In addition, please do not let your vote be influenced by whether or not you think Vulpix is the correct choice for the suspect. This is what we have decided as the most appropriate course of action, and it's what we're sticking with. Thank you to everyone for your cooperation in this suspect. I understand you've missed a lot of High Jump Kicks and have been crit one time too many, but your efforts are appreciated.
 
Last edited:

Camden

Hey, it's me!
is a Battle Simulator Admin Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
After the results of the Vulpix suspect, the people have voted to ban Vulpix in a 75% majority. Vulpix by itself was not a broken Pokemon, as it is rather frail and has moderate at best Special Attack and Speed. The main reason that Vulpix shines in the current metagame is it's ability: Drought. With the combination of Drought and a myriad of Chlorophyll sweepers to abuse the harsh sunlight, the amount of support that Vulpix provided was immensely powerful, as was deemed to be too powerful to remain legal. While Vulpix does the same job as it did in ORAS, the development of the metagame has allowed multiple Chlorophyll sweepers to fit on a team with relative ease. Vulpix's Drought, in addition to the item Heat Rock, created 8 turns in which many potent sweepers, such as Bellsprout, Bulbasaur, and Oddish would be able to power through teams. While Vulpix is most known for aiding others with sun support, one cannot overlook the other abilities that Vulpix possess, including it's ability to burn key threats with Will-o-wisp and hit respectably hard with a powerful Overheat. Overall, the amount of aid that Vulpix provided to Sun-based Hyper-Offense teams was deemed to be too overbearing on the current metagame.

Thanks to everyone for their participation, and to Coconut for writing up this blurb.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top