SPOILERS! General Pokémon Anime Discussion

Champion Leon

Banned deucer.
If Iris was going to appear it would have been in Kalos. Since she didn't it kind of telling they writers probably didn't like her (or they were too busy writing their generic anime plot instead of focusing on writing a Pokemon plot which would involve them acknowledging the show has previous history...).

Though I have no doubt Serena will probably appear do to how popular she was (unless they're once again too busy writing a generic slice of life plot to bother with that pesky history thing again... or too busy trying to retcon it).
It feels too weird to add Serena though. Her connection is based on Kalos Ash, does he still fit with her after they changed him so much? (To me, he seems like 2 years less mature than Kalos Ash).

I don't think they will realistically bring back Iris, due to lack of popularity, but I just see her more realistically in the sense of her character fitting in with these other students because they aren't traveling everyday, so the story is about them and that allows for less distractions that you would get from traveling such as a typical "someone gets lost" episode.

I saw more growth of iris towards the end like when she and ash argue and ash has to apologize because she literally walks off on him. Like, Misty would just yell, but iris would require him to make up before even speaking to him first.

And seriously, Serena had cute but pointless Pokémon... I don't get what she will bring.
If they didn't change Ash so much, I would totally get it, but the series seems more cartoonish than before (and we are talking about anime... yeah really).
 
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Pikachu315111

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It feels too weird to add Serena though. Her connection is based on Kalos Ash, does he still fit with her after they changed him so much? (To me, he seems like 2 years less mature than Kalos Ash).

I don't think they will realistically bring back Iris, due to lack of popularity, but I just see her more realistically in the sense of her character fitting in with these other students because they aren't traveling everyday, so the story is about them and that allows for less distractions that you would get from traveling such as a typical "someone gets lost" episode.

I saw more growth of iris towards the end like when she and ash argue and ash has to apologize because she literally walks off on him. Like, Misty would just yell, but iris would require him to make up before even speaking to him first.

And seriously, Serena had cute but pointless Pokémon... I don't get what she will bring.
If they didn't change Ash so much, I would totally get it, but the series seems more cartoonish than before (and we are talking about anime... yeah really).
I wouldn't be surprised if Serena came for a cameo they'd suddenly have Ash acting like he did in Kalos for those few episodes. Actually, I would give the writers credit if they kept the personality they gave Ash for Alola who is way more aligned with what his character is than his Kalos personality. They made Ash a pretty generic anime protag just so Serena could look up to him, I would love to see what she would think of an Ash who actually acts like how many old time viewers knows Ash: a bumbling idiot (with a good heart). With how they're doing overblown reaction shots it would be a glorious visual.

Though with everything you pointed out, makes me think they will once again skip out the cameo. Alolan Ash is too different from Kalos Ash for Serena and, while it would be nice if they gave Iris her overdue cameo, as I said low popularity and her time to cameo is gone. Would be funny if she caught an Alolan Exeggutor, though I would have much preferred to see how Iris would have reacted to Fairy-type Pokemon last arc (they could have even brought back Georgia who would probably become a dedicated Fairy-type trainer).

Also all the companion characters are given growth during the end of the adventure to show how traveling with Ash had changed them. I vaguely remember the episode where Iris leaves the group and thinking the situation felt a bit contrived (and Iris also went back on her own decision as well. I guess you could say it shows maturity on both their parts, not like it matters for Ash who gets hit with the reset button each gen). Now I don't remember an episode where Misty threatened to leave the group if Ash apologized... but I do remember the Orange Island episode where they meet one of the Gym Leaders who falls in love with Misty and asks her to stay with him. Though it was a subtle thing on Ash's part, Ash did have to fight to get Misty to decide to stay with the group (of her own choice, showing growth in her character where she probably would have gladly stayed were it early Season 1 Misty). But I think that's beside the point being made here so let's move on.

Don't see what Serena's Pokemon have anything to do with her being able to make a cameo or not. Heck, Pancham loves getting into mischief which could work pretty good for gags.
 

