Lower Tiers ADV NU Viability Ranking (found new host)

i forgot to do this sadly
This looks great though

Agreed with bughouse flareon is top 4 and should be clear s for me

Torkoal is probably good enough to be a+ but im not as adamant on that

Diglett is probably a sub rank or 2 too high for all the drawbacks it has when you actually build with it, esepcially since everyone and their dad ran anti diglett flare this pl

The birds are all sort of equally as good, i think they should all be ranked equally too

And for all i care get tropius to c that thing has never once failed to underwhelm me no matter what archetype im playing against
 

poh

<?>
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A couple of thoughts:

Diglett just removing mons like flareon and metang is hella undervalued i feel.
Yes it needs quite the chip to ko bulkier mons like wailord and locking into eq isnt exactly great either, giving free turns to 2 s ranks + grasses.
Trapping is hella broken but the low usage + only fits on specific builds = you can maybe drop it futher but not too low?

Whole of S rank is perfect imo.

It kinda irks me that all of dewgong, reli and huntail are all on the same shelf.
I think dewgong can drop cause the other 2 have slightly different roles compared to wailord, im biased tho lol i think you almost always use wailord over dewgong kek. Dewgong-enthousiasts feel free to lecture me.

Dunsparce could be higher, had a good showing last nusd and can effectively trap haunter too which is always a plus. Spreading paras and generating free turns for mons like wailord and chime is great.

Sudowoodo is a viable mon and gets boom, thats immediate a ranks for me kek
 

Bughouse

Like ships in the night, you're passing me by
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A couple of thoughts:

Diglett just removing mons like flareon and metang is hella undervalued i feel.
Yes it needs quite the chip to ko bulkier mons like wailord and locking into eq isnt exactly great either, giving free turns to 2 s ranks + grasses.
Trapping is hella broken but the low usage + only fits on specific builds = you can maybe drop it futher but not too low?

Whole of S rank is perfect imo.

It kinda irks me that all of dewgong, reli and huntail are all on the same shelf.
I think dewgong can drop cause the other 2 have slightly different roles compared to wailord, im biased tho lol i think you almost always use wailord over dewgong kek. Dewgong-enthousiasts feel free to lecture me.

Dunsparce could be higher, had a good showing last nusd and can effectively trap haunter too which is always a plus. Spreading paras and generating free turns for mons like wailord and chime is great.

Sudowoodo is a viable mon and gets boom, thats immediate a ranks for me kek
Dewgong enthusiast here.

1) Wailord is base 60 speed, Dewgong is base 70, which is huge in a tier of base 50-60s. Wailord is most likely slower than Flareon, offensive Dewgong is faster, for example. Gotta go fast.
2) Dewgong is substantially specially bulkier if you want to go that route, but even just on fully offensive, Dewgong's innate better special bulk can come in quite handy. You can take a lot more chip from things like spikes and still live certain things.
252 SpA Haunter Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Wailord: 357-420 (74.2 - 87.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Haunter Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Dewgong: 200-236 (62.3 - 73.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
3) Dewgong's STAB on Ice Beam comes in clutch vs stuff which might matter on certain builds (though I fully acknowledge that the lack of Hydro and Boom and the lower SpA makes Dewgong generally less immediately threatening):
252+ SpA Dewgong Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Bellossom: 229-270 (78.4 - 92.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Wailord Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Bellossom: 178-210 (60.9 - 71.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4) Encore and Perish Song are also unique niches that Wailord lacks. Dewgong also has some other potential niches that might be underexplored like Thief. Of course Wailord also has its own unique options beyond the standard 3 atk + boom like Roar and Curse.
 

Rabia

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S Rank

High


:chimecho: Chimecho
:haunter: Haunter
:wailord: Wailord

Low

:flareon: Flareon
:glalie: Glalie
:metang: Metang

A Rank

High


:bellossom: Bellossom
:hitmonchan: Hitmonchan
:pupitar: Pupitar
:raticate: Raticate
:roselia: Roselia
:sableye: Sableye

Mid

:cacturne: Cacturne
:dewgong: Dewgong
:huntail: Huntail
:plusle: Plusle
:relicanth: Relicanth
:torkoal: Torkoal

Low

:golbat: Golbat
:murkrow: Murkrow
:octillery: Octillery
:pelipper: Pelipper
:pikachu: Pikachu
:sudowoodo: Sudowoodo

B Rank

High


:crawdaunt: Crawdaunt
:diglett: Diglett
:kecleon: Kecleon
:pidgeot: Pidgeot
:venomoth: Venomoth
:vigoroth: Vigoroth
:whiscash: Whiscash

Low

:abra: Abra
:arbok: Arbok
:dunsparce: Dunsparce
:kingler: Kingler
:lickitung: Lickitung
:mawile: Mawile
:minun: Minun
:seadra: Seadra
:tangela: Tangela
:tropius: Tropius
:wigglytuff: Wigglytuff

C Rank

:delcatty: Delcatty
:dragonair: Dragonair
:graveler: Graveler
:grovyle: Grovyle
:houndour: Houndour
:lairon: Lairon
:ledian: Ledian
:magcargo: Magcargo
:piloswine: Piloswine
:poliwhirl: Poliwhirl
:shelgon: Shelgon
:swalot: Swalot
:togetic: Togetic
:wartortle: Wartortle
:yanma: Yanma

---

This is the final version I intend to update the OP with.

I went ahead and swapped Sudowoodo's and Diglett's places and dropped Tropius further. Those three points seemed to get the most consensus agreement.

:torkoal::huntail: I do think Torkoal should probably rise back to A+, but I'm not sold on Huntail. I think it does fit really well into the metagame because structures that focus specifically on overwhelming Water-types are really solid, but it still requires a good bit of setup to get it to successfully sweep in my experience and must contend with opposing Bellossom to win the weather war.

Assuming there aren't any strong objections, I'll update the OP tomorrow with this version and likely post about some potential edits that we can consider after NUPL.
 

Rabia

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OP has been updated, discussion points going forward:

:torkoal::huntail: Torkoal's drop is fairly surprising to many, including me, so I think discussing its placement going forward makes sense. Similarly, Huntail has seen a resurgence lately. Teams dedicated to packing several wallbreakers that force damage onto bulky Water-types are very common now; Silk Scarf Flareon, offensive Water-types, and of course Spikes are all really effective ways to force Huntail's checks into KO range and let it easily sweep late-game.

