Resource Ask a simple question, get a simple answer: NU Edition

Smeargle's main problem IMO is it's frailty. Its required to run Focus Sash or else it gets one shot by pretty much anything. (In addition to its low base 75 speed) The only time Sticky Web has ever "kicked off" in a meta was RU when Shuckle was allowed. What made Shuckle different was its bulk (Which was complimented by the Sturdy ability, pretty much making it so it didn't even need Focus Sash to get off a Web, and as such, it can run Mental Herb to bypass Taunt/Encore/what have you) and incredible support options. Because of its attributes, the RU ladder was pretty much filled with Sticky Web teams to the point of overcentralization, resulting in Shuckle's ban.

Still, Smeargle Webs isn't necessarily a bad playstyle. You're pretty much required to run Skuntank with it though because of Xatu. (Any other viable Pursuit trapper works as well) A hazard remover of your own is a nice choice due to the fact that your team will likely be worn down quickly. (Spinners over Defoggers as Smeargle will really only be able to get Rocks/Webs up once per game and Defog pretty much removes your effort entirely; Claydol's what I use personally) A Pokemon that isn't reliant on Webs to outspeed stuff is also really good. There are several Wallbreakers that are good when paired up with Sticky Web, such as the also recently dropped Aggron, Aurorus, and Abomasnow. (There are several others as well, but these are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head)
I'm gonna have to disagree with you here. From playing with certain smeargle builds over the past couple of days it's problem isn't it's frailty. It's a setback, yes, but focus sash gives you an oppurtuinitys to set any hazards you like at least once. Not to mention it's vary rare for a team to have all above 273 speed, so it's very likely it has the capability of setting at least 2 layers at a given moment in a match. In fact, its problem is more so it's lack of offensive prowess.
From playing with smeargle, it was hugely difficult to play against something that was faster with substitute or even something as simple as settup Sweepers + Sleep Fodder. Smeargle doesn't have a viable way of damaging the opponent, and spore is its only outlet to not be constant settup fodder. That being said, smeargle does keep momentum quite well because hazards in themselves gain momentum. It's very much so a settup hazards and sack mon, I just wanna emphasise that it's not really it's frailty that's hurting it, but in fact it's lack of damaging attacks.

Also you state that you need a pursuit trapper for smeargle to work all the time and this definitely isn't the case. Smeargle can often find the room to run Skill Swap and take away a Xatus magic bounce at any given moment. Giving you free reign to settup 2 layers of whatever hazards you want should you predict correctly should the xatu not outspeed. And finally I can only ever see smeargle used on the most hyper of hyper offensive builds. An advantage to using these builds is the fact you can keep up the pressure of defoggers / spinners / hazards removers through offensive pressure. A good hyper offensive team won't give the oppurtuinitys for hazards control to do what they do, and if they do, the hyper offensive team should punish you for it. Defog Detterent in Pawniard / Spinblocker in a given Ghost Type, u very much so oversimplify removing hazards vs smeargle offense, because they will almost certainly carry Pawniard and Ghost to pressure hazards removers, and if either is unavailable, the pure offensive pressure of settup sweepers and various wall breakers should be enough.

Agreeing that smeargle webs isn't the greatest playstyle, but it's very good if you give it room to do what it needs to do, and very much so makes mons with levitate a huge advantage to have to play against them.
 
Glad we're still sticking to simple answers here

The thing about smeargle and most HO leads in general is that you only rly get one good shot getting up your hazards. From then on you p much gotta try and keep up enough offensive pressure in order to not let stuff spin / defog (which is rly common in NU rn) and even then pawniard as a defog blocker isnt just gonna sweep teams at +2 like its XY lol

If you guys wanna have a more in-depth discussion on this, feel free to use the np thread, but for now i'd appreciate it if we kept the thread to just simple questions and simple answers.
 
Any thoughts on optimal coverage for SS Gorebyss atm?

Previously ran Hydro/Psych/HP Fire. W/ Gastro being everywhere rn hp grass feels mandatory but then you miss out on hitting Ferro and any grass type that isn't Vileplume. Could also switch out Psychic at that point for Ice Beam but then Hari walls you.
 
Any thoughts on optimal coverage for SS Gorebyss atm?