Champion Leon

Banned deucer.
I wouldn't be surprised if Serena came for a cameo they'd suddenly have Ash acting like he did in Kalos for those few episodes. Actually, I would give the writers credit if they kept the personality they gave Ash for Alola who is way more aligned with what his character is than his Kalos personality. They made Ash a pretty generic anime protag just so Serena could look up to him, I would love to see what she would think of an Ash who actually acts like how many old time viewers knows Ash: a bumbling idiot (with a good heart). With how they're doing overblown reaction shots it would be a glorious visual.

Though with everything you pointed out, makes me think they will once again skip out the cameo. Alolan Ash is too different from Kalos Ash for Serena and, while it would be nice if they gave Iris her overdue cameo, as I said low popularity and her time to cameo is gone. Would be funny if she caught an Alolan Exeggutor, though I would have much preferred to see how Iris would have reacted to Fairy-type Pokemon last arc (they could have even brought back Georgia who would probably become a dedicated Fairy-type trainer).

Also all the companion characters are given growth during the end of the adventure to show how traveling with Ash had changed them. I vaguely remember the episode where Iris leaves the group and thinking the situation felt a bit contrived (and Iris also went back on her own decision as well. I guess you could say it shows maturity on both their parts, not like it matters for Ash who gets hit with the reset button each gen). Now I don't remember an episode where Misty threatened to leave the group if Ash apologized... but I do remember the Orange Island episode where they meet one of the Gym Leaders who falls in love with Misty and asks her to stay with him. Though it was a subtle thing on Ash's part, Ash did have to fight to get Misty to decide to stay with the group (of her own choice, showing growth in her character where she probably would have gladly stayed were it early Season 1 Misty). But I think that's beside the point being made here so let's move on.

Don't see what Serena's Pokemon have anything to do with her being able to make a cameo or not. Heck, Pancham loves getting into mischief which could work pretty good for gags.
It's easier to agree.

I just wish they did at least a side arc of Iris. I have the perfect compromise... Iris meets Serena. Serena would be the bridge to Iris, it would kill 2 birds with one stone and since it wouldn't include ash, they wouldn't have to worry about Ash personality continuity. (Bonnie, sorry Clemont didn't give you much air time in the Clemont meets Cilan side arc episode).

Also, one small nitpick, gen 6 ash is generic anime character? I think Alolan ash is generic anime character: naruto, one piece, early going dbz, even sailor moon gag funny moments by the protagonist. Zoom in on facial expressions and all. But regardless, anything popular is generic so there is. O "original" only different character tropes...
 

Pikachu315111

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It's easier to agree.

I just wish they did at least a side arc of Iris. I have the perfect compromise... Iris meets Serena. Serena would be the bridge to Iris, it would kill 2 birds with one stone and since it wouldn't include ash, they wouldn't have to worry about Ash personality continuity. (Bonnie, sorry Clemont didn't give you much air time in the Clemont meets Cilan side arc episode).

Also, one small nitpick, gen 6 ash is generic anime character? I think Alolan ash is generic anime character: naruto, one piece, early going dbz, even sailor moon gag funny moments by the protagonist. Zoom in on facial expressions and all. But regardless, anything popular is generic so there is. O "original" only different character tropes...
If you disagree with me it's alright to say so, we're having a friendly discussion about over-analyzing a children TV show.

Hm, well Serena is currently in Hoenn so they would need a reason to have Iris go to Hoenn. Maybe have Iris decide to go on a journey to meet all the other Dragon-type trainers, hence going to see Drake. They could have Drake attending a Pokemon Contest, or at least meeting up with Wallace for Pokemon League business, and it just so happens the Pokemon Contest that Wallace is competing/judging is one that Serena is participating in (hey, is it any more contrived than Clemont and Cilan meeting up due to a fishing competition in Lumiose City?). Don't know where the plot would go from there, would be fun if a rivalry stirred up between the two (I always imagined that Iris would have an unnatural hate for Fairy-types, like her having an unnatural fear of Ice-types, so maybe Iris encounters Serena's Sylveon and from there things escalate to Iris and Serena participating against each other in a Pokemon Contest).