:dunsparce: Dunsparce saw a good bit of success courtesy of Jisoo in NU Snake II. It's got the broken ability Serene Grace, which makes spreading paralysis with Body Slam really easy, and its coverage is surprisingly deep. Another huge selling point to it, though, is Pursuit. You can EV Dunsparce in such a way for it to fairly reliably take on Haunter and trap it, which is huge. Right now it sits in low B, but a potential rise to high B seems worthwhile.

:diglett::tropius: As stated, I think monitoring both of these Pokemon going forward is worth our time given their immense drop in usage and success across the last several team tournaments that featured ADV NU.

Thank you to everyone that participated in discussion and helped with this update, expect the next update to happen after this year's NUPL
 
Expect a team / set dump and two videos on why glalie and vigoroth should be banned. Please have the brains to ban bright powder / quick claw type items and nerf baton pass, thanks!

VR is ordered, i suggest that we move away from this old fashion looking high low mid stuff and just use +/-.

S
:glalie: Glalie
:chimecho: Chimecho
:haunter: Haunter
:wailord: Wailord
:metang: Metang

S-
:flareon: Flareon
:sableye: Sableye

A+
:bellossom: Bellossom
:hitmonchan: Hitmonchan
:pelipper: Pelipper
:torkoal: Torkoal
:vigoroth: Vigoroth

A
:pikachu: Pikachu
:huntail: Huntail
:raticate: Raticate

A-
:mawile: Mawile
:dewgong: Dewgong
:golbat: Golbat

B+
:octillery: Octillery
:plusle: Plusle
:roselia: Roselia
:whiscash: Whiscash
:kecleon:
Kecleon
:pupitar: Pupitar
:murkrow: Murkrow

B
:diglett: Diglett
:togetic: Togetic
:seadra: Seadra
:relicanth: Relicanth
:arbok: Arbok
:tropius: Tropius
:crawdaunt: Crawdaunt

B-
:lickitung: Lickitung
:omanyte: Omanyte
:minun: Minun
:cacturne: Cacturne
:pidgeot: Pidgeot
:tangela: Tangela
:wigglytuff: Wigglytuff
:sudowoodo: Sudowoodo

C
:piloswine: Piloswine
:magcargo: Magcargo
:swalot: Swalot
:venomoth: Venomoth
:kingler: Kingler

lmk if u think I forgot something. I think we should consider adding a D tier for pokemon like Abra (I will likely edit in my own D tier later).
 
I built and played a lot during ADVPL and NUPL, I have a better understanding of the metagame than I did a few months ago.
First half of my post will be my new updated VR and the second half will be my reasoning for why Pokemon X belongs in Rank Y, I will be comparing my VR with the official VR.
I won't be covering every Pokemon as they are either perfectly ranked in the official VR or I don't care enough to talk about them.
Everything is ordered except for C rank.

S Rank

S Rank

:Glalie:
:Wailord:
:Flareon:
:Metang:
:Torkoal:
:Chimecho:


A Rank

A+ Rank

:Haunter:
:Sableye:

A Rank
:Hitmonchan:
:Raticate:
:Dewgong:
:Octillery:

A- Rank
:Huntail:
:Vigoroth:
:Golbat:
:Cacturne:
:Pupitar:

B Rank

B+ Rank
:Lickitung:
:Roselia:
:Pikachu:
:Plusle:
:Murkrow:
:Crawdaunt:
:Bellossom:

B Rank
:Pelipper:
:Sudowoodo:
:Pidgeot:
:Diglett:
:Minun:
:Mawile:
:Kingler:

B- Rank
:Whiscash:
:Relicanth:
:Arbok:
:Wigglytuff:
:Seadra:

C Rank
:Dunsparce:
:Tangela:
:Venomoth:
:Kecleon:
:Houndour:
:Meditite:
:Abra:
:Tropius:
:Volbeat:
:Seaking:
:Piloswine:
:Magcargo:

Reasonings

S Rank


:Glalie: Glalie is the best mon in the tier for me, its a fantastic spiker than can fit on most offensive & balance teams, it has good coverage to deal with Metang, Haunter, Chimecho and Flareon; It also has great natural bulk and access to explosion. Its very hard to drop Glalie on a team unless you are using Stall.

:Flareon: Flareon might be the only mon in the tier I would consider broken, The Fire Blast/Double Edge/HP Grass/Endure Salac Berry set is very hard to switch into. It only has 2 solid counters being Torkoal and Defensive Wailord. You can also use Pelipper as well but you would have to watch out for HP Electric.
While it has a tough time switching in and has plenty of checks, Once Flareon is able to get in, it can easily grab a KO or two each game.

:Metang: Metang is just an excellent special defensive wall to have on many teams, not only its able to cover Haunter and Plusle but it's able to switch into the Birds and Raticate very nicely as well.

:Torkoal: Torkoal is one of the main reasons why I decided to make a new VR Post in the first place. Its truly one of the best mons in the tier, Its a mixed wall that can wall many mons such as Bellossom, Flareon, Vigoroth, Raticate, Murkrow, Golbat, Metang, Hitmonchan, Haunter and many more.
Not only its bulky but its great at making progression.
Fire Blast is very strong which can OHKO Haunter, you can get out of bad situations with Explosion and you can annoy the shit out of other Fire Types & Sableye with Toxic.
It absolutely deserves being in S rank.

:Chimecho: Chimecho is still a great mon but I wouldn't consider Chimecho the best mon in the tier anymore.

A Rank

:Haunter: I have decided Haunter is no longer S rank, its still a fantastic mon but I think it's too easy to wall with several mons such as Chimecho, Metang, The Fire Types, Sableye and Bulky Glalie which they all have very high usage.

:Hitmonchan: :Raticate: These two mons are still great but I think with how good Sableye is right now, its quite difficult to use these two mons in the current meta.

:Octillery: Octillery is easily in the top 3 best leads rn, Having access to strong Surfs and Thunder Wave makes Octillery an excellent choice for offensive teams to have as a Lead. Octillery also benefits by the fact that using Two Water types on the same team is very strong. It makes an excellent pairing with one of Wailord and Dewgong.

:Vigoroth: Vigoroth should finally move into A- rank, you have to prepare for 3 Attacks Bulk Up and 2 Attacks Bulk Up Slack Off. If you are not careful with Vigoroth, Its pretty easy to lose to it. However it isn't higher on my VR due to the fact it can lose to Sableye, Torkoal and Pelipper.
Vigoroth also wants to carry both Shadow Ball and Earthquake so it suffers from 4MSS.

B Rank

:Lickitung: Lickitung is a very good pick for any Stall team, Its the best cleric in the tier while being a great wish passer.
Not only that but its pretty tanky too as it can take (37%-44%) from Wailord's Hydro Pump. Its also a better wish user than Wigglytuff due to the fact it has access to heal bell which Wiggly does not. I can see Lickitung being in A rank in the future.

