Great Idea Mafia-Postgame & Setup Discussion


hopefully still approved by askaninjask
based on a mafiascum setup

game thread
Wow, what a game this was to host.

The idea for this mafia game came several months ago, in late 2013. I was surfing my favorite resource for mafia, mafiascum's wiki (although they're NOC focused and have no information at all regarding OC games), and discovered a setup called Great Idea mafia where roles were randomly assigned. I thought it looked cool and considered hosting one here, but I didn't like the role list.

Naturally, I ended up making my own role list that used a little more of Smogon's terminology and removed some of the absurd roles they had on their list. I ended up very happy with the results, but there are a few things I'd change for next time (pacifist :(...).

I'm sure you're tired of my rambling, so let's get on to the game itself!

The Setup
  1. 22. Deputy
  2. 20. Talent Scout
  3. 53. Mayor
  4. 62. Mafia Goon
  5. 56. Mafia Goon
  6. 41. Wrong Place at the Wrong Time Townie
  7. 90. Compulsive Nymphomaniac
  8. 17. Cop (insane)
  9. 38. Town Innocent Child
  10. 33. Hider
  11. 91. Lyncher
  12. 95. Pacifist
  13. 59. Mafia Goon
  14. 47. Mason
  15. 39. Miller
Actual Role Distribution:

1. Ace Emerald-Village-33. Hider-
2. Blue Tornado-Village-17. Cop (insane)
3. Cancerous-Village-38. Town Innocent Child
4. Celever-Mafia-62. Mafia Goon
5. Da Letter El-Village-20. Talent Scout
6. Empoof-Village-41. Wrong Place at the Wrong Time Townie
7. Felony-Village-22. Deputy
8. LightWolf-Village-39. Miller
9. Memoric-Village-Mayor
10. More Cowbell-Neutral-90. Compulsive Nymphomaniac
11. Obbmud99-Village-47. Mason (no partner)
12. Paperblade-Neutral-91. Lyncher (target: Empoof)
13. starwarsfan-Mafia-59. Mafia Goon
14. UllarWarlord-Neutral-95. Pacifist
15. Walrein-Mafia-56. Mafia Goon

Night Action Template:

More Cowbell falls in love with <USER>.
Ace Emerald hides behind <USER>, <survives night/is killed>
Mafia sends <MAFIA MEMBER> to kill <USER>, <succeeds/fails>
Blue Tornado Insane inspects <USER>, gets result <mafia/not mafia>
Da Letter El inspects <USER>, gets result <ROLE>
Felony <cannot inspect>/<inspects <USER> with a <INSPECT TYPE>, gets <RESULT>>.
All other players have no night action and idle.

I was worried that this setup would lead to an absolute village stomp. Village had a backed up inspector role, a Hider, and 2 Day 1 cleans, and the Mafia had no power roles! I almost considered trashing this setup because, even for a game that claimed to be unbalanced, this was taking it a little far. However, I ended up letting this setup run because:

-the inspector was Insane, and the deputy could potentially inherit the Insane inspection without knowing it was insane
-there were tons of millers in the village
-Talent Scout wasn't very useful

And in the end, I'm glad I let it run. The village ended up failing to make use of a lot of its more powerful tools because of inactivity, lack of information, or just plain bad luck. It proves that no matter how weak a mafia may look in a setup, the village's ability to screw everything up and lose the game anyways shouldn't be underestimated.

Day by Day Discussion

Day 1:

Random vote stage was pretty uneventful, only a small argument over whether Obbmud99 knew what Random Vote Stage was or not. I forgot to reveal Cancerous as an Innocent Child, so I fixed that in the first real vote count. That vote count also revealed Memoric as Mayor. His vote being counted as two in the actual visible vote count, not just in my head was intentional. If I didn’t actually count his vote twice, I’d be sure to forget it; besides, I would rather be truthful about the vote count then post

Activity early in Day 1 was alright, but got worse as the day went on. I admit that had a lot to do with this game overlapping with AP week in the US. I wouldn’t have cared if people said “I’d love to play, but I’ve got to take AP exams first” in signups-I would have been willing to put off the game for that if it hadn’t already started.

The case on Felony was largely driven by Celever’s post http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/great-idea-mafia-game-over-mafia-vonfiedler-and-more-cowbell-win.3505374/page-5#post-5418135]here[/url] where she made a great argument as to why Felony should be lynched. A few other players hopped on the bandwagon, with Walrein being the only other scum on the wagon, and Felony ended up getting lynched.

Night 1

More Cowbell falls in love with Walrein.
Ace Emerald chooses not to hide behind a player.
Mafia sends random member to kill Blue_Tornado, succeeds.
Blue_Tornado Insane inspects Obbmud99, gets Mafia result, but it doesn’t matter because he’s dead.
Tesung inspects Celever, gets result vanilla.
All other players have no night action and idle.

This night was alright, I guess. Most of the actions only came in after I specifically prodded the players to send them. Ace Emerald idling was understandable since he didn’t have good reads on anybody, but at the same time I’d argue Night 1 is when you want to be using the hide to clean people. Even if you die before you can reveal your results, you at least give people WIFOM to discuss like “did he target the mafia kill target” and “who would Ace have targeted”.

I was somewhat disappointed that Blue_Tornado was killed off so early, especially because he was an Insane inspector. I was looking forward to seeing that role interact with LightWolf’s miller role; since LightWolf is supposed to flip Mafia when inspected, he would instead flip Town when inspected by B_T, which would have lead to some...interesting...discussion if B_T claimed his result.
Day 2

This day phase was horrible, although it wasn't all the players' fault. This day occupied the first week of AP exams in the US, and as such a lot of players just couldn't play. I was caught off guard by this, because I assumed that people wouldn't sign up if they couldn't maintain their activity through AP exams. I don't think I'll ever underestimate the Circus community's love of mafia again.