Kalos Ash is generic in the sense he has little to no faults. He's action anime hero. Alolan Ash at least has some personality, even if it does match up to some other anime protagonists. Though as I said, Alolan Ash is more like pre-Kalos Ash which is why I don't see it as them making him generic (even if it is) as that's how he originally was. In my opinion Sinnoh Ash was probably the best Ash we've had so far, balancing an experienced trainer with Ash's character faults.
 
I want Iris appear as the Champion because B2&W2 and meet Serena. Since Iris is kinda a queen in Unova, she will need some help from Serena on how to be less uh... rowdy. Then their will be hints that the two met a specific boy, but that's optional.

Also just watch the episode of Gladion with his Lycanroc. That one thing that can make the episode much better is that Lycanroc with Gladion's Darkinium-Z. I mean come on look at him. He has an Umbreon, a midnight form Lycanroc (which should be Rock/Dark) and him himself! He has his signature posture that is still good.
Even I can't make a very serious and scary pose like him. Wishing he goes to MeleMele Island to meet Lillie and get the Darkinium-Z .
 
If you disagree with me it's alright to say so, we're having a friendly discussion about over-analyzing a children TV show.

Hm, well Serena is currently in Hoenn so they would need a reason to have Iris go to Hoenn. Maybe have Iris decide to go on a journey to meet all the other Dragon-type trainers, hence going to see Drake. They could have Drake attending a Pokemon Contest, or at least meeting up with Wallace for Pokemon League business, and it just so happens the Pokemon Contest that Wallace is competing/judging is one that Serena is participating in (hey, is it any more contrived than Clemont and Cilan meeting up due to a fishing competition in Lumiose City?). Don't know where the plot would go from there, would be fun if a rivalry stirred up between the two (I always imagined that Iris would have an unnatural hate for Fairy-types, like her having an unnatural fear of Ice-types, so maybe Iris encounters Serena's Sylveon and from there things escalate to Iris and Serena participating against each other in a Pokemon Contest).

Kalos Ash is generic in the sense he has little to no faults. He's action anime hero. Alolan Ash at least has some personality, even if it does match up to some other anime protagonists. Though as I said, Alolan Ash is more like pre-Kalos Ash which is why I don't see it as them making him generic (even if it is) as that's how he originally was. In my opinion Sinnoh Ash was probably the best Ash we've had so far, balancing an experienced trainer with Ash's character faults.
In her special Iris was last seen following Rayquaza.

I'd love Iris to return. She'd be so much better than Ryuki at showing off Devasting Drake to further progress in her goal (and also that Alolan Exeggutor would be a perfect addition for her team).
 

Pikachu315111

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In her special Iris was last seen following Rayquaza.
Huh, wonder where she was during the Mega Evolution specials which involved Rayquaza.

Anyway new confirmed episode titles:

Episode 973: Lillie, Take Good Care of Pikachu
(Everyone swap partner Pokemon for the day, Lillie being put in charge to take care of Pikachu)

Episode 974: Enter Olivia! Cry and Laugh, Island Queen!!
(Ash meets Kahuna Olivia on a trip to Akala Island)

Episode 975: We Found a Treasure! Stoutland Search!!
(Ash & co. use Stoutland Search to go treasure hunting on Akala)

Alright, so there seemed to be some truth to the rumor episodes afterall (though whether that's by luck or they they got their information confused who knows).
973 is looking to be a Lillie episode to help her overcome her touching Pokemon fear (or at the very least make her comfortable touching Pikachu and maybe everyone else's partner Pokemon). Curious if this means Ash is taking care of Shiron or if they really mixed up who got who's Pokemon (would be nice if Ash got Popplio so just for one episode he has all 3 Alola Starters; Mallow or Lana would probably be best to care for Shiron).
So Ash is meeting Olivia soon, guessing to set up Ash taking on Akala's Trials.
Speaking of which, it doesn't sound like 975 is the Jungle Trial. Seems odd after introducing Olivia they'd take a break to do a filler episode, especially one which involves a feature of one of the trials. Unless this goes in tandem with the rumors and Ash is practicing to do the Jungle Trial.
 
