Blastoise [GP 0/2]

pancake

movement and location
is a Contributor Alumnus
i can't wait to tell people all of the reasons that they shouldn't use this

people said this was good for gp, there was a miscommunication

qc: avocado, spirit, teachable
gp:

[OVERVIEW]
Blastoise struggles to find a niche for itself in the RU metagame as it is outclassed by anything that it tries to do, leaving it a bad choice for most any RU team. It has access to the highly coveted Rapid Spin in a tier where there are not many hazard removers, but that is about where the good things about Blastoise end. Its generic typing means that it faces competition from other, better defensive Water-types, like Milotic and Quagsire. Blastoise also does not have reliable recovery and is prone to all forms of entry hazards, so it is worn down throughout the match fairly easily. It is also very passive, so it is set-up bait for many common threats, such as Snorlax, Hoopa and Lum Berry Pangoro.Finally, it is unable to threaten common spinblockers like Hoopa, Mega Banette, and Decidueye unless it runs the subpar Foresight, so it fails to reliably get rid of entry hazards in many matchups. While it does beat a few hazard setters like Mega Glalie and Gigalith, it fails to beat the most common ones, including Chesnaught and Roserade. As a result, Gligar, Tsareena, Cryogonal, and even Donphan are better hazard removal options.

[SET]
name: Rapid Spin
move 1: Rapid Spin
move 2: Scald
move 3: Toxic
move 4: Refresh
item: Leftovers
ability: Torrent
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
Rapid Spin is the main draw to Blastoise, as removing the always-relevant Stealth Rock and Spikes allow it to do something marginally useful. Scald threatens physical attackers that would otherwise just set up on Blastoise, such as Feraligatr, with its chance to burn. It also helps threaten Pokemon like Escavalier that are immune to Toxic. Toxic wears down opposing bulky Water-types like Milotic and discourages the foe from setting up more reliably. Refresh cures Blastoise of Toxic poison and burn, which otherwise cripple it as it has no reliable recovery.

Set Details
========
The EV spread and nature maximize Blastoise's physical bulk, allowing it to take on threats such as Feraligatr and Doublade. Leftovers is Blastoise's best passive form of recovery, so it is nearly mandatory if you want to use it. Torrent is marginally better than Rain Dish because rain teams are extremely rare.

Usage Tips
========

Switch into Pokemon that Blastoise checks, such as Milotic, Gligar and Gigalith, in order to use Rapid Spin. Be careful of Knock Off from Pokemon like Pangoro and Escavalier as it leaves Blastoise with no form of reliable recovery. If Blastoise is not running Refresh, Toxic poison and burn from Cresselia and Milotic's Scald do the same thing. Sometimes, going for Scald to fish for burns is the best play because burns can cripple certain common switch-ins to it, like Escavalier and Virizion. Use Toxic on certain set-up sweepers, such as Flygon and Feraligatr, in order to dissuade them from setting up.

Team Options
========
You are better off not using Blastoise, but if you are going to use it, it is best used to support teammates who are weak to hazards, like Moltres, Salazzle and Cloyster. Blastoise is a decent check to Water-types such as Feraligatr, so Pokemon like Gligar and Moltres make good partners. Similarly, Blastoise is very susceptible to Grass-types like Roserade and Shaymin. Use Pokemon like Salazzle and Dragalge to take them on. Finally, since Blastoise has no reliable recovery, Wish users such as Umbreon make decent partners.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============
Normalium Z can be used with Refresh to give Blastoise a one-time full heal, which is unreliable but valuable because Blastoise has no reliable recovery. However, one is already putting themselves at a disadvantage by using Blastoise, so its teammates are better off using Z-moves. Haze makes Blastoise not setup for bait certain Pokemon, such as Rest Snorlax and Substitute Hoopa; it discourages setup from other Pokemon, but Scald and Toxic do that anyway. Ice Beam is an option in order to not give a free switch to Roserade, Venusaur and Shaymin, but is typically outclassed by the utility of Refresh. Foresight allows Blastoise to use Rapid Spin against Doublade and Hoopa, but is a waste of a moveslot most of the time due to its general uselessness. Protect can give you free turns of Leftovers recovery and scout for what moves Choice item users go for, but makes Blastoise even more passive than it already is. Your best option with Blastoise is honestly to not use it, and instead use a different hazard remover, such as Gligar, Sigilyph, Tsareena or Cryogonal.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Grass-types**: Pokemon such as Shaymin, Roserade, Chesnaught, Virizion, Mega Abomasnow and Decidueye are the biggest threats to Blastoise. They can all threaten it out with their powerful STAB moves. Roserade is immune to Toxic and Shaymin does not care about it that much due to Natural Cure, Chesnaught and Roserade can set hazards on it, and Decidueye can prevent it from using Rapid Spin unless it has Foresight.

