Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Volcarona Banned]

That and its ability is useless with Hypnosis and Dark Void being way too unreliable
people insisting hypnosis sets are useless are just as wrong as people insisting hypnosis sets are broken. the one thing those replays turd2 kept spamming does prove is that hypnosis darkrai is not a useless meme option—it's a good stallbreaking tech that's useful for scouting clefable's ability, and 4-5 high-ladder replays are enough evidence to say that the set has at least some place in the tier where it performs well, even if it only sees results against certain team structures
 
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people insisting hypnosis sets are useless are just as wrong as people insisting hypnosis sets are broken. the one thing those replays turd2 kept spamming does prove is that hypnosis darkrai is not a useless meme option—it's a good stallbreaking tech that's useful for scouting clefable's ability, and 4-5 high-ladder replays are enough evidence to say that the set has at least some place in the tier where it performs well, even if it only sees results against certain team structures
60% of the time it’s broken, 40% it’s useless.
 
people insisting hypnosis sets are useless are just as wrong as people insisting hypnosis sets are broken. the one thing those replays turd2 kept spamming does prove is that hypnosis darkrai is not a useless meme option—it's a good stallbreaking tech that's useful for scouting clefable's ability, and 4-5 high-ladder replays are enough evidence to say that the set has at least some place in the tier where it performs well, even if it only sees results against certain team structures
60% of the time it’s broken, 40% it’s useless.
I think what was implied was that against slower, more defensive teams, Darkrai has more chance to roll that 60%. While missing one 60% against an offense team can mean death, against a more stall-ish team it's less impactful.
 
Still want to suspect Booster Energy more than Roaring Moon, though, and also think that between Gourging Fire and a myriad of paradoxes for Sun, and Archaludon for Rain, we may be in the prelude to a Weather talk. Maybe. Sun, at least, is kinda too good right now imo.
how many mechanics are we going to consider banning instead of accepting that some of the paradox mons are just broken
 
As many as people will do, because people would rather stand on a burning hill than realise "oh shit, I was wrong about this".
*puts on tinfoil hat*
i'll tell you what it is, it's cool design privilege. the mons look cool, so people are subconsciously less inclined to ban them and more inclined to bend over backwards to keep them. why do you think "silly hat mechanic" got focused on before "badass ghost monkey" or "tiger with swords for teeth"? why do you think people got bent out of shape about "flaming moth seraphim" getting quickbanned with no survey but not "rainbow turtle"? why do you think the first two quickbans of dlc2 were "goofy-ass smooth-headed stubby-armed ice frog-dragon" and "gremlin hiding behind a mask", while "kickass blood zombie bear that shoots lasers" got an entire suspect? it's a conspiracy i tells ya
 
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*puts on tinfoil hat*
i'll tell you what it is, it's cool design privilege. the mons look cool, so people are subconsciously less inclined to ban them and more inclined to bend over backwards to keep them. why do you think "silly hat mechanic" got focused on before "badass ghost monkey" or "tiger with swords for teeth"? it's a conspiracy i tells ya
If that were true, why are more people inclined to want Roaring Moon banned when it looks sick as hell, but not Iron Boulder when it’s one of the worst designs in the game?
 
If that were true, why are more people inclined to want Roaring Moon banned when it looks sick as hell, but not Iron Boulder when it’s one of the worst designs in the game?
*puts on aluminium bowler*
Ah, but you see, it circles back around, if something is so ugly and disgusting that everybody hates it, it comes around to the cool attributes of people wanting to ban it. Except after a while, people will realise they were wrong for once. Game freak has created iron boulder to test the waters so they can finally create the ugliest design known to man and people will contest that it is not broken despite being the most horrific thing that has graced our eyes and potentially competitive. I tell you, paradoxes of the monkey trio are coming soon. It is written in the stars.
 
