DP Drapion

[sbc]

This is my first peer-edit, so apologies for anything inappropriate. I've tried out this Drapion set, designed for OU and so far it has functioned well.

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/drapion

[SET]
name: Utility Special Counter
move 1: Crunch
move 2: Earthquake / Toxic Spikes / Whirlwind
move 3: Rest
move 4: Sleep Talk
item: Leftovers
ability: Battle Armor
nature: Careful
evs: 252 HP / 12 Atk / 244 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Drapion's base Special Defense is substantially lower than its Defense but Drapion's typing affords its useful resistances to Dark, Ghost and Grass-type attacks as well as immunity to Psychic-type attacks and thus allows it to counter a number of Special-based threats.</p>

<p>With these EVs, Drapion's HP and Special Defense reach 344 and 271 respectively. This means that a Timid Gengar can only 4HKO at best with Focus Blast, should it deal average damage. Watch out for Life Orb variants though, which 3HKO with Focus Blast, although there is only a 34% chance that Focus Blast will successfully hit 3 times in a row. With just 12 EVs invested into Attack, Gengar is OHKOed by Drapion with the average damage dealt by Crunch.</p>

<p>Azelf and Deoxys-S are two threats that Drapion can also take on, thanks to immunity to their STAB attacks, with Azelf only able to deal a maximum of 77% damage after a Nasty Plot from a Life Orbed Flamethrower and Deoxys-S only mustering a maximum of 33% damage with Life Orb from Ice Beam or Thunderbolt. Moreover, Deoxys-S' Superpower is a 5HKO with average damage thanks to the continual Attack drops.</p>

<p>Crunch provides a reliable STAB attack, and hits the aforementioned Pokemon for Super Effective damage and is supplemented by Earthquake to provide good coverage in tandem as well as turning Drapion into a good counter for the Boah variants of Tyranitar and also Calm Mind Jirachi. Furthermore, Earthquake is a deterrent for the likes of Heatran and Lucario. Toxic Spikes and Whirlwind are two options that could replace Earthquake. In the case of the former, with Drapion's multiple resistances, it is relatively easy to find time to set up layers of Toxic Spikes whereas Whirlwind enables Drapion to phaze out bulkier threats and scout the opponent's team.</p>

<p>Rest and Sleep Talk provide Drapion with the durability to repeatedly counter the threats for which he is tailored to do so and is also helpful for soaking Sleep-inducing attacks from Pokemon in both OU and UU that carry these attacks regularly such as Gengar, Roserade, Hypno and Vileplume, all of which are Pokemon that Drapion can wall relatively easily.</p>

 

[kd24]

I think I have used rest-stalk drapion before in ou and it worked pretty well

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Drapion's base Special Defense is substantially lower than its Defense but thanks to its typing, particularly its neutrality to Fighting-type attacks, Drapion is able to counter a number of special-based threats.</p>

<p>With these EVs, Drapion's Special Defense reaches 273 and its HP, 344. This means that a Timid Gengar can only 4HKO at best with Focus Blast, should it deal average damage. Watch out for Life Orb variants, which 3HKO with Focus Blast, although there is only a 34% chance that Focus Blast will hit successfully 3 times in a row.</p>

<p>Azelf and Deoxys-s are also threats that Drapion can easily take on, thanks to immunity to both of their STAB attacks, with Azelf only able to deal a maximum of 77% damage after a Nasty Plot Life Orbed Flamethrower and Deoxys-s can only muster a maximum of 32% damage with Life Orb from Ice Beam or Thunderbolt. Superpower is also a 5HKO at best thanks to the continual Attack drops.</p>

<p>Crunch provides a powerful STAB attack, and hits the aforementioned pokemon for Super effective damage. It is supplemented by Earthquake to provide good coverage as well as making Drapion into a good counter for the Boah variants of Tyranitar. Rest and Sleep Talk provide Drapion the durability to repeatedly counter the threats for which he is tailored to do so and is also helpful for soaking up Gengar's Hypnosis.</p>

 

[sbc]

made most of those edits

 

[kd24]

Drapion's base Special Defense is substantially lower than its Defense but thanks to its typing, particularly its neutrality to Fighting-type attacks, means that Drapion

This part stills seem strange to me because if something is inbetween commas it means it can be removed from the sentence. Obviously in this case it can be. However taking it out we get the sentence:

Drapion's base Special Defense is substantially lower than its Defense but thanks to its typing, means that Drapion

See why that seems really strange to me? Even with that interchangable sentence in, it still reads like that. However if we remove "means that" we get:

Drapion's base Special Defense is substantially lower than its Defense but thanks to its typing, Drapion

That definitely sounds a lot better to me. I would seriously consider making that change.

 

[matty]

Yep, looks good. Just a few things to point out.

-Since Drapion is mostly played for UU, I'd think about adding like (OU) in the title to easily allow people to understand that its meant for that metagame. (Unless you wish for it to function as well in UU, however the comments lead me to believe it was solely for OU).
-I've used a STalking set with Toxic Spikes and since this is a Special Wall/Tank of sorts it might not make sense, but it does add to the "Utility aspect"

Aside from those minor details, not much else probably needs to be done except for a bit more editing which I'm sure others will help with.

