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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Volcarona Banned]
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
The trailer implied that megas could be back in some form or fashion, so I wanna theorymon in hopes of maybe sparking some discussion as well as farming likes
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Banned megas
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Offensive megas
& 
: Mega zard X is gonna be fucking amazing even with gouging fire on the scene, there are a few differences, zard x is faster and stronger while gouging is a bit more bulky and zard x has an actual ability, so you don't have to use it in sun per se. Zard Y on the other hand will boost its own gouging fire and great tusk as well as all the happy sun frens. It lost roost and support in pursuit which really fucking hurts with this hazard heavy meta + blissey and clod, but it's a lot less passive than torkoal even if it doesn't have defensive utility
psyspam final boss, this also improves the sun matchup because of copying proto synthesis and getting either a speed or a SpA boost (for speed boost, it's max speed timid with 204 spa evs)
incredibly weak to hazards and frail, so not the most reliable wallbreaker but aerialate + sd + return is always fun
Hyper Offense is gonna love this one, mold breaker goes a long way and its bulk + dd lets it set up on shit and boom boom kaboom, should be fun
another "good vs defense but bad vs offense" this one has skill link + pin missile and rock blast, fun
Pixelate hyper voice, but with trace before mega evolving so it can do some fun shit in the attempt to set up + massive move pool, id say webs is gonna love this one for its sheer offensive capabilitys + webs helps her speed in the dress, but Cinderace still solos
OH BOY, the big one, probably the most oppresive mega of the list, you people whine and cry about kingambit, let me tell you something bitch. This thing has better defensive typing, way more damage, knock off, coverage, and the same speed tier, kingambit is physically bulkier and can hold items, but mawile can be used early and mid-game, unlike gambit, but you can also combine the two and use the queen to chew early-mid and let kingambit clear late. You guys don't know true fear yet
this one is a middle point between mawile and loppuny where it has priority to shut down offense while having good damage for defense, but enough speed tier to make it without careful planning + none of the utility or set up, the damage is too good to pass up tho
it's overall worse chomp, but it has 2 things going for him, sand force and the ability to actually run a mix set without feeling like a clown, because I know you people really love luring great tusk, this one's for you, now you actually kill instead of doing like 99% LOL
Oh boy I'm so glad we banned arc, now rain will never be good again :clueless:
(its latios) There are better breakers tbh, I mean its good don't get me wrong, but idk, unless you really wanna use latios, I don't see it
It has sharpness now, so sd psycho cut gotta hurt, and 110 speed ain't that bad, sound like a good cleaner that's harder to use but the damage + movepool can be interesting, fun
My favorite mega. She now has body press, so you can actually go full sweep with Diamond Storm + actual usable stats. You can also just support HOs with anti hazard + hazards + offensive precense
252 SpA Glimmora Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4- SpD Diancie-Mega: 202-238 (83.8 - 98.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Glimmora Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 4- SpD Diancie-Mega: 160-189 (66.3 - 78.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
This calc is proof that even with minus spedef nature + weakness to ground and poison, diancie wins vs lead glimm. And you also shit on ribombee for free, so webs are no longer free vs you. This also buffs volcarona because both are great partners, so you can potentially get away with running another item on volc
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defensive megas
this thing fucking loves the fact that toxapex kinda sucks + ferrothorn not being in the game so It's now the king of defensive grass types by default, can emergency switch on kyurem because thick fat, shits on ogerpon, and loves grassy terrain for extra healing. One bad thing about mega venu is that, it's gonna make the wishkiller shills happy, if you see somebody trying to convince you about getting in the cult of wishkiller, block, report, ignore, for your own safety, please
scizor in ou is always used for its anti-cancer properties, and its mega counterpart it's not exception. It lost roost which really hurts, but It still has defog, combined with his great defenses and some support, fat teams can use this as their win con + anti kyurem + val + enam. knock off also good vs dengo yes
it has knock off + buffed stats, so it has to facilitate sand easier, I hope
+1 252 Atk Protosynthesis Great Tusk Headlong Rush vs. 252 HP / 16 Def Filter Aggron-Mega: 271-321 (78.7 - 93.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Yeah.