*puts on tinfoil hat*
i'll tell you what it is, it's cool design privilege. the mons look cool, so people are subconsciously less inclined to ban them and more inclined to bend over backwards to keep them. why do you think "silly hat mechanic" got focused on before "badass ghost monkey" or "tiger with swords for teeth"? it's a conspiracy i tells ya
They banned the silliest looking dolphin known to mankind. That being said, there are truth to this, but instead of "cool design", I feel like Roaring Moon feels good to use (not that it feels good to be on the other side of that thing). You click buttons and positive things happens. Real dopamine boost.
 
because iron boulder is conceptually cooler. iron boulder's a robot with light-swords coming out of its face. roaring moon's basically just a dragon and we have a million of those
Hell nah. Terrakion already look like a cow that was lobotimized at certain angles once it went 3D. Iron Boulder somehow made it worse. It needs a quick ban to AG with how ugly it is. At least have the “Iron Boulder Clause” where its model is removed.
If it wasn’t actually super good no one would use it.
 
Hell nah. Terrakion already look like a cow that was lobotimized at certain angles once it went 3D. Iron Boulder somehow made it worse. It needs a quick ban to AG with how ugly it is. At least have the “Iron Boulder Clause” where its model is removed.
If it wasn’t actually super good no one would use it.
Counterpoint: Iron Boulder looks like Bigweld and the thought of him throwing hands with the likes of Great Tusk and Kingambit is extremely funny and so we're keeping him in the tier off of that alone
 
PokeaimMD just called Incineroar B-tier, live on stream. This is insane. Certainly a big win for Incineroar enjoyers worldwide. Apparently more people have started using Incineroar. This is a fascinating development.
Very far from B in my eyes, but resisting Gholdengo, Kingambit, Delphox, Weavile, Skeledirge and Rillaboom/Serperior STABs is huge.
 
Are they really crappy replays when I've shared 5 replays of Darkrai doing the exact same thing, against the same exact type of team, all against players within the top 100 on the OU ladder? Seems like a trend at that point.
Same point I made yesterday. 5 replays out of (DaddyBuzzwole answered this last time) is a mere fraction of all high ladder :darkrai: games. Cherry picking.
The issue with :darkrai: is that he only has 1 STAB and it's 80 BP. And no matter which coverage moves you give him, he's still walled by a few mons.
Would Darkrai be under the definition of 4MSS? I hear a lot of flinging it around, and I can't be sure if it works or not.

Also, the Pokemon Evolution of the Moon.

:ss/lunatone:--->:ss/lunala:--->:Sv/roaring moon:--->:sv/ursaluna-bloodmoon:
 
Same point I made yesterday. 5 replays out of (DaddyBuzzwole answered this last time) is a mere fraction of all high ladder :darkrai: games. Cherry picking.

Would Darkrai be under the definition of 4MSS? I hear a lot of flinging it around, and I can't be sure if it works or not.

Also, the Pokemon Evolution of the Moon.

:ss/lunatone:--->:ss/lunala:--->:Sv/roaring moon:--->:sv/ursaluna-bloodmoon:
Waiting for turd to post the ~45 games between said 5 games where there was no 6-0 sweep ;_;

Excited to see what happens with roaring rawr, why oh why does knock off have to do bonus damage when removing an item :(
 
Waiting for turd to post the ~45 games between said 5 games where there was no 6-0 sweep ;_;

Excited to see what happens with roaring rawr, why oh why does knock off have to do bonus damage when removing an item :(
Honestly, I wish they kept it as it's crappy 20 damage because it was still an amazing move. Quite low distribution and just removing a mon's item was great. Yeah, the damage is insane on the buffed version, but comeon, I want hariyama to have some niche over other fighting types. :(

Also, I am cooking up another 6 gimmick sets I will release either today or tommorow.
 
Honestly, I wish they kept it as it's crappy 20 damage because it was still an amazing move. Quite low distribution and just removing a mon's item was great. Yeah, the damage is insane on the buffed version, but comeon, I want hariyama to have some niche over other fighting types. :(

Also, I am cooking up another 6 gimmick sets I will release either today or tommorow.
Is it 6 different hypnosis darkrai sets?
 
No, that would be too op obviously. Hint, it includes a whimsicott set.
Edit: Nearly finished testing the sets and let me say, with one of them I ko'd three of their mons. Definetely will be released today.
Hype hype hype hype is it Kilowattrel and Shiftry?
 
