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Pokémon Kartana
- Thread starter Ash Borer
- Start date
- Status
Substitute should be considered on the SD set as Toxapex can't always break it with scald. You'll want to run a few SpDef EVs though - 32 is enough for most but 64 guarantees an unbroken sub. Leaf Blade + Night Slash is decent enough coverage with sub but Leaf Blade + Sacred Sword is OK too.
Also, this may come as a surprise but Kartana is one of the more viable users of Protective Pads right now. Rocky Helmet Landorus/Garchomp/Ferrothorn/Celesteela are all common switch-ins, and preventing chip damage can be huge in keeping Kartana alive. Two other switch-ins are Zapdos and Volcarona, but with Protective Pads you don't have to worry about triggering Static and Flame Body.
Also, this may come as a surprise but Kartana is one of the more viable users of Protective Pads right now. Rocky Helmet Landorus/Garchomp/Ferrothorn/Celesteela are all common switch-ins, and preventing chip damage can be huge in keeping Kartana alive. Two other switch-ins are Zapdos and Volcarona, but with Protective Pads you don't have to worry about triggering Static and Flame Body.
I'm not sure if this would merit a slash over LO/ Z move/whatever in the analysis, but it seems like a decent other options mention since many teams have (in my experience) relied on LO recoil and helmet damage to handle Kartana if they can't check it well. Usually they switch back and forth until it dies. Honestly a lot of my interest comes from the item itself; I didn't even know that something like this existed. Haven't beaten Sun yet so that must be why.
Yeah, I agree. One of the biggest downsides I've noticed with Protective Pads is that you miss out the Magnezone OHKO, which sucks, so Life Orb or Fightium Z probably is better.
Also, I'm surprised nobody has brought up Sticky Web yet. Sticky Web pairs extremely well with SD Kartana because it prevents naturally faster Pokemon like Tapu Koko, Greninja, Pheromosa, and Scarf Lele from revenge killing it.
I find it pretty funny that Kartana is the newest owner of the move Vacuum Wave, when Vacuum Wave is actually its biggest weakness. I mean...
252 SpA Life Orb Toxicroak Vacuum Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kartana: 307-367 (118.5 - 141.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Even crazier is that if you put in 156 Def EVs...
252+ Atk Life Orb Kartana Smart Strike vs. 0 HP / 156 Def Toxicroak: 242-286 (78.8 - 93.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
... even those 156 Def EVs are taken straight out of SpA:
96 SpA Life Orb Toxicroak Vacuum Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kartana: 265-315 (102.3 - 121.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
So yeah, barring criticals and the off chance that Kartana is carrying Psycho Cut AND predicts your switch, you've got a very unorthodox counter. Not since Quagsire/Golduck in Ubers have I seen something like this.
Of course, Kartana would have to be VERY defining in the metagame, and if it was getting to the point where people were building Toxicroak sets just to beat this guy, I'd say Kartana's biggest threat would be the suspect testers at that point. That said, if you're five Pokémon into a team and suddenly realized "Oh sh-- I can't beat Kartana with this team! I'd get easily swept!" then, uh... There you go!
i mean you could also use lucario but you know, it's wrecked by the much more common secret sword, and also... well... obviously you can use lucario
252 SpA Life Orb Toxicroak Vacuum Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kartana: 307-367 (118.5 - 141.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Even crazier is that if you put in 156 Def EVs...
252+ Atk Life Orb Kartana Smart Strike vs. 0 HP / 156 Def Toxicroak: 242-286 (78.8 - 93.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
... even those 156 Def EVs are taken straight out of SpA:
96 SpA Life Orb Toxicroak Vacuum Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kartana: 265-315 (102.3 - 121.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
So yeah, barring criticals and the off chance that Kartana is carrying Psycho Cut AND predicts your switch, you've got a very unorthodox counter. Not since Quagsire/Golduck in Ubers have I seen something like this.