:Roselia: Roselia has fallen off for me, She is meant to be a Wailord switch in but gets 2HKOed by Ice Beam. Not only that but she is too frail and not strong at all to be a consistent spiker.
The only mon Roselia truly counters is Plusle but even then Glalie can pull that off well. I would only use Roselia on Stall builds or fat Balance teams.

:Plusle: I don't think Plusle is as good as people make it out to be, People are still spamming grass types and there is still a good amount of switch ins such as Metang, Glalie and Vigoroth. However I do think Plusle's Sub Baton Pass set is good and is the best set. I just find it difficult to find a reason to use it over Haunter which deals with the Grass types more smoothly and it can deal with the Offensive teams better as well.

:Crawdaunt: Pretty underrated, The modest Surf Crunch set is quite strong and being a giant road block vs Chimecho is a great niche to have.

:Bellossom: By far the most overrated mon in the tier, Bellossom is not good rn especially with how amazing Flareon and Torkoal are.
To use Bellossom effectively you are required to lure one of these two mons and get them KOed. Even if you manage to secure the KO on one of two mons, You still have make sure you don't lose to Vigoroth, Golbat, Murkrow and Pidgeot.
I think the special defensive set has potential to be good on bulkier teams but the sunny day set is pretty bad atm.

:Minun: To end on a positive note, I think Minun has a lot of potential to be high B rank in the future.
If you use a bulky set with TBolt, Wish and Protect; Minun is able to handle Haunter, Dewgong, Plusle, Pikachu and Huntail in one slot.
You will be surprised how Bulky and Strong Minun can be.
 

Rabia

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GP & NU Leader
my take on the meta, not ordering within subrank because I think it's a pointless endeavor:

S Rank

S


:chimecho:
:flareon:
:glalie:
:haunter:
:metang:
:wailord:

A Rank

A+


:bellossom:
:hitmonchan:
:pelipper:
:raticate:
:sableye:
:torkoal:

A

:dewgong:
:huntail:
:octillery:
:pikachu:
:plusle:
:vigoroth:

A-

:cacturne:
:golbat:
:pupitar:
:roselia:
:sudowoodo:
:whiscash:

B Rank

B+


:crawdaunt:
:kecleon:
:mawile:
:murkrow:
:relicanth:
:venomoth:

B

:arbok:
:diglett:
:dunsparce:
:kingler:
:minun:
:pidgeot:

B-

:lickitung:
:seadra:
:tangela:
:tropius:
:wigglytuff:

C Rank

C+


:delcatty:
:grovyle:
:ledian:
:magcargo:
:piloswine:
:swalot:
:togetic:

C

:abra:
:dragonair:
:graveler:
:houndour:
:lairon:
:poliwhirl:

---

Collapsed the S subranks because I don't think the divide between S and S- is large enough to warrant it anymore, also bothered to do C+ and C only to contrast between what I think is maybe, sometimes, perhaps worth using versus what is never worth using.

General things I think are worth noting:

:cacturne::roselia: Dropped these two a fair bit because Glalie is just the best Spiker in the format by a country mile, and the builds they fit on aren't super dominant anymore. Their defensive shortcomings feel much more noted currently, especially Roselia's because its bulk is genuinely bad.

:pelipper: The pelican is good because compared to Huntail, you can more easily set rain for yourself because of defensive utility.

:torkoal: Why it was dropped originally I have no answer for, but I'm glad to see people, so far, being on board to send it back up to A+.

:mawile: It's slightly better now because it checks Glalie pretty well and can use Baton Pass, a certified broken move.

:pikachu: Bulky Grass-types are super uncommon and the meta is much more offensively inclined, so he gets a rise.

:pupitar: I still think Pupitar is dangerous as fuck and people are too quick to think they're safe against it because of a single Reflect Chimecho, but it's pretty clear Pupitar finds a lot fewer setup chances nowadays.

:vigoroth: Very versatile Pokemon, so long as you avoid the Sableye matchup it's likely to give your opponent some headaches.

:relicanth: Defensively very underwhelming, offensively I just don't care for it.

:octillery: Roseybear is right; this Pokemon is a great lead and must be given more respect.
 
Before I make my formal post-NUPL rankings, I want to speak about a specific mon in-depth

Shuckle's viability was theory-crafted on the ADV NU Champions discord for our Pokemon 72 feature. ThatOneBall, SweetPatata, and I came up with spreads, tested, and worked to figure out which teams and strategies Shuckle could facilitate. Jisoo took a liking to Shuckle and we built the Shuckle stall together for ADVPL II.

Shuckle
ShuckleEmerald.gif

It is no secret that Shuckle has historically been seen as a joke Pokemon. He has no power or speed, and his singular game plan is to toxic stall.

However, I believe that Shuckle's typing is thoroughly excellent, and it gives him a unique place among normal resists in the meta game. Shuckle is a rock type/ normal resist that is not weak to ground, and a bug type that is not weak to flying or fire. This allows Shuckle to survive coverage options which otherwise nail most other normal resists (Metang, pseudo-normal resist Torkoal, Mawile, Magcargo, Graveler are all collectively smacked by HP Ground/ Earthquake). Shuckle is also a fire neutral mon that is not vulnerable to HP Grass, which is hugely important in the offensive Flareon matchup. Additionally, Shuckle performs better than most normal resists vs. Hitmonchan because he is neutral to Brick Break and Earthquake. Shuckle can generally stay in vs. Plusle and Haunter and spam encore, which can give a teammate a free pivot on a resisted move or an encored Substitute. Importantly, Shuckle is a normal resist who does not fear Liechi Reversal Raticate or Flail Flareon. I would call Shuckle's defensive profile the most similar to a Spdef Torkoal; but with greater long-term survivability and less vulnerability upon pivoting (doesn't fear ground coverage like Torkoal does).

Encore is absolutely vital to Shuckle's game plan. It forces switches and foils setup, which allows Shuckle to spread Toxic. Encore can also be great in enabling your own team's setup threats; which is why I don't believe Shuckle is exclusive restricted to stall teams (though his slow pace allows him to fit on stall more easily). Shuckle can work as glue to hold setup spam together.

Shuckle isn't perfect. He is exploited by Metang; who doesn't fear any of his moves and can pivot into him forever. However, a smart builder can use this to their advantage. Depending on the team style, pair Shuckle with a Diglett, Flareon, or 3 attacks Wailord (offense) or a Torkoal or defensive Wailord (stall). Shuckle can also be taken advantage of by Substitute Flareon variants, assuming Shuckle doesn't Encore them into Substitute or an attack. The worst case scenario is a Substitute and Baton Pass Flareon who has not been encored.