By the end of the day, one threat to cancel the game later, you did come up with a lynch. Ullar was a decent choice here because he was lurking pretty hard, but I would have gone for starwarsfan or Obbmud if I was in the game. The outcome of today lead to the Day 3 MYLO/LYLO/somethingLO which I'll discuss in more detail then this. In the meantime, let's just pretend this day didn't happen, okay?

Night 2

Ace Emerald chooses not to hide behind a player.
Mafia sends starwarsfan to kill Cancerous, succeeds.
Tesung inspects starwarsfan, gets result vanilla.
All other players have no night action and idle.

Yeah, nothing really interesting here. All the interesting power roles are already dead.

Let's give a quick rundown of the game at the start of Day 3:

Village Aligned (7 votes)

1. Ace Emerald-Village-33. Hider
5. Da Letter El Tesung-Village-20. Talent Scout
6. Empoof spiresquire-Village-41. Wrong Place at the Wrong Time Townie AND lyncher target
8. LightWolf-Village-39. Miller
9. Memoric Nitrox116-Village-Mayor
11. Obbmud99-Village-47. Mason (no partner)
Neutral (1 vote)

12. Paperblade PokeguyNXB-Neutral-91. Lyncher (target: Empoof)

Neutral, Leaning Mafia (1 vote)

10. More Cowbell-Neutral-90. Compulsive Nymphomaniac->Neutral Lover with Walrein
Mafia Aligned (3 votes)

4. Celever-Mafia-62. Mafia Goon
13. starwarsfan-Mafia-59. Mafia Goon
15. Walrein-Mafia-56. Mafia Goon->Mafia Lover with More Cowbell

Now, there are a number of possible outcomes for this day, and all of them are very confusing. As such, I’ve made a flowchart to help explain this scenario:

No Lynch said:
-if mafia kills Nitrox116, game goes to a 5/3/2 LYLO, where mafia is NOT guaranteed a win even though village has lost majority because More Cowbell is not guaranteed to vote with the mafia and the lyncher
-if mafia kills spiresquire, pokeguyNXB loses and game goes to a 6/3/1 vote
-if mafia kills anyone else, then the game goes to a 6/3/2 LYLO
-if Ace Emerald dies in addition to the mafia kill, then the game goes to a 4/3/2 weird state if Nitrox was the target and goes to a 5/3/2 tied LYLO scenario if he wasn’t.
-if mafia targets Ace Emerald but fails, then the next day is 7/3/2 all over again with the same scenario repeated
Ace Emerald lynch said:
-N3 has guaranteed mafia kill
-if mafia kills spiresquire, pokeguyNXB loses, leading to a LYLO Day 4 with 5 village votes, 3 mafia votes, and 1 neutral vote
-if mafia kills pokeguyNXB, game goes to a 6/3/1 setup, which is another weird situation.
-if mafia kills Nitrox116, game goes to a 4/3/2 setup, which is a mafia+lyncher+lovers win IF the lyncher claims and all 3 mafia members+MC+the lyncher bandwagon on spiresquire.
-if mafia kills anyone else, game goes to Day 4 with a tally of 5 V/3 M/2 N
spiresquire lynch said:
-pokeguyNXB wins and is removed from the game
-if mafia goes for Ace Emerald but fails, the game setup is now 6/3/1, which is neither MYLO nor LYLO
-if mafia hits Nitrox116 but NOT ace emerald, the Day 4 setup is now 4/3/1, which allows the mafia to force a tie vote IF More Cowbell votes with them (although if the village’s target is not Walrein, that’s not guaranteed)
-if mafia hits Nitrox116 AND Ace Emerald, the Day 4 setup is 3/3/1, a guaranteed mafia+lovers win as Walrein can simply push a lynch onto a known villager and have More Cowbell and the rest of the mafia pile on
-if mafia hits any other player but NOT ace emerald, the Day 4 setup becomes 5/3/1, which is a LYLO scenario.
-if mafia hits any other player AND Ace Emerald, the Day 4 setup is 4/3/1 (see above)
pokeguyNXB lynch said:
-if mafia kills Nitrox116, then the setup is 5/3/1, which is LYLO
-if mafia kills anyone else, the setup is 6/3/1, which is neither LYLO nor MYLO
-if Ace Emerald dies IN ADDITION to the mafia kill, the setup is either 5/3/1 LYLO or 4/3/1 LYLO depending on whether his target was Nitrox116 or not
-if the mafia targets Ace Emerald and fails, then the setup is 7/3/1 which is neither LYLO nor MYLO
another villager is lynched said:
-if mafia kills Nitrox116, then the setup is 4/3/2, which is a mafia+lyncher+lover win
-if mafia kills spiresquire, pokeguyNXB loses and leave the game, creating a 5/3/1 setup which is MYLO
-if mafia kills anyone else, the setup is 5/3/2 tied LYLO
-if Ace Emerald dies IN ADDITION to the mafia kill, the setup is either 3/3/2 town loss or 4/3/2 town loss
-if mafia targets Ace Emerald but fails, the setup is 6/3/2 MYLO
Walrein/More Cowbell are lynched said:
-More Cowbell and Walrein lose and are removed from the game
-if mafia kills Nitrox116, then the setup is 5/2/1, which is MYLO.
-if mafia kills anyone except Nitrox116, then the setup is 6/2/1 and neither MYLO nor LYLO
-if Ace Emerald dies IN ADDITION to the mafia kill, the setup is either 4/2/1 LYLO or 5/2/1 MYLO.
mafia member is lynched said:
-if mafia kills Nitrox116, then setup is 5/2/2 LYLO
-if mafia kills anyone else, then setup is 6/2/2 MYLO or 7/2/1
-if Ace Emerald dies IN ADDITION to the mafia kill,
the setup is either 4/2/2 tied LYLO or a 5/2/2 LYLO
-if mafia targets Ace Emerald but fails, setup is 7/2/2
You can see why this was so complicated for me. If the village mislynches, then they can potentially lose instantly depending on who's lynched. However, if the village no lynches, the game is still within their control, as the outcome of the game would depend on the mafia's kill versus Ace Emerald's action target (and an Ace Emerald idle guarantees a Day 4). Since the village's fate was still in its own hands following a No Lynch, I chose to call the day MYLO. I don't regret this decision at all.


