CAP Updates: Malaconda Discussion (Complete)

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dwarfstar

mindless philosopher
Nature Power is also fitting due to its third dex entry about lush forests, and I'm genuinely surprised it didn't get it.
If I remember our movepool discussions from back then correctly, Nature Power was disallowed at the time because under BW mechanics it would turn into Earthquake in link battles, and that was a coverage move that had been disallowed. In XY Game Freak majorly switched up Nature Power's mechanics and gave us the competitively useless Tri-Attack for link battles, so I'm seconding the push for Nature Power now, as it's a wonderful flavor addition. +1 to everything snake_rattler suggested as well, and I'll be back with more in a bit
 
Brutal Swing actually works on Malaconda, hooray! Serpentine Pokemon get this move, and as a bonus, Malaconda is a Dark-type. Perfect flavor fit.

Psychic Fangs is a bit too competitively useful to be considering at this point. Besides, nothing in the Grass or Dragon egg groups learn the move, meaning that Malaconda would have to get Psychic Fangs as a level-up move. It sorta rubs me the wrong way considering Bruxish is the only mon that gets it by level-up. Solar Blade is a different story however, as Malaconda can breed with Lurantis, so we could easily slide that into its egg moves if we wanted.

Power Trip doesn't seem too fitting to me. Everything that learns Power Trip has some way to boost its Attack (Swords Dance, Bulk Up, or even Hone Claws) and either is a Fighting-type or at least has Fighting-type moves like Superpower and Counter. Malaconda has none of these. It's not a very widely distributed move anyway, so I'd say leave it out.

Leafage is fine. I was originally going to say that Malaconda isn't really leafy enough compared to Decidueye and Lurantis, but against all logic, Tapu Bulu learns it, which learns no other leaf moves and has a very non-leafy design. Malaconda at least has some leaves in its design and learns Leaf Blade. We can include it if we want, but I wouldn't say we have to, as its distribution is very low.

Nature Power makes sense, and now that it's competitively useless (Tri Attack coming off of base 40 SpA lol), I think it should be added.
 

snake

is a Community Leaderis a Top CAP Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
CAP Co-Leader
I actually don't like Leafage. Let's be honest, it's GF's way of having a low powered Grass-type move that's not Vine Whip since Vine Whip makes sense on a lot of mons but not as much on others. No Pokemon learns both Vine Whip and Leafage, and since Mala gets Vine Whip, I'd rather not see this move.
 

snake

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CAP Co-Leader
Apologies for double post, but there's one more move that I'd like to advocate: Feint. The prerequisite for this move is priority; Malaconda has access to Sucker Punch. Feint would be extremely niche because it'd do little damage, and much less than Sucker Punch. Flavorwise, it seems cool that Mala can sneak its way past protective measures given its design. On mobile now, but I can provide damage calculations later if necessary.
 

cbrevan

spin, spin, spin
is a CAP Contributoris a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Everything brought up so far has seemed reasonable with the exception of Psychic Fangs. Psychic Fangs gives Malaconda new coverage that allows it to hit Fighting and Poison type checks, such as Mollux, and is therefore competitive and disallowed from Malaconda's new movepool. Nothing else seemed strange to me, so let's move on to movepool submissions. I plan to keep submissions open until Friday, so please post your final submissions within the next couple days.

Guidelines for submissions:
  • You must include every move from Malaconda's current movepool in your submission. Malaconda's full movepool can be viewed here.
  • Our ultimate goal is to update Malaconda's movepool with Gen 6 and Gen 7 additions, so please focus any new movepool additions with moves from these two generations. I won't disallow Gen 5 and older moves, but I expect good reasoning as to why Malaconda should be receiving these moves now as opposed to Gen 5.
  • You may not include any of the following moves in your submission: any Physical Fire-type coverage, any competitive Special Fire-type coverage, Will-o-Wisp, Strength Sap, Leech Seed, Coil, Parting Shot, and Psychic Fangs. In addition to these moves, anything with competitive merit that has not been discussed in this thread should not be included in your submission.
  • You must include Confide and Secret Power as Universal Moves.
  • I expect every move addition to have sufficient reasoning as to why it is included and how you decided to add it. If it was not discussed in this thread prior, please include an explanation as to how it has no competitive merit on Malaconda.
 
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snake

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CAP Co-Leader
Final Submission

- Follow Me (Heart Scale)
- Wrap
- Leer
Evolve: Rapid Spin
6 Vine Whip
10 Pursuit
15 Scary Face
20 Grass Knot
24 Sucker Punch
29 Slam
34 Leaf Blade
38 Glare
43 Crunch
48 Power Whip
52 Spiky Shield
57 Wring Out
62 Punishment
66 Solar Blade

EDIT: I never said this movepool was all over the place, I said that it's super polarized, in that it gets a ton of attacking moves in its level up pool and almost all non-attacking moves in its egg moves. Just think that it looks weird.

