I know it scored low on the poll but I personally think Volcarona is still as fucked as ever. I’m seeing it on the ladder more now. Only sure fire way I’ve found to stop it is running an unaware Mon or getting lucky with a very telegraphed trick. It still picks its match ups with Tera and then can just fish them out through out the game. I get why it scored what it did after the first week but I think it’s crazy for it to be removed form polling all together.
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Volcarona Suspect]
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
Most reasonable pokeaimMD metagame analysis
seriously he's a good player but his predictions and analyses are always way off base
I find the metagame almost decent but still general disgust at the amount of 50/50s and match flipping that Tera is causing with Dragons and booster spam. So many of the dragons are running fairy or steel Tera, and each side is bringing a dragon or two of their own. You can’t go by speed tier. You can’t consistently revenge kill (guess wrong = gg), and I find often you can outplay your opponent the entire game and lose anyway because the matchup just instantly flips. Obviously I’m not talking about battles involving stall and extra fat balances.
Dragon is the future my fren!
Talking about dragons, hope Latias or Latios go OU next month (especially Latias cuz there's discussion about Latias being probematic in UU) and the more dragon the merrier
We are not going to suspect anything, but intend to put out another survey in the next week or two to gauge how the metagame is going, with the intent of being very open to a suspect then.The SV OU council is voting internally to determine if we will have a suspect this week or not act, waiting until mid-January to reassess. We are taking everything that had above a 3.0 on the tiering survey here and voting.
This is precisely what I said to council. The vote is ongoing. I will keep you guys updated, but this is my best attempt at being transparent.
received votes from Star, Lily, TPP, ausma, and myself to be suspected, but only 5/11 is just short of getting the majority needed to be suspected. This was by far the closest vote though. 
received votes from Star, Lily, and myself to be suspected, but only 3/11 is not enough to be suspected. 
received a vote from TPP to be suspected, but only 1/11 is not enough to be suspected. 
and 
did not receive any votes to be suspected right now, but remain in our discussions and prominent in the metagam. We intend to survey again in a couple of weeks, specifically following the first week of SPL and the start of OST, which are two of the biggest events in CG OU each year. There is some internal support to act on Kyurem (as the vote shows) and Gouging Fire in particular, but other Pokemon listed also are not entirely out of the woods either.
As for some new faces: Deoxys-Speed felt more pressing weeks ago than it did now. Part of being patient and waiting on things is being a bit more flexible than we previously have been post-release. This shift in approach, which is highlighted by a lot of what prominent players like Vert and Mimikyu Stardust outlined previously, allowed for us to adopt a metagame that is already plenty playable without cycling through prompt bans without getting full community input after some cycles of metagame evolution. The same goes for things like Raging Bolt, which was complained about as much as anything for a few days until things settld down a bit.
As for some prior Ubers: Darkrai was not on the top of our radar, but we will continue to discuss it. One council membr noted concerns about it -- the Hypnosis lead variant in particular, but it has yet to register as a top issue in the metagame. Roaring Moon is a far more commonly noted problem and it did get some support to suspect it, but it is not seen as pressing with people adopting a few different methods of counterplay that did not previously find themselves onto teams.
As for some old friends: Gholdengo is a very controversial topic and while it seems ill-advised to rush a suspect on it when it has less survey support than any point across the last six months, we are listening to discussion on it and intned to keep it on surveys. I personally supported suspecting it at the end of DLC1 and am personally going to promise we keep a close eye on it moving forward. The same goes for Kingambit, too. It makes no sense to suspect either Pokemon when they have results around a 3.0 and there are Pokemon we view as bigger targets while they are still growing into their full place in this developing metagame, but that does not mean we are ignoring them and this does mean more discussions are to come.
hoping stays, i really do like playing a meta where hazards are set up and youre done with them instead of half your turns being a war between hazard removal and setting. i know most people disagree and like to see prominent hazard removal, but i think being banned would have a much more negative effect on the meta than, say, . i for one am happy to see games that move quick and dont have filler turns where progress on either side is undone, and players get properly rewarded for getting a free turn to set up hazards and punished for letting their opponent have a free turn.
i swear im not just biased because its my favourite pokemon.
ive changed my mind on, too; i still think sucker punch mind games are unfun and uncompetitive, but i realise keeps too many things in check to get rid of it. ill gladly take having kingambit as a top-tier threat. all hail the king.
stays, i really do like playing a meta where hazards are set up and youre done with them instead of half your turns being a war between hazard removal and setting. i know most people disagree and like to see prominent hazard removal, but i think being banned would have a much more negative effect on the meta than, say, . i for one am happy to see games that move quick and dont have filler turns where progress on either side is undone, and players get properly rewarded for getting a free turn to set up hazards and punished for letting their opponent have a free turn.ive changed my mind on
, too; i still think sucker punch mind games are unfun and uncompetitive, but i realise keeps too many things in check to get rid of it. ill gladly take having kingambit as a top-tier threat. all hail the king.
*Looks at PFP*hoping
i swear im not just biased because its my favourite pokemon.
ive changed my mind on
I see no conflict of interest with your Gholdengo opinion lmao /j
This is a really different atmosphere to earlier editions of SV OU where there was always something broken and a suspect was happening once a month. I think this metagame might be back on track now. Shoutout to the council for being so open about this whole process, things are looking great and you guys are doing great.
Despite differing opinions, thank you for the transparency, entire council, not only, but especially Finchinator. We (base player) should not confuse excessive talking with little action as a bad thing. I imagine that the behind-the-scenes of past generations have been similar with fewer revelations to the community. Oh my, nightmares about the delay in Zygarde Gen 7.