I feel like it can be interesting since base form you have regen, and you're now a knock absorber, and it has things like cm and fs and id, but no scald, and the recovery nerf, idk, not really a believer,
for all the stall lovers out there, this is the big one, it has EVERYTHING you want, it has knock off, recover, will-o-wisp, magic bounce and it's a knock absorber, so now you can combine its recover + mola to basically protect donzo even harder from physically knock off users, and in return donzo becomes much better, you can scout, you can troll, you can make progress, you return hazards, your immune to encore and status, all in one lost, which for stall teams this is literally heaven, and for the rest of us its literally hell
NOW HEAR ME OUT, I know altaria is a shit mon, but it KEPT defog + heal bell, also has roost, haze, will o wisp, cotton guard, and with mega evolution, can actually put this movepool (+ pixelate) to good use, so its essentially another defogger for defensive teams that can actually put some elbow grease for you, and I really think this could be a really good pick for bulkier teams
(its latias) The godsend for fat balance teams, tired of using cm clef? Now you can use cm latias, which has levitate + literally everything, INCLUDING draining kiss (which got this gen) I cannot wait to throw my pc in the trash when I see this on smogtours
Lopunny on the defensive mega section doesn't seem too logical since it's fast and strong with poor defenses, but Lopunny has a lot of tools like encore, wish, healing wish, double priority and U-turn, even something like power up punch is good. And Scrappy means that you only really need STAB to pound everything in the tier, so you can experiment around as an anti tera cheese mon. As an offensive mon that is good vs offense it has competition from zamazenta who walls everything with ID and BP + a better matchup vs the birds, and it's faster, but Lopunny's better movepool + offenses can make it worth it. There's also the fact that [USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST]
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Not OU megas
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what do you guys think, agree, disagree, here's the mic, now speak
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Banned megas
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Offensive megas
& : Mega zard X is gonna be fucking amazing even with gouging fire on the scene, there are a few differences, zard x is faster and stronger while gouging is a bit more bulky and zard x has an actual ability, so you don't have to use it in sun per se. Zard Y on the other hand will boost its own gouging fire and great tusk as well as all the happy sun frens. It lost roost and support in pursuit which really fucking hurts with this hazard heavy meta + blissey and clod, but it's a lot less passive than torkoal even if it doesn't have defensive utility psyspam final boss, this also improves the sun matchup because of copying proto synthesis and getting either a speed or a SpA boost (for speed boost, it's max speed timid with 204 spa evs) incredibly weak to hazards and frail, so not the most reliable wallbreaker but aerialate + sd + return is always fun Hyper Offense is gonna love this one, mold breaker goes a long way and its bulk + dd lets it set up on shit and boom boom kaboom, should be fun another "good vs defense but bad vs offense" this one has skill link + pin missile and rock blast, fun Pixelate hyper voice, but with trace before mega evolving so it can do some fun shit in the attempt to set up + massive move pool, id say webs is gonna love this one for its sheer offensive capabilitys + webs helps her speed in the dress, but Cinderace still solos OH BOY, the big one, probably the most oppresive mega of the list, you people whine and cry about kingambit, let me tell you something bitch. This thing has better defensive typing, way more damage, knock off, coverage, and the same speed tier, kingambit is physically bulkier and can hold items, but mawile can be used early and mid-game, unlike gambit, but you can also combine the two and use the queen to chew early-mid and let kingambit clear late. You guys don't know true fear yet this one is a middle point between mawile and loppuny where it has priority to shut down offense while having good damage for defense, but enough speed tier to make it without careful planning + none of the utility or set up, the damage is too good to pass up tho it's overall worse chomp, but it has 2 things going for him, sand force and the ability to actually run a mix set without feeling like a clown, because I know you people really love luring great tusk, this one's for you, now you actually kill instead of doing like 99% LOL Oh boy I'm so glad we banned arc, now rain will never be good again :clueless: (its latios) There are better breakers tbh, I mean its good don't get me wrong, but idk, unless you really wanna use latios, I don't see it It has sharpness now, so sd psycho cut gotta hurt, and 110 speed ain't that bad, sound like a good cleaner that's harder to use but the damage + movepool can be interesting, fun My favorite mega. She now has body press, so you can actually go full sweep with Diamond Storm + actual usable stats. You can also just support HOs with anti hazard + hazards + offensive precense252 SpA Glimmora Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4- SpD Diancie-Mega: 202-238 (83.8 - 98.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Glimmora Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 4- SpD Diancie-Mega: 160-189 (66.3 - 78.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
This calc is proof that even with minus spedef nature + weakness to ground and poison, diancie wins vs lead glimm. And you also shit on ribombee for free, so webs are no longer free vs you. This also buffs volcarona because both are great partners, so you can potentially get away with running another item on volc
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defensive megas
this thing fucking loves the fact that toxapex kinda sucks + ferrothorn not being in the game so It's now the king of defensive grass types by default, can emergency switch on kyurem because thick fat, shits on ogerpon, and loves grassy terrain for extra healing. One bad thing about mega venu is that, it's gonna make the wishkiller shills happy, if you see somebody trying to convince you about getting in the cult of wishkiller, block, report, ignore, for your own safety, please scizor in ou is always used for its anti-cancer properties, and its mega counterpart it's not exception. It lost roost which really hurts, but It still has defog, combined with his great defenses and some support, fat teams can use this as their win con + anti kyurem + val + enam. knock off also good vs dengo yes it has knock off + buffed stats, so it has to facilitate sand easier, I hope +1 252 Atk Protosynthesis Great Tusk Headlong Rush vs. 252 HP / 16 Def Filter Aggron-Mega: 271-321 (78.7 - 93.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth RockYeah.
