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This Salamence slaughters everything
- Thread starter Aero
- Start date
Oh yeah, and Blissey and Cress totally own you with Ice Beam thanks to you eating up 10% of your health every time you attack. Nevermind what Stealth Rock+Life Orb does to your HP.
You say you lose 10% of your health and then you mention Life Orb. So your sentence should actually be, "Nevermind what Stealth Rock does to your HP."
You say you lose 10% of your health and then you mention Life Orb. So your sentence should actually be, "Nevermind what Stealth Rock does to your HP."
Blissey never gets the chance to use Ice Beam because Salamence 2HKO's with Brick Break. Once as it switches in, and again because I am faster. Obviously I need prediction for this, but it also works if the Blissey is weakened as Draco Meteor + Brick Break does about 70%.
Cresselia will only own you with Ice Beam if it is at full HP. If it is only a little weakened, it risks getting KO'd by Draco Meteor + Crunch, which you don't even really need to predict for as Draco Meteor will be the move you will be using most of the time anyways. Also, if Cresselia has less than 220 SAtk you can Roost through Ice Beams reliably with 120 HP EV's.
Of course the recoil and residual damage overall is a problem but SpecsMence has to switch in and out even more than the Life Orb set early game due to the locking of moves, meaning it takes more damage from stealth rock than this variant does. Overall specsmence doesn't have a huge advantage over mixmence as far as residual damage goes.
Seeing as how you're using Draco Meteor pretty much just as much as SpecsMence does, Garchomp isn't going to give you considerably more problems than SpecsMence does.
I have the calculations on Cradily with Sandstorm; I did from the start.
I wasn't trying to be groundbreaking -- like I said, this is a very obvious set, but IMO it is much more than mediocre.
As surgo stated earlier, I've been using a mence like this for quite some time. Although it has not been on most of my recent teams, I can assure you, this thing is a monster if you can predict. Crunch does give you a chance to get rid of cresselia who is one of the main pokes that wall you. However, like a chainchomp team, you should have weavile/heracross on any team with this. This salamence gets worn out very quickly and should have roost instead of crunch. Having 160 Base power vs cresselia may be tempting, but with life orb, stealth rock, and possibly sandstream, roost will be a lot more beneficial. If you can't predict, this thing won't do you much good.
Olldd set isss ooooldddd....
It's a cool set. I used pumps over Fire Blast though. But that's just me, and I will get disagree'd with.
It's a cool set. I used pumps over Fire Blast though. But that's just me, and I will get disagree'd with.
I repeat my earlier statement: Electivire 2HKO's everything that switches in to a move that hits it SE.
I suppose in plainer speak, that means "this set requires immense prediction prowess." Yeah, Brick Break 2HKO's Bliss. Draco Meteor doesn't and Fire Blast and Crunch certainly don't.
Draco Meteor + Crunch 2HKOs Cress, but BB + Anything doesn't.
Also, I didn't say the set was mediocre, I said it was generic. This set is basically the ChainChomp set everyone has been raving about, only with higher SA and lower Attack.
I agree with pretty much everything you say.
That being said, notice that Draco Meteor does 31.65% - 37.25% to Blissey. Blissey will need to have 91% HP in order to definitely survive that Draco Meteor + the coming Brick Break with leftovers (although you probably won't want to Brick Break unless Blissey has more like 80% from the start, to give you a better shot at the KO). Yes, Blissey is usually very healthy in battles, but it's still something to consider.
In fact, you can open with Draco Meteor every time if you know the opposing Blissey is slightly damaged. You can finish off almost any Pokemon with some random move after hitting them with a Draco Meteor. Prediction is obviously needed, but not THAT much -- I'd say its at least on par with SpecsMence as far as how much you need goes.
I've actually been using a set very similar to this with different EVs (which I am still playing with) since about May/June (when I was in my slap Draco on everything phase), but its really unstable and needs someone with the know how to operate it.
Random EVs that I don't feel like digging out
-Dragon Dance
-Earthquake
-Draco Meteor
-Fire Blast
I gave it enough speed (300) to outspeed other neutral Salamences, and it can 2hko Blissey after 1 DD, the Speed boost then lets it take on other Pokemon that Salamence normally wouldn't want to, like Weavile and Garchomp. It suits my style of play which is reckless and aggressive, but I don't think this is the end all of Pokemon sets, it doesn't touch Cresselia, and several drops will ruin it. But I have been using it in the beginning of the game for quick damage with Draco and endgame sweeping, both of which it has been great at. Its not a stable set and by no means should be used by someone uncomfortable with it, Specsmence and DDmence do their jobs much better, this just combines the best of both worlds to cause the opponent to panic and figure out whats going on before something even more terrible happens.