Is it possible that Ash won't necessarily take on the trials in order? Lana, Kiawe, and Mallow will all likely challenge Ash in the Akala arc, but Sophocles' trial probably won't take place until the Ula'Ula arc. Is Soffy still relevant by chance? The thing I liked about the Alola saga was that Ash's friends don't follow him everywhere, unlike Serena, Clemont, and Bonnie.

EDIT: It's nice to know that they're just being dragged along because of a field trip. Speaking of the story, has the anime been nothing but humor like the Yo-kai Watch anime lately? At least Digimon Universe Appli Monsters is doing well with the combat as of Episode 31.
 
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Is it possible that Ash won't necessarily take on the trials in order? Lana, Kiawe, and Mallow will all likely challenge Ash in the Akala arc, but Sophocles' trial probably won't take place until the Ula'Ula arc.
Maybe. I don't think it will happen.

Is Soffy still relevant by chance? The thing I liked about the Alola saga was that Ash's friends don't follow him everywhere, unlike Serena, Clemont, and Bonnie.
They're not really following him, the whole group has had to go to Akala for a school class/trip. Regardless of whether it's a class or trip, the point is the rest of the group is being forced there by simply being a part of the school and not blindly following Ash

(personally I'm excited for it as we can see more of Alola, have Kiawe's family and finally have more Mallow by focusing on her advertising her cafeteria and making it the #1 cafe in Alola).

Sophocles isn't all that relevant right now (at least to me). But he did catch a Charjabug! Granted it was a farewell gift from Ash when he thought Sophocles was leaving but like yeah.
 

Champion Leon

Banned deucer.
For Iris returning as Champion that would make sense. Is B2W2 2 years later? Assuming each region is 1 year, that would make this nearing 2 years at the end of this anime. Maybe once Ash wins (seriously the sun and moon games make the protagonist the first champion like Kanto should have been), he can face off other league champions like Iris, and he can show her Z-moves, once she has mastered Mega Evolution.

By now her Gible would evolve into a Garchomp that can Mega Evolve, she has a rivalry with Cynthia and her Garchomp, and thinks she is an expert for Garchomp's ability to face Steel types with its Ground moves. Her ability to read her Dragon Pokemon's thoughts aids her in battle, which is what got her to be champion, but upon meeting Serena she learns the important of not favoring her Dragon type over her other Pokémon, seeing how only her Excadrill can defeat her Sylvion, and her Emolga is able to defeat either of Serena's other 2 Pokémon.

It would also be great by continuing the history of former travelers whom capture a Pokémon in a side quest episode, like Misty, Iris, etc. giving an excuse for Serena to expand her collection, rematch Iris and put up a good fight.

Iris has so much potential based on the games and previous episodes. Alolan Exeggutor would be perfect for her based on the reasons I already stated, and maybe because of Serena, they could, as friends whom bond, visit Ash together. Her Dragonite would give an excuse to have Ash's Charizard return, surprising everyone else, and while there visiting Ash, Irish can catch the Alolan Exeggutor before Ash decides what his next journey will be.

She could even battle against Turtonator for a Dragon vs dragon themed battle! Or finally see ash mega evolve one of his Pokémon, (maybe Charizard X for the dragon typing).

I would love to see a Pokémon battle with mega evolution vs z-moves. Maybe Dragonite with Devastating Drake used against Mega Charizard.

Ironically, ash caught a Gible too, back in sinnoh, with this maybe he could finally have something in common with Iris... like seriously... and lol I almost forgot about little Axew, it can evolve 1 stage, just so it shows some growth, and maybe since is a pure dragon type it can be an example of the advantages and disadvantages of not having 2 types (Dragonite is weak to rock, and extra weak to ice), and showcase "everyone is averaged out for their strengths and weaknesses, so in the end we are all equal".