I feel like it can be interesting since base form you have regen, and you're now a knock absorber, and it has things like cm and fs and id, but no scald, and the recovery nerf, idk, not really a believer, for all the stall lovers out there, this is the big one, it has EVERYTHING you want, it has knock off, recover, will-o-wisp, magic bounce and it's a knock absorber, so now you can combine its recover + mola to basically protect donzo even harder from physically knock off users, and in return donzo becomes much better, you can scout, you can troll, you can make progress, you return hazards, your immune to encore and status, all in one lost, which for stall teams this is literally heaven, and for the rest of us its literally hell NOW HEAR ME OUT, I know altaria is a shit mon, but it KEPT defog + heal bell, also has roost, haze, will o wisp, cotton guard, and with mega evolution, can actually put this movepool (+ pixelate) to good use, so its essentially another defogger for defensive teams that can actually put some elbow grease for you, and I really think this could be a really good pick for bulkier teams (its latias) The godsend for fat balance teams, tired of using cm clef? Now you can use cm latias, which has levitate + literally everything, INCLUDING draining kiss (which got this gen) I cannot wait to throw my pc in the trash when I see this on smogtours Lopunny on the defensive mega section doesn't seem too logical since it's fast and strong with poor defenses, but Lopunny has a lot of tools like encore, wish, healing wish, double priority and U-turn, even something like power up punch is good. And Scrappy means that you only really need STAB to pound everything in the tier, so you can experiment around as an anti tera cheese mon. As an offensive mon that is good vs offense it has competition from zamazenta who walls everything with ID and BP + a better matchup vs the birds, and it's faster, but Lopunny's better movepool + offenses can make it worth it. There's also the fact that [USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not OU megas
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what do you guys think, agree, disagree, here's the mic, now speak
If Walking Wake and Kyurem aren't on the survey, then that leaves 2 slots to Enamorus, Samurott-Hisui, Serperior, and Zamazenta. I've ruled out Deoxys-Speed since Finchinator said the Council doesn't think Deo-S is a problem. Personally, I have no strong inkling on which 2 of those 4 will be on the survey, but considering the horrible state of hazards right now, I shall guess that Samurott-Hisui and Enamorus are on the survey based on Ceaseless Edge's effectiveness as a move and Enamorus's threat level with Tera. Zamazenta is a really useful glue mon that has a lot of good effects on the meta, so I feel it is less likely to be on the survey than the other 3 .
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Serp and Emma probably. Although I can’t stand Zama and rather it have never been dropped. Not a fan of a mon being able to invalidate an entire team archetype (physical offense).
No serp or enam
Then the remaining 2 are Samurott-Hisui and Zamazenta. Thanks for ruling out so many mons, Finch.
No samu
man I hate Gouging Fire. Roaring Moon pales in comparison imo, when the 2 most common priority users check it well (Gambit and Dnite). Gouging Fire is just so bulky, especially physdef, and most priority is physical
Hate to burst your bubble, but if Legends ZA is similar to Legends Arceus, then this will likely be irrelevant until next generation. When Legends Arceus released, its Pokemon was only transferable until the next generation (Scarlet/Violet) instead of the existing one (Sword/Shield). Also, some of the Pokemon that can mega is straight up not in gen 9, so they may likely be saving them for next generation instead.The trailer implied that megas could be back in some form or fashion, so I wanna theorymon in hopes of maybe sparking some discussion as well as farming likes
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Banned megas
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Offensive megas
252 SpA Glimmora Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4- SpD Diancie-Mega: 202-238 (83.8 - 98.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Glimmora Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 4- SpD Diancie-Mega: 160-189 (66.3 - 78.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
This calc is proof that even with minus spedef nature + weakness to ground and poison, diancie wins vs lead glimm. And you also shit on ribombee for free, so webs are no longer free vs you. This also buffs volcarona because both are great partners, so you can potentially get away with running another item on volc
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defensive megas
Yeah.