Night 3

Ace Emerald chooses not to hide behind a player.
Mafia sends Celever to kill Nitrox116, succeeds.
Tesung inspects LightWolf, gets result vanilla.

Not much to talk about here. Ace Emerald continues to idle. Mafia finally offs Nitrox116 like they should have the previous night. Tesung gets another player with no role.

Day 4

Finally, the village managed to hit scum. I was anticipating a big swing Twilight Princess style where the village would finally get their act together, hit a few scum in a row, and bring the game to a 3-4 player LYLO situation. Unfortunately, this didn't end up happening, but it would have been cool. Still, the lynch on starwarsfan was well justified and really should have happened Day 3 if not Day 2. It kept the village in the game another day and night.

Night 4

Ace Emerald chooses not to hide behind a player.
Mafia sends Celever to kill LightWolf, succeeds.
Tesung inspects Ace Emerald, gets result Hider.

Again, nothing to really talk about. Town-est player gets offed, Ace Emerald idles again. Tesung actually cleans Ace Emerald, which doesn't mean much since he was basically considered clean anyways.

Day 5

This was the decisive phase of the game. vonFiedler, after having settled for a starwarsfan lynch Day 4, pushed onto spiresquires hard and eventually got everyone to lynch him. It ended in a village loss which really should have come long ago (though at least von got his win first!)

I'm out of steam on day phase discussion, let's talk about the players!

Individual Player Discussion


7. Felony-Village-Town Deputy-Lynched Day 1

Dear <USER>, you are a Deputy. You want to become a cop, but you’re still in training right now. However, if a Watcher, Tracker, Cop, FBI Agent, or Talent Scout dies, you will assume their role and gain their night action. You win if the town eliminates all anti-town factions and players.
Felony’s play wasn’t great-he didn’t post much and tended to be a touch hostile when he did. He ended up getting lynched Day 1, and was shortly afterwards outed as a Shining Latios alt (which doesn’t really forgive his poor play).

He probably could have slipped out of the day 1 lynch simply by claiming earlier. There were only four posts in between his claim and deadline, and two of them were his! If he had claimed earlier on in the lynch wagon, he could have not only escaped the lynch, but probably drawn a mafia kill as well, even though there was no way to know whether there was an inspector he would have gained powers from at the time.

2. Blue_Tornado-Village-Town Insane Cop-Killed Night 1

Dear <USER>, you are a Town Cop. At night, you may choose to perform an investigation on a player. You will be told whether they are Town or Not Town. You win when the town eliminates all anti-town factions and players.
(host note: is an Insane cop; produces flipped results)

Oh, Blue_Tornado. I knew he had a lot of experience, but I was hoping he would have lasted longer than he did (though his death was no fault of his own). Unfortunately, he was namekilled by the mafia before he could really do anything. He was decently active and never made any waves, which is expected for an information role in NOC.

I was looking forward to seeing Blue_Tornado’s role interact with the various neutrals and millers in the game. LightWolf was the only role in the game who he would have gotten a correct result from (because Millers are “Not Town” upon inspection, Blue_Tornado would have inspected him as “Town”). Getting “Town” results on UllarWarlord and More Cowbell’s harmless neutral roles would have been interesting to see as well.

14. UllarWarlord-Neutral-Neutral Pacifist-Lynched Day 2

Dear <USER>, you are a Pacifist. You don’t like the mob rule that the Mafia promotes, and are determined to put a stop to it. You win if there is ever a No Lynch during the day followed by a night phase in which no kills are successful.
Ullar’s activity wasn’t great either, but I’m not all that upset about him because his role was literally unwinnable. I patched the rules behind the scenes to allow him to win no matter what order the No Lynch and no kill occurred in, but without a real protective role there was no way for Ullar to win, which probably explained the activity. He ended up being lynched after claiming Pacifist, which wasn’t really a great claim at all (I would have gone for solo Lover or Politician claim, as both of those roles would get “Not Town” results upon inspection but have no conflict with the village WC).

If I ever run this setup again, I’ll either A. keep the role, but require a majority to lynch and/or reduce the WC to just a No Lynch or B. replace it with a more interactive role like a Lyncher/Unlyncher.