Because of this, I mixed up some of the egg moves and the Level Up moves. The movepool now follows a 5-4-5 pattern, with Rapid Spin as the evolution move, as Malaconda has access to it but Brattler does not.

I started by moving Wrap to Level 1 and adding Leer, which are common level 1 moves. I posted about Leer in this thread. From there, Vine Whip and Pursuit were added for weak STAB options. Scary Face was moved from Egg Moves.

EDIT2: The moves from Grass Knot to Leaf Blade are now consistent with its old movepool, and the powder moves are Egg Moves once more.

Glare goes with Leer. Crunch and Power Whip are STAB moves learned near each other in its current movepool. Spiky Shield is learned rather late, and it breaks up the string of offensive moves at the end of the movepool. Malaconda has long pointy spikes on its body in its official artwork as well. Solar Blade is a nice CAPstone move, and coincides with the level of Malaconda's current last level up move.
Aromatherapy
Beat Up
Feint (Breloom, Tsareena)
Haze
Ice Fang (Arbok, Hydreigon, Tyrantrum)
Night Slash
Stun Spore
Poison Powder
Screech
Sweet Scent
Thunder Fang (Arbok, Hydreigon, Tyrantrum)

A lot of moves got moved to Level Up because a) this Egg Moves pool was massive and I needed to add more moves and b) all those status moves are great Level Up moves. However, I moved Slam here because Slam is a dumb move and didn't fit in the level up movepool, and I added Ice Fang and Thunder Fang. Ice Fang is a good move for Malaconda, and Thunder Fang got some discussion in this thread. Malaconda can already use Wild Charge, so using this powers in its fangs works. Fang moves are common egg moves as well. Feint is a move that a good priority users have, and Malaconda has Sucker Punch. I made a post about it in this thread as well. It's not exclusive to fast users either. Hariyama, Skuntank, and Seviper get it as well.

EDIT2: Removed Poison Fang. Seeing Menshay's comment on anacondas, Poison Powder is now ban Egg Moves, as Malaconda can adapt to use Poison substances without growing the body parts to bite and inject venom. With Glare in the movepool, I'd rather have than than Stun Spore.
Bind
Foul Play
Giga Drain
Heal Bell
Iron Tail
Knock Off
Recycle
Seed Bomb
Sleep Talk
Snore
Spite
Synthesis
Worry Seed

Recycle is the only addition. Dark Pulse became a TM though.
TM05 Roar
TM06 Toxic
TM10 Hidden Power
TM11 Sunny Day
TM12 Taunt
TM15 Hyper Beam
TM17 Protect
TM21 Frustration
TM22 Solar Beam
TM27 Return
TM32 Double Team
TM42 Façade
TM44 Rest
TM45 Attract
TM46 Thief
TM48 Round
TM53 Energy Ball
TM59 Brutal Swing
TM66 Payback
TM67 Retaliate
TM68 Giga Impact
TM82 Dragon Tail
TM86 Grass Knot
TM88 Sleep Talk
TM89 U-turn
TM90 Substitute
TM93 Wild Charge
TM95 Snarl
TM96 Nature Power
TM97 Dark Pulse
TM100 Confide


Sleep Talk and Confide are universal. Nature Power makes sense with Malaconda's dex entries and is useless. Dark Pulse was a tutor move.

EDIT3: LOL forgot Brutal Swing.
Cut (Gen 5 / Gen 6 HM01)
Secret Power (ORAS TM94)
Strength (Gen 5 / Gen 6 HM04)

Secret Power is universal.
Additions:
Brutal Swing added to TM List
Confide added to TM List
Feint added to Egg Moves
Follow Me added to Level 1
Ice Fang added to Egg Moves
Leer added to Level 1
Nature Power added to TM List
Recycle added to Tutor Moves
Secret Power added to Transfer Only
Sleep Talk added to TM List
Solar Blade added to Level 66
Spiky Shield added to Level 52
Thunder Fang added to Egg Moves

Within Movepool:

Various Moves changed level.

Cut moved from HM List to Transfer Only
Dark Pulse moved from Tutor Moves to TM List
Rapid Spin moved from Level 1 to Evolve
Strength moved from HM List to Transfer Only

Glare removed from Egg Moves and added to Level Up
Scary Face removed from Egg Moves and added to Level Up

Duplications:
NONE
Overall, for this movepool to look like it's from Generation 7, I had to mix Egg Moves and Level Up moves, combined with a couple of new moves from the thread.

EDIT: Removed Incinerate. Liked it for a while but not feeling it anymore.

EDIT2: changed up a bunch of stuff in my movepool! look for the EDIT 2 tags.

EDIT3: LOL forgot Brutal Swing...
 
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Is Aqua Tail allowed? It does has a strong correlation with snakes (Seviper, Arbok and Serperior all get it) but it beats Fire-types. Poison Fang has also been mentioned; it is weak but it is super-effective against Fairy-types.
 