Lol it could be a lesson of the day for the school (by then) graduates.
 
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Episode 975: We Found a Treasure! Stoutland Search!!
Oooooh, so it didn't actually die?! Whaaat
(Ash & co. use Stoutland Search to go treasure hunting on Akala)
Oh... :(

Anyways... this one scene in SM #29 was soo legit


And btw Anime!Iris was nothing like her game's counterpart. Her anime self was a insufferable little brat comparable to, if not worse than Misty. Glad she's gone and that she didn't ruin XY by having her special before the seasn was over. That's all.
 

Champion Leon

Banned deucer.
Oooooh, so it didn't actually die?! Whaaat

Oh... :(

Anyways... this one scene in SM #29 was soo legit


And btw Anime!Iris was nothing like her game's counterpart. Her anime self was a insufferable little brat comparable to, if not worse than Misty. Glad she's gone and that she didn't ruin XY by having her special before the seasn was over. That's all.
Unfortunately Iris was younger than Ash, all girls beside Misty were 10 year olds as was Ash at his starting point (not counting Bonnie).

I think it's about Iris being older and more mature now. No one thought Misty was immature when she made her cameos either as side arcs or in the official anime storyline (Togepi arc).

People change, having her show the growth and change would be the reason to bring her back. If Misty was so bad, why did they replace Brock with Tracey and keep Misty? Misty carried the Orange Islands. ;)
 
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Iris being different in the anime being completely different is nothing surprising given that Anime characters in general tend to be either slightly off or completely different characters resembling their game counterpart in name only.

Also, being bratty is still preferrable over the complete non-presence of Dawn. Also, has Serena ever shown any character beyond "I love Ash?"
 

Champion Leon

Banned deucer.
Iris being different in the anime being completely different is nothing surprising given that Anime characters in general tend to be either slightly off or completely different characters resembling their game counterpart in name only.

Also, being bratty is still preferrable over the complete non-presence of Dawn. Also, has Serena ever shown any character beyond "I love Ash?"
I agree, Misty, Iris and even May stuck up for themselves against ash. Ash didn't have to respect them, he knew his place and was afraid of them.

Dawn, Serena and even Bonnie look up to Ash and we're supporting characters, May wouldn't ask ash for help bc she wanted to be a good role model for max and grew faster than ash given her journey was shorter during her time, I mean tieing against ash in the contest finals means she matched ash in less than half the time of traveling.

Iris has her own journey, and like May and Misty is associated with the league whether champion (Iris) or being gym leader (Misty) or related to gym leaders (may's father/Misty sisters). They travel because they have something to prove to their family, while Ash travels to have something to do. While Iris doesn't have family she does have a history with her school and the skill to put up fights against Drake and Clair without much training.

Seeing Iris face those 2 makes her interesting because she is tough, and has just a few Pokémon... I don't think Serena even with Sylveon, or Dawn with Mamoswine could face them like Iris can, even with the type advantage. Misty with Gyarados and May with Blaziken wouldn't bat an eyelash. And Ash is believe it or not a bad trainer, with good Pokémon. A special Pikachu, a special Greninja-Ash, a badass Sceptile, but on a bad trainer... he might be special for having them, but he doesn't know how to battle like a champion.

And if you say Battle Frontier... 3 rematches.
Orange Islands... he used Taurus after having never trained it, the Taurus is tough but not for being trained on Ash's team. Lol, it was his surprisingly good wild card for having Not been stuck with Ash all this time.
 
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Pikachu315111

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After today's episode where everyone swaps Pokemon, she can now touch Pikachu.


... Okay, so I think I solved Lillie's Pokemon problem: force her to spend a day with a Pokemon. Because that's all she apparently needs to get over her phobia of a certain Pokemon.