This is the best spread that I came to. +Spdef is just more useful in handling offensive Flareon and Bellossom. Defensive nature isn't necessary to destroy the offensive normal types.
Some useful calcs:
252+ SpA Bellossom Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 64+ SpD Shuckle: 71-84 (29 - 34.4%) -- 99.8% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Flareon Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 64+ SpD Shuckle: 73-87 (29.9 - 35.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Raticate Reversal (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 192 Def Shuckle: 103-122 (42.2 - 50%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Raticate Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 192 Def Shuckle: 46-55 (18.8 - 22.5%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery

The Wrap Assassin (Shuckle) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 192 Def / 64 SpD
Careful Nature
- Toxic
- Wrap
- Encore
- Rest


In the instance of a team that especially fears physical threats, going +defense nature is an option with marginal benefits. This +defense spread was the initial spread that TheOneBall, SweetPatata, and I came to. I've come to like +spdef better.

ThatOneBall (Shuckle) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 72 Def / 184 SpD
Impish Nature
- Toxic
- Wrap
- Encore
- Rest


There is also a Rollout set which drops Wrap. Rollout should only be used at the very end of the game to cleanup threats who could otherwise sit in front of Shuckle forever I.e. Haunter, Golbat (though CB can be PP stalled), etc. I give credit mostly to Patata and OneBall for this set. Sometimes you find yourself using Wrap infrequently, so Rollout can be a more useful option.

Rock Titan (Shuckle) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Atk / 72 Def / 64 SpD
Careful Nature
- Toxic
- Encore
- Rollout
- Rest


Jisoo already shared the stall team in the NUPL X dump, but I figure I might as well post it here as well:
https://pokepast.es/c4795515efba1683

Shuckle.gif

Replays of Jisoo succeeding with Shuckle:
ADVPL II Week 2 (Jisoo vs. Void) - https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen3nu-618709
NUPL X Week 5 (Jisoo vs. Rabia) - https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen3nu-631655

Crazy casual game where Shuckle staves off reversal rat, CB Hitmonchan, CB Murkrow and a Sunny Day Belle for a long time - https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3nu-1625995364-v5wa07h7r9xgzuzvixk8pklap0rg7kepw

Thanks to Jisoo for winning with Shuckle in tour.

Jisoo and Shuckle: o_O <3
ShuckleGIF.gif
 
Last edited:
https://pokepast.es/7f68d8b49631ce1d
https://pokepast.es/c5c6f4f2ab6aeabb

Haunter @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 228 HP / 60 Def / 76 SpA / 84 SpD / 60 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Giga Drain
- Will-O-Wisp

Haunter @ Magnet
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 44 SpA / 228 SpD / 236 Spe
Mild Nature
IVs: 10 Def
- Thunderbolt
- Explosion
- Destiny Bond

S
:glalie: Glalie
:haunter: Haunter
:chimecho: Chimecho
:metang: Metang
:wailord: Wailord

S-
:sableye: Sableye
:flareon: Flareon

A+
:bellossom: Bellossom
:hitmonchan: Hitmonchan
:pelipper: Pelipper
:torkoal: Torkoal
:vigoroth: Vigoroth

A
:pikachu: Pikachu
:huntail: Huntail

A-
:dewgong: Dewgong
:seadra: Seadra
:mawile: Mawile
:raticate: Raticate

B+
:kecleon:
Kecleon
:roselia: Roselia
:diglett: Diglett
:relicanth: Relicanth
:golbat: Golbat

B
:whiscash: Whiscash
:wigglytuff: Wigglytuff
:cacturne: Cacturne
:plusle: Plusle
:tangela: Tangela
:octillery: Octillery

B-
:pupitar: Pupitar
:murkrow: Murkrow
:togetic: Togetic
:tropius: Tropius
:pidgeot: Pidgeot
:crawdaunt: Crawdaunt

C
:piloswine: Piloswine
:lickitung: Lickitung
:arbok: Arbok
:omanyte: Omanyte
:minun: Minun
:magcargo: Magcargo
:kingler: Kingler
:sudowoodo: Sudowoodo

lmk if i forgot anything
 

Rabia

is a Site Content Manageris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderator
GP & NU Leader
S Rank

S


:chimecho: Chimecho
:glalie: Glalie
:haunter: Haunter
:metang: Metang Pretty easily fits into the "big 5" group, soft checks a ton of top Pokemon like Haunter, Chimecho, and has broken Explosion
:wailord: Wailord

S-

:flareon: Flareon
:sableye: Sableye It still feels a step below the top 5 but offers a ton to teams, decent amount of versatility with Knock Off, Calm Mind

A Rank

A+


:bellossom: Bellossom
:hitmonchan: Hitmonchan
:pelipper: Pelipper Gets a ton more use now as both an offensive and defensive Water-type, nice Hitmonchan + (non HP Elec) Flareon answer
:torkoal: Torkoal

A

:dewgong: Dewgong
:huntail: Huntail
:pikachu: Pikachu Fits here more than Plusle does given how offensive the tier is and how much less Roselia and Diglett we see nowadays
:raticate: Raticate Hitmonchan is more common again, meaning Mach Punch is more common, so the cheese pinch Berry sets aren't as good
:vigoroth: Vigoroth More Hitmonchan are dropping strong Fighting-type move for very utility-based sets with Mach Punch for STAB, so one of your best rkillers is actually not as good at that as it'd like to be, EVs are incredibly customizable to leverage different matchups into your favor, physical walls that used to be super commonplace like Relicanth, Mawile (tho she on a comeback) aren't as present in this meta. Only issue I've seen it have is 4MSS can be a pain at times

A-


:cacturne: Cacturne
:golbat: Golbat
:mawile: Mawile BP support for Pikachu is great, and it checks Glalie, Vigoroth, and Raticate pretty decently
:murkrow: Murkrow
:octillery: Octillery
:plusle: Plusle
:pupitar: Pupitar Same issues as Raticate, except add on that Reflect Chimecho is a tad more common than it has been + bulkier Haunter existing
:roselia: Roselia Use case for this Pokemon isn't as strong as it has been due to Glalie fulfilling many of the same defensive purposes on top of a vastly superior offensive profile
:sudowoodo: Sudowoodo