The second move (Earthquake) leaves it open to some problems, this Mence has moveset syndrome and could benefit from an extra move, Crunch, Brick Break, Aerial Ace, Earthquake all do great damage to some things but then leave you open to other things (which can be counter by other teammates), which is why the DDDracoMence isn't the end all of Pokemon sets.
Random EVs that I don't feel like digging out
-Dragon Dance
-Earthquake
-Draco Meteor
-Fire Blast
I gave it enough speed (300) to outspeed other neutral Salamences, and it can 2hko Blissey after 1 DD, the Speed boost then lets it take on other Pokemon that Salamence normally wouldn't want to, like Weavile and Garchomp. It suits my style of play which is reckless and aggressive, but I don't think this is the end all of Pokemon sets, it doesn't touch Cresselia, and several drops will ruin it. But I have been using it in the beginning of the game for quick damage with Draco and endgame sweeping, both of which it has been great at. Its not a stable set and by no means should be used by someone uncomfortable with it, Specsmence and DDmence do their jobs much better, this just combines the best of both worlds to cause the opponent to panic and figure out whats going on before something even more terrible happens.
The second move (Earthquake) leaves it open to some problems, this Mence has moveset syndrome and could benefit from an extra move, Crunch, Brick Break, Aerial Ace, Earthquake all do great damage to some things but then leave you open to other things (which can be counter by other teammates), which is why the DDDracoMence isn't the end all of Pokemon sets.
This is the rather flawed part of your argument. Electivire does not 2HKO everything that switches into a move that hits SE on it. Bulky grounds come to mind, for example.Deck Knight said:
In addition, there are just a general ton of counters to Electivire. Look at mixmence, on the other hand. Can we name a definite counter like we can name 5 or 6 for Electivire? I don't think so.
Besides, the situational electivire isn't so much a concern. This set requires good prediction from experienced players, which assumes the same player won't be fooled into triggering electivire.
Well I'm sitting here trying to think of something that still stump your Salamence but I'm afraid I can't. Bravo, bravo.
I havent bothered to check your evs, I am gonna assume they are the same as mine, which atm I cant really remember..
Crunch is really too situational and unecessary. Cresselia is an easy pokemon to damage, and it doesnt have reliable recovery, you only need to do like 10% or something before Fireblast + Dracometeor will KO it. The 4th move if you dont want roost should be Dragon Claw. This way once you Dracometeor you arent stuck with only Brick Break..
If you want to keep roost, and are awesome like I am, you should run Dragon Rush. It 2hkos bliss, whereas Dragon Claw wont, and it can KO cresselia in conjunction with DracoMeteor if you have like stealth rock or something (Also consider how easy damaging Cresselia is). This set also stops Deck Knight from whining, because all of a sudden Cresselia cant really switch into any of your moves. And also whoever it was that was saying what do you do once Swampert switches in this set solves that problem too.
The one issue with this set is Heatran, but the added versatility against a whole range of decent special def pokemon I think is worth it.. Heatran doesnt actually like taking Dracometeors all that much, and I have never seen one with any form of recovery.
Have a nice day.
Crunch is really too situational and unecessary. Cresselia is an easy pokemon to damage, and it doesnt have reliable recovery, you only need to do like 10% or something before Fireblast + Dracometeor will KO it. The 4th move if you dont want roost should be Dragon Claw. This way once you Dracometeor you arent stuck with only Brick Break..
If you want to keep roost, and are awesome like I am, you should run Dragon Rush. It 2hkos bliss, whereas Dragon Claw wont, and it can KO cresselia in conjunction with DracoMeteor if you have like stealth rock or something (Also consider how easy damaging Cresselia is). This set also stops Deck Knight from whining, because all of a sudden Cresselia cant really switch into any of your moves. And also whoever it was that was saying what do you do once Swampert switches in this set solves that problem too.
The one issue with this set is Heatran, but the added versatility against a whole range of decent special def pokemon I think is worth it.. Heatran doesnt actually like taking Dracometeors all that much, and I have never seen one with any form of recovery.
