Gen 3 Gen 3 OU: Spikes Stall w/ Dusclops

[OOF_MAXIMA]

This was the first team I put together for the ladder, and after playing with it a while I wanted to know what you all thought of it:

Skarmory @ Leftovers
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spikes
- Protect
- Toxic
- Roar

The standard Spikes setter. It offers much needed physical staying power, though this team isn't too lacking in that department. Also the only user of Toxic on the team. The premise is like most Skarmory in spikes teams: lay Spikes, Toxic + Protect to deal with annoying defensive checks or bulky threats and chip heal back up, and Roar to force Spikes chip damage.

Claydol @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 40 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Earthquake
- Psychic
- Explosion

I opted to make Claydol as sturdy as possible to better deal with defensive Gengar Ice Punch or mixed / Ice coverage on special threats. It is also the team's main Rock resist. This Claydol drops Refresh due to the presence of Heal Bell Blissey as a teammate, helping it against Skarmory, Jirachi, or Flygon by stomaching a Toxic and having the luxury of sticking around. Explosion -> Dugtrio functions as targeted removal if Spikes are not an issue, or in emergencies.

Dugtrio @ Choice Band
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Aerial Ace
- Hidden Power [Bug]
- Sunny Day

Dug is here to help eliminate dangerous setup sweepers and enablers, like DD Tyranitar, CM Baton Pass Celebi, and Heracross, which can become threatening very quickly if either Skarmory or Suicune can't safely pivot in and phase them out. Pursuit Tyranitar is also a prime Dugtrio target, made easier by Dusclops having great bulk and being able to safely pivot to it in the face of Pursuit or Crunch. Sunny Day is used to eliminate sand once Tyranitar is down, drastically increasing the bulk of teammates like defensive Suicune, Dusclops, and Blissey.

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Def / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
- Rest
- Calm Mind
- Surf
- Roar

Suicune is a straightforward defensive powerhouse that can easily snowball once the opponent's main offensive threats are taken down and it doesn't have to soak up hits. Heal Bell lets this Suicune Rest without sacrificing too much momentum. Roar is nice to deal Spikes chip and potentially force out answers that try to switch in and ruin your Calm Mind fun, like enemy Suicune, Zapdos, or Celebi.

Blissey @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Ice Beam
- Heal Bell
- Soft-Boiled
- Fire Blast

This Blissey is more offensively oriented, able to threaten Skarmory and OHKO Forretress, Salamence and Flygon, deal with Breloom trying to Substitute in front of you, chip Celebi coming in to potentially allow an entry point for Dugtrio, and many more. Heal Bell lets Dusclops and Suicune rest with ease, and also erases Burn, Paralyze, and Toxic poison that hamper the long-term survivability of teammates. As the main special wall on the team, I figured it would make a decent counter to enemy Spikes teams that want to pivot in and setup on you.

Dusclops @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 96 Def / 160 SpD
Impish Nature
- Rest
- Will-O-Wisp
- Shadow Ball
- Imprison

Finally we have the off-meta pick of the bunch. I wanted to try a more defensive Ghost than Gengar. Dusclops can annoy just about anything bar Fire types and Guts users, consistently block and threaten most Rapid Spinners with STAB Shadow Ball, and cripple physical Pokemon with Will-O-Wisp. It can tank hits far more comfortably than Gengar, being able to 1v1 Claydol and apply pressure to Starmie. This set, pioneered by ABR, is designed to deal with Snorlax specifically. Imprison shuts down Shadow Ball and Rest. Switching in against a Snorlax using Curse ensures that you will be faster and can click Imprison with impunity; from there you can easily threaten to Burn and completely shut down the most common Curse set of Shadow Ball / Normal STAB / Curse / Rest, or easily 1v1 and wear down more offensive sets. Imprison + Rest could be a niche way of dealing with other annoyances like Mean Look + Perish Song Misdreavus, though Snorlax was the only one I used Imprison on. You block them from Resting and can potentially 2HKO Misdreavus, though the odds aren't good outside of sand.

ABR's Dusclops analysis and potential teams can be found by clicking on this link.