Of course, Kartana would have to be VERY defining in the metagame, and if it was getting to the point where people were building Toxicroak sets just to beat this guy, I'd say Kartana's biggest threat would be the suspect testers at that point. That said, if you're five Pokémon into a team and suddenly realized "Oh sh-- I can't beat Kartana with this team! I'd get easily swept!" then, uh... There you go!
i mean you could also use lucario but you know, it's wrecked by the much more common secret sword, and also... well... obviously you can use lucario
I won't say Toxicroak is a good counter, because you can't switch in reliably. Katrana can beat Croak on the switch. It also OHKOs Croak with Smart Strike at +1.
I'd say Mega Charizard Y is a much better counter, carrying resists to Smart Strike and Sacred Sword (and also the quad-resistance to Leaf Blade)
Other counters include Landorus-T and Skarmory. Skarm can easily take a hit of any of his STAB moves (also has Sturdy) and can phaze it out with Whirlwind.
I'd say Mega Charizard Y is a much better counter, carrying resists to Smart Strike and Sacred Sword (and also the quad-resistance to Leaf Blade)
Other counters include Landorus-T and Skarmory. Skarm can easily take a hit of any of his STAB moves (also has Sturdy) and can phaze it out with Whirlwind.
Man SD Kartana is a pretty big problem for stall. Unaware mons are weak to its STABs and Fightium Z lets it pummel Skarm. Shedinja and Zapdos are the best ways ive seen stall can deal with this savage, so if you can get rocks up look out.
I wouldn't consider Lando-T or Skarm counters to this mon either tbh. The best way to beat it is to check it offensively
I wouldn't consider Lando-T or Skarm counters to this mon either tbh. The best way to beat it is to check it offensively
But you know the problem with Megas as counters... If you haven't already Mega Evolved during the match, you aren't a counter, and that's to say nothing of Charizard's Stealth Rock weakness (which comes into play on so many of Kartana's answers).
Also, the only way Kartana would hit +1 is if it's KO'd something of yours... At which point you don't have to worry about switching in.
Kartana also outspeeds Charizard Y, but Kartana has very few moves to hit a Fire/Flying type if they haven't gotten hit by rocks. And well, that's also to say nothing of the fact that Charizard Y is just a good mon in general.
Also, the only way Kartana would hit +1 is if it's KO'd something of yours... At which point you don't have to worry about switching in.
Kartana also outspeeds Charizard Y, but Kartana has very few moves to hit a Fire/Flying type if they haven't gotten hit by rocks. And well, that's also to say nothing of the fact that Charizard Y is just a good mon in general.
You're right. Toxicroak does check it well. Tapu Lele seems like a good partner in that case. It can give Psychic Terrain support so that Vacuum Wave (or any priority move fails, Sucker Punch included) and can OHKO Toxicroak with Psychic.
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I think you mean Tapu Lele.
I'd say Stealth Rock support in general is Kartana's biggest boon. With low BP moves and high offense, it's forced to set up to do damage sometimes, and you know that's not always going to be feasible. However, a large majority of its checks are only just barely surviving Kartana's incredibly powerful unboosted moves, so racking up that passive damage with all the forced switches is great.
Now then, obviously "Hey, Stealth Rock is a good move!" isn't any groundbreaking advice, but if you're gonna use this mon, make sure you're getting those rocks up immediately and packing a teammate that can beat the common Defoggers.
Now then, obviously "Hey, Stealth Rock is a good move!" isn't any groundbreaking advice, but if you're gonna use this mon, make sure you're getting those rocks up immediately and packing a teammate that can beat the common Defoggers.
toxapex can potentially check kartana depending on the item its running. if its running a z move it cant normally break through toxapex since leaf blade at most is doing 35-40% damage unless a crit comes up. toxapex can proceed to haze/recover off the damage while scalding when its able to. life orb makes this infinitely harder though, because leaf blade is a guaranteed 2hko after rocks. it cant do anything at all though if it switches in on sd though.