Have a nice day.
Wow -- Dragon Rush indeed does sound awesome, yet at the same time I'd be terrified of it's really shifty accuracy...
I do think I might run it though -- it just sounds so appealing and badass.
It seems like the main advantages are:
- does equal damage as Brick Break vs Blissey/Cradily (2HKO)
- does practically the same damage as Crunch on Cressy, (150 vs 160 BP)
- does generally more damage against foes than Brick Break/Crunch combo
- very little enjoy switching into Life Orb'd STAB Dragon Rush, whereas Salamence's weak Brick Break/Crunch creates a small window for pokemon to switch in
- leaves room for Roost
then again, there's...
- the fact that you miss, and missing really, really sucks (and in this case missing will often mean you miss out on a KO)
- Heatran and Empoleon force you to switch out
I do think I might run it though -- it just sounds so appealing and badass.
It seems like the main advantages are:
- does equal damage as Brick Break vs Blissey/Cradily (2HKO)
- does practically the same damage as Crunch on Cressy, (150 vs 160 BP)
- does generally more damage against foes than Brick Break/Crunch combo
- very little enjoy switching into Life Orb'd STAB Dragon Rush, whereas Salamence's weak Brick Break/Crunch creates a small window for pokemon to switch in
- leaves room for Roost
then again, there's...
- the fact that you miss, and missing really, really sucks (and in this case missing will often mean you miss out on a KO)
- Heatran and Empoleon force you to switch out
Well, you can't win against everything! High risk high rewards! Dragon Rush it is! We should call this Hipmencelee.
We should all blame that japinese kid. Meteor rain... What were you thinking!?
I thought Draco Meteor was already in the game, and they had a contest for somebody to name the move?
The main thing I don't like about Dragon Rush is it's accuracy. Because to put it simply, not only will you miss out on KO'ing your opponents Pokemon, but most of the time you'll end up being crippled or KOed yourself. Then again, Roost can help solve the suicide problems of this set.
Yeah it was, its like leafstorm. Its just a dragon typed overheat.
And Cress makes a good counter this set.
And Cress makes a good counter this set.
aamto
on whom the three Fates smile
I've been running something similar (with radically different EVs) on shoddy for a bit as part of my Roostin Dragons phase, except I use Earthquake over Brick Break for random coverage. Probably not a good choice. I mainly use it to revenge things like Lucario who think they're faster than me (thinking its a 299er).
Without Crunch of course.
But Aero also mentioned to me on AIM that you can stall out Cresselia with Roost. The details I don't remember but it involves Cresselia's terrible SpAtk and Roosting removing the 4x Ice Beam weakness.
Maybe he can explain it better.
It only works against Cressy without Twave, and is overall not the most amazing idea.
Cressy is indeed one of the best switch ins, but it still takes roughly 80ish-90ish% from a Fire Blast followed by a Draco Meteor, or a Dragon Rush/Crunch followed by a Draco Meteor or vice versa... it only needs to have taken a bit of previous damage for it to go down. And apparently according to Hipno Cressy is really easy to damage. *shrugs*
Also, you don't need to predict that much with this guy -- most of the time you'll just start with Draco Meteor, since that move followed by Brick Break/Crunch/Dragon Rush/Fire Blast will pretty much everything except Blissey, Cresselia, Bronzong, Heatran, and Jirachi, and they can be taken out either with prediction, or damaging them slightly first, seeing as how Draco Meteor followed by X does like 80% to all of these guys anyways... In fact, if you were desperate for the kill, you could just take a status/hit from any of those 5 and finish them off
Cressy is indeed one of the best switch ins, but it still takes roughly 80ish-90ish% from a Fire Blast followed by a Draco Meteor, or a Dragon Rush/Crunch followed by a Draco Meteor or vice versa... it only needs to have taken a bit of previous damage for it to go down. And apparently according to Hipno Cressy is really easy to damage. *shrugs*
Also, you don't need to predict that much with this guy -- most of the time you'll just start with Draco Meteor, since that move followed by Brick Break/Crunch/Dragon Rush/Fire Blast will pretty much everything except Blissey, Cresselia, Bronzong, Heatran, and Jirachi, and they can be taken out either with prediction, or damaging them slightly first, seeing as how Draco Meteor followed by X does like 80% to all of these guys anyways... In fact, if you were desperate for the kill, you could just take a status/hit from any of those 5 and finish them off