Yeah, I don't quite agree with this choice. For one thing it makes Lillie's relationship with Snowy feel less significant. Not because she's can now touch other Pokemon, but rather the way they did it. With Snowy, it was because they shared a life harrowing event, Snowy falling off a cliff and Lillie jumping after it to save it. It makes sense both would become close after that, seeing how much they care for one another in the face of danger. Meanwhile in this episode, all Lillie did was use Pikachu in battle against her butler's Oricorio and after winning was able to hug it. That... seems a bit weak. Like, if you want to show she's slowly opening back up to Pokemon, you can have her be able to pet Pikachu though then have Pikachu go for a hug and she freezes, showing she fully can't touch a Pokemon other than Snowy who she shares a close relation with.

Also it makes her having the phobia seem pointless if she can get over it that quickly. This phobia of Pokemon should come with major consequences, especially for a character who often gets involved in Pokemon based adventures. While they wouldn't do this, there could have been something like during a critical moment in the future a Pokemon is hurt/captured and Lillie is the only one that can heal/free it. However, due to her phobia, she can't just bring herself to help which results the Pokemon to get seriously hurt or unable to escape (which results the Pokemon spending a long time recovering or having to plan a more difficult rescue mission). However, this phobia is more being treated like a character quirk than anything serious, thus furthering making her relationship with Snowy feel less significant.

And it's not like Pokemon didn't have characters with Pokemon phobia before. In EP090 "Stage Fight!", CotD (Character of the Day) Kay was initially afraid of getting shocked by her Raichu, causing it unable to perform in her family's Pokemon show cause it was afraid of hurting her. In the 7th movie, Destiny Deoxys, CotD Tory was afraid of Pokemon after being almost stampeded by a group of Sealeo & Walrein. While nothing major came out of it, it did result in Ash losing a tag battle in a stadium. Both Kay and Tory got over their phobia, but there is also a character who didn't. In EP206 "Th Joy of Water Pokemon", there's a Nurse Joy who's afraid of Water-type Pokemon (working in a Pokemon Center that specializes in Water Pokemon care; this also greatly angered Misty who was initially excited to visiting this Pokemon Center). She has to use a special suit in order to "touch" them (sound familiar?). Well at the climax of the episode a Gyarados got hurt and was going on a rampage, Joy's suit being destroyed during it. Despite this, she still approached the Gyarados and comforted it until Chansey was able to get a brace on it. Then afterwards she fainted and at the end of the episode still said she's afraid of Water-type Pokemon but she's not going to let that prevent her from doing her job (and Misty starts respecting her for that). All these cases of Pokemon phobia came with a consequence of sorts and in one case a character didn't recover from their phobia. It made their phobia feel to have a bit more impact, them getting over it or dealing with it feeling like it was a accomplishment for that character.

Now that we know Lillie just needs to spend a day with a Pokemon to get over her phobia of it, kind of lessens any significant development they could have done with her (especially if they ever start following the game's storyline. Imagine if the reason Lillie keeps Nebby in the bag not only because she's hiding it but also she can't bring herself to touch Nebby, thus why it keeps escaping? That would have been an interesting place to take things).
 
After today's episode where everyone swaps Pokemon, she can now touch Pikachu.


... Okay, so I think I solved Lillie's Pokemon problem: force her to spend a day with a Pokemon. Because that's all she apparently needs to get over her phobia of a certain Pokemon.

Yeah, I don't quite agree with this choice. For one thing it makes Lillie's relationship with Snowy feel less significant. Not because she's can now touch other Pokemon, but rather the way they did it. With Snowy, it was because they shared a life harrowing event, Snowy falling off a cliff and Lillie jumping after it to save it. It makes sense both would become close after that, seeing how much they care for one another in the face of danger. Meanwhile in this episode, all Lillie did was use Pikachu in battle against her butler's Oricorio and after winning was able to hug it. That... seems a bit weak. Like, if you want to show she's slowly opening back up to Pokemon, you can have her be able to pet Pikachu though then have Pikachu go for a hug and she freezes, showing she fully can't touch a Pokemon other than Snowy who she shares a close relation with.