**Bulky Set-Up Sweepers**: Blastoise cannot touch Pokemon like Curse Snorlax, Hoopa and RestTalk Escavalier, and they can use it as set-up bait unless it has Haze.

**Ghost-types**: Substitute Hoopa, Mega Banette, Mismagius and Decidueye prevent Blastoise from doing its job in using Rapid Spin unless it has Foresight, even though Decidueye should be wary of Scald burns.
 
Last edited:

aVocado

@ Everstone
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
It has scald to threaten a burn on doublade, its actually an ok check to doublade a lot of the time so remove the point about it not threatening doublade in overview

Change set name to Rapid Spin

Remove electric types from c&c. rotom-h isnt a switch in for obvious reasons and rotom-c can be covered by grass types. also remove knock off, everyone hates knock off

QC approved 1/3
 

Conflux

big boy diamonds
is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
AM Check.

Remove mentions of Reuniclus and Heracross as they both got banned.

Not sure if this should go in the Overview or Usage Tips but note how Blastoise beats most Stealth Rock users 1v1 such as Rhyperior, Bronzong, Gligar, Diancie, Torkoal, Archeops, Aerodactyl, and Donphan.

The Usage Tips section seems to have unfinished sentences so I won't comment on this since I'm assuming it's a mistake.

Mention Umbreon in Team Options and how it can provide Wish support and give Blastoise a form of recovery.

Also remove Reuniclus from the Bulky Set-up Sweepers section. Add strong wallbreakers as due to its lack of recovery it can easily get beaten by something like Choice Specs Zoroark. Not sure if it's worth a mention but Toxicroak completely walls Blastoise and can use it as setup fodder.
 

Deleted User 400951

Banned deucer.
AM time:
-Remove Mantine mentions, it's gone now
-Mention that it's not really as bulky as the other waters, making it much worse at that role
-Mention that many hazard setters such as Chesnaught and Nidoqueen (Sludge Wave 2HKOes) just straight-up beat it.
-I think that Haze could see a bump up to moves or even slashed on the set, it's just super passive and set-up bait and haze it its only realistic way to prevent it outside of toxic, which only works against those that take a longer time to set up and the sort, or scald, which is RNG reliant.
-In C&C put electrics, and most hazard setters as it loses to them (in particular chesnaught, can't do jack back and just dies).
 

teachable

Banned deucer.
Hey, I'm the third person replying before QC does but thankfully I'm not giving you an "amcheck" (whatever that is); just some observations from reading this over.
Obviously you're aware of Mantine/Nido so I'm not gonna mention that lol.
[OVERVIEW]
  • Mega Banette is IMO worthy of a mention when covering spinblockers, its a great fit for HO where you probably are most pressured to spin or lose.
[Rapid Spin]
[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
  • When mentioning Scald, mention you're threatening toxic immune pokemon as well, such as Escavalier (I'd say Durant, but you threaten to 2HKO it so not worth mentioning).
Set Details
========
  • Mention Mega Glalie, as its a Spiker it can force out/check.
Usage Tips
========

  • Mention some Pokemon that typically run Knock Off, same for Toxic/Burn.
  • Remove or finish the "If the" bullet point.
  • Mention some of the would-be switchins that are crippled by burn (e.g. Gatr, Escavalier, Doublade).
  • Nitpicky but I think the last bullet mentioning Toxic/set-up sweepers should be "in order to dissuade them from setting up" and not prevent.
Team Options
========
  • Pretty solid, nothing huge to add. Maybe a mention of Ice weak pokemon, as it switches into Mega Glalie OK.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============
  • Finish the "Protect ig" line lol, I'm guessing just a mention of more lefties recovery/z-move stuff?

Checks and Counters
===================
  • Shaymin isn't immune to toxic, but uh I get what you're trying to say (natural cure). Maybe rephrase this a bit.
  • When you mention Hoopa mention Substitute Hoopa, Specs Hoopa can still get status'd.
  • Again, I'd mention Mega Banette.
 

aVocado

@ Everstone
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
u have mantine mentions

replace dhelmise with decidueye everywhere

resttalk lax should be changed into curse lax cuz not every curse lax is resttalk (and i personally think sleep talk is ass)
 
Shouldn't Roar and Dragon Tail be mentioned in OO in combination with stacking up hazard damage and removing set-up sweepers?
 

aVocado

@ Everstone
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
pancake im assuming ur not interested in this anymore since the mega being in the tier completely invalidates regular blastoise so im reassigning, feel free to reserve again if you want
 

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