Previously ran Hydro/Psych/HP Fire. W/ Gastro being everywhere rn hp grass feels mandatory but then you miss out on hitting Ferro and any grass type that isn't Vileplume. Could also switch out Psychic at that point for Ice Beam but then Hari walls you.
Hydro/Ice Beam/HP Grass
Hydro is obvious, Ice Beam deals with grass mons not named Ferro and HP Grass bops Gastrodon. Everything else is going to eat Hydros anyways. Psychic is completely redundant in my experience because Hydro 2HKOs Hariyama anyways, and you're not gonna set up against it anyways, so it's always going to switch into a Hydro first. Ferro is really not too common right now in my experience, and easily taken care of by the rest of your team. Gastrodon also happens to be setup fodder for a bunch of stuff, so HP Fire and Psychic might be better depending on your team, but not knowing said team, I'd just go with Hydro/Ice Beam/HP Grass cause you're bound to not hit SOMETHING and I'd rather not hit Ferro because it's simply not a threat right now.
 

Shadestep

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Gorebyss suffers from a 4MSS, so i don't think there's an actual good or bad moveset. Deeerpz, Psychic isn't redundant at all, as it OHKOs Poliwrath, which HP Grass doesn't, as well as do more damage to Hariyama. that might seem irrelevant since it only does around 10% more, but it's the difference between Hariyama dying after 1 Rocky Helmet hit, or being able to barely take a hit and OHKO Gorebyss back. I think Ice Beam, Psychic, HP Fire and HP Grass are all viable options, and that one isn't really better than others.
 

erisia

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Psychic is Gorebyss's niche over Omastar in this metagame. It hits Poliwrath and while it doesn't do much more damage than Hydro Pump against Yama, the extra accuracy is very nice in that regard. Having a better matchup against Fighting-types compared to Omastar is basically Gorebyss's only advantage, aside from being able to hold Life Orb and not worry about Mach Punch / Earthquake users as much.
 
Okay so it's like I was thinking then. 4mss results in Hp grass+ice beam being pit against hp fire+psychic. I completely forgot about Poli which will probably get a bit more usage due to Aggron but not a massive spike. I'll end up going with fire+psychic but that will suit the team I'm going for better.

Thanks for the discussion guys! Felt this thread was more appropriate than the np thread.
 
Gorebyss suffers from a 4MSS, so i don't think there's an actual good or bad moveset. Deeerpz, Psychic isn't redundant at all, as it OHKOs Poliwrath, which HP Grass doesn't, as well as do more damage to Hariyama. that might seem irrelevant since it only does around 10% more, but it's the difference between Hariyama dying after 1 Rocky Helmet hit, or being able to barely take a hit and OHKO Gorebyss back. I think Ice Beam, Psychic, HP Fire and HP Grass are all viable options, and that one isn't really better than others.
Completely forgot about Poliwrath to be honest, very good point. I still think Psychic is not as crucial, but then again, I would not use Gorebyss over Omastar in this meta anyways, so my PoV might be flawed.
The point I was trying to make is that you are going to end up not covering something, and what coverage moves are best on Gore heavily depends on the team he's played in.
 

Cheryl.

Celesteela is Life
Is Seed Bomb or Foul Play better on SubSeed Gourgeist-Small? I'm guessing Foul Play to punish physical set-up sweepers but Seed Bomb sounds nice to hit Water, Ground, and Rock-types decently hard instead of burning them or Leech Seeding.
 
I believe the answer to this will always be:

what does the rest of your team look like?

For what it's worth, I don't think there are many relevant Water/Ground/Rock types other than AoA Samurott that want to stay in on Gourgeist-Small, and those who do, like Regirock, take laughably little from Seed Bomb anyways. Some, like Steelix, even take a little more from Foul Play. Gastrodon, who I guess would be a prime target for Seed Bomb, is not going to stay in anyways, and if it does, you sub on the Toxic and win regardless of your coverage move. The only mon where I can really see it making a difference from the get-go is Rhydon, as even after a SD boost, Seed Bomb outdamages Foul Play. Obvious shoutouts to stuff like Barbaracle, Omastar and such, but realistically, they are never going to stay in on your seed bomb anyways, and so most of the time clicking sub or Will-O seems better againt them. (Omastars Icebeam can't OHKO the standard SubSeed spread before boosting, and you cant come in after a boost regardless of your coverage)

Overall, again, I think it depends on your team and what exactly the set is supposed to do for you. I would personally run Foul Play in most circumstances, though.
 
actually foul play is always better since it hits basically the same things as seed bomb (+2 otter most setup sweepers), the other stuff like the bulky rock types wont want to chew a wisp anyways, it basically guarantees you wont get set up on by klinklang mainly. there isnt really a scenario where seed bomb would be more beneficial since most bulky waters arent going to switch into you anyways.
 