 

[sbc]

Re KinglerDude, my original sentence made sense but after adding the "thanks to" it didn't anymore. Re-editing now.

Re: Matty, I'll add the OU part now, I'm not sure how it functions in UU, but it's definitely tailored for OU. I'm not sure if it's worth adding the Toxic Spikes as an option, from experience EQ is neccesary to stop you being Lucario, Heatran and Ttar fodder.

 

[matty]

Re KinglerDude, my original sentence made sense but after adding the "thanks to" it didn't anymore. Re-editing now.

Re: Matty, I'll add the OU part now, I'm not sure how it functions in UU, but it's definitely tailored for OU. I'm not sure if it's worth adding the Toxic Spikes as an option, from experience EQ is neccesary to stop you being Lucario, Heatran and Ttar fodder.

ya the TS thing wasn't a big deal. I understand that in OU it would make more sense. Along with this, you probably would be using a different set if just using Toxic Spikes anyway. I'd like to see testing done in UU with it. (Will try it out on my next team and I'll report back...)

For the (OU) thing, look here for example of how they did it: http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/nidoqueen
They put the OU in brackets and at the end. Hope that helps

 

[kd24]

2 more little things here (although 1 is actually big)

Edit: Thanks bologo for reminding me of crunch. However my point still stands that Crunch will not always 2HKO.

I then used Roserades HP Fire on Drapion as it is her strongest attack:

Defender HP: 344   
Move Damage: 66 - 77
Damage: 19.19% - 22.38%

So why do I mention this? Well one, with roserade being one of the most common users of Sleep Powder in OU this simply has to be mentioned that Roserade will 6HKO you while you can easily 2hko-3HKO with Crunch.

But I also thought "Well hey why not actually use some Attack EVs?" If we were to use a spread of like 252 HP / 16 Atk / 240 SpD with a Careful Nature does it change any of the kills? Deoxys-S wont change damage and will easily be defeated. Infact you will actually ohko with crunch. Gengars Focus Blast will still 4hko and 3hko with life orb. You also will ohko with crunch (hopefully). Azelf still wont ohko with Life Orb nasty Plot Flamethrower. And these Attack EVs actually turn a few 3hkos into 2hkos 100% of the time like Roserade and I think but im not sure, mesprit (Someone tell me, I think my damage calc accidently messed this up.)

Just a little EV concern.

 

[Bologo]

2 more little things here (although 1 is actually big)

I did damage calcs and found that Drapions Earthquake did this much on a standard Roserade:

Defender HP: 262   
Move Damage: 108 - 127
Damage: 41.22% - 48.47%

Why wouldn't you just use Crunch on Roserade? It does 49.62% - 58.40%. Which is almost a definite 2HKO compared to Earthquake. Don't forget that Crunch gets STAB. This is with only 4 Atk EVs.

 

[kd24]

Shit completely slipped my mind. But even with that in mind, I think it still overshoots damage a bit and even if it didnt there is a small small chance you wouldnt 2hko. I still would put a few more attack evs in even just 16 then to get the 2hko 100% of the time.

edit: 252 HP / 16 Atk / 240 SpD is the new spread I came up with jsut to always 2HKO Roserade with Crunch.

 

[Phuquoph]

Drapion is actually a good switch-in on a lot of sleep inducers, both in OU (Gengar, Roserade) and UU (Hypno, Vileplume). You don't need to gear this towards one specific tier, since it will work just fine in both. Rest makes Drapion a safer switch-in against Rotom, since you can Rest off status.

<p>Drapion's base Special Defense is substantially lower than its Defense but thanks to its typing, particularly its neutrality to Fighting-type attacks, Drapion is able to counter a number of Special-based threats.</p>

Psychic immunity and Dark/Ghost resist are also a big help.

<p>Azelf and Deoxys-s are two threats that Drapion can also take on, thanks to immunity to their STAB attacks, with Azelf only able to deal a maximum of 77% damage after a Nasty Plot from a Life Orbed Flamethrower and Deoxys-s only mustering a maximum of 32% damage with Life Orb from Ice Beam or Thunderbolt. Moreover, its Superpower is a 5HKO with average damage thanks to the continual Attack drops.</p>

Crunch won't OHKO Azelf, even after Life Orb damage.

 

[Juuka]

<p>Azelf and Deoxys-S are two threats that Drapion can also take on, thanks to its immunity to their STAB attacks, with Azelf only able to deal a maximum of 77% damage after a Nasty Plot from a Life Orbed Flamethrower and Deoxys-s only mustering a maximum of 32% damage with Life Orb from Ice Beam or Thunderbolt. Moreover, its Superpower is a 5HKO with average damage thanks to the continual Attack drops.</p>

 

[gorm]

i actually like the idea of ts on this slashed with eq since it's cool to be able to lay them no matter what (minus taunt) and this can be brought in on a bunch of stuff anyways. kinda like the sleep talk toxic spikes lead nidoqueen that husk used once (when he ripped off my team >:| )

 

[junior]

[SET]
name: OU Utility Special Counter
move 1: Crunch
move 2: Earthquake / Whirlwind
move 3: Rest
move 4: Sleep Talk
item: Leftovers
ability: Battle Armor
nature: Careful
evs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD

I like seeing Whirlwind on bulky Drapion as it can, afterall, counter some Pokemon with boost up attacks. Jirachi, for one, could be countered with this and WW lets you phaze it away, as well as potential scouting.