HeaLnDeaL

Let's Keep Fighting
is an Artistis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus
Final Submission

I'm pretty sure my movepool is the most conservative. No extra fluff. No stuff it could have gotten gen5 but that we chose for it not to get. Slight change to the level up flow so that Solar Blade could be added without distorting the normal-grass-dark patttern on the gen5 level up moves.

I'm mostly making this because I think Spiky Shield is dumb and I want to make sure there's at least one decent sub without spiky shield in it. Also, I'm not going to deal with overly flavor-fying fire elements. It's a snake with Drought, not a fire breathing snake imo.

0 Sunny Day
0 Rapid Spin
0 Vine Whip
0 Pursuit
0 Wrap
6 Pursuit
11 Wrap
15 Grass Knot
20 Sucker Punch
24 Slam
29 Leaf Blade
33 Crunch
39 Punishment
45 Power Whip
51 Foul Play
57 Wring Out
63 Solar Blade

I aimed to follow the normal-grass-dark level up flow. Pre-evo levels are a 5-4-5-4 pattern, post evo levels are a 6-6 pattern.


Aromatherapy
Beat Up
Glare
Haze
Night Slash
Poison Powder
Rapid Spin
Scary Face
Screech
Sweet Scent
Stun Spore


Gen6 Tutors

Bind
Dark Pulse
Foul Play
Giga Drain
Heal Bell
Iron Tail
Knock Off
Seed Bomb
Sleep Talk
Snore
Spite
Synthesis
Worry Seed

Don't really see any new gen6 tutors that Malaconda should get, so these are all the same.


TM05 Roar
TM06 Toxic
TM10 Hidden Power
TM11 Sunny Day
TM12 Taunt
TM15 Hyper Beam
TM17 Protect
TM21 Frustration
TM22 Solar Beam
TM27 Return
TM32 Double Team
TM42 Façade
TM44 Rest
TM45 Attract
TM46 Thief
TM48 Round
TM53 Energy Ball
TM66 Payback
TM67 Retaliate
TM68 Giga Impact
TM82 Dragon Tail
TM86 Grass Knot
TM88 Sleep Talk
TM89 U-turn
TM90 Substitute
TM93 Wild Charge
TM95 Snarl
TM96 Nature Power
TM97 Dark Pulse
TM100 Confide

Confide is universal, Nature Power seems flavorful. Dark Pulse and Sleep Talk were tutors, now are also TMs.

Cut (Gen 5 / Gen 6 HM01)
Secret Power (ORAS TM94)
Strength (Gen 5 / Gen 6 HM04)

Secret Power is universal.


Confide
Nature Power
Secret Power
Solar Blade


Thunder Fang and Ice Fang were not included because they were allowed when Malaconda was created but not chosen. The Fang Flavor is tempting, but I'd prefer to be conservative here. I think Spiky Shield is somewhat poor flavor since I don't see anything on Malaconda's body that can be used as a shield and I don't like the possible competitive implications either.
 
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LucarioOfLegends

Master Procraster
is a CAP Contributor
Final Submission (Almost done woot woot!)

- Rapid Spin
- Wrap
- Vine Whip

6 Pursuit
12 Glare
19 Grass Knot
24 Sucker Punch
30 Slam
37 Leaf Blade
42 Crunch
48 Wring Out
55 Power Whip
60 Punishment
66 Solar Blade

This moveset is actually incredibly clean as it is, as it followed the type trends of Normal-Grass-Dark for the entirety of the old moveset, and it followed a level-up trend of 5-6-6-7. However, I did have to break some type trends to fit a few things in nicely, and I was forced to break some slight trends, and I decided to change it's level progression to 5-6-7. Overall, I tried to keep the progression of its creator, but added some new stuff to its moveset to continue its flavor.

Glare actually fits very well in the early parts of its moveset due to its manipulative feel and the Ekans line once again gets it at Lvl 12 (as well as Drampa but we don't care as much about him), so it seemed like a very good fit for Malaconda's level up. Rapid Spin was made to be very clearly shown as a Heart Scale move considering the fact that it makes no sense for a snake-like Pokemon to start with it when no snake-like Pokemon get it in general. Vine Whip and Wrap were moved around to fit the Normal-Grass-Dark trend. Finally, Solar Blade was added as its last move because of its heavy correlation to Sun and Drought. It breaks the type trends, but it works well as a last move because of its flavor.

Edit: Didn't understand what snake originally meant, so I revert my statement about him

Aromatherapy
Beat Up
Haze
Ice Fang
Night Slash
Poison Powder
Scary Face
Screech
Spiky Shield (Maractus)
Stun Spore
Sweet Scent
Thunder Fang

I moved Glare to level up, so it seems redundant that it would get it again in Egg moves. Spiky Shield is a move that has gotten great support through the thread, and it makes sense flavorfully through the thorns on its body. Thunder Fang and Ice Fang are added here to maintain the typing trends of the Level Up pool, but the fangs also have great flavor and supported competitive implications.