Drain Punch is pretty sweet for a dedicated normal check, yellow magic is always amazing, There have also been a lot of creative sets involving Regirock, like Custap / Explosion / Counter / whatever shenanigans. I dont actually know if that is a specific niche of Regirock, but I havent seen stuff like that on Rhydon, presumably because its standard sets are just rock solid (see what I did there?)
 

Kiyo

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yeah theres no plan right now, but like I told you last time you asked, its an annual thing. the last two were held a year apart theres no reason to do this one any different. keeping that in mind i'd say sometime around september / november. we have a ton of people requesting to host tours and theres like no reason to give this one priority over another
 

BIG G CHOPPA

Banned deucer.
This is from the analysis but I think it should be fine 252 SpA / 144 SpD / 112 Spe modest for offensive tank. "112 Speed EVs allow Lanturn to outspeed Jolly Rhydon as well as Malamar factoring the drop in Speed from Hidden Power Fire, letting Lanturn get chip damage on Malamar with Volt Switch without having to eat a Superpower, while keeping ahead of Mantine. Proportionally low Special Defense compared to its HP means that Special Defense investment should be prioritized over HP; thus, the remaining EVs are dumped into Special Defense." Quoted directly from the analysis. It has another set as a supportive pivot. 40 HP / 152 Def / 208 SpD / 108 Spe calm. "208 Special Defense EVs would hit the highest jump point in Special Defense, while 40 HP EVs hit a Leftovers number for the most efficient HP recovery. 108 Speed EVs allow Lanturn to outrun Jolly Rock Polish Rhydon before the boost, allowing to KO Rhydon and avoid a fatal Earthquake. 16 Special Attack EVs can even be used to guarantee the OHKO on said Rhydon, if it is truly a bothersome threat to the team. The remaining EVs are poured into Defense, giving Lanturn effective mixed bulk and allowing it to better take hits from Scyther and Klinklang." Again directly quoted from the analysis. Hope I helped you c:
 

etern

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It's also worth noting that if you bump up the speed investment to 124 (hitting 200 speed) you can also outspeed max invested base 50's such as Offensive Mega Audino, and more importantly CB Aggron which lets you KO it instead of being KO'ed and outsped yourself.

252+ SpA Lanturn Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Aggron: 306-360 (108.8 - 128.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

HP Grass is also becoming a common replacement over HP Fire to hit Gastrodon in particular which would otherwise hardwall this set. And then you have the option of Signal Beam if you're team is extremely weak to Malamar. In general Lanturn's moveset is pretty customizeable to what your team needs.
 
Anyone know any good users of Agility + Baton Pass? Or at the very least, any good cores to play around with?

I want to participate in the suspect, but I want to try out Speed Passing that's not Ninjask or Combusken.
 

Rapture

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Anyone know any good users of Agility + Baton Pass? Or at the very least, any good cores to play around with?

I want to participate in the suspect, but I want to try out Speed Passing that's not Ninjask or Combusken.
I wouldn't call it good but something like Agility / Baton Pass / Bug Bite / Aerial Ace Scyther seems like your best shot at trying manual speed pass. Everything else that can pull it off is shitty (things like emogla) or have way better things to do (Smeargle). I suppose the second point can apply to scyther as well but w/e
 
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BIG G CHOPPA

Banned deucer.
Chicken pass is a prominent example of the use of baton pass + speed but yea things like ninjask can baton pass too i guess but it doesn't have the bulk nor offensive prowess to be as threatening as combusken who is bulky due to eviolite and can run a more suitable offensive variant based on the team. Also scyther is pretty cool as it too composes the bulk to be able to withstand hits and has a pretty good offensive presence. Overall you fare better off with chicken pass honestly, as 2 devastating recipients aka xatu and malamar exist.
 

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