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Drapion's base Special Defense is substantially lower than its Defense but thanks to its typing, particularly its neutrality to Fighting-type attacks, Drapion is able to counter a number of Special-based threats.</p>

?_? Most fighting attacks are physical, so I would use a different typing for an example, like Ghost or Grass (although Ghost is better for an example).

<p>With these EVs, Drapion's HP and Special Defense reaches 344 and 273, respectively. This means that a Timid Gengar can only 4HKO at best with Focus Blast, should it deal average damage. Watch out for Life Orb variants though, which 3HKOs with Focus Blast, although there is only a 34% chance that Focus Blast will successfully hit 3 times in a row.</p>

Didn't like how the first sentence was phrased.

<p>Azelf and Deoxys-S are two threats that Drapion can also take on, thanks to immunity to their STAB attacks, with Azelf only able to deal a maximum of 77% damage after a Nasty Plot from a Life Orbed Flamethrower and Deoxys-S only mustering a maximum of 32% damage with Life Orb from Ice Beam or Thunderbolt. Moreover, Deoxys-S' Superpower is a 5HKO with average damage thanks to the continual Attack drops.</p>

'its' can refer to either Azelf or Deo-S so it may be unclear.

<p>Crunch provides a reliable STAB attack, and hits the aforementioned Pokemon for Super Effective damage and is supplemented by Earthquake to provide good coverage in tandem, as well as turning Drapion into a good counter for the Boah variants of Tyranitar. Rest and Sleep Talk provide Drapion with the durability to repeatedly counter the threats for which he is tailored to do so and is also helpful for soaking up Gengar's Hypnosis.</p>

Crunch isn't exactly 'powerful', especially on something with no Atk EVs at all. Reliable is a better description imho.

'Making' seems awkward when in conjunction with 'into'.

 

[Earthworm]

Toxic Spikes is definitely worth mentioning as an alternative to Earthquake in my opinion, I have used the exact same set to some success (with Toxic Spikes over Earthquake).

 

[sbc]

Made a load of edits. Not OHKOing Azelf is a pain, but I'd guess that if you put enough Atk EVs to OHKO on average with LO damage, Gengar would probably end up having a chance to 2HKO with LO Focus Blast.

Adding Atk EVs for Roserade is unneeded since it can't do jack to Drapion and Crunch will 2HKO most Roserade since they usually run Sash and not leftovers.

 

[jrrrrrrr]

I was really skeptical about this set when I first looked at it, but your analysis of it is really thorough and you have me convinced. Great job.

The only minor tweak I would make is to edit it to more of a UU approach. Drapion is UU (for the time being), so even though listing its advantages against things like Azelf, Deoxys-Speed and Tyranitar are great, chances are I would be more concerned about Claydol, Aggron, Nidoking, Quagsire etc.

I would also support a few atk EVs to make sure you ohko Azelf and Gengar, unless it makes Gengar able to 2hko you with Focus Blast (even though the chance of hitting two in a row is quite low). If Azelf 2hkos you after an NP, you better make damn sure that you can OHKO it in return, since beating things like Azelf is the whole point of this set. Anything less and you might as well just use Weavile to revenge kill them.

 

[sbc]

Regarding the Atk EVs, you need 248 Atk (148 EVs) to OHKO Azelf on average with Life Orb recoil, which is significantly reduces its ability to wall.

Perhaps I shouldn't mention Azelf, although if Azelf comes into SR, Crunch on average (with 4 EVs) will OHKO after Life Orb recoil, so it's not a massive thing really.

Gengar, too, you need a lot of EVs to OHKO guaranteed, although with 12 Atk EVs you OHKO on average, so I'll add those in.

As for the UU approach, I'm not sure I'm experienced enough in DP UU to make it overly orientated towards that (although it probably does a number on Jynx). Also, I think Drapion is more of a sweeper in UU anyway. If you can help me to make it more UU-centred I will make some edits.

 

[Stellar]

Bumping this. I've been testing this and it has worked extremely well in OU. I would however, suggest that Toxic Spikes be the primary option in the second slot. I've never failed two get two layers of TSpikes up and Drapion functions as a perfect switch in to the extremely common Gengar.

I'll be waiting for a few more comments. Any opposition to putting this on the analysis soon?

 

[matty]

Bumping this. I've been testing this and it has worked extremely well in OU. I would however, suggest that Toxic Spikes be the primary option in the second slot. I've never failed two get two layers of TSpikes up and Drapion functions as a perfect switch in to the extremely common Gengar.

I'll be waiting for a few more comments. Any opposition to putting this on the analysis soon?

Ahh you beat me too this. I actually have been using this in UU as well to great effect. Pretty much a good set in both tiers. Go for it Stell