TM05 Roar
TM06 Toxic
TM10 Hidden Power
TM11 Sunny Day
TM12 Taunt
TM15 Hyper Beam
TM17 Protect
TM21 Frustration
TM22 Solar Beam
TM27 Return
TM32 Double Team
TM42 Façade
TM44 Rest
TM45 Attract
TM46 Thief
TM48 Round
TM53 Energy Ball
TM59 Brutal Swing
TM66 Payback
TM67 Retaliate
TM68 Giga Impact
TM82 Dragon Tail
TM86 Grass Knot
TM88 Sleep Talk
TM89 U-turn
TM90 Substitute
TM93 Wild Charge
TM95 Snarl
TM96 Nature Power
TM97 Dark Pulse
TM100 Confide
Sleep Talk
is required. Nature Power no longer serves as an actual competitive move, and serves as great flavor. See no reason not to add it. Confide is universal. Dark Pulse was originally a move tutor move, but times have changed and it must now be a TM. It honestly is a sin not to give it Brutal Swing.

Bind
Foul Play
Giga Drain
Heal Bell
Iron Tail
Knock Off
Recycle
Seed Bomb
Sleep talk
Snore
Spite
Synthesis
Worry Seed

Recycle is a throwback to Harvest and its usage of fruit to manipulate its enemies, so it seemed like a meaningful addition. Dark Pulse was moved to TMs.

Cut (Gen 5 / Gen 6 HM01)
Secret Power (ORAS TM94)
Strength (Gen 5 / Gen 6 HM04)

Secret Power was universal.
 
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I would like to bring attention upon some additions which have been mentioned:
- Recycle: Z-Recycle (along with Z-Snatch and Z-Bestow which potentially fit flavour-wise) raises Speed by two stages.
- Aqua Tail: I would like some input on this as it has a strong correlation with snake Pokémon but it adds coverage against Fire-types.
- Belch: it fits with Malaconda's berry specialty and is shared by other snakes; it is outclassed by Malaconda's other options against most targets but:

0- SpA Malaconda Belch vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Bulu: 160-192 (56.9 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
(Then again, 252+ Atk Tapu Bulu Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Malaconda: 434-512 (100 - 117.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO)
 
In regards to Belch, even after Grassy Recovery, Tapu Bulu 2HKO's with a -1 Superpower.

-1 252+ Atk Tapu Bulu Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Malaconda: 290-342 (66.8 - 78.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
-2 252+ Atk Tapu Bulu Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Malaconda: 218-258 (50.2 - 59.4%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

66.8+50.2-6.25 = 110.75
 
Final Submission

1 Belch
1 Rapid Spin
1 Vine Whip
1 Pursuit
1 Wrap
6 Pursuit
12 Wrap
18 Grass Knot
23 Sucker Punch
28 Slam
35 Leaf Blade
41 Crunch
47 Gastro Acid
54 Power Whip
60 Punishment
66 Wring Out
- I mostly regularized the intervals (all are now 5 or 6 for the assumed new Brattler) and the post-evolution (33 per consensus) delays.
- Wring Out has been moved later, as it tends to be among a Pokémon's last moves.
- I added Gastro Acid since it is learned by at least three other snake lines (Arbok, Seviper and even the non-venomous Serperior).
- Belch is available to both Arbok and Seviper, fits Harvest's affinity with berries and is not strictly related to being poisonous/venomous or learning Poison moves; in particular Grumpig and Whiscash both get it as a level 1 move. It may have some niche use (mostly against Tapu Bulu), but especially considering Malaconda's very low special attack its other options tend to have more general utility.
- The Normal-Grass-Dark alternation wanted by the original movepool creator is preserved (except for Gastro Acid which takes the place of a Normal move and Belch as an added heart scale move at the very beginning).

Aromatherapy
Beat Up
Glare
Haze
Ice Fang (Arbok)
Night Slash
Poison Powder
Scary Face
Screech
Solar Blade (Lurantis)
Sweet Scent
Stun Spore
Thunder Fang (Arbok)
- I don't think Solar Blade fits Malaconda that much, but since apparently people want it and it fits Drought here it is. Having it as an egg moves fits its relative lack of flavour, and is consistent with the distribution of other G7 signature moves like Psychic Fangs, Power Trip and Throat Chop.
- Ice Fang is apparently well liked and has nice competitive implications, so here it is. Thunder Fang is then consistent with both it and Wild Charge. Both are widely distributed as egg moves.

Bind
Dark Pulse
Foul Play
Gastro Acid (also level-up)
Giga Drain
Heal Bell
Iron Tail
Knock Off
Seed Bomb
Sleep Talk
Snatch
Snore
Spite
Synthesis
Worry Seed

- Dark Pulse and Sleep Talk are B2W2 tutors which have become TMs in later versions.
- Snatch fits a shifty Dark-type, is very niche and is learned by fellow snakes Arbok, Seviper and Serperior.
- Gastro Acid is repeated from level-up.