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Not OU megas
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what do you guys think, agree, disagree, here's the mic, now speak
Of course, it only really comes down to if GameFreak is willing to add additional content updates to Scarlet/Violet, but it seems unlikely since all the DLCs are over.
every time we rule out a pokemon it gets more and more likely the last pokemon on the survey is Lokix
edit: cowards
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No lokix
Neither
In an ideal world, we would ban Spikes + Ceaseless Edge. The reasoning behind this is that dealing with Toxic Spikes isn't too hard with common Pokemon such as Gking and Rocks on their own are not too bad either against most Pokemon (and the ones they are effective against can simply opt for boots). Spikes can be stacked & makes boots mandatory for any Grounded mon, which is much wider than the number of SR weak mons forced to run boots imo. Notably, most defensive Pokemon are forced to run boots & are completely fucked if they get Knocked off.
Gholdengo could be banned but imo it will not make much of a dent on the situation. Many of the strongest Hstacks are not running Gholdengo, instead opting for other mons like Gking + Skarm + Ting-lu or Gking + Skarm + Gliscor. Corviknight does fine enough vs these builds, but it is still prone to being worn down over time by Rocks chip , ruination chip from ting-Lu, etc. Other options like Great Tusk just get Knocked and lose the long game, though Gtusk + Corv can work well enough vs these bulkier builds, same with Mandibuzz. There also arent enough alternatives hazard removal options like there was in prior gens, which youll see if you take a list of the hazard removers for gen 9 (most of which are Spikes weak). I don't think this is a case where we can ban the top 5 Spikers and fix the issue either. Gliscor imo is a necessary evil because it is one of the only Knock Off absorbers in the tier. We also need ting-lu for raging bolt & various other mons.
Vert must have voted to put Dondozo on the survey as the last mon must not be an offensive mon unless it's Darkrai.
TCTphantom
formerly MX42
My guess for the survey mons
I'll just say I would only give Roaring Moon a 4 right now. I am debating on whether I would give Gouging Fire a 4, but I do not think it is an issue. I think some of these mons (cough Waterpon) will get some vocal detractors but I think most of these are fine. TBH, the meta is in a tricky spot since I do not think most of these mons are broken per say. Like, if Zama and Pult are on the survey, they aint getting above a 1 from me. I would rather not ban something just for the sake of making the tier have less threats, that is just a pointless game of whack a mole. If we ban a mon like Roaring Moon, I want it to be due to how it functions in practice and in terms of the overall metagame.
I'll just say I would only give Roaring Moon a 4 right now. I am debating on whether I would give Gouging Fire a 4, but I do not think it is an issue. I think some of these mons (cough Waterpon) will get some vocal detractors but I think most of these are fine. TBH, the meta is in a tricky spot since I do not think most of these mons are broken per say. Like, if Zama and Pult are on the survey, they aint getting above a 1 from me. I would rather not ban something just for the sake of making the tier have less threats, that is just a pointless game of whack a mole. If we ban a mon like Roaring Moon, I want it to be due to how it functions in practice and in terms of the overall metagame.
This is fun - at this point it sounds like the mystery 2 are Zama and Iron Boulder, who I almost feel would serve as control groups but sounds like there's a bit of division on Zama which is valid. Or I was right and it is Dnite but I think that's a little unlikely given the complete lack of discussion around even though I think it's kind of a sus mon (not banworthy at this time but kind of questionable)
It also could be ZamC and Chien Pao, to drop. I personally think ZamC is unlikely and a bad drop candidate but a few people have mentioned it and Finch tacitly implied Zam would be somewhere on the survey
It also could be ZamC and Chien Pao, to drop. I personally think ZamC is unlikely and a bad drop candidate but a few people have mentioned it and Finch tacitly implied Zam would be somewhere on the survey
No boulder
No pult
No dozo
No pult
No dozo
This is it guys they're finally gonna drop Solgeleo
boulder is broken but zama c and chien pao should drop to svou... BAHAHAHAHHAHAHA pal. if zama is on the survey for potentially being broken why do we drop the better version of it in the tier? and what walls chien pao? please enlighten me also also also boulder fucking sucks in ou rn
Nope
At this point, since Finchinator has ruled out so many mons, it's either Darkrai or a vote for an Uber Pokemon dropping to OU. I'd say that the three least broken Ubers are Lugia, Giratina-Altered, and Zamazenta-Crowned. If the last mon on the survey is none of those 4, I would really be surprised.
thank god no solgaleo drop but are we dropping any uber period