I had fun playing with this team as a certified Stall Enjoyer™, but it of course has plenty of weaknesses: Enemy Suicune, especially ones that outsped mine, were really hard to deal with. Going further, Special offense and CM spam teams in general could easily swing back against me trapping their threats with Dugtrio and overwhelm the rest of my team. Magneton was an annoyance, of course, as without Skarmory Suicune gets easily overwhelmed by things like Choice Band Salamence or Aerodactyl with some prior chip damage or while sleeping.

I had some ideas to improve it, the most obvious of which would be switching Fire Blast on Blissey and Dusclops for a Fire Punch / TBolt / Taunt Gengar that didn't care about Spikes and could threaten the Calm Minders or other defensive mons with coverage and Taunt a lot more consistently.

What say you?

 

[johnnyg2]

Yeah there are a number of problems with taking Abr’s team and making the changes you made. Let’s start w the changes you made and then we can discuss why this specific version of his team became a lot more uncommon.

First off, Toxic doesn't really work for a number of reason on Skarmory lead for this specific team. You need an attacking move such as Drill Peck (what he used) or maybe Hidden Power Steel to help you with Aero and physical Tar, or else Rest or Refresh Claydol or Forretress become highly annoying for you without the ability to actively pressure them. While you do very well pressuring Starmie and non-Refresh Claydol, you already do this with the rest of your team, especially with Dusclops. If your goal was to pressure zapdos with Toxic, you already highly struggle with it, it could Sub, and your goal should be to get a Spike up to allow Blissey to KO most Dugtrios with Ice Beam rather than Toxic it.

I also would not recommend Explosion on Claydol and would go back to Abr's original Rest. While having the escape valve is very nice and you have Heal Bell support in substitute for Refresh, the team really needs Claydol to Rapid Spin throughout the game against defensive teams due to how Spikes weak Blissey, Dugtrio, Suicune, and Dusclops are and the fact you dont actively pressure Drill Peck Skarmory. I also would recommend sticking with his original specially defensive spread, as you need to be able to pressure Gengar and without Sassy, Claydol struggles to do so. What if you can't get off a Heal Bell with Blissey?

Dug, Dusclops, and Suicune are fine, but the main reason I wanted to comment on your post is because you cannot afford to drop Seismic Toss for Fire Blast on Blissey. You must have Seismic Toss; the corollary benefit for occasionally hitting Forretress when your opp doesn't scout is absolutely not worth dropping Seismic Toss. You already punish Forretress teams with the Dusclops -> Dugtrio switch on Pursuit Tar and then spinblock them all day. You struggle with Suicune because you dropped Seismic Toss. You largely struggle with Calm Mind offense because you dropped Seismic Toss. While such a set is known and might fit more offensive teams, you cannot afford that here. Just stick with Seismic Toss.

The Dusclops version of this team has become more uncommon for a few reasons. The first and foremost is it really struggles to deal with Aerodactyl backed by Spikes. The best check against Aero in sand is Claydol (who can't really deal with it) and the Spikes vulnerable Suicune, who are both 3HKOed in sand. Additionally, Zapdos + Dugtrio is very challenging for you to deal with, especially if you don't Spike t1 against it. Losing Blissey is almost certainly game over against special offense. While Dusclops can be highly effective in some match ups, it mandates the support structure you have here, and it doesnt provide enough benefits otherwise.

This team can absolutely be successful, I could see myself using Abr's team in a tour game. I very often use a version of this team with Zapdos > Dusclops, while there are many fillers in the dusclops slot that work with Milotic > Suicune and potentially a Calm Mind Blissey. You can also replace the Dugtrio with Aero, and potentially Dusclops with Sableye that is more aggressive and can fit Explosion on Claydol. Skarmory + Dugtrio is a very powerful playstyle, and I hope this was helpful to you!

 

[OOF_MAXIMA]

Thanks for the thorough breakdown!

I didnt actually look at ABR's team when making this and just freeballed it around that Dusclops; thats why so many things are off base there.

This helps me understand how to fit together extra moveslots for defensive teams, going to take your advice and see how it goes ^^