TM05 Roar
TM06 Toxic
TM10 Hidden Power
TM11 Sunny Day
TM12 Taunt
TM15 Hyper Beam
TM17 Protect
TM21 Frustration
TM22 Solar Beam
TM27 Return
TM32 Double Team
TM42 Facade
TM44 Rest
TM45 Attract
TM46 Thief
TM48 Round
TM53 Energy Ball
TM59 Brutal Swing
TM66 Payback
TM68 Giga Impact
TM82 Dragon Tail
TM86 Grass Knot
TM87 Swagger
TM88 Sleep Talk
TM89 U-turn
TM90 Substitute
TM93 Wild Charge
TM95 Snarl
TM96 Nature Power
TM97 Dark Pulse
TM100 Confide
- Brutal Swing is learned by other snake-like Pokémon.
- Nature Power now turns into special moves which are rather useless on Malaconda.
- Confide is universal.
- Sleep Talk and Dark Pulse are old tutors.

Retaliate (G5/6 TM67)
Secret Power (ORAS TM94)
Cut (HM01)
Strength (HM04)
Secret Power is universal.

---------------------------------------------

Considered but excluded moves:
- Aqua Tail really fits flavour-wise, but it adds potentially worrisome coverage.
- Spiky Shield seems sort of controversial.
- Poison coverage (including Poison Fang) was explicitly excluded by the original movepool's creator as anacondas are not venomous, and it could be worrisome against fairies (though Malaconda already gets Iron Tail). I consider Belch as an exception as it is related more to fermentation than to being venomous, and its potential uses are somewhat niche.
 
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Quanyails

On sabbatical!
is a Top Artist Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
Malaconda's level-up movepool intentionally and strictly constrained itself to attacking moves in a Normal-, Grass-, and Dark-type cycle. When it comes to revamping its level-up movepool, I'd like to see either a whole revamp or adherence to the existing pattern. Inserting new moves into the original list without further regard feels lazy. :u
 

snake

is a Community Leaderis a Top CAP Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
CAP Co-Leader
I would like to bring attention upon some additions which have been mentioned:
- Recycle: Z-Recycle (along with Z-Snatch and Z-Bestow which potentially fit flavour-wise) raises Speed by two stages.
- Aqua Tail: I would like some input on this as it has a strong correlation with snake Pokémon but it adds coverage against Fire-types.
- Belch: it fits with Malaconda's berry specialty and is shared by other snakes; it is outclassed by Malaconda's other options against most targets but:

0- SpA Malaconda Belch vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Bulu: 160-192 (56.9 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
(Then again, 252+ Atk Tapu Bulu Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Malaconda: 434-512 (100 - 117.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO)
This is all just my opinion:

Mala isn't sweeping with Z-Recycle anytime soon. It's weak, can't boost, and bad coverage.

Since Psychic Fangs was disallowed, Aqua Tail should be too because it's a move with similar power and ability to mess with checks like Heatran and Volcarona.

Not sure about Belch, the best thing I see it being able to do is being that Bulu lure, but you have to have consumed a berry to use that, which means you're either fishing for Sitrus range or you're sacrificing another moveslot for Rest on a Lum set. It's probably fine, and I kinda like this one.
 

cbrevan

spin, spin, spin
is a CAP Contributoris a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Regarding Aqua Tail, I'm going to disallow it given how it's a viable coverage option that allows Malaconda to damage Fire-type switch-ins. Aside from that, I don't believe any other moves that have come up are worrisome; Recycle is honestly a shitty move on a Harvest Pokemon and Belch is locked behind a requirement that depends on the opponent's actions before it is even usable.

This is also your 24 hour warning, so get those final submissions in soon.
 

dwarfstar

mindless philosopher
FINAL SUBMISSION

Finally done with finals so I can give this the attention it deserves, aww yeah

- Wrap
- Leer
Evolve: Sweet Scent
5 Vine Whip
9 Pursuit
12 Follow Me
16 Stun Spore
20 Grass Knot
23 Sucker Punch
27 Leaf Blade
31 Glare
36 Rapid Spin
42 Crunch
46 Power Whip
51 Captivate
57 Wring Out
61 Solar Blade
66 Punishment

A leveling movepool comprised exclusively of offensive moves has no precedent in actual mons as far as I remember, so I threw that out the window and moved Stun Spore, Sweet Scent, and Glare from the egg pool to the leveling pool and moved Slam into the egg pool. We're running on a 4-4-3 pattern prior to LV33, when Brattler evolves, and 5-6-4 afterward to reflect the lag that most real mons display after evolution. Sweet Scent is set as Malaconda's evolution move for when those seeds on Brattler's tail give way to that lovely, ever-so-tempting apple.