Let's sit back and watch what stands out in the tournaments, I just want faster processes than 2 weeks suspect regardless of personal frustration.
Let's sit back and watch what stands out in the tournaments, I just want faster processes than 2 weeks suspect regardless of personal frustration.
Council was a bit less active on tiering topics in the past (actually was arguably more of a larger friend group during gen 7, for example), but now we are more active and transparent on topical matters.
i don't even know which side of this argument i'm on anymore
So I been trying been trying defensive 
and its surprisingly good. It has a niche in checking and . It also threatens 
with Will-o-wisp or Parting Shot if you predict switching in.
Parting Shot and Intimidate makes it a great pivot mon. It’s probably not OU material but it has a decent matchup into the top 3.
and its surprisingly good. It has a niche in checking and . It also threatens with Will-o-wisp or Parting Shot if you predict switching in. Parting Shot and Intimidate makes it a great pivot mon. It’s probably not OU material but it has a decent matchup into the top 3.
to me feels overbearing. Has many excellent sets, Specs, Loaded dice DD, Sub HDB special variant, mixed, even bulky variants of this pokemon cause extreme headache. Having to guess between Specs and DD is already hard enough, One wrong turn can be game ending against it, not to mention the substitute sets turn the table completely on most specs and DD “answers.” I think the sheer unpredictability, versatility, and raw breaking/even sweeping potential is too much for OU. I wouldnt mind this staying for a while because I do agree the metagame is balanced, but I dont think Kyurem offers anything healthy to the metagame, to be honest. It’s just really hard to beat in general.it's a great pivot and i agree that it has a niche here and is at the very least workable, but the main issue is that it's a pivot in the most hazard-filled iteration of the most hazard-filled tier ever created. there aren't nearly as many opportunities to safely switch in and out of things these days, which is bad for pivots in particular because that's their whole job. it's especially bad for pivots that are both weak to rocks and vulnerable to spikes because they're forced into boots and have to be extremely wary of knock off. so, not the most friendly and welcoming environment for incineroar here, but it's definitely an all right mon—i'd go so far as to say that any mon that's good into two or more ofSo I been trying been trying defensive
Parting Shot and Intimidate makes it a great pivot mon. It’s probably not OU material but it has a decent matchup into the top 3.
can find a place here
It was early this morning for me and I'm sure the mistake has been corrected by relevant parties, but Golurk absolutely does not learn Shadow Sneak. I would have been on that ages ago.
Wait shit, it doesn't? I checked and it doesn't. That would have been so cool but sadly the golem boy doesn't. Guess I should've doubled checked the facts.
Cries in mamoswine. That mon does great against all three, but doesn't really have much use in this metagame. I've tried it but it has severe 4mss and can be too slow to truly threaten ghold and tusk. Maybe choice scarf mamo?it's a great pivot and i agree that it has a niche here and is at the very least workable, but the main issue is that it's a pivot in the most hazard-filled iteration of the most hazard-filled tier ever created. there aren't nearly as many opportunities to safely switch in and out of things these days, which is bad for pivots in particular because that's their whole job. it's especially bad for pivots that are both weak to rocks and vulnerable to spikes because they're forced into boots and have to be extremely wary of knock off. so, not the most friendly and welcoming environment for incineroar here, but it's definitely an all right mon—i'd go so far as to say that any mon that's good into two or more of
you're a real one
although call me a basic bitch but they are at least on level
like the rainbow spots of colour on the shiny
god minior is so peak
I love that it only fell to UU and not further, mostly due to a challenge I believe to get top 500 with it. Still, anything with shell smash will be looked at and minior is actually fast, once you get it below 50% hp. Fun fact, in it's meteor form (the form with higher defenses) it is immune to status. Imagine always having an immunity to status, that would be too crazy.you're a real one
although call me a basic bitch but they are at least on level
like the rainbow spots of colour on the shiny
god minior is so peak
completely agree, dragon ice and ground is amazing coverage and the fact that even
who doesn't get guaranteed 2HKO by 
unless suns active cant take 3 ice beams feels like it tells me everything, to me is a constant case of not being bulky enough to live most attacks after 2 hits unless you run something like 
, but not being strong enough to take it out before in 1 or 2 hits unless you set up beforehand, mons like 
have to invest at least a good bit into special def to be able to survive, has the immediate power but also the bulk to deal a lot, and this is just about specs, even though dd and other sets aren't as bad, its still something to take note of, idk i've just been growing to hate it for how limiting it feels
can anyone recommend a primarina set?
assault vest psychic noise draining kiss ice beam flip turn/surf/hydropump is what i used.
j0nathan
formerly trainer_j0nathan
That really depends on the Item you want to use.
You can use Specs, AV or even Scarf with
Moonblast, Hyper Voice (+Liquid Voice)/Hydro Pump/Surf (+Torrent), Ice Beam/Psychic/Psychic Noise/Shadow Ball/Energy Ball, Flip Turn
Prim gets a lot of Coverage, you can choose what fits on your Team!
Another Option would be a Leftovers Set with Calm Mind, Draining Kiss, Stored Power and Substitute
Prim gets a lot of Coverage, you can choose what fits on your Team!
I prefer Assault Vest as a bulky pivot on a rain team. Draining Kiss, Hyper Voice, Psychic Noise, Flip Turn. Primarina has a lot of positive matchups and a pretty great movepool, so just pick and choose what matchups you want it to fight.
I prefer flip turn/moonblast/psychic noise/draining kiss with assault vest and tera dark. However, you can pick and choose your items/moves/tera. Primarina is super flexible, heck I once used shadow ball to hit ghold harder. Primarina can either be an insane special wall or a threatening special sweeper, either by choice items or calm mind.
Join the Dark Side. Spam Hypnosis.