3. Cancerous-Village-Town Innocent Child-Revealed Day 1, Killed Night 2
Dear <USER>, you are a Town Innocent Child. Because you are only six years old, everyone knows there’s no way you could be mafia. You will be confirmed town by the host at the start of Day 1. You win if the town eliminates all anti-town factions and players.
Cancerous really needed to be more active, as he was one of two cleaned townies on Day 1 who didn’t post his thoughts enough. A lot of his posting were single sentences or promising to post more later, which is really just a terrible use of the Innocent Townie role. He was killed Night 2 by the mafia because they thought that a protective role would be on Nitrox and because they thought that killing Cancerous would give minimal information to the village (although there was serious disagreement and OMGUS in the scumchat over the kill choice).

The best way to play innocent townie, really, is to play extremely aggressively since your day behavior can’t backfire on you at all. You want to draw a mafia kill away from a more valuable power role, as a mafia kill on you will just put people onto your previous targets.

9. Nitrox116-Village-Town Mayor-Killed Night 3

Dear <USER>, you are a Town Mayor. Last year, you were elected in a landslide victory, so it’s understandable that you have a lot of credibility with the townies. Your vote will count twice in the daily lynch. You win if the town eliminates all anti-town factions and players.
Memoric’s play in this game was just terrible. He was extremely inactive (decidedly NOT the trait you want most in a mayor) and he didn’t abuse his cleanness at all. Once he was subbed out for Nitrox, the village’s game improved dramatically. Nitrox played very well while he was alive, although he ended up dying very quickly to a mafia kill as they tried to secure their endgame following the Day 3 No Lynch.

13. starwarsfan-Mafia-Mafia Goon-Lynched Day 4

Dear <USER>, you are a Mafia Goon. You are a low level enforcer for the mafia; your fellow mafia members are Celever and Walrein cxinlee. You may communicate with them in this quicktopic. At night, if your team chooses to have a kill performed, you are eligible to carry out the kill. You do not have any other special abilities. You win if the mafia ever obtains a majority of the population of the game with no harmful neutrals alive.
Not much to say about starwarsfan. He really should have been lynched a lot earlier than he was, especially after his Day 2 scumslip where he implied a 3 scum team (which he couldn’t possibly know without being mafia). That being said, he did manage to avoid being lynched, so his play can’t have been too bad compared to the rest of the game.

He did manage to get a lot of inactivity excused by claiming he was trying to save his 2k (which was true). I don’t think I would have given him a pass on that if I was in the game, but I let it go.

8. LightWolf-Village-Town Miller-Killed Night 4

Dear <USER>, you are a Town Miller. You are a good person who’s known to be friends with the wrong people. As such, any inspections targeted on you will give the same result they would for a mafia member. Your true alignment will be revealed upon your death. You win if the town eliminates all anti-town factions and players.
I don’t think anybody ever even considered a mafia LightWolf, which is strange considering he was one of the first people to be considered in Twilight Princess. He played a very town game as miller, and his activity was great overall. I thought his argument with Celever, while VERY typical of LightWolf, wasn’t a great move and distracted the town a lot on day 2. Not many complaints, though-he did get another role that didn’t do anything so applause to him for being active anyways (see Twilight Princess, where he had a Safeguard that didn’t do anything).

6. Empoof spiresquire-Village-Wrong Place at the Wrong Time Townie-Lynched Day 5

Dear <USER>, you are a Wrong Place at the Wrong Time Townie. Unfortunately for you, you have an awful habit of always being around when crimes are being committed, even though you’re completely innocent. Under inspection, you will appear to be targeting the person who most recently died. Your true alignment will be revealed upon your death. You win if the town eliminates all anti-town factions and players.
Empoof’s activity was pretty low, though IRL issues were probably to blame on this one. He didn’t know he was Paperblade’s target, so he ended up playing pretty low activity until he was subbed out. Spiresquire’s activity was pretty good until he got grounded for some reason IRL, after which it fell off dramatically. This made him an easy target for vonFiedler on Day 5.

12. Paperblade PokeguyNXB vonFiedler-Neutral-Neutral Lyncher targeting Empoof spiresquire-Won Day 5

Dear <USER>, you are a Lyncher. You have a special hatred for <USER>; he’s screwed you over all your life, and now you’re going to get payback. Your only goal is to get your target lynched; upon his death you will leave the game either victorious or defeated. You win if <USER> is successfully lynched while you are alive, but NOT if he is killed at night or by a day vigilante.
Paperblade being subbed out was a real pity. There was a very good chance that he would have won early on if he hadn’t been subbed out for PokeguyNXB. He told me via PM that he planned to claim a non-town result on Empoof, which almost certainly would have lead to a lynch since the village was desperate for targets at that point. Unfortunately, he was subbed out for PokeguyNXB, who didn’t have access to Paperblade’s plan and just played normally instead of pushing a spiresquire lynch. This culminated in the last sub to vonFiedler, who played extremely, EXTREMELY aggressively and tunneled spiresquire hard. I expected vonFiedler to be put under more suspicion for tunneling, but the mafia-aligned half of the game were happy to let him push a lynch on a somewhat inactive player that wasn’t aligned with them. However, I could have seen this day turning out very, very differently had the experienced players not subbed out en masse early on.

4. Celever-Mafia-Mafia Goon-Won Day 5

Dear <USER>, you are a Mafia Goon. You are a low level enforcer for the mafia; your fellow mafia members are starwarsfan and Walrein cxinlee. You may communicate with them in this quicktopic. At night, if your team chooses to have a kill performed, you are eligible to carry out the kill. You do not have any other special abilities. You win if the mafia ever obtains a majority of the population of the game with no harmful neutrals alive.
So. Celever. She was one of the stronger players on the mafia at the start, generally making good posts and decisions throughout the game. This is despite Walrein’s disparaging comments about her in pregame (his reaction to hearing he was paired with Celever and starwarsfan was “you couldn’t make this any harder” or something along those lines). After Walrein was subbed out, she took de facto leadership of the mafia and steered them to a victory. She ended up in a weird situation on the last day where pretty much everyone thought she was scummy but nobody thought she was scummy enough to lynch. Overall, I thought she played much better than her dubious reputation in this game (her bus on starwarsfan was VERY well handled).

