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Any good starting points for stall except for a WishDino? I want to branch out as a player and explore new styles I haven't tried yet, and I've never cared much for stall nor faced it all too often on the ladder in recent times, so I'm not sure where to start.
 

poh

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Any good starting points for stall except for a WishDino? I want to branch out as a player and explore new styles I haven't tried yet, and I've never cared much for stall nor faced it all too often on the ladder in recent times, so I'm not sure where to start.
Oh thanks ill probably get round to breeding one then.
Can anyone suggest any other mons to go with mega audino and gastrodon
A good stall core is Gastrodon - Sliggoo - Audino. Allstar posted an RMT which is a pretty nifty Stall team. Other mons you could use are Weezing, Steelix and Gourgeist. When you're building stall make sure you're not too weak to hazards so levitating mons and mons who can deal with status are something to think about. Mons that can phaze out setup sweepers, so Roar or something along those lines can be helpful.

This is just based on my knowledge so i hope it helped D:
 
Gastrodon or Steelix are pretty safe way to deal with Garbodor if you have Earthquake and classical set for Steelix, but he'll be able to set up his entry hazards. You can try to use Xatu if you want to predict one of his entry hazards and OS him with Psychic, or just use Mesprit or Golurk to OS him. Claydol doesn't fear Gunk Shot and can Rapid Spin or Psychic. Often, you'll pass Garbodor just by spaming attacks on him, he's not that much tanky and doesn't have any recovery move
 

Shadestep

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Bulky psychic types like Xatu, Mesprit, and Musharna work well vs Garbodor as they apply pressure to it and limit the amount of hazards it can get up, as well as not taking too much damage from Garbodor's Gunk Shot, unlike Pyroar for example. Rhydon's insane physical bulk makes it an easy switchin to most Garbodor sets, it doesnt take much from Seed Bomb either but is however annoyed by TSpikes
 
Pelipper is also a nice way of beating Garbodor, it Defogs the hazards, can burn it with Scald, all while taking low damage from its attacks. Reliable recovery helps it check multiple times during the match. Regirock and Piloswine are another fine picks when dealing with Garbodor, although Garb can set up multiple layers of hazards on them (while dying in the process) so be sure to pack hazard control.
 

yogi

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that doesn't make it a safe switch in regardless; with things such as prediction coming into play. I mean, it's a soft check, but you can't into 'ifs' and 'buts' because that's not how it'd be played out everytime. theoretically you could, but during that time you could just be set-up bait for spikes, which is not something I want garb doing for free
 
plus defensive garb doing like 57 and offensive doing 65 or so, which when coupled with the amount of times it can potentially use recover makes seed bomb not as huge as other coverage.
 

CanadianWifier

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Looking to get back into it (maybe?), I assume Cathy isn't exactly the most reliable set for Trevenant to run sadly.

Any good sets for Trevenant that have emerged that aren't just outclassed by Gourgiest?
 

Kiyo

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Looking to get back into it (maybe?), I assume Cathy isn't exactly the most reliable set for Trevenant to run sadly.

Any good sets for Trevenant that have emerged that aren't just outclassed by Gourgiest?
I'm convinced harvest is the only way to carve out a niche for trevenant, punch has theorymonned lum+rest for good recovery and in general maintaining the ability to deal with status. I don't think CB with natural cure is necessarily bad, but it definitely misses Gourgeist's access to shadow sneak
 

yogi

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Choice band is probably the most reliable set. Wood hammer, Rock slide, drain punch and shadow claw with adamant, Max Atk Max Spe.

You can also run rest on the cb set due to natural cure.
 
besides the colbur berry and soft sand, what is a good item for claydol(specifically a bulky attacking one)? i'm running the following (the only perfect iv i have for my current claydol is def, so ya i should prob breed a better one):

Claydol
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Def / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Stealth Rock/Rapid Spin (not sure which since i have a defogger, and i don't have a stealth rocks user on the team, so i'm leaning towards stealth rocks)
- Earth Power

tell me anything else i should change to make it better.
 

Kiyo

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besides the colbur berry and soft sand, what is a good item for claydol(specifically a bulky attacking one)? i'm running the following (the only perfect iv i have for my current claydol is def, so ya i should prob breed a better one):

Claydol
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Def / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Stealth Rock/Rapid Spin (not sure which since i have a defogger, and i don't have a stealth rocks user on the team, so i'm leaning towards stealth rocks)
- Earth Power

tell me anything else i should change to make it better.


Claydol is typically pretty mediocre defensively, but if you do opt to run that I'd suggest max HP / max Def. If you're interested in changing your claydol to a more standard build I'd suggest this:

Claydol @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Earth Power
- Shadow Ball
- Psyshock

Rapid Spin's far more niche than Stealth Rock so I'd run that on most teams. I'd also say that Leftovers and Passho berry are the other items I'd consider for claydol
 
Looking to get back into it (maybe?), I assume Cathy isn't exactly the most reliable set for Trevenant to run sadly.