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All out Offensive Kartana:
-Kartana @ Focus Sash
-Naughty Nature
EV Investment: 252 Atk, 252 Speed, 4 Def
Moves:
-Leaf Blade
-Smart Strike
-Night Slash
-Sacred Sword/X-Scissor
I mainly use this set in doubles w/ T-Koko
-Kartana @ Focus Sash
-Naughty Nature
EV Investment: 252 Atk, 252 Speed, 4 Def
Moves:
-Leaf Blade
-Smart Strike
-Night Slash
-Sacred Sword/X-Scissor
I mainly use this set in doubles w/ T-Koko
Kartana @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 60 HP / 196 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 19 Atk / 0 SpA
- Leaf Blade
- Swords Dance
- Sacred Sword
- Smart Strike
The best Kartana set, in my opinion. I know the 19 Attack IVs and shit have been gone over, but I think it warrants another mention. Quite simply, putting zero EVs in attack for Kartana is a huge boon. It has the mandatory Timid nature and 252 Speed, but then you just have 256 EVs. So you invest in Defense. But then Defense gets so high that if you put another EV in it, it'll be the boosted stat instead. So then you invest the rest in HP. And that makes for a Physically bulky as fuck pokemon. Which means it's easy as hell to get one or god forbid two SDs, nuke the switch in or whatever poor poke allowed you to set up on it, and then sweep.
Sitrus berry is to allow it to take some more hits and keep it healthy while it sets up. Even after the speed boost, Kartana doesn't want to take too many priority moves, so the Sitrus means it'll be able to take one or two more.
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 60 HP / 196 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 19 Atk / 0 SpA
- Leaf Blade
- Swords Dance
- Sacred Sword
- Smart Strike
The best Kartana set, in my opinion. I know the 19 Attack IVs and shit have been gone over, but I think it warrants another mention. Quite simply, putting zero EVs in attack for Kartana is a huge boon. It has the mandatory Timid nature and 252 Speed, but then you just have 256 EVs. So you invest in Defense. But then Defense gets so high that if you put another EV in it, it'll be the boosted stat instead. So then you invest the rest in HP. And that makes for a Physically bulky as fuck pokemon. Which means it's easy as hell to get one or god forbid two SDs, nuke the switch in or whatever poor poke allowed you to set up on it, and then sweep.
Sitrus berry is to allow it to take some more hits and keep it healthy while it sets up. Even after the speed boost, Kartana doesn't want to take too many priority moves, so the Sitrus means it'll be able to take one or two more.
Should've used Bold for the extra Defense
The point is to get Beast Boost to hit speed. One more point in defense means that gets hit instead, which doesn't snowball nearly as hard.
My build:
Life Orb /Assault vest/Salac, Maranga, or Apicot berry
Gentle Nature
-Swords Dance(cause swords dance+beast boost+181 base atk= 6 decapitated poke heads.)
-Leaf blade(I have no idea. Crits and a healthy dosage of BP?)
-Air Slash(As they say, the best defense is a good offense, and troll by flinching does that good for its two weaknesses. Especially Fighting.)
-HIdden Power Rock/Ground/Water(for those pesky HO fire types.)
Life Orb /Assault vest/Salac, Maranga, or Apicot berry
Gentle Nature
-Swords Dance(cause swords dance+beast boost+181 base atk= 6 decapitated poke heads.)
-Leaf blade(I have no idea. Crits and a healthy dosage of BP?)
-Air Slash(As they say, the best defense is a good offense, and troll by flinching does that good for its two weaknesses. Especially Fighting.)
-HIdden Power Rock/Ground/Water(for those pesky HO fire types.)
I am using an adamant one. I want to maximize its attack. Its speed isn't super important to me.
Preferably with Z-First?(z-me first) That is WAAAY OP.
Ema Skye
Work!
What is your reason for using Air Slash and Hidden Power (both special moves) on a Pokemon with 59 Special Attack?
If you want to get rid of the Fighting-types, go for Psycho Cut (it'll hit harder). And you really shouldn't try to fight Fire-types with Kartana when it's 4x weak to them; that's what teammates are for.
!dt sarcasm
Kartana has more Attack than Speed and therefore gets an Attack Boost, not an Speed Boost which is kinda better at snowballing fatter teams
I think he might be talking about the timid 19 attack IV set.
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