5. Walrein cxinlee-Mafia-Mafia Goon-Won Day 5

Dear <USER>, you are a Mafia Goon. You are a low level enforcer for the mafia; your fellow mafia members are Celever, and starwarsfan. You may communicate with them in this quicktopic. At night, if your team chooses to have a kill performed, you are eligible to carry out the kill. You do not have any other special abilities. You win if the mafia ever obtains a majority of the population of the game with no harmful neutrals alive.
Walrein set a very strong gameplan for the mafia before he left to grind for AP exams. His first post in the scumchat essentially instructed everyone to play exactly like they were village and not try to distract or mislead the village at all, which lead to a lack of good scum targets on the first two days. His substitute, cxinlee, did a very good job of staying off the radar, although he didn’t do much at all other than the occasional double or triple post.

10. More Cowbell-Neutral-Compulsive Nymphomaniac->Lover with Walrein cxinlee-Won Day 5

Dear <USER>, you are a Compulsive Nymphomaniac. You need to have someone, anyone, with consent or without. On Night 1, you MUST make another player your Lover. You will then become a Lover group with your target. If you target another Lover, you will join their Lover group. If your target ever dies, you will commit suicide as in a normal Lover group. You win if you and all your lovers survive to the end of the game, regardless of which faction wins.
More Cowbell got a very nice ride to a win in this game, although it wasn’t at all guaranteed. He targeted Walrein with his mandatory Lover recruitment, hoping that Walrein was mafia and that he would escape kill targeting. Though he couldn’t have known it at the time, he succeeded, hitting the most experienced scum player, who immediately claimed his Loverization in the scumchat and ensured Cowbell’s safety for the rest of the game. He was one of the more popular lynch targets on the final day, and would have absolutely crippled the mafia had he been lynched, but he and the mafia pushed the lynch onto spiresquires very well.

1. Ace Emerald-Village-Town Hider-Endgamed Day 5

Dear <USER>, you are a Hider. At night, you may choose to hide behind another player. If your target is town-aligned, you will hide behind them, protecting yourself from all kills targeted on you but causing both you and your target to die if your target is targeted with a kill. If you target a mafia member or killing third party role, you will die immediately. You win if the town eliminates all anti-town factions and players.
Ace Emerald played a solid game during the day, generally staying off everyone’s shitlists. In fact, I don’t think he got a single vote in the entire game! However, I was disappointed in his night action use. He never once used his night action, not even on Night 1 or 2 when he could have used it without costing the village anything! I didn’t mind him idling Night 3 or 4 when the game was potentially at stake, but idling Night 1 and 2 cost the village valuable cleans that they really could have used on later days.

5. Da Letter ElTesung-Village-Town Talent Scout-Endgamed Day 5
Dear <USER>, you are a Talent Scout. At night, you may choose to invite a target to try out for your reality TV show. You will learn of any special abilities they have. You win when the town eliminates all anti-town factions and players.
Tesung’s role was really limited by the sheer amount of vanilla there was in the game. There were very few night actions, and of the ones that did exist all were village aligned. That being said, he did make great use of his night action; he targeted both starwarsfan and Celever early on (although their Mafia Goon roles made them flip No Ability) and cleaned Ace Emerald on the last night (although he was already universally viewed as town). Unfortunately, nobody really took his claims seriously since he was pretty scummy throughout the game.

I think making his role not reveal alliance and only reveal ability (meaning mafia goons flip as “no ability”) was a good decision that kept him from essentially being a full role PM inspector, though I’d like your opinions on that.

6. Obbmud99-Village-Town Mason-Endgamed Day 5
Dear <USER>, you are a Town Mason. You are a member of the local masonic lodge, a safe place for members to meet and converse at night. Currently, your fellow members are <USER1>, <USER2>, etc. At night, you may discuss the game with all other masons in the game. You win if the town eliminates all anti-town factions and players.
I feel sorry for Obbmud-in Twilight Princess he got Mason with Metal Sonic, who failed every recruit he used and never used the private chat, and in this game he got mason with no partners. What a terrible run of luck.

That being said, Obbmud’s play was fairly solid throughout the game. I think his inexperience gambit day 1 really hurt his reputation in the eyes of the other players, and lead to everything he posted being pretty much ignored for the rest of the game. He did evade suspicion most of the game, except for when he was nearly lynched day 1.
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Setup Discussion

I can't believe this was already a thing

Out of the 253,338,471,349,988,640 possible setups (thanks WolframAlpha!), here are some of the ones that didn't get used:
Sample Setup 1(from the approval post):

Sample Setup 1(using Random.org)

1. 16
2. 22
3. 24
4. 33
5. 41
6. 42
7. 43
8. 51
9. 54
10. 59
11. 68
12. 75
13. 77
14. 90
15. 100

Village (9, 5.5 power roles):

Sane Cop
Deputy
Bulletproof Townie
Hider
Wrong Place at the Wrong Time Townie
Enigmatic Townie
Parolee
Vengeful Townie
Vigilante
Traitor

Mafia (4, 1 member not informed):

Mafia Goon
Mafia Godfather
Mafia Janitor
(Mafia Traitor)

Third Party (2, 1 recruiter and 1 killer):