B Rank

B


:crawdaunt: Crawdaunt
:diglett: Diglett
:kecleon: Kecleon
:pidgeot: Pidgeot
:relicanth: Relicanth
:seadra: Seadra Moved up from B- because it's frankly just more usable than what was down there
:venomoth: Venomoth
:wigglytuff: Wigglytuff Same as Seadra
:whiscash: Whiscash

B-

:abra: Abra
:arbok: Arbok
:dunsparce: Dunsparce
:kingler: Kingler
:lickitung: Lickitung
:minun: Minun
:tangela: Tangela
:togetic: Togetic It's more usable than what's in C but damn is the bar low
:tropius: Tropius

C Rank

:delcatty: Delcatty
:dragonair: Dragonair
:graveler: Graveler
:grovyle: Grovyle
:houndour: Houndour
:lairon: Lairon
:ledian: Ledian
:magcargo: Magcargo
:piloswine: Piloswine
:poliwhirl: Poliwhirl
:shelgon: Shelgon
:swalot: Swalot
:wartortle: Wartortle
:yanma: Yanma

Heysup Real FV13 gorex Stockings Bughouse @any other advers that want to comment, I encourage you to because I'm gonna do another update soon based on what people generally support moving
 
Cool vr lists but I find Pelipper to be overrated.
The main reason a water type is mandatory in ADV NU is that you need it to beat the other water types such as Wailord and Dewgong.
Pelipper fails at this job very badly.
It needs to be paired with either Roselia (which is bad), Lickitung (A stall mon) or with another Water Type.

It isn't that good of a Hitmonchan answer either as it can click Rock Slide and Hitmonchan can tank a surf pretty well.
Flareon I can understand as it needs HP Grass for Pupitar, however it can always carry HP electric if the user decided he wanted to beat Peli hard.

Finally if I wanted a water that that can sweep with Agility, I would just use the chad rain setter Huntail who already has similar bulk to Peli and can boost his own water attacks .
:v4:
 
Can glalie get banned b4 ancient pl or w/e its called

Peli is spikes immune which is absolutely amazing. Its especially useful against normal/typing types. If its not that good of a hitmonchan answer then nothing is and it should be banned. (for hitmonchan to do well against peli without CB rock sliding it on a switchin or w/e it has to give up ghost or w/e for slide) .As the biggest peli user I dont think I have ever paired it with roselia or lickitung and usually dont have another water on the team. The offensive water types in this tier are extremely threatening, but very manageable and do not require throwing ur own water type in them. Throwing SPD evs on random mons like haunter, chimeco, glalie has always worked for me. Bello and Kecleon exist etc. Peli has the amazing offensive traits of other water types only losing out on the ability to consistently trade with opposing waters. Rain Dance will only give you 4 turns at most while Agil doesnt run out. Protect is in contention for the second best move in the meta.

Hp elec Flareon should prob be more common than hp grass so theres that. Its rarely used, but I suspect its usage to pick up in ancient pl.
 
Thanks for the mention, I started playing the tier recently for the NU Snake, so Im not an expert but I think I can give my opinion about a few mons, although it is probably too subjective:

:metang: to S, as Rabia said, one of most soft checks used for specials in offense, can even switch in against Pikachu with protect, which is the biggest special threat. Agility sweeper, CB, Weather setter+boom... Actually has a lot of options to run, very complete mon.

:hitmonchan: to S-. An Absolute Pain. CB, ToxicSpinner, BU rock slide. To me this is one of the biggest and most unpredictable threats in the tier. Forces bold Chimecho, the most used Chan check, to run protect due the big damages hp ghost does, also non-bulk chan still eats a Psychic. Toxic set can deal with some defensive checks in long term like Restless Sableye/Pelipper. CB or BU Rock Slide can delete easily some Pelipper/Golbat sets.

:Bellossom: to S-. Probably the most controversial. I used and suffered it a lot. The perfect special wall + status and the best weather sweeper with sleep/recovery. Hard to check/counter out of Flareon, sleeptalk full life arbok/golbat/murkow(Insomnia) or the C tiers Togetic and Swalot.

:Pelipper: to Stay in A-. Agility set is interesting. But as i said above, I don't feel it is a good check of Hitmonchan, depends on the set, for sure. In addition, Its outclassed by Wailord and Dewgong to check Metang or any Water Type like Huntail on a rain team due to the big weakness to Hp Electric as RoseyBear said.

:Sableye: to stay in A+. Ye, the best option to counter Hitmonchan and the best blockspinner, really useful but still needs rapid spin to support it and rest against status teams (rest+recover set, restalk set or hbell support) which isn't the most common set. Personally I think it limits you to build offensive.

:pikachu: to Mid A. Destroys everything and you can secure some deads with Thunder/Volt charge or the sub option to predict grass types if Tbolt stab weren't enough. Also theres some ways to send it more often to the field like bp, screens, and sleep users.

:Vigoroth: to A- at least. Solid Taunt leader, BP receiver, BU sweeper, Berry set. Its really interesting and annoying against some kind of teams.

:pupitar: to stay at least in Mid A. Insane damages even at +0 and decent speed. Free setup against some cb locked mons like pidgeot/golbat/arbok/raticate which is interesting and the berry option with sub/endure in situations where you cant DD.

:arbok: to B+. Interesting mon to me depending on the spreads you run. Sun or Hitmonchan soft check. Access to glare/thief and a powerful CB Set.

:Seadra: to B+. Cool powerful lead with multiple item options.

:Mawile: to B+ rank AT LEAST. Good Normal type answer, toxic access and seismi toss to do some chip damage. Perfect BP to get momentum or free entrance to diglett/pikachu/whatever and also a decent SD pass.

:swalot: to B-. Great sun answer + boom access.

:Togetic: to B-. Ye potentially interesting with a great movepool and a sun counter. Very useful as support to gaining momentum like Mawile. I tried to do something with it and I believe Togetic use can increase.

:vibrava: to C?. Outclassed maybe by Digglet (but its a little more resistent) and Pupitar but decent speed and good atk for teams with a lack of solid ground resists. Works as Pupitar check at the same time.