I added Leer as a LV1 move because of how common that is for snake Pokemon and moved Wrap to LV1 for the same reason. Vine Whip and Pursuit are the expected weak early-game STAB moves, and then we get to Follow Me, added to play into the temptation flavor Malaconda's got going on and placed early in the movepool like it is for other mons who learn it by leveling (all in the 16-21 range as of SM). After luring its target Malaconda reveals it can debilitate the foe with Stun Spore. Shortly afterward it gains the power of to manipulate plant growth and learns Grass Knot, and Sucker Punch goes in the next slot to tie together moves that take a sneakier approach to attacking. Eventually Malaconda starts getting bolder and using more straightforward offensive moves like Leaf Blade, and learns to stop foes in their tracks with Glare. Rapid Spin is placed weirdly late compared to most of the Pokemon who learn it, but there's some precedent for that in Bergmite and Avalugg, and it leaves people involved with the prevo updates the option of adding Rapid Spin to Brattler's movepool if they want more easily than if it was placed at an early level because fewer moves have to be shifted forward. From there we got Crunch and Power Whip, standard mid-to-late-game strong STAB options. Captivate is next, demonstrating Malaconda's mastery of luring and tempting hapless victims and breaking up the string of offensive moves. Wring Out is typically one of the last moves learned by Pokemon with access to it, and Malaconda is no exception. As it achieves full mastery of its powers Malaconda harnesses the power of the sun and learns Solar Blade, a nice little nod to its origins as a sun supporter and new Drought ability. Punishment is the perfect capstone move for Malaconda and 66 is a good level for it, so I kept that as-is.


Aromatherapy
Beat Up
Feint
Haze
Ice Fang
Night Slash
Poison Powder
Scary Face
Screech
Slam
Thunder Fang
Water Sport


Ice Fang gives Malaconda a fighting chance against Landorus-T, Zygarde, and Garchomp in a 1v1 matchup and allows it to actually work as a Ground check like you'd expect a bulky Grass-type to do, as discussed earlier in this thread. Thunder Fang is strictly outclassed by Wild Charge, which Malaconda already has access to, and fits in as a flavor addition with Ice Fang because most Pokemon who learn either of those as non-STAB moves learns the other as well (RIP Fire Fang, you will be missed). I also added Water Sport as a nod to anacondas' amphibious habits (they spend a significant portion of their time in rivers and swim very well). Feint is associated with a lot of priority users and its flavor meshes nicely with Malaconda's cunning nature and Infiltrator ability.

Ordinarily Pokemon that get both Stun Spore and Poison Powder either get them both by leveling or both by breeding, but I chose to leave Poison Powder where it was instead of moving it to the leveling pool like I did with Stun Spore because anacondas are nonvenomous, so it seemed odd to throw a move with poison effects in Malaconda's leveling movepool. Slam was moved here from the leveling pool to free up space for more flavorful moves that emphasize Malaconda's cunning nature instead of a string of brute-force attacks.


Bind
Dark Pulse (BW2 only; duplicated in TMs)
Dragon Pulse
Foul Play
Gastro Acid
Giga Drain
Heal Bell
Iron Tail
Knock Off
Recycle
Seed Bomb
Sleep Talk
Snore
Spite
Synthesis
Worry Seed

All but two fully evolved Pokemon in the Dragon egg group that existed at the time when Dragon Pulse was a tutor move have access to it, as does fellow snake mon Serperior, and Malaconda's design inspiration from the biblical Serpent makes it a natural fit. On the competitive side of things, Dragon Pulse doesn't give Malaconda anything it didn't have already in terms of useful coverage, as the few things it hits supereffectively would take more damage from one or both of Malaconda's primary STAB options or Ice Fang even if Dragon Pulse wasn't running off a base 40 Special Attack stat. Gastro Acid is commonly learned by snake Pokemon, and Recycle calls back to reuse of berries through Harvest without bringing anything competitive to the table because other consumable items are kinda useless on Malaconda.


TM05 Roar
TM06 Toxic
TM10 Hidden Power
TM11 Sunny Day
TM12 Taunt
TM15 Hyper Beam
TM17 Protect
TM21 Frustration
TM22 Solar Beam
TM27 Return
TM32 Double Team
TM41 Torment
TM42 Façade
TM44 Rest
TM45 Attract
TM46 Thief
TM48 Round
TM53 Energy Ball
TM59 Brutal Swing
TM66 Payback
TM67 Retaliate
TM68 Giga Impact
TM82 Dragon Tail
TM86 Grass Knot
TM87 Swagger
TM88 Sleep Talk

TM89 U-turn
TM90 Substitute
TM93 Wild Charge
TM95 Snarl
TM96 Nature Power
TM97 Dark Pulse
TM100 Confide

Sleep Talk and Confide are universal, and Swagger is nearly so (only Drampa and Guzzlord lack access to it and I feel it meshes nicely with Malaconda's nature). Brutal Swing is available to other serpentine Pokemon and Malaconda has the tail strength to use it (see: access to Power Whip, Slam, and Iron Tail). Nature Power has lost the competitive value it once had for Malaconda, meshes nicely with Malaconda's BW2 Pokedex entry, and is usually available to Grass-types. Dark Pulse is a former tutor move Malaconda already had access to.