Vanilla Serial Killer
Compulsive Nymphomaniac

Sample Setup 2

1. 9
2. 13
3. 20
4. 22
5. 30
6. 36
7. 41
8. 46
9. 47
10. 64
11. 66
12. 68
13. 71
14. 76
15. 95

Village (9, 5 power roles)

Vanilla Townie
Watcher
Talent Scout
Deputy
Weak Doctor
Nurse
Wrong Place at the Wrong Time Townie
Masonx2 (nonrecruiting)

Mafia (4)

Mafia Roleblocker x2
Mafia Godfather
Mafia Talent Scout

Third Party (2)

Vanilla Serial Killer
Pacifist

Setup Attempt 1 (the ones I actually RNGed for the game):
  1. 6. Vanilla Town
  2. 37. Town Innocent Child
  3. 91. Lyncher
  4. 14. Tracker
  5. 12. Watcher
  6. 98. Traitor
  7. 23. Bulletproof Townie
  8. 70. Mafia Godfather
  9. 95. Pacifist
  10. 90. Compulsive Nymphomaniac
  11. 79. Bulletproof Serial Killer
  12. 72. Mafia Talent Scout
  13. 80. Poisoning Serial Killer
  14. 50. Governor
  15. 61. Mafia Goon
Result: REJECTED (insufficient village size, too many neutrals)

As hilarious as this setup would have been to run, I couldn’t because of the rules in the OP. I actually think the village might have had a chance of winning here as the sheer number of killing roles with crossfire potential combined with the Governor, Innocent Child, and multiple inspection roles could have lead to the village gaining majority at some point, even though they didn’t start with it.


Next Time
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

I'm considering running another one of these in the future (though it won't be for six months or so-I have an outside communication BIGS I want to host sometime this summer, and I want to let all the salt from this game blow away). However, I wouldn't be running an exact copy of this game-I'd want to make changes. A lot of changes.

Here's the changes I'm considering-please tell me what you think of these and suggest your own if there's something you think I missed.

Definite Rules Changes

-kill the Deadline Review mechanic and find a new way to encourage activity
-Require a majority vote to lynch every day, not just on LYLO/MYLO days.
-New tiebreaking system (this one created problems with LYLO/MYLO calculation)

Possible Rule Changes

-Finger of Suspicion returning from Twilight Princess mafia, though it won't be used as a tiebreaker (I'd find a use for it)
-Solo Lovers become Compulsive Nymphomaniacs, solo Masons get a 1 shot recruit with the same recruit restrictions as Mason Leader.
-Mayor votes still count but are hidden

Roles removed from the list

-Pacifist (this role is terrible and impossible to win as)
-Politician (see above)
-some Mafia Goon copies (mafia goon probability is too high)
-some Vanilla Townie copies
-some Lyncher copies (lynchers are fun)

Possible new roles

-Village Beloved Princess (cancels the next day phase upon being lynched)
-Village DNA Cop (collects DNA from the site of the previous kill automatically every morning, can check players' DNA against a single previous kill site to determine if they were the killer)
-Village/Mafia Neighborizer (after contacting someone at night, can communicate with them privately during the next night only. Not guaranteed to be clean)

---------------------

Wow, that was long. Almost as long as this game felt.

Tell me what you think about anything-the game, the setup, how bad you think a BIG hosted by me would be, anything at all really. I'm still trying to improve as a host and anything you tell me will help.

Thanks for playing!
 
Nice postgame! It was my first Smogon Mafia game, and it was a good experience, despite the village loss.

You hosted quite well; I could tell that you put a lot of effort into keeping the situation current.

As for changes, Lone Masons and Lovers should definitely get that boost you mentioned. The possible new roles look interesting... I'm not such a huge fan of Beloved Princess, since if I'm interpreting it correctly it means that after a mislynch of her, the mafia has 2 nights in which to wreak havoc without any more lynches being made. Basically, it would be game over for the village. The DNA Cop seems to basically be an inspector with a time delay of at least one kill... not overpowered, but not weak either.

The Neighborizer, though, seems really interesting, helping to circumvent some of the restrictions of NOC. I was thinking of a role along those lines... some sort of Mafia/Village Postman that can receive a message from Person A, read it, pass it along to Person B (who is specified by Person A), and also pass along a reply back to Person A from Person B. That would allow for more communication if you really need to talk with someone, but if the Postman turns out to be a mafia member then it's likely you just clued him in on some information. (The night action would probably be to ask someone if they want a message delivered.)

Also, I feel really stupid for not knowing that Celever was female... *facepalm*
 
...OK, now I'm just confused. Celever's profile page has female inputted as the gender... is that not true or something?
 
Celever is a bi-gender polisexual Snover-kin, I'm calling it.

I had a lot of fun by the way, the hosting went smoother than in TP NOC (probably since you didn't have me as a shitty sidekick :D), I'd definitely play a set-up like this again in the future. Hell, I'd play NOC regardless of the set-up. More NOC!
 
shinyskarmory, would it be possible to invite the other players to the scumchat, or does the limit to the number of people in a conversation prevent this?
I don't know if there's a size limit.

I'm on my phone right now but I'll make sure to get everyone invited to scumchat later today (unless there's a size limit I run into).
 
there is a limit, but badged users can circumvent it. just invite a badged user and as many as you can, and ask that badged user to invite the rest

p.s. please add me
 
I just added a bunch of people to the scumchat, PM jumpluff or Ace Emerald if you don't have access but want it (as I can't add any more people without moderator privileges).
Nice postgame! It was my first Smogon Mafia game, and it was a good experience, despite the village loss.