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Okay, time for round two of my gimmick sets. Morkal, I'm coming for your job. (Jk, you inspired me to do this and it has been really fun, thank you very much :) )

:sv/emboar:
Emboar @ Salac Berry
Ability: Blaze
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blast Burn/flamethrower
- Scald
- Endure
- Focus Blast
Probably the more gimmicky of the sets in this round, it mainly came around from the thought of "huh, emboar has scald". Thus, I decided to create a special emboar set and this rose from the ashes. I originally picked blast burn for one final nuke but flamethrower can be chosen for a more consistent option. At plus one, timid emboar can reach 376 speed it can outspeed adamant zamazenta. Not the greatest set, as focus blast is your only fighting special move, but it is decent. You swap out focus miss for grass knot if you want to screw over waters harder.

:sv/klefki:
Klefki @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Iron Defense
- Calm Mind
- Stored Power
- Rest
The first of two prankster mons in this round, klefki is one of only two mons is SV that has prankster and stored power, the other being meowstic male. However, while meowstic-m has stab on stored power, klefki has a better defensive typing and iron defensive. With prankster you can be guarenteed to get a boost off, which can start the snowball needed to win a game. Tera psychic was chosen to make stored power more powerful, but a defensive tera could also work. Rest allows for reliable healing and means you can keep on boosting. You do lose insanely hard to dark types, so draining kiss could be better.

:sv/golurk:
Golurk @ Eject Button
Ability: Klutz
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpA
Brave Nature
- High Horsepower
- Heavy Slam
- Poltergeist
- Trick
Golurk is the only fully evolved mon in SV with klutz, the other being baby mons. I first wanted to try out a flame orb set with hex, though I thought it wouldn't do well. There is Rotom heat, chandelure and delphox that can do this set and gholdengo, bronzong, glowking, gengar and munkidori with toxic orb if you want to try it out. I then decided on eject button, though red card could be interesting as well. This allows you to hit a mon with poltergeist super hard and switch them out. Sadly, knock off doesn't work this way. Rest of the moves are standard to hit other types. Golurk I find interesting as it is so close to being top tier, three immunites is amazing but like drifblim, they "balance" them.

:sv/deoxys-defense:
Deoxys-Defense @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Iron Defense
- Amnesia
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
Probably the best in terms of "viability" of these mons but this is one of those, crit me not sets. You know the drill by now, boost both defenses super high and hope you don't get crit to make your opponents hit like a wet noodle. You could slot in stored power over the attacking moves if you want more damage, but I think that this set has opened my eyes to the fact that "damn, nobody talks about Deo-D". I know its for a reason, but there is unexplored potential in Deo-D. Hope once the meta becomes more worked out, things like Deo-D can truly shine, I think we may be underselling it a tiny bit. (half of this explanation was about how Deo-D is underrated, wtf)

:sv/lapras:
Lapras @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Curse
- Ice Shard
- Liquidation
A favourite of mine, lapras has fallen harder than the meteorite that killed the dinosaurs. It used to be UUBL in gens 1-3, but was ZU in gens 7-8. However, lapras has a cool move in dragon dance and combine that with curse, you can increases it's offenses exponentially while increasing its defenses. The speed changes in both of these moves cancel each other out, making it a potent sweeper. Tera bug I found was quite good as you threaten the fire, flying and rock types with your stabs. Ice shard is good for priority and can mean that you can outspeed faster mons if you can't get enough boosts from dd. Lapras has solid stats overall, but suffers from their equal distribution and its awful ice typing.

:sv/whimsicott:
Whimsicott @ Mental Herb
Ability: Prankster
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 232 HP / 252 SpA / 24 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Cotton Guard
- Growth
- Giga Drain
- Light Screen
Finally, we have whimsicott. This set idea came from my indigo disk playthrough, where my whimsicott that carried had cotton guard when I caught it as a cottonee actually used this move to stall out npc trainers. Thus, I decided to create another crit me not sweeper (I have 3 on this team, wtf, next time I'll do more variety of sets) Cotton guard is busted, boosting defense by 3 stages. If anything remotely good or even decent got this, it would be potentially broken. Light screen allows you to guard on the special side, as you don't get calm mind or amnesia. Growth means that you can boost your offenses by a lot once you get set up. Finally, giga drain gives recovery as sadly, you don't get giga drain. Mental herb prevents taunt attempts to stop you from going, while tera steel is good defensively.

Overall, I had fun with this, which was the main point. I will probs do other sets of more lower tier mons (like kilowattrel and shifty, thank you
NotDaProGamer for the ideas, already cooking some ideas for them, like wind power kilo potentially or imprison shifty), so look out for those.
 

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