The one addition here that could be considered even remotely competitive by any standard is Torment, but I don't believe it changes Malaconda's matchups enough to exclude from movepool additions and there is a consistency argument to be made for including it. Torment is available to nearly all Dark-types (the exceptions are Cacturne, Crawdaunt, Greninja, and Guzzlord) and to fellow snake mons Arbok and Serperior, and it was judged not competitively overbearing enough to exclude from movepool submissions during Malaconda's creation. At the time some people raised concerns about Malaconda being able to stall out its counters with a set similar to Tormentran from DPP OU, but Malaconda's large number of weaknesses and lacking physical bulk means most of the Pokemon it has trouble with have multiple means of doing serious damage to it, so not being able to use the same move consecutively isn't that big a deal for them. Pokemon holding choice items don't handle it well, but I'd argue that doesn't mean a whole lot for Malaconda. Keldeo, Gengar, Tyranitar, Landorus-T, Garchomp, and Zygarde can all just be hit for SE damage by Malaconda's STABs or Ice Fang on the switch, which is significantly more efficient than trying to stall with the Torment/Protect/Substitute combo, and the vast majority of Choice Scarf wielders are neutered by Glare from other sets (with the notable exception of Tapu Koko, which just comes in and U-turns on the Torment turn to break the Substitute and goes out to another mon that can threaten Malaconda). The only relevant choicemons that don't just lose to Malaconda's attacks on offensive sets or get crippled by Glare are Specs Magnezone, which can't do much to you anyway due to Malaconda's fantastic special bulk and can just Volt Switch out if it comes in on the sub turn (252+ SpA Choice Specs Magnezone Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Malaconda: 130-154 (29.9 - 35.4%) -- 25.7% chance to 3HKO) and Specs Heatran, which is successfully walled if you Sub on the switch. Our hypothetical Tormenconda also doesn't have the luxury of getting away with having just one attack without being walled by a lot more Pokemon than usual the way Tormentran does with Lava Plume, and having to rely on Harvest healing is a pain.

tl;dr the original move discussion process deemed Torment OK; a set based around it would be kinda gimmicky and unreliable due to the luck-based nature of Harvest healing and only changes Malaconda's matchup against one specific set that isn't super common; the vast majority of Dark-types and multiple snake mons get Torment so Malaconda probably should too for consistency's sake


Cut (Gen 5/6 HM01)
Rock Smash (Gen 5/XY TM94; ORAS HM06)
Secret Power (ORAS TM94)
Strength (Gen 5/6 HM04)

Secret Power is available to every Pokemon that can use TMs, and Rock Smash is there because there's a very strong correlation between learning Strength and learning Rock Smash (only 12 Pokemon learn Strength and not Rock Smash, and every Pokemon introduced in generation 5 or later that could learn Strength could also learn Rock Smash).


shuffled around move order and switched some moves between the leveling and egg movepools
added Leer, Follow Me, Captivate, and Solar Blade to the leveling movepool
added Ice Fang, Thunder Fang, Feint and Water Sport to the egg movepool
added Dragon Pulse, Gastro Acid, and Recycle to the tutor movepool
added Torment, Brutal Swing, Swagger, Sleep Talk, Nature Power, and Confide to the TM movepool
added Rock Smash and Secret Power to the transfer-only movepool


Notable exclusions: I left out any offensive Poison-type moves because anacondas are nonvenomous. Spiky Shield didn't make much sense as an addition to the movepool here from a flavor perspective because everything that currently learns it has other moves involving spikes somehow and because Malaconda's spikes just don't look like they could realistically be used to shield Malaconda from an incoming attack, so I left that out as well.
 
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Final Submission

- Rapid Spin
- Vine Whip
- Pursuit
- Wrap
06 Pursuit
12 Wrap
18 Grass Knot
25 Sucker Punch
30 Slam
36 Leaf Blade
42 Crunch
48 Feint
57 Power Whip
66 Punishment
72 Wring Out
78 Solar Blade
84 Power Trip


Wring Out has been moved to a later level, as most Pokemon learn the move at a level closer to the end of their movepool. To fill this now-vacant slot and preserve the original movepool's Normal-Grass-Dark pattern, Feint is added for flavor, as Malaconda already demonstrates the ability to bypass most forms of protection with Infiltrator. Also, the move is primarily learned by Fighting-types and "sneaky" Dark-types, of which Malaconda is the latter. Solar Blade is a handy tool for Drought sets that pays homage to Malaconda's connections to Sun teams. Finally, Power Trip takes the place of Punishment as a potentially powerful Dark-type move that lies at the end of Malaconda's movepool; due to Malaconda's lack of reliable stat-boosting options, it has few competitive implications. Because the original movepool had a pattern of 6-6-6-X-X-6-6-6-X-X, Wring Out and the two new additions follow this trend and are learned in a third "6-6-6" set.