You hosted quite well; I could tell that you put a lot of effort into keeping the situation current.

As for changes, Lone Masons and Lovers should definitely get that boost you mentioned. The possible new roles look interesting... I'm not such a huge fan of Beloved Princess, since if I'm interpreting it correctly it means that after a mislynch of her, the mafia has 2 nights in which to wreak havoc without any more lynches being made. Basically, it would be game over for the village. The DNA Cop seems to basically be an inspector with a time delay of at least one kill... not overpowered, but not weak either.

The Neighborizer, though, seems really interesting, helping to circumvent some of the restrictions of NOC. I was thinking of a role along those lines... some sort of Mafia/Village Postman that can receive a message from Person A, read it, pass it along to Person B (who is specified by Person A), and also pass along a reply back to Person A from Person B. That would allow for more communication if you really need to talk with someone, but if the Postman turns out to be a mafia member then it's likely you just clued him in on some information. (The night action would probably be to ask someone if they want a message delivered.)

Also, I feel really stupid for not knowing that Celever was female... *facepalm*
Yeah, Beloved Princess is definitely sort of a negative utility role, but the village also has the potential to have a ton of power roles to balance it out. I think it's worth giving a test run on the setup list to see if it really disproportionately hurts the village or just punishes the village for screwing up. If anything, I'm worried about DNA cop being underpowered, because it could still be a vigilante that carried out the kill.

Another village role I'm considering adding is the Village Jack of All Trades, which gets four additional roles randomly generated from the list of village roles as one-shot abilities. But that may end up being pretty OP as well...hmm.

If you've got a role idea, feel free to toss it in the mix. I want to expand the village and create a new role split of 60 village/25 mafia/15 neutral, in addition to cutting down on the duplicate roles. I'll need a bunch more roles to replace some of the vanilla and Mafia Goon roles.
 
I've always liked the idea of a Serial Bomber/Arsonist: they plant a bomb in somebody's house (which would be a hidden effect, probably) or douse them with gasoline (which would be an obvious effect that the doused person would be notified of) and can then at some point in the future kill everyone they have targeted at once. I like the whole risk/reward thing associated with it: do you kill the next day (less efficient, but less risky) or do you wait as long as possible (more efficient, but you might be killed before you get a chance to set off the bombs)?

Also, I'm really supporting swf's Inquisitor idea: a serial killer with a limited recruit if he/she gets lucky sounds very interesting.

Finally, I was thinking of a role (Mafia or Village) with an incredibly powerful Inspector ability (maybe Role PM + recent or future night actions) with a time delay before it takes effect and a use limit. Would this be too overpowered?
 
One interesting role that I think I saw here was the Forgetful Cop, where he doesn't get any reports of his targets, but once he dies, all his reports get mod posted.

Also, to balance out JOATs, you could just force them to always have the same oneshot skills instead of randomizing that.
 
Okay, here's my tentative role list for next time. It's got 60 village roles, 25 mafia roles, and 15 neutral roles.