S
:Glalie: Glalie (SS+)
:Haunter: Haunter (SS+)
:Chimecho: Chimecho
:Metang: Metang
:Wailord: Wailord

S-
:Bellossom: Bellossom
:Flareon: Flareon
:Hitmonchan: Hitmonchan

A+
:Dewgong: Dewgong
:Sableye: Sableye
:Torkoal: Torkoal

A
:Huntail: Huntail
:Plusle: Plusle
:Pupitar: Pupitar
:Raticate: Raticate
:Roselia: Roselia
:Vigoroth: Vigoroth

A-
:Cacturne: Cacturne
:Golbat: Golbat
:Murkrow: Murkrow
:Octillery: Octillery
:Pelipper: Pelipper
:Pikachu: Pikachu
:Relicanth: Relicanth
:Whiscash: Whiscash

B+
:Arbok: Arbok
:Crawdaunt: Crawdaunt
:Diglett: Diglett
:Kecleon: Kecleon
:Mawile: Mawile
:Seadra: Seadra
:Pidgeot: Pidgeot
:Sudowoodo: Sudowoodo

B-
:Grovyle: Grovyle
:Kingler: Kingler
:Lickitung: Lickitung
:Minun: Minun
:Shelgon: Shelgon
:Swalot: Swalot
:Tangela: Tangela
:Togetic: Togetic
:Tropius: Tropius
:Venomoth: Venomoth
:Wigglytuff: Wigglytuff

C
:Abra: Abra
:Delcatty: Delcatty
:Dragonair: Dragonair
:Dunsparce: Dunsparce
:Graveler: Graveler
:Houndour: Houndour
:Lairon: Lairon
:Ledian: Ledian
:Magcargo: Magcargo
:Noctowl: Noctowl
:Piloswine: Piloswine
:Poliwhirl: Poliwhirl
:Seviper: Seviper (New)
:vibrava: Vibraba (New)
:Wartortle: Wartortle
:Yanma: Yanma

Feel free to quote me if Im wrong in something or to discuss, its my first VR opinion and as I said is quite subjective. Also sorry about my poor writing.
 
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Big noob who flopped hard in NU snake reporting in.

The meta is developing pretty rapidly right now with advnu being in more team tours and having a more active playerbase that cares about it, due to this some trends are rising and falling at pretty impressive rates. stall is being avoided pretty hard by the playerbase right now despite it seeming to have some real strength on paper and boomspam is proving to be a very strong archetype every tour. ppl have fully trended off of fullpass but I think it's still pretty fucking gross so I'll be putting some random shitmons that otherwise have no place in the tier but fill a strong bp niche in C.

I'll explain the big mons but probably gonna waver off to one liners further down the list.

(ordered)
S Rank
S

:chimecho: Chimecho - Far and away the best pokemon in the tier imo, unmatched set versatility and the fact that it comes in free on some of the other most popular pokemon in the tier is strong enough on it's own, but then you add in the fact that ingame, until fully scouted, it could just be running a set that checkmates any build endgame makes this thing often a headache to play against. The go-to glue stays #1.
:wailord: Wailord - The whale is an obnoxious piece of shit that has some of the best offensive and defensive power in the tier, thankfully these can't /really/ both be done at the same time but it's still able to provide both to a reasonable level while one of the two is the focus. As the go-to water for most teams, and often your own water check it's hard to argue for other things to take it's place in the builder considering the fact that it's almost universally going to have an easy time switching into any team and apply pressure off the bat.
:flareon: Flareon - Horribly underrated at the moment, one of the best generic defensive mons in the tier and provides a strong answer to all the spikers (minus eq glalie), metang, bell and the balance staple mawile. Drypass to generate momentum is one of the best things you can be doing in the tier and I'm honestly shocked that it's not at the front of more people's minds.
:haunter: Haunter - Offensive workhorse that is an absolute monster lategame, as well as being one of 2 (two) viable spinblockers is more than enough of a case for this to stay up here, salac and petaya are both absurd as always and it's utility kit, while underused is nothing to scoff at.

S-
:glalie: Glalie - Premier spiker in the tier but I don't really see it holding S rank anymore, rose and cact are both proving once again to be able to replace this thing on a lot of builds that it would otherwise never be unseen on in the past and the meta is generally getting a lot more hostile towards it now with offense builds being made in ways to almost never let glalie in for free as well as always packing an anti-glalie lead. Still though it's got two very good offensive sets and a serviceable defensive set, can reliably spike vs every team not mentioned above and is actually able to make progress against most teams vs only being able to go after the more specific targets that cacturne would be aiming for so I can't drop it any lower.
:hitmonchan: Hitmonchan - Only rapid spinner even worth considering in the tier, bulky beyond reason and consistently a high-damage-threatening switch in that has the ability to smoke (almost) every single switch in the opponent could have, boggles me that people would have this any lower. Bulk up, band and tank are all incredible for their niche, kept in check decently well by the existence of chime and the fact that it has to do some games of guess who to make the most of it's previously mentioned ability to smoke it's natural switchins.
:sableye: Sableye - Pretty unpopular right now but as always: an absolute monster if it catches the right MU. Very easy glue to put on a team and shore up weaknesses while also being one of two (2) spinblockers in the tier. Unlike a lot of the other mons commonly found on stall this thing can also apply a lot of pressure on it's own be it through cm, stoss or just the fact that it's one of the most consistent mons in the whole tier at getting free toxic opportunities. Staple of the tier and stays up here.
:metang: Metang - Major nightmare for defensive builds stays up top for the same reasons as always, I think that metang is getting a bit worse right now due to the uptick of all the 50/50 bait mons that either get walled and forced to switch by this or just 1tap it and mawile is just stronger in those scenarios generally.


A Rank
A+
:roselia: Roselia
- Really big on rose rn, balance is strong and usually wants this mon way more than glalie or cact. I really don't think I need to go in detail too much about this but I will say that it's even showing up on some harder offenses in glalie's place to make pivoting easier and I fuck w that.
:dewgong: Dewgong - 2nd best water free, doesn't have nearly as many downsides of the other non-wailords but still sits firmly in the whale's shadow. Has a way better utility movepool though and is often better on dumb slow teams.
:torkoal: Torkoal - Koal is really starting to shine lately and finding places on a lot of different structures. very solid glue in the tier and has a distinct niche separate from flareon. Yawn is a killlllllller move on this thing and allows an otherwise anchor of a mon to generate real momentum. Big on this thing rn.
:bellossom: Bellossom - Bell is likely the best weather sweeper right now, but that's kinda hard to say for sure. What really pushes this mon over the top is the fact that, alongside straight sweeping, the defensive sets are gaining more traction and can be really fucking nippy to deal with. sleep is broken as always too.