Egg Groups: Grass / Dragon

Aromatherapy
Beat Up
Fell Stinger
Follow Me

Glare
Haze
Ice Fang
Night Slash
Poison Powder
Scary Face
Screech
Sweet Scent
Stun Spore
Thunder Fang

Ice Fang is a nice competitive option for Malaconda, while Thunder Fang, a competitively inferior version of Wild Charge, is present due to the frequency with which multiple "Fang" moves appear in Egg movepools. Follow Me works with Malaconda's Pokédex entries and its classification as "the Temptation Pokemon," and is competitively useless. The biggest oddity here is Fell Stinger, a move Malaconda can pick up from Parasect, Leavanny, or fellow spiky Grass-type, Maractus; while Malaconda might appreciate Fell Stinger's Attack boost, the move is generally unviable due to Malaconda's low Speed and poor coverage and the unreliability of the boost. Flavor-wise, Malaconda is an anaconda that lures prey using its apple; it's not unreasonable to imagine that the spikes dotting Malaconda's body could pierce the body of its prey, and siphoning energy from a victim in such a manner is a fitting technique for a Dark-type Pokemon. Also, given that something as harmless as Togedemaru learns Fell Stinger, it is safe to say that the move can be distributed to anything with spikes.

Special shout-outs to Z-moves and my own failure to notice this thread until now, which prevent me from adding the move I've thought best fits Malaconda since 2013: Forest's Curse -.- . Maybe next generation can be different...


Bind
Dark Pulse
Foul Play
Giga Drain
Heal Bell
Iron Tail
Knock Off
Seed Bomb
Sleep Talk
Snatch
Snore
Spite
Synthesis
Worry Seed
Snatch is the only addition; 37 of the 50 Dark-type Pokemon learn the move, and several snake Pokemon do as well, so it fits pretty well on Malaconda's movepool.


TM05 Roar
TM08 Toxic
TM10 Hidden Power
TM11 Sunny Day
TM12 Taunt
TM15 Hyper Beam
TM17 Protect
TM21 Frustration
TM22 Solar Beam
TM27 Return
TM32 Double Team
TM42 Facade
TM44 Rest
TM45 Attract
TM46 Thief
TM48 Round
TM53 Energy Ball
TM59 Brutal Swing
TM66 Payback
TM68 Giga Impact
TM82 Dragon Tail
TM86 Grass Knot
TM87 Swagger
TM88 Sleep Talk
TM89 U-turn
TM90 Substitute
TM93 Wild Charge
TM95 Snarl
TM96 Nature Power
TM97 Dark Pulse
TM100 Confide
Brutal Swing
is commonly learned by serpentine Pokemon and/or Pokemon with large bodies, which makes it a good fit for Malaconda. Nature Power is learned by many Grass-type Pokemon and plays off of Malaconda's third Pokedex entry. Sleep Talk and Dark Pulse are repeats from previous generations' tutors, and Confide is an obligatory move.


Cut
Retaliate
Secret Power
Strength

If I remember correctly, every Pokemon capable of learning more than a few TM's can learn Secret Power, which justifies its inclusion.


Level-Up:
Feint added at level 48
Wring Out moved to level 72
Solar Blade added at level 78
Power Trip added at level 84

Egg:
Fell Stinger added
Follow Me added
Ice Fang added
Thunder Fang added

Tutors:
Snatch added

TM's:
Brutal Swing added
Sleep Talk replicated
Nature Power added
Dark Pulse replicated
Confide added

Transfer Only:
Secret Power added



I can't believe I almost missed the process of updating my third-favorite CAP. I should pay more attention to these things >.> .
 

cbrevan

spin, spin, spin
is a CAP Contributoris a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
We've gotten six movepool submissions, and they all seem fine to me. If jas61292 approves of these submissions as well, our slate will be as follows:

snake_rattler
HeaLnDeaL
LucarioOfLegends
Menshay
dwarfstar
P2X7
 

cbrevan

spin, spin, spin
is a CAP Contributoris a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
With this poll, snake_rattler's movepool has been voted in as Malaconda's updated movepool. Likewise, that poll also marked the end of Malaconda's update as a whole, so I'm happy to say that this thread has been completed.

To sum up our discussion and changes, Malaconda was voted to have Drought as it's new Hidden Ability, and received a plethora of new moves and movepool edits. The following moves were added to Malaconda's movepool: Brutal Swing, Confide, Feint, Follow Me, Ice Fang, Leer, Nature Power, Recycle, Secret Power, Sleep Talk, Solar Blade, Spiky Shield, Thunder Fang.

I'd also like to give a hearty thank you to everyone who contributed to our discussion, as well as everyone who voted in our polls. As always, we couldn't do it without you guys.
 
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