Also it makes her having the phobia seem pointless if she can get over it that quickly. This phobia of Pokemon should come with major consequences, especially for a character who often gets involved in Pokemon based adventures. While they wouldn't do this, there could have been something like during a critical moment in the future a Pokemon is hurt/captured and Lillie is the only one that can heal/free it. However, due to her phobia, she can't just bring herself to help which results the Pokemon to get seriously hurt or unable to escape (which results the Pokemon spending a long time recovering or having to plan a more difficult rescue mission). However, this phobia is more being treated like a character quirk than anything serious, thus furthering making her relationship with Snowy feel less significant.

And it's not like Pokemon didn't have characters with Pokemon phobia before. In EP090 "Stage Fight!", CotD (Character of the Day) Kay was initially afraid of getting shocked by her Raichu, causing it unable to perform in her family's Pokemon show cause it was afraid of hurting her. In the 7th movie, Destiny Deoxys, CotD Tory was afraid of Pokemon after being almost stampeded by a group of Sealeo & Walrein. While nothing major came out of it, it did result in Ash losing a tag battle in a stadium. Both Kay and Tory got over their phobia, but there is also a character who didn't. In EP206 "Th Joy of Water Pokemon", there's a Nurse Joy who's afraid of Water-type Pokemon (working in a Pokemon Center that specializes in Water Pokemon care; this also greatly angered Misty who was initially excited to visiting this Pokemon Center). She has to use a special suit in order to "touch" them (sound familiar?). Well at the climax of the episode a Gyarados got hurt and was going on a rampage, Joy's suit being destroyed during it. Despite this, she still approached the Gyarados and comforted it until Chansey was able to get a brace on it. Then afterwards she fainted and at the end of the episode still said she's afraid of Water-type Pokemon but she's not going to let that prevent her from doing her job (and Misty starts respecting her for that). All these cases of Pokemon phobia came with a consequence of sorts and in one case a character didn't recover from their phobia. It made their phobia feel to have a bit more impact, them getting over it or dealing with it feeling like it was a accomplishment for that character.

Now that we know Lillie just needs to spend a day with a Pokemon to get over her phobia of it, kind of lessens any significant development they could have done with her (especially if they ever start following the game's storyline. Imagine if the reason Lillie keeps Nebby in the bag not only because she's hiding it but also she can't bring herself to touch Nebby, thus why it keeps escaping? That would have been an interesting place to take things).
I like to think that it was Lillie's first real battle and victory as a trainer that caused the sudden rush of emotion even if it was Pikachu and not Shiron (and no I never count TR battles as development, at least try not too).

But I would agree that it devalues her Shiron bond if they just stick say Amamaiko with her and she's fine now.

I'm hoping she's still not OK with wild Pokémon but the classmates (maybe even just Pikachu) she's OK being in close proximity too. I would be interested in seeing whether she's OK holding Cosmog if that's the case. As in she's familiar enough with the classroom Mons but wild Mons are complete strangers.
 

Champion Leon

Banned deucer.
I like to think that it was Lillie's first real battle and victory as a trainer that caused the sudden rush of emotion even if it was Pikachu and not Shiron (and no I never count TR battles as development, at least try not too).

But I would agree that it devalues her Shiron bond if they just stick say Amamaiko with her and she's fine now.

I'm hoping she's still not OK with wild Pokémon but the classmates (maybe even just Pikachu) she's OK being in close proximity too. I would be interested in seeing whether she's OK holding Cosmog if that's the case. As in she's familiar enough with the classroom Mons but wild Mons are complete strangers.
I disagree. Sometimes people surprise themselves with how comfortable they are. Someone might be afraid of getting on a bicycle without training wheels, and only trust their parents to push the bicycle from behind but when they hear their parents shouting from the distance "look at you now!" and realize that they are riding it on their own, they see that they have already proven to themselves what they are capable of and gladly and proudly peddle onwards.

Sometimes skipping from fear to success without overthinking the middle gets people to do things they wouldn't have normally done had they focused on facing their fear step by step.
 