A
:diglett: Diglett
- Arena trap is absolutely absurd as always, requires BP assistance but it's really not that hard to find a flareon or mawile team that would appreciate having a dig on it. Dig enables some otherwise shaky offenses and can be very matchup skewing on some balances. I think this mon is incredibly slept on atm.
:huntail: Huntail - Surprisingly usable on quite a few different styles, huntail is always something to prep for in builder and always locks up some of the most free endgames in the tier. Happy for it to stay here despite it's absolutely one-dimensional kit.
:mawile: Mawile - MAW IS GOOD, while slightly overshadowed by metang due to the latter's stronger offensive capabilities and variety of sets maw should still be getting played over it in quite a few cases imo. Drypass is great on flareon and almost as great on mawile. Also this thing just doesn't take damage from unboosted phys moves.
:pikachu: Pikachu - Electrics are actually pretty uncommon right now but still stand as being some of the most potent special threats in the tier, their life is made pretty tricky by the frequency of grasses and the fact that they can't really switch into a lot of shit but they're pretty hard to deal with once allowed in, pika makes better use of it's time in play before being forced out or dying right now due to hitting some pretty important breakpoints (wailord being the most important of these.)
:vigoroth: Vigoroth - People are big on this right now for good reason: band and bulk up are both phenomenal balance breakers and both are very solid endgame mons, has some fairly common easy switchins though and faces direct competition from the rat with them both being pretty similar in power level.
:plusle: Plusle - Same spiel on electrics that I rattled out on pika applies here. Plusle finds itself here and not further down the rankings due to the fact that while struggling, it is still an incredible mon in the lategame and is able to fit more utility on it's kit. The ability to pass a sub or encore and pass to safety without needing to predict is a major boost for this lil dude.
:raticate: Raticate - Similar to vig, big strong normal that makes crazy progress vs slower teams and is still able to do work vs offenses. Less variety in what it can realistically run as well as no real setup set make this a bit less usable in my eyes but it's speed and QA are both really good reasons to consider it.
:pelipper: Pelipper - Not as great as it once was due to more and more chan's running slide and most opposing waters running elec but is still an incredible water if these conditions aren't met. All in it's a bit of a fishy mon as things currently stand but I don't think that's enough to drop it lower.

A-
:murkrow: Murkrow
- Worse than bat in regards to switching into chan more than once but outside of that murkrow clears golbat in the offensive bird niche (@chimecho). That alone can be a reason to not bring it, however. Of note: there are some double bird builds floating around after me and expulso toyed with the idea in nupl that seem pretty strong, so you can negate the trouble of decision making by just bringing both :)).
:cacturne: Cacturne - The prickler is currently catching up to glalie in people's minds and is stealing the icy ball's spot on teams more than ever before, it's ability to smack up non-fire chimes and launch off moves that don't get entirely negated by waters without exploding is a big boon right now. Sadly this thing is made of paper and also has worse base speed than rose so it hardly gets to stick around for long in games to show off it's cool niches.
:golbat: Golbat - Pretty much explained this above w murkrow, bat also has some pretty nice midground clicks I guess?
:sudowoodo: Sudowoodo - Staple Boomspam lead but also just launches absolutely mental attacks any time it can come in. focus punch, stab rs and boom is a recipe for disaster with a free turn.
:crawdaunt: Crawdaunt - Momentum machine and forces 50/50s very well. Incredibly fun mon to use and can make endgames pretty simple. Mixed, special and physical are all worth bringing on different teams. I'm crabpilled atm.

B Rank
B

:kecleon: Kecleon - Not often used right now but this thing is pretty demonic on some balances, the core of Kecleon+Relicanth+Chimecho deals with almost the entire tier in only 3 slots and all 3 can consistently apply pressure after coming in. I think it's pretty limited on the builds that can field it so I wouldn't really feel comfortable placing it higher though.
:pupitar: Pupitar - Feels like absolute bait every time I bring this, on paper it's pretty sweet but it's often more trouble to achieve the conditions for setting this up for a sweep than is reasonable.
:pidgeot: Pidgeot - The third bird, not quite as strong as the other two (worse typing than bat, worse hits than krow) but still fills a very similar role and is pretty good at it.
:relicanth: Relicanth - Band is super strong, defensive is great (with kecleon and chime). Pretty good mon with a few glaring weaknesses, the largest of which being that it gets pissmad when some of the mons that you want your water to check actually come in on you and threaten it.
:seadra: Seadra - Seadra's long said to be competing with huntail for teamslots due to their similarities and seadra's niche of not needing rain up freeing up a slot for sub, but I think it's real competition is actually offensive whale. It's /really/ hard to justify bringing this over the whale but it's speed tier does a good job of arguing for it, sometimes.
:minun: Minun - In a vacuum I like this mon a lot but it's often hard to find a place for it over pika/plus when building. I don't really think it's that badly outclassed but the structures that want it are rare.
:venomoth: Venomoth - Very solid offense lead but that's about it.
:whiscash: Whiscash - Definition of an 'OK' mon. Like 'ok I can switch into some hard things and threaten them out once' and 'ok he was hpgrass not hpelectric I guess I have no metang check now.'
:octillery: Octillery - Strong lead and regular headscratcher for balance mid/lategame, I don't think the octoguy is that much stronger than the mons in B- but it's niche is a lot more defined. Also a premier pass recipient.


B-
:lickitung: Lickitung
- Great stallmon but absolutely unviable elsewhere.
:tangela: Tangela - Worse bell as far as sun goes but there is a pretty strong sleep/seed physdef set here that can be incredibly obnoxious for some teams to break through.
:abra: Abra - Overshadowed by haunter/offensive chime pretty hard but this thing is still a turbothreat on HO.
:kingler: Kingler - worse than the other crab but hits physically harder, I've used salac on this in the past but it doesn't feel great.
:tropius: Tropius - Underexplored but potentially quite good rn, could see a case for it going up. I got packed away by this mon in NUSD so might be a bit biased there.
:wigglytuff: Wigglytuff - Great movepool but always seems to get left to the side over other choices (because of it's gooch stats). I think it's a pretty decent wish provider and screens are pretty sweet but that's kinda hard to justify a full slot on your team for.
:arbok: Arbok - I think this thing's pretty shitty in all honestly but it's proven itself enough to not fall to the depths of C.