Any good sets for Trevenant that have emerged that aren't just outclassed by Gourgiest?
Honestly, Trevenant is just easily outclassed by Gourgeist in any defensive set. The most optimal one might be Choice Band w/ Natural Cure, as it has access to a few moves that Gourgeist can't use (Earthquake, Wood Hammer etc), albeit its lack of priority, being able to switch into Scalds/Status moves is always nice.
Harvest sets are gimmicky at best, but yeah.
That's the moveset I'd recommand if you ever want to run CB Trevenant:
Code:
Trevenant @ Choice Band
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Rest / Shadow Claw
 
Does Lapras have a niche in the tier?
Yes. Lapras is a decent Water / Ice check that can do a lot of damage thanks to Choice Specs.

If you ever feel like using it, you should probably use this set:
Code:
Lapras @ Choice Specs
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Freeze-Dry
- Signal Beam
HP Fire > Signal Beam is an OK option as well, so is Surf.
 

quziel

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Absolutely, its a very threatening wallbreaker on account of freeze dry and hydro pump having amazing coverage, and how many people use magmortar as their freeze dry resist, which obviously does not deal with hydro pump well. Additionally, due to water absorb, its a very good utility check to many of the tier's water types, especially gastrodon, which can do little to it other than toxic and switch out. As for the set, Earth's is fairly optimal, although you can run Frost Breath over signal beam if you're paranoid about boosting mons, though its generally not worth it.

Of course, it does not have the raw power of Aurorus, nor Jynx's speed nor its access to a sleep move, so it can be hard to justify on a team, but overall, it can be very threatening to a lot of teams, and generally provides more defensive utility than either of the tier's more prominent ice types.
 
K post: 6936568 said:
Claydol is typically pretty mediocre defensively, but if you do opt to run that I'd suggest max HP / max Def. If you're interested in changing your claydol to a more standard build I'd suggest this:

Claydol @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Earth Power
- Shadow Ball
- Psyshock

Rapid Spin's far more niche than Stealth Rock so I'd run that on most teams. I'd also say that Leftovers and Passho berry are the other items I'd consider for claydol
1. mediocre defensively? tbh i think a pretty good 105 def and great 120 sp def is good, maybe not a massive 200 def stat mon such as steelix (which has bad sp def of 65) and regirock (with a pretty good sp def stat of 100) or a greater 140 sp def stat mon that is mantine but its one of the more bulkier mons in split defenses, the only mediocre defensive stat is the 60 hp stat.

2. you just pretty much copy-pasted the offensive spinner set from the strategy pokedex. remember, i wanted specifically a bulky sp atk set, you just gave me a speedy, special attacking set. but eh, i already had bred and ev trained the claydol. here's what i decided on for a BULKY special attacking set (not going to change anything else):

Claydol @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 24 HP / 76 Def / 156 SpA / 252 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Earth Power
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin
 
Theres more than just raw base stats that determine how effective it is defensively. A plethora of weaknesses and lack of reliable recovery restrict what it checks. Theres absolutely no lack of strong offensive threats that can destroy it if it tries to switch in. Water/Dark/Ice/Grass are common STAB or coverage moves and then theres plenty of strong attacks it taks neutrally which can 2HKO it.


An offensive set works because of all the coverage Claydol has which allows it to hit usual switchins including potential spinblockers. Using SR and Rapid Spin is nice in theory but it puts too much reliance on Claydol which isn't that durable in the first place and a "bulky" spread like that isn't doing it any favors. Did you have certain benchmarks or calcs in mind when you made that spread?
 
Last edited:

erisia

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Something else to consider is that investing in bulk with Claydol has diminishing returns. It doesn't do enough to let it take super-effective attacks, while investing in its offensive stats makes it much more threatening relatively speaking. Claydol is often best off using its good uninvested bulk and resistances to switch in on certain Pokemon such as Rhydon and either fire off attacks with its good STAB combination and coverage options (Special attacks are great in this tier: even 70 SpA is enough to be mildly threatening) or getting a Rapid Spin. Investing in Speed lets Claydol circumvent its type weaknesses to an extent by being able to fire off an attack before the opponent can, making it more useful than defensive investment overall.

That said, if you want to invest in Claydol's defenses, you should just go for 252 HP. Its HP stat is relatively low compared to its defenses, and since its overall bulk is determined by HP*Defense or HP*Special Defense respectively, investing in HP makes a lot more difference than investing in either of its defensive stats. Then you can put the rest into Special Attack so that Claydol can still be decently threatening.

If you don't need Rapid Spin and still want to use Claydol for some reason, then Stealth Rock can be a decent option so you don't have to run another Stealth Rock user, and people won't usually switch Xatu into it to block Stealth Rock since it rarely runs the move. You should pack Shadow Ball or Ice Beam as your coverage move anyways as it may switch in anyway to block your STAB attacks.
 
Hi everybody ! Im new to the tier !. So to the point , while im bad at the game i was watching the tier list and stumbled upon shiftry being an aceptable mon here, so i thougth hey what about buildin an HO team with shiftry and ninetails as a sun setter then i saw that ninetails is barely C tier and that the smogon dex builds it with flash fire instead.
So my question is ninetails that bad as a sun setter ? And how about a sub+nasty plot set?.
PS:sorry for not an simple question XD
 

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