My thoughts to the Lillie discussion:

1. I'm already 100% convinced that there's no chance Nebby will make it into the anime, save for maybe two episodes tops - Nebby was specifically designed to fill the mascot Pokémon role in-game just like Togepi, Piplup and Axew (among others) used to in the anime. Like most legendaries, any involvement (or screentime) of them might be delegated to the inevitable movie.

2. With this episode, the anime basically confirms that this character is basically Lillie in name only. In Sun & Moon, Lillie outright rejects the position of being a Pokémon Trainer, as she always fears Pokémon getting hurt. It's such a major part of her character to detest battling that even after becoming confident with her own brand of Z Power, she still refuses to use Pokémon for battle. Not to mention that despite her meek demeanor, she's a lot more confident and adventurous than she appears, having rescued Nebby from Aether, crossing Vast Poni Canyon entirely by herself (Nebby wasn't in a state where it could've done anything and she didn't want the player to help her either) and even taking part in saving her mother from Ultra Space. She even went away with the player after their champion victory to visit Tapu Koko.

3. I'm also not surprised at the Anime botching character development, depth or consistency - the one-off characters tend to gain more development than the leads!
 
it was because they shared a life harrowing event, Snowy falling off a cliff and Lillie jumping after it to save it.
Uhh... no. It was a wall, and far from being a "life harrowing event" lol. It only looked bad because she was dumb enough to jump headfirst. Anyway, there's still more than enough time for Lillie's storyline to unfold imo and they're definitely going somewhere with it, otherwise they wouldn't have thrown shade at her relationship with Lusamine several episodes ago. But really, I wouldn't be surprised if Solgaleo & Lunala are pushed aside in favor of something else. Xerneas and Yveltal also didn't play a major role in the anime despite being pivotal elements to XY after all.
 

Champion Leon

Banned deucer.
Uhh... no. It was a wall, and far from being a "life harrowing event" lol. It only looked bad because she was dumb enough to jump headfirst. Anyway, there's still more than enough time for Lillie's storyline to unfold imo and they're definitely going somewhere with it, otherwise they wouldn't have thrown shade at her relationship with Lusamine several episodes ago. But really, I wouldn't be surprised if Solgaleo & Lunala are pushed aside in favor of something else. Xerneas and Yveltal also didn't play a major role in the anime despite being pivotal elements to XY after all.
Maybe the life harrowing event was being attacked by Team Rocket. Since Team rocket wont hesitate to have their Pokémon attack humans both Lillie and her Vulpix were in danger (leading up to the wall).

It's kind of like when Iris bonded with Excadrill... against Team Rocket.

Come to think of it, I would love to see Iris be the total opposite of Lillie and become her friend. Her outgoing and adventurous nature would help Lillie break out of her phobia and her awkwardness, in general. Can't wait to see her face her mother down the line. She better be ready by then!
 
After several fillers, are we finally getting to the Akala Arc this Thursday? Wishiwashi-School, Marowak-Alola, and Lurantis appear in the second opening, so could this mean the arc fatigue was just an early-story thing? BW was guilty of ending fatigue due to its speed, probably because BW was rewritten entirely right after Burgh's Gym battle.
 
After several fillers, are we finally getting to the Akala Arc this Thursday? Wishiwashi-School, Marowak-Alola, and Lurantis appear in the second opening, so could this mean the arc fatigue was just an early-story thing? BW was guilty of ending fatigue due to its speed, probably because BW was rewritten entirely right after Burgh's Gym battle.
Maybe. The problem with the MeleMele Island Arc is that nothing really happens in there besides one island trial and the Kahuna battle, so they had to fill the void with "fluff" since they couldn't have the anime moving too fast ( remember that the anime usually reaches its climax by the time a new generation is coming up, and SM are supposed to last at least until late 2018 ). Akala Island however, has a lot of stuff happening: 3 Island Trials; a possible introduction to the Aether Foundation, Professor Burnet & the Ultra Wormholes and the Kahuna Battle. So yeah, I don't expect it to be as slow as MeleMele was.
 
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