(not ordered)
C Rank

:Ariados: Ariados - Baton pass.
:Clamperl: Clamperl - Baton Pass.
:delcatty: Delcatty - Baton pass.
:dunsparce: Dunsparce - I think this isn't very good but it's also gone fairly untouched as of late, paraspread is pretty strong but just gimmicking people out is also doable w this.
:graveler: Graveler - Boomspam consideration with stab EQ, not totally unviable.
:ledian: Ledian - Baton pass.
:zigzagoon: Zigzagoon - worse rat
:Magby: Magby - Outspeeds Glalie, has nice coverage.
:magcargo: Magcargo - Kinda overshadowed by torkoal and flare but as normal and bird phys attackers continue to be popular you can see a bit of a use case for this. That use case is however a bit weak considering the fact that all those mons run a fighting or ground type move and will fold this thing in half with them.
:piloswine: Piloswine - How the mighty fall, I think swine is still pretty usable but it seems to do a lot of jobs half as well where other mons can do a couple of those jobs very well. Works for compression but just not great rn.
:poliwhirl: Poliwhirl - I've not seen this once in game ever but I understand it's had past phases of popularity? Seems cute idk tho.
:Ponyta: Ponyta - Cheesy sleep lead, packs a decent punch.
:shelgon: Shelgon - Wish+bulk seems decent but not incredible at what it does. Otherwise overshadowed by pupitar.
:Spinda: Spinda - Baton pass.
:swalot: Swalot - Pretty strong stall mon but also an absolute momentum vacuum, idk I like this quite a bit, could see it reasonably rising if stall trends back up.
:togetic: Togetic - I'm yet to see the hype in person.
:wartortle: Wartortle - Very, very niche spinner.
:yanma: Yanma - Actually fairly strong? Has an impossible time coming in on anything but if it does manage to it can be pretty hard to deal with.
 
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Bughouse

Like ships in the night, you're passing me by
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I have no changes > 1/2 rank since the last time I did one of these. Some reasoning for my own personal rank changes below:

Glalie - is glalie. so versatile. spikes go brrr.
Hitmonchan - removes glalie's spikes, essential coverage for teams weak to endure/sub sweepers. solid speed tier to do stuff.
Huntail - imo back in vogue as people tend to overprep for sun and underprep for rain. the fact that hydro is much stronger than solarbeam with the rain power boost and the fact that it immediately threatens without having to first set weather enable you to run some bulk on it much more easily than you can on bell. that bulk in turn helps keep it less revengeable by priority.
Vigoroth - i'm sure others have said more than I can about vig. still not 100% sold on it being any better than A, but it's certainly not A- like I had it before.
Pikachu - kills things. diglett is worse now.
Whiscash - one of reasonably few things that switches into pikachu, takes advantage of increasing trend of hp electric on flareon for pelipper. stallbreaker is solid. resttalk is quite bulky. more glalie and less cacturne/roselia means you're less likely to encounter a grass since it's mostly just bellossom now.
Arbok - i'm generally speaking higher on most of the mons that clear the 65 speed tier (also kingler, hitmonchan, glalie). as the meta gets more offensive overall, having mons in this tier is valuable. this one is particularly helpful right now as hitmonchan has become better and i haven't seen almost any EQ chans in particular.
Kecleon - special tanks getting better as meta becomes increasingly specially offensive imo. CB Trick messes with a lot of those mons too.
Mawile - I probably just underrated this before since I've been more of a metang and relicanth lover. slow BP is still good.
Lickitung - special tanks getting better as meta becomes increasingly specially offensive imo. knock off is solid.
Togetic - see: lickiting and kecleon, except spike immune and para spreader. The best of the normal blobs imo.
Wartortle - it could only really go up from where it was, and it did win 2 games in nusd so i guess i have to...
Dewgong - the main exception to my "i like things above 65 speed" list. I do still like dewgong but increasingly less so compared to other waters. as i want to use wailord, pelipper, huntail, and whiscash more, i inevitably want to use dewgong less. hate that it's weak to fighting. hate that it doesn't resist meteor mash. it's got a lot of qualities that make it only well suited to double water structures or other offense structures where it doesn't have to switch into things most waters would.
Roselia - every team (even fat ones imo) needs to justify why it's not a glalie.
Cacturne - see Roselia
Pupitar - i don't understand how to build with you anymore :(
Relicanth - i wish the fact that pelipper is rising and flareon should be using hp electric would make me feel confident about using it more but i still don't. I do still like offensive relicanth though. cb is strong and faster than huntail! but i feel like the types of defensive teams that use relicanth aren't great anymore so it's a bit more one dimensional in my mind.
Diglett - will probably come full circle again some day. indeed with pikachu on the rise, maybe it will already.
Murkrow - was already falling before and i was overrating it. drill peck just isn't strong enough at the end of the day to justify this. chimecho isn't like a top 1, super essential to overprep for mon anymore either, so its defensive utility is now close to just to switching into sleep powders and earthquakes.
Tropius - was already falling before and i was slow walking how much to drop it.
Venomoth - barely used, bp is still a fish
Abra - please don't use this. was tempted to UR. But it is still better than at least a few things in C, so either we rank this C or we further trim the Cs to UR.


Full Ranks (Alphabetical within each, and introducing S+/Glalie Tier):

S+/Glalie
:Glalie: Glalie

S
:Chimecho: Chimecho
:Flareon: Flareon
:Haunter: Haunter
:Metang: Metang
:Wailord: Wailord

A+
:Bellossom: Bellossom
:Hitmonchan: Hitmonchan
:Raticate: Raticate
:Sableye: Sableye
:Torkoal: Torkoal

A
:Dewgong: Dewgong
:Huntail: Huntail
:Pelipper: Pelipper
:Plusle: Plusle
:Roselia: Roselia
:Vigoroth: Vigoroth

A-
:Cacturne: Cacturne
:Golbat: Golbat
:Octillery: Octillery
:Pikachu: Pikachu
:Pupitar: Pupitar
:Relicanth: Relicanth
:Whiscash: Whiscash

B+
:Arbok: Arbok
:Crawdaunt: Crawdaunt
:Diglett: Diglett
:Kecleon: Kecleon
:Kingler: Kingler
:Mawile: Mawile
:Murkrow: Murkrow
:Pidgeot: Pidgeot
:Sudowoodo: Sudowoodo

B-
:Grovyle: Grovyle
:Lickitung: Lickitung
:Minun: Minun
:Seadra: Seadra
:Tangela: Tangela
:Togetic: Togetic
:Tropius: Tropius
:Venomoth: Venomoth
:Wartortle: Wartortle

C
:Abra: Abra (would be fine to UR)
:Delcatty: Delcatty
:Dragonair: Dragonair (would be fine to UR)
:Dunsparce: Dunsparce
:Graveler: Graveler
:Houndour: Houndour
:Lairon: Lairon (would be fine to UR)
:Ledian: Ledian
:Magcargo: Magcargo
:Noctowl: Noctowl
:Piloswine: Piloswine
:Poliwhirl: Poliwhirl (would be fine to UR)
:Shelgon: Shelgon
:Swalot: Swalot
:Wigglytuff: Wigglytuff
:Yanma: Yanma


Finally, just noting that although Magby, Seviper, and Vibrava all did see 1 use in NUSD (and Magby and Vibrava won even!) I do not believe any should be ranked.
 

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