1. Vanilla Townie (no ability)
2. Vanilla Townie
3. Vanilla Townie
4. Vanilla Townie
5. Vanilla Townie
6. Vanilla Townie
7. Vanilla Townie
8. Vanilla Townie
9. Cop (sane) (gets results “Town” or “Not Town”. Sanity not confirmed at any time.)
10. Cop (insane) (As above, but Village-aligned players flip “Not Town” and other players flip “Town”. Sanity not confirmed at any time.)
11. Cop (amnesiac) (As above, but results are revealed simultaneously only upon cop’s death)
12. Tracker (gets a list of people their target targeted)
13. Watcher (gets a list of people who targeted their target)
14. Follower (sees what action their target performs)
15. Voyeur (sees what actions are performed on their target)
16. FBI Agent (gets results "Neutral" or "Not Neutral")
17. FBI Agent
18. Talent Scout (gets a list of active abilities the target has; targets with no active abilities return "No Ability" even if they have a passive ability)
19. Talent Scout
20. SHIELD Agent (gets a list of passive abilities the target has; targets with no passive abilities return "No Ability" even if they have active abilities)
21. SHIELD Agent
22. Bodyguard (protects their target from kills, but will die in their place)
23. Bodyguard
24. Doctor (standard) (protects their target from kills)
25. Doctor (paranoid) (protects their target from kills, but also hooks them)
26. Doctor (weak) (protects their target from kills, but dies if the target is mafia or a killing neutral)
27. Safeguard (standard) (protects their target from any action that would affect the carrying out of their action. Does not block kills.)
28. Safeguard (paranoid) (as above, but also prevents target from using their action)
29. Safeguard (weak) (as with 27, but dies upon targeting a mafia player)
30. Bulletproof Townie (survives the first attempt on their life)
31. Bulletproof Townie
32. Town Innocent Child (confirmed clean Day 1)
33. Town Innocent Child
34. Town Miller (flips “Not Town” to sane Cop, “Not Serial Killer” to FBI Agent, true alignment revealed upon death)
35. Town Miller
36. Town Butcher (flips “Not Town” to sane Cop, “Serial Killer” to FBI Agent, true alignment revealed upon death)
37. Town Butcher
38. Wrong Place at the Wrong Time Townie (when Tracked or Watched, appears to have targeted one of the players who died that night)
39. Wrong Place at the Wrong Time Townie
40. Enigmatic Townie (produces “No Result” for all inspections)
41. Vengeful Townie (if lynched, shoots the person who hammers them)
42. Vengeful Townie
43. Village Mayor (vote secretly counts twice)
44. Village One-Shot Day Vigilante (can shoot another player during the day once in the game, killing them)
45. Village One-Shot Governor (can stop the lynch once in the game)
46. Deputy (copies the first village-aligned inspection role that dies)
47. Deputy
48. Nurse (copies the first village-aligned protective role that dies)
49. Nurse
50. Universal Backup (copies the ability of the first village-aligned power role that dies)
51. Town Paranoid Gun Owner (shoots any player who attempts to target them at night, killing them)
52. Town Paranoid Gun Owner
53. Village Mason (collective 1-shot addition to private chat with other Masons, can talk privately with other Masons at night)
54. Village Mason
55. Village Mason
56. Village Mason
57. Village Neighborizer (targets a player, who is not informed. The next night, the players can communicate privately for 24 hours)
58. Village Neighborizer
59. Village Jack of All Trades (four random abilities from roles 1-85, not including Jack of All Trades roles)
60. Village Jack of All Trades
61. Mafia Goon (no special abilities)
62. Mafia Goon
63. Mafia Goon
64. Mafia Goon
65. Mafia Goon
66. Mafia Hacker (obtains list of target’s active night abilities)
67. Mafia HYDRA Agent (obtains list of target’s passive night abilities)
68. Mafia Tracker (gains knowledge of who their target targeted)
69. Mafia Watcher (gains knowledge of who targeted their target)
70. Mafia Alignment Checker (is told whether target is Village, Mafia, or Neutral)
71. Mafia Hooker (prevents target from using their night action)
72. Mafia Hooker
73. Mafia Hooker
74. Mafia Silencer (prevents target from speaking during the next day, publically announced)
75. Mafia Silencer
76. Mafia Silencer
77. Mafia Godfather (if they did not carry out the kill, they flip “Town”, “Not Serial Killer”, and “No Ability”)
78. Mafia Godfather
79. Mafia Janitor (if they carry out the kill, there is no card flip)
80. Mafia Ninja (comes up “Did not use a Night Action” to Trackers and is invisible to Watchers)
81.Mafia Neighborizer (same as village Neighborizer)
82. Mafia Neighborizer
83. Mafia Jack of All Trades (Four one shots of abilities randomly selected from roles 1-82)
84. Mafia Traitor (aligned with the mafia but does not know who the mafia members are. Mafia also lacks knowledge of traitor’s identity, but knows they have one.)
85. Mafia Traitor
86. Serial Killer (nightly kill, wins if last player standing)
87. Inquisitor (At night, targets a player for a kill. If the player would survive the kill, they are instead recruited. Maximum 1 recruit at a time. Wins if he is the last player standing)
88. Poisoner (poisons target, killing them at the end of the next night phase. Target is informed. Wins if he is the last player standing)
89. Arsonist (coats the target with a flammable substance, informing them. During the day or night, can set all coated targets on fire, killing them instantly)
90. Operative (nightly kill, targets do not card flip upon death. wins if last player standing)
91. Lover (Wins if they and their lovers survive. Paired up automatically with other lovers if they exist, otherwise becomes a Nymphomaniac.)
92. Lover
93. Lover
94. Lover
95. Nymphomaniac (Must recruit another player Night 1; that player then has “You win if <NYMPHOMANIAC> survives added to their existing WC, and the nymphomaniac acts as a standard lover towards them.)
96. Lyncher (randomly chosen target-wins if they are lynched, but not if they are nightkilled. Godkills result in a new random target.)
97. Lyncher
98. Lyncher
99. Lyncher
100. Lyncher


Tell me what you think of this list, it's very much a work in progress. Some roles have been reordered as well (for example, Traitors are in the mafia section instead of being mixed in with the neutrals).
 
Just to make sure, the abilities used by the Jack of All Trades are one-shot, correct? You might want to clarify that in the role list. Otherwise, it looks fine.
 
Do masons get the masonizer shot collectively if there's multiples? And is Mafia Janitor one-shot or always active? Also, I'd probably give the base SK one-shot BP.
 
Do masons get the masonizer shot collectively if there's multiples? And is Mafia Janitor one-shot or always active? Also, I'd probably give the base SK one-shot BP.
Mason groups get one collective Masonizer shot-they have to choose someone to carry it out in the same way mafia chooses to kill.

Mafia janitor is always active, same for ninja. Effectively, if you have a mafia janitor/ninja you want them to always carry out the kill so long as you have them, but they also come with a price-namely, one slot in your party doesn't have an ability like hooker or talent scout which could be more useful depending on the village's specific makeup.

I have a plan for SK modifiers that will allow me to get a lot more variety out of the 5 SK slots. Basically, SK variants will also get one randomized passive ability from a special list in addition to their normal ability. Right now, that list contains Bulletproof, Alpha (inspection immune), Commuter (unaffected by actions if they don't kill), and Copycat, although it's obviously subject to change.
 
I'd probably make Janitor 1-shot. A full Janitor is absurdly powerful in the space of NOC, because half of the village's info is from NK flips. Compared to Ninja, which only actually matters if the village has Tracker/Watcher, and there only being 1 of each, along with JOATs that get Tracker/Watcher.

Also, I assume that if the mason groups try to masonize a Mafia/SK, the one who sent it in gets killed?
 

Da Letter El

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Janitor is usually one shot unless the village is filled with trackers/watchers/whatever the name for revealing people is (is that the lightkeeper?) and that cant be assumed in an all random set up. Agreeing with Sukima that it's incredibly powerful to have it as